thinking of throwing in the towel in Australia

danotroy

irishmover wrote: »

Ouch a loan is a difficult thing to have hanging over you while moving. I think it would be wise to budget for the worst case scenario (job in bar, **** hours and 16 dollars an hour) and go from there.

You australian job hunting loads and applying to plenty of jobs before ya head out right?

It's easier preaching this to people than practising it myself, as to be honest I reckon I'll probably be going mad on my first 2 weeks off aswell but you should try keep it quiet on the nights out for the first month atleast. Until you know you can afford it.

My brother (WHV 1 year) came home after 3 months around 9 years ago because he blew all his money on drink, worked a bit but got the sack for being too lazy or not showing up for work.

yeah i am job hunting loads and there are loads of jobs out there but as i said the experience thing is killing me and i fear that thats the first sign of a recession kicking in. i think we have been lulled into this false sense that australia is a place where we the irish can go fall into a job and be successful.

Newsite

danotroy wrote: »

i think we have been lulled into this false sense that australia is a place where we the irish can go fall into a job and be successful.

I don't think that's the case really...don't think there is anywhere in the world where you can do that! Takes hard work, persistence, being good with people and a small dose of luck methinks..these days I don't reckon there is anywhere where the streets are paved with gold!

danotroy

Newsite wrote: »

I don't think that's the case really...don't think there is anywhere in the world where you can do that! Takes hard work, persistence, being good with people and a small dose of luck methinks..these days I don't reckon there is anywhere where the streets are paved with gold!

yes i agree with you maybe it was just my perception of oz but for as long as ive known people of my age going to oz they have all ended up getting jobs quite easily and getting sponsored etc, even those who possess limited qualifications.

mise_me_fein3

daveyeh wrote: »

i had been considering upping sticks and moving down under too, but i've heard recently from friends over there that the aussies are about to have their own burst housing bubble and inevitable recession. work is drying up all over the place. turned me off moving. that and the drunken aussie moron mentality.

Your friends are talking rubbish about a housing bubble. My uncle has been over here 20 years and says things slow down for him but personally I think that's just his personal situation. I've 3 brothers over here and we're in 4 different places doing well.

If you mean a slowdown on a scale of 10 from 8 to 6 here, I'd have Ireland currently at 1 or 2.

Australia trades more with China than the US and of course its affected by the world economy but there are not many places better places for the future than here. Asia is booming. Ask your friends about the mining boom here and then click on the links I've posted below.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5qSvtxaPgY

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15162390

http://www.theage.com.au/business/bhp-in-global-top-10-earners-20110824-1jacg.html

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-business/rio-tinto-profits-up-260-per-cent-20100805-11jyh.html

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/financial-services/banks-tipped-to-lift-cash-profits-to-24bn/story-fn91wd6x-1226157589778

If people are homesick fair enough but blaming the economy is pure bull.

Theresalwaysone

There is most certainly a housing/property bubble in Australia at the moment. Whether or not it bursts in the next few years is anyones guess but its definitely there.

It will burst though. Just like Ireland and to think otherwise is delusional.

mise_me_fein3

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

There is most certainly a housing/property bubble in Australia at the moment. Whether or not it bursts in the next few years is anyones guess but its definitely there.

It will burst though. Just like Ireland and to think otherwise is delusional.

Please tell me you looked at the you tube link showing the comparison between Australian and Irish house prices.

You can't just blindly use the delusional without knowing the factors at work here. Prices have risen by a huge amount true, but they have been going down a little recently. Interest rates are pretty high here unlike in Ireland during the boom times when they were low which was set up like this in order to stimulate the German economy.

Anyway, why would you care about a housing bubble....are any of you planning on taking out a mortgage here? If you think that the only thing being built here in construction is houses really ARE DELUSIONAL.

Theresalwaysone

I didnt look at the youtube link because I can't in work but I've researched the topic a good bit and while there definitely are differences. There are also worrying similarities.

I never said anything about only houses being built in construction... where did that even come from? This isnt a prerequisite for a housing bubble in anycase.

I dont care about a housing bubble, I'll likely only be here for 2 years. But to deny that there is one happening, albeit slowly, is a bit silly. The property asset class is becoming more and more relied upon, the credit is available (not as cheap as Ireland was admittedly), the culture of property ownership is prevalent, the contemporary Aussie Psyche is becoming more and more geared towards property as a quick earner (see tv shows like 'the block').

I might not be as quickly inflating and bursting as an irish bubble but the warning signs are there.

ellaq

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

I didnt look at the youtube link because I can't in work but I've researched the topic a good bit and while there definitely are differences. There are also worrying similarities.

I never said anything about only houses being built in construction... where did that even come from? This isnt a prerequisite for a housing bubble in anycase.

I dont care about a housing bubble, I'll likely only be here for 2 years. But to deny that there is one happening, albeit slowly, is a bit silly. The property asset class is becoming more and more relied upon, the credit is available (not as cheap as Ireland was admittedly), the culture of property ownership is prevalent, the contemporary Aussie Psyche is becoming more and more geared towards property as a quick earner (see tv shows like 'the block').

I might not be as quickly inflating and bursting as an irish bubble but the warning signs are there.

I don't know what state you are in but I am in WA and your comments are about 4 years out of date. We peaked in 2006/2007 and house prices have been slowly regressing.

There are jobs out there but aligning the worker with the job seems to be difficult for some employers. I think there is a lack of HR skills in small companies. Take my friend for example. Last week he needed 5 casual labourers in a small WA town, he was paying great money. He didn't think to plan for this, he just wanted 5 workers with a few days notice to do this job. Needless to say that he could only get a few backpackers that were willing to do it. Next time it will be the same, the mining game is a very unorganised business, especially in smaller companies. And he will continue to complain about the lack of workers in WA.

A.Partridge

Easiest place to pick up a job is definitely Canberra.

May not be the most exciting location but if you are running low on money and confidence there is lots of choice there to get you re-established.

My son was in the same position as you last year and walked Sydney for 8 weeks without picking up a single job. He went to Canberra at the last minute and was working within a day of arrival there. Never looked back.

Best of luck. Don't give up.

jank

danotroy wrote: »

yeah its all been jobs jobs jobs for so long now its too good to be true. Ive been sending my cv which is pretty good to all the graduate jobs advertised on various job websites but all im getting back from employers is that i do not have enough experience. I have 6 months planning experience and thats their requirement, is this the first sign of a recession?

I think the fact that you have a qualificition that is not in demand, only 6 months work "experience" and are on a WHV is the fact you are having a hard time getting a job. Nothing to do with a recession.

jank

danotroy wrote: »

yeah i am job hunting loads and there are loads of jobs out there but as i said the experience thing is killing me and i fear that thats the first sign of a recession kicking in. i think we have been lulled into this false sense that australia is a place where we the irish can go fall into a job and be successful.

What, you mean you didnt get a job at the airport? They weren't handing them out on every street corner? Did you also believe that house prices always go up?

Always do your own research. The thing with Oz is that you have to go out yourself and find your own place. Talk to people, dont expect it to be handed to you. I cant stress the last point enough. It is not what you know it is WHO you know....

You HAVE to make contacts and keep plugging away to find that job, use one job as a stepping stone to another. No one is going to give it to you, why should they?
Contacts and networking are so important, alot of Irish in OZ find that a surprise but those that do are probably clueless and expect things to be handed out ala the celtic tiger days. Shows how inept alot of young people are IMO.

danotroy

jank wrote: »

What, you mean you didnt get a job at the airport? They weren't handing them out on every street corner? Did you also believe that house prices always go up?

Always do your own research. The thing with Oz is that you have to go out yourself and find your own place. Talk to people, dont expect it to be handed to you. I cant stress the last point enough. It is not what you know it is WHO you know....

You HAVE to make contacts and keep plugging away to find that job, use one job as a stepping stone to another. No one is going to give it to you, why should they?
Contacts and networking are so important, alot of Irish in OZ find that a surprise but those that do are probably clueless and expect things to be handed out ala the celtic tiger days. Shows how inept alot of young people are IMO.

Thanks for the advice and i agree with you that young people are inept. I think you missed the fact that i am not in Australia yet and the fact that i made the same point as you about the irish in oz thinking it will be the same as the celtic tiger days.

my main worry is that i head off to oz end up spending a year there working in bars and cafes not being able to secure work in my chosen field thus wasting a year when i could be at home working in a bar cafe factory. I think my strategy will be to continue with the large recruitment agencies online and when i get to MElbourne find small planning consultants and offer work for free in order to build up a network of friends and hopefully after a few months of this something on the planning front should materialize.

danotroy

jank wrote: »

I think the fact that you have a qualificition that is not in demand, only 6 months work "experience" and are on a WHV is the fact you are having a hard time getting a job. Nothing to do with a recession.

Also my qualification is in demand it is on every critical skills list and there is a distinct lack of planners across Australia as of a lecture hosted by the Australian government whilst i was in college and here part 3 http://www.rtpi.org.uk/item/1028/

jank

Hit a nerve, have I?

danotroy

jank wrote: »

Hit a nerve, have I?

no you havent i just think launching into a little rant about how i shouldnt of expected to get a job at the airport when im still debating as whether to head to australia is a little silly.

mandrake04

danotroy wrote: »

yeah its all been jobs jobs jobs for so long now its too good to be true. Ive been sending my cv which is pretty good to all the graduate jobs advertised on various job websites but all im getting back from employers is that i do not have enough experience. I have 6 months planning experience and thats their requirement, is this the first sign of a recession?

6 months experience is nothing and in Australian companies always like 'Local experience'. Also they might not be impressed with your qualifications or CV rather than your lack if experience.

Also what sort of visa do you have? If it's a WHV then you are only limited to 6 months work that's enough to put employers off in itself.

There is/going be a hugh housing shortage in Australia especially in Sydney, they are probably going need town planners as some stage.

Ireland has 17% (345,000) empty houses/Ghost estates so they are not going to need town planners for a decade or so.

The HIA, which represents the building industry, forecasts NSW will have a housing shortfall of 155,000 if houses continue to be built at the historical average of the past 20 years.
Even if the state picks up its home building rate from the current 40,600 to 48,600 per annum (a high building scenario), it will still have a shortfall of 84,000 houses by 2020, according to HIA modelling.
Under the same medium rate scenario, Western Australia will be 112,000 short of the number of houses it needs by 2020, followed by Victoria (104,200), Queensland (91,800) and South Australia (24,600).
The ACT is building just about enough houses annually, with an undersupply of just 1,400 houses projected by 2020 if building conditions remain unchanged.
Australia’s weakest housing market, Tasmania is the only state market building enough houses currently and is forecast to be in surplus (1,300) by 2020.
In total, the HIA forecasts a shortage of 500,000 homes by 2020 across the nation, should building rates not pick up.

At a local government area level, flood-damaged Brisbane is heading for a housing shortage of 25,000 by 2020 at current building rates, according to HIA.

Other notable municipalities heading for significant housing shortages in nine years’ time include Darwin (6,500), Sydney’s Sutherland Shire (4,700) and Blacktown (4,400) in Sydney’s outer west.

danotroy

mandrake04 wrote: »

6 months experience is nothing and in Australian companies always like 'Local experience'. Also they might not be impressed with your qualifications or CV rather than your lack if experience.

Also what sort of visa do you have? If it's a WHV then you are only limited to 6 months work that's enough to put employers off in itself.

There is/going be a hugh housing shortage in Australia especially in Sydney, they are probably going need town planners as some stage.

Ireland has 17% (345,000) empty houses/Ghost estates so they are not going to need town planners for a decade or so.

I will be on a WHV as that is the only option available to my Budget and i dont think getting a few months experience here in ireland will help my CV any further. The qualifications should be of merit as many australia planners have previously done the course i was on.

Im well aware ireland isn't going to need planners for a long long time. There are lots of planning jobs in australia that seems to be where the work is but as you said on the WHV i am limited to 6 months with an employer so if i arrive in oz and don't secure a job in planning within 6 months i am stuck with the decision of whether to go and do my 3 months on a farm in order to get the extra year or to head home with a wasted 6 months under my belt.

This is my first major life decision!

dave3004

For farming jobs to get yourself a 2nd year visa and save some coin try the below website

http://jobsearch.gov.au/harvesttrail/default.aspx

dave3004

Read the article after posting above.
Been here over a year in Melbourne and let me solve and answer some of your questions truthfully.

1. Pints are not more than 10 dollars.In general they are $8 a pint of whatever. Maybe 9 if your on bud/heineken but most people acquire a taste for one of the local beers. Mine is James Boags.

2. There is a housing bubble in Australia. There are worries it will burst. I dont think it will any time soon though.

3. There are plenty of jobs in Melbourne. I am not sure if there are in regard to your masters but I have many friends here with me, not alot of qualifications and education really and all of us have managed to get sponsored.

4. It is a beautiful place to live, and although the winters aint great, they're better than home. Now its coming into summer and its one of my fav places in the world. Whether you wanna go to the Melbourne Cup in a couple of weeks, enjoy some events at Federation Square, Go on the Great Ocean Road, Go to the 95,000 seater MCG stadium, watch the Aussie Tennis Open in Jan, the summer in Melbourne is buzzing.

I would highly recommend coming over here....Especially any tradies who are in Ireland and out of work.

On an unrelated topic. Darwin is trying to hire construction workers from Ireland as there is a shortage there and obviously a surplus of workers in that industry in Ireland.

Any other questions I will try help.

danotroy

Dave thank you very much for your positivity may i ask what sorts of jobs your friends got sponsored in. i have friends who have gone to melbourne and other parts of oz not knowing their arse from their elbow and they have managed to get sponsored but im not sure what in.

Barrythe chopper

wow this thread took on a life of its own lol. i want to say thanks to everyone for their help, and i am sorry if anyone has been put off or made nervous of comming here because of my thread, its just my experience's and you should at least give it a try. i will be trying to sort sort my stuff out guys cheers and hopefully in time ill end up likeing it here we will see

danotroy

Barrythe chopper wrote: »

wow this thread took on a life of its own lol. i want to say thanks to everyone for their help, and i am sorry if anyone has been put off or made nervous of comming here because of my thread, its just my experience's and you should at least give it a try. i will be trying to sort sort my stuff out guys cheers and hopefully in time ill end up likeing it here we will see

hopefully stuff works out for you barry your not the first and wont be the last to be feeling the way you are!

all the best

Mellor

danotroy wrote: »

Also my qualification is in demand it is on every critical skills list and there is a distinct lack of planners across Australia as of a lecture hosted by the Australian government whilst i was in college and here part 3 http://www.rtpi.org.uk/item/1028/

danotroy wrote: »

Im well aware ireland isn't going to need planners for a long long time. There are lots of planning jobs in australia that seems to be where the work is but as you said on the WHV i am limited to 6 months with an employer so if i arrive in oz and don't secure a job in planning within 6 months i am stuck with the decision of whether to go and do my 3 months on a farm in order to get the extra year or to head home with a wasted 6 months under my belt.

This is my first major life decision!

I think you are looking at this the totally wrong way.
First of all, I'm sure you course is very well regarded, but its a simply fact that you have no experience or study regarding Australian planning law.
For example, do you know what a DA is? Or a CC? Or a PCA? Or a CMP?
(afaik these are terms used in the Irish system, but maybe they are. Either way jsut examples)

Then there is also the issue that working with one oc the councils in Australia is essentially a government job and it might be restricted to non-residents.
On the other hand maybe you want to work with a developer or an Architectural firm.

So you might get a job, or you might not. Maybe you'll end up doing an unskilled job for more money. But what I find the strangest is your attitude that if you don't get experience that the year was wasted. Why do you think this?
If you stay at home, you'll almost certainly not get a related job or any relevant experience. So you can't get any less experience coming to australia. But I really think you need to drop the attitude that its a waste if you don't get a planning job. If you can't change that then I wouldn't bother coming as its not for you.

Getting experience in my area of work was a massive bonus for me in australia, I had no chance of this at home. But had I been doing an unskilled job, I would of still be glad to have been here.

dave3004

Well a couple got a job running a hotel. They left ireland with no exp. whatsoever but both had degrees in unrelated fields. They did however work for 4 months in Port Douglas running a small motel. They got sponsorship through that job.

My other friend got a job in a creche. Shes has no tertiary education but had a year or 2 exp. from home and is now sponsored.

I got a 6 month contract with an investment bank and got made permanent and got sponsored. I have previous exp. in an IB.

My other friend who also has prev exp. in an IB got a job in PWC and got sponsored. He has no accounting background and has never done any auditing or anything. Winged the intereview. Got the job. Got sponsored.

My other friend plays football. hes good, not great but his club have a farmer who will give my friend the farm's ABN number and he is safe for another year to play football for the same team.

The hardest thing is getting your foot in the door. If you dont wanna go home....Work hard for a couple of months and get your sponsorship.

You can only work for an employer for a max of 6 months on your WHV so you have 6 months to impress. I dont sweet F.A for 4 months and then worked hard and started emailing bosses, sending hero emails etc and then with a month left asked could I get sponsored. Easy.

If there's a will there's a way.

If you need a job in Melbourne there is always jobs going at the Melbourne Exhibition Centre. You build stages and marquees etc. You'd be workign there or in Flemington or in the coutryside. Easy work. Not great pay. About 22 dollars an hour.

If you are looking for a decent recruitment agent in the financial industry send me a PM. They are few and far between but I have gotten a few ppl jobs through this guy and he continues to do the best chasing for his clients.

Any other questions just ask.

Oh, and those who are in Melbourne, if you need any help finding your feet let me know if I can help. I've been in that situation many times where you're eating pasta/noodles and drinking goon like it's water and you think you'll never get sorted. it will always work out as long as you have ppl around you who are willing to help.

Mellor

dave3004 wrote: »

My other friend who also has prev exp. in an IB got a job in PWC and got sponsored. He has no accounting background and has never done any auditing or anything. Winged the intereview. Got the job. Got sponsored.

How did he he get sponsorship through immigration without experience or a qualification.. The company hiring him is easy, immigration require prove tat you meet the requirements of the role.

My other friend plays football. hes good, not great but his club have a farmer who will give my friend the farm's ABN number and he is safe for another year to play football for the same team.

He might get a 2ndWHV, but he isn't "safe"

Barrythe chopper

JustAThought wrote: »

Bad start but don't give up. There's little or nothing here so keep at it ; it can bea lonely place ( been there done that) but all you need is a bit of luck and to bump into a like minded few folk and it'll all be brighter.
Hate to hear of folk being ripped off; is ur an hours thing or was it mire complicated( meaning is it fixable:(. If you re owed money)
Register with a few agencies and put in calls every day; if they like the sound of you and you re upbeat you might wellget sthing soon. I very nearlychanged my flight and came home but I'm really glad I didn't; my luck changed and I ended up enjoying it and having a few adventures & meeting some great folk. It's miserable here too; keep at it; and register make those calls or if you're in the sticks emails to lots of agencies every day; they needto know your name & thatyou re looking hard before they give you the job! It'll be worth it!!!
Hasn't the SW changed too so that if you go away to work there's a long gap between when you can get money again

Keep at it ; it ll be worth it!!!! And try and keep the form up : )

thanks dude yeah it was a bit more comlipicated was hired for fulltime work then the following week it went to partime then 2 days then i was let go grrrrrr but yeah ive my head down now and well see what happens thanks.

dave3004

Mellor wrote: »

How did he he get sponsorship through immigration without experience or a qualification.. The company hiring him is easy, immigration require prove tat you meet the requirements of the role.


He might get a 2ndWHV, but he isn't "safe"

He has an IB background and a degree but nothing in accounting.

Ppl always believe all these formal issues surrounding immigration....If you dont pay your tram fiens you cant get sponsorship, that it will come back to you ..... if you outstay your visa your banned from all commonwealth countries forever.....All waffle.

Mod<snip> Please don't encourage illegal activity, warning this time

Mellor

dave3004 wrote: »

He has an IB background and a degree but nothing in accounting.

Ppl always believe all these formal issues surrounding immigration....If you dont pay your tram fiens you cant get sponsorship, that it will come back to you ..... if you outstay your visa your banned from all commonwealth countries forever.....All waffle.

<snip>.

I am aware that fines don't prevent you getting sponsorship. I don't think anyone believes that.
Nor does overstaying one visa mean you are banned. In fact you can over stay and still apply for sponsorship. So I don't have a clue why you brought that up.

A guy with a banking degree getting a job with PWC is hardly completely unrelated. So if he is simply sponsored under a different job description, then there's nothing out of the ordinary there. You made out like he pulled off some elaborate con.

daveyeh

mise_me_fein3 wrote: »

Please tell me you looked at the you tube link showing the comparison between Australian and Irish house prices.

You can't just blindly use the delusional without knowing the factors at work here. Prices have risen by a huge amount true, but they have been going down a little recently. Interest rates are pretty high here unlike in Ireland during the boom times when they were low which was set up like this in order to stimulate the German economy.

Anyway, why would you care about a housing bubble....are any of you planning on taking out a mortgage here? If you think that the only thing being built here in construction is houses really ARE DELUSIONAL.

Dear oh dear. This sounds just like the denial we used to hear in ireland a few years ago, "this bubble is different, it won't happen here, if you don't believe this you should hang yourself, etc, etc, etc.

I'm guessing you've bought property recently.

kdevitt

daveyeh wrote: »

Dear oh dear. This sounds just like the denial we used to hear in ireland a few years ago, "this bubble is different, it won't happen here, if you don't believe this you should hang yourself, etc, etc, etc.

I'm guessing you've bought property recently.

It is quite different to be fair. Arrears are definitely on the rise (several of the deals I manage are residential mortgage backed securitisations) - especially low doc ones. However such a high percentage of the Australian issued mortgages are covered by lenders mortgage insurance that the banks don't have anywhere near the same exposure as the Irish banks did.

Not much comfort if you end up losing your house I guess, but its not another Irish crash waiting to happen.

In relation to the OP - Australia is not for everyone. I'm enjoying it but wouldn't personally be hanging around long if I was out of work. My cousins came out here years back (they're twins) - one hated it and left after 2 months, the other did their full year and would have stayed.