In calf heifers

lilbelter

Hi,

I have 30 in-calf heifers(various breeds) in-calf to an easy calving limousin bull. Thay are due to start calving down at the end of february. Their average age at the moment is about 22 months, and wieght about 520kg. Was just wondering what type of a feeding schedule would be advisable, (ration amount and type, if any?) as this is the first time i've done this? I plan to house them early-mid november. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

reilig

lilbelter wrote: »

Hi,

I have 30 in-calf heifers(various breeds) in-calf to an easy calving limousin bull. Thay are due to start calving down at the end of february. Their average age at the moment is about 22 months, and wieght about 520kg. Was just wondering what type of a feeding schedule would be advisable, (ration amount and type, if any?) as this is the first time i've done this? I plan to house them early-mid november. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Everyone's feeding schedule will be different so you'll probably get a varied response and then you can choose what you think is best.

For me, I believe that heifers should be fed before they go in calf. So I never feed meal to an incalf heifer. Once the heifer is in calf, then I will keep her on a maintenance diet for first 6 months of her pregnancy. This means that she will get ordinary grass while outside and medium quality silage when inside.

With the type of heifers that I keep, I often find that if the heifer gets too much feeding, then she is likely to put it into the calf rather thna on her back and you can often experience difficult calving.

For the 3 months prior to calving, I try to move the cow onto less grass (if outside) or onto drier silage (if inside like most of mine are when they calve). When inside, I will restrict the amount of silage that is pushed up to their heads every day. A pregnant cow or heifer never knows when to stop eating. I'll push up silage twice per day, and when they have that ate, I let them be hungry. I make a bale of dry wilted silage do 6 incalf heifers in a pen for between 4 and 5 days.

Needless to say, once they calve, i feed them good quality silage ad lib (Unless a heifer has too much milk, but that is rare)

That's how I do it anyway and it works for me. Some will feed hay for 6 weeks before calving, but I don't have a lot of hay most years. Its trial and error and you have to know your stock. But as I said, everyone has their own methods.

just do it

Agree with reilig. That's as good a feeding regime as you'll get.

The last thing you want is them being too fat at calving. If they're over 500kg at this stage they're a grand size. They've 5 more months of growth. Restricting the diet, particularly in the last 6-8 weeks should ensure the calves don't come too big.

pakalasa

Feed about 100g per head, per day too of pre-calving minerals. Just sprinkle them on the silage every day. It will help the cow/heifer to pass the 'cleaning' and also keep the calves hardy.
Agree with the above, with feed, less is better. guaranteed, more will die from overfeeding than hunger.
Allow about 6 weeks too for the heifers to slip back in calving date. A lot of people don't allow for this.

reilig

pakalasa wrote: »

Feed about 100g per head, per day too of pre-calving minerals. Just sprinkle them on the silage every day. It will help the cow/heifer to pass the 'cleaning' and also keep the calves hardy.

+1

Bizzum

Same boat as all above. When restricting feeding particularly, precalving mineral is vital.
Hay is good in the run up to calving, some people feed straw if the heifers are carrying condition, and some poeple are great believers in feeding oats pre calving!

leg wax

follow all the above and you cant go wrong.

mallethead

Nice bit of hay with a shake of rolled oats 6 weeks to 2 months before they calve also pre calving mineral licks are very important
Workrd well fro limousin X bb heihers

Highland

Think most research shows that you can't reduce calf size by underfeeding. on the other hand a fat heifer will have problems. I would go along with advice re hay and oats (for energy/spark) but would add 0.5 - 1kg soya to give adequate protein for colosturm production, particularly if feeding hay as it is very low in protein, as are oats.

Bizzum

Highland wrote: »

Think most research shows that you can't reduce calf size by underfeeding. on the other hand a fat heifer will have problems. I would go along with advice re hay and oats (for energy/spark) but would add 0.5 - 1kg soya to give adequate protein for colosturm production, particularly if feeding hay as it is very low in protein, as are oats.

You are quite right about much of the research, however you can keep flesh off the calf in utero by restricting feeding, and the cow of course is in a fitter condition to calf.
Good point Re: Colostrum. It's something I have done, when the heifer is near her calving date.

mallethead

soya is great for bringing them on in the milk ,
I would feed nice hay as if the heifer gets too fleshy the calf will not come out as sh can not open enough ,similar to a cow with too much muscle

haybob

Bizzum wrote: »

Same boat as all above. When restricting feeding particularly, precalving mineral is vital.
Hay is good in the run up to calving, some people feed straw if the heifers are carrying condition, and some poeple are great believers in feeding oats pre calving!

I'd be one of the oat and hay believers it never failed me yet and if they havent enough milk a few dairy nuts will soon sort that

lilbelter

Thanks a million for all the advice lads, much appreciated!

Joe the Plumber

I agree with all the advice given above ....

But some Teagasc advisors will tell you to put cow/heifer on nuts 2/3weeks from calving.

reasons,

• Gives animal strength for calving process
• Builds up milk for calf
• Stronger calf, will get up and suck easier

By doing it 2/3 weeks out after half starving the animal for the previous couple of months, She wont have time to gain weight that fast.

Thoughts.......

reilig

Joe the Plumber wrote: »

I agree with all the advice given above ....

But some Teagasc advisors will tell you to put cow/heifer on nuts 2/3weeks from calving.

reasons,

• Gives animal strength for calving process
• Builds up milk for calf
• Stronger calf, will get up and suck easier

By doing it 2/3 weeks out after half starving the animal for the previous couple of months, She wont have time to gain weight that fast.

Thoughts.......

I wouldn't feed nuts at this time. I also wouldn't take advice on cattle from any Teagasc Advisor - they have proven time and time again across the board that nobody in the organisation knows a thing about suckler farming. Just look at Derrypatrick. Do the opposite of what Teagasc do and 99% of the time you'll be right cause 99% of the time Teagasc are wrong when it comes to suckler farming. The teagasc suckler "expert" in my area doesn't even have his own farm.

I don't think anyone advocated "half starving" any heifer. Restricted feeding does not mean that the animal will lose condition. It means that she will maintain the condition that she had before she went in calf.

The biggest problem that I would have with feeding nuts 3 weeks before calving is that the last 3 weeks before birth is the time that the calf grows the most. Extra feeding could see the calf grow too big or the heifer put too much fat on her back - both leading to difficult calving.

Feed the heifer before she goes in calf and after she has the calf, that would be my policy and it works for me.

Muckit

reilig wrote: »

Feed the heifer before she goes in calf and after she has the calf, that would be my policy and it works for me.

In or around the same time, give or take a few weeks Good advice though. Makes sense.

mallethead

I wouldn't feed a heifer nuts 2-3 weeks before she calves i think you would be looking for trouble
Keep her strong not over fed i think there is a big difference
Make sure she has all the mineral supplements she needs about a month -3 weeks before she calves , this helps with colostrumn also they are more likely to go back in calf when you want them to

pakalasa

Another thing some guys do too, is lock them into long narrow paddocks. It forces them to walk a lot, to get water etc and so get a lot of exercise.

fatoftheland

theat heifers should be fine with no concentrates for the moment. the worst time to feed heifers/cows beef or dairy concentrates is month seven and eight of pregnancy as most of the nutrition goes to the calves. in the last four weeks before calving you cannot influence the calf size so feeding the heifers at this stage is a good idea and it prevents sub clinical milk fever.

Joe the Plumber

fatoftheland wrote: »

theat heifers should be fine with no concentrates for the moment. the worst time to feed heifers/cows beef or dairy concentrates is month seven and eight of pregnancy as most of the nutrition goes to the calves. in the last four weeks before calving you cannot influence the calf size so feeding the heifers at this stage is a good idea and it prevents sub clinical milk fever.

Interesting comments, now we have a real debate on our hands..:D

I'm with you fatoftheland on this one.

49801

pakalasa wrote: »

Another thing some guys do too, is lock them into long narrow paddocks. It forces them to walk a lot, to get water etc and so get a lot of exercise.

so lock them onto the lane ways is the idea.
:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Tora Bora

pakalasa wrote: »

Another thing some guys do too, is lock them into long narrow paddocks. It forces them to walk a lot, to get water etc and so get a lot of exercise.

This thing works better, when the quare wan gets off it:)

Bizzum

Joe the Plumber wrote: »

I agree with all the advice given above .... But some Teagasc advisors will tell you to put cow/heifer on nuts 2/3weeks from calving.

reilig wrote: »

The biggest problem that I would have with feeding nuts 3 weeks before calving is that the last 3 weeks before birth is the time that the calf grows the most.

So the camp appears split. I'm firmly in Reiligs corner here.

Take a cow calving at 284 days and compare her comrade who carries (to the same bull) to say 294 days. All things being equal, I think it's reasonable to state that the latter cow will generally have a bigger calf.

Joe the Plumber wrote: »

Interesting comments, now we have a real debate on our hands..:D

Indeed we have!

blue5000

fatoftheland wrote: »

theat heifers should be fine with no concentrates for the moment. the worst time to feed heifers/cows beef or dairy concentrates is month seven and eight of pregnancy as most of the nutrition goes to the calves. in the last four weeks before calving you cannot influence the calf size so feeding the heifers at this stage is a good idea and it prevents sub clinical milk fever.

Have to disagree with you there, calf grows a lot in the last 6 wks of pregnancy, this is when the meal should be cut out.

pakalasa

49801 wrote: »

so lock them onto the lane ways is the idea.
:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Read this in the Journal a while back. It was that large farmer in Westmeath, Glasson I think. He had a few opendays. Mc Gee - if I remember right. Well, he seemed to know what he was doing, anyway.

reilig

blue5000 wrote: »

Have to disagree with you there, calf grows a lot in the last 6 wks of pregnancy, this is when the meal should be cut out.

+1 The calf can almost double in size over the last 6 weeks of the pregnancy. Thankfully we've had very few premature calves to prove this

Bizzum

fatoftheland wrote: »

in the last four weeks before calving you cannot influence the calf size so feeding the heifers at this stage is a good idea and it prevents sub clinical milk fever.

Sub clinical milk fever is not something I would commonly assoicate with suckler heifers?
Anyone on here have a problem with it in sucklers?

pakalasa

Bizzum wrote: »

Sub clinical milk fever is not something I would commonly assoicate with suckler heifers?
Anyone on here have a problem with it in sucklers?

Ya, you're right. It's more common in Dairy Cows AFAIK.

leg wax

Bizzum wrote: »

Sub clinical milk fever is not something I would commonly assoicate with suckler heifers?
Anyone on here have a problem with it in sucklers?

well this is the first year that i had milk fever in cows, when i brought them in to put them on hay and straw,after 3 days on the diet 3 cows went down with milk fever one cow stayed down for 6 days, the funny thing none of the cows calved for 5-6 weeks later.

Joe the Plumber

I dont think writing off the advice of Teagasc totally is correct.

Fair enough their not always right, but Its proven that the calf does not grow rapidly in the last 2/3 weeks.

That is the crux of the debate..

Can anyone show proof to dismiss this?

If your always feeding straw and hay/silage for the last couple of months you dont know any different!!.....:pac:......

fatoftheland

in late pregnancy a heifer requires 1.3 to 1.5 times maintenance energy level.
65 ME/day is maintenance which is 6.0 kg dry matter grass at this time of year
on silage this would be 7.5 kg Dm or roughly 32kg fresh wt so another 30 ish ME needed from concentrate unless you have excellent silage.

pakalasa

fatoftheland wrote: »

in late pregnancy a heifer requires 1.3 to 1.5 times maintenance energy level.
65 ME/day is maintenance which is 6.0 kg dry matter grass at this time of year
on silage this would be 7.5 kg Dm or roughly 32kg fresh wt so another 30 ish ME needed from concentrate unless you have excellent silage.

Is just heifers, or cows too?

just do it

pakalasa wrote: »

Is just heifers, or cows too?

Good point, probably not cows as they're fully grown. All depends on their BCS though, although that should be corrected well in advance of the last few weeks before calving.

49801

so what effect does feeding hay only have. less put into calf or less fat put down in birth channel.
be interesting to know alright but at the end of the day it is proven to ease calving on farms that practice it.
wish we had the hay to do it with.