Opinions please

EnglishLit

Hi everyone,
I expect to use this forum to road-test some ideas from novels & books I work with before publication. I have my own opinion; I want yours too. Mods, I hope this is ok?

I don't expect all my posts to have perfect English grammar or spelling, I reserve that for my editing! When I write personally, I write as I feel.

So, I have what initially comes across as a gritty crime thriller, centred around the criminal characters.

However, in the text, there is a death scene of a character (not a criminal) , where the reader experiences the death with the character. It is very well written and not at all cringy; to those who believe in religion it could be quite moving. But what would you think if you expected a gritty crime drama, only to find yourself reading a scene where you experience the death with the character (it is written in the third person however). Note that the death scene does a good job of avoiding any particular religious beliefs, so, let's call it the 'generic' idea of death. (light, relatives coming to take her, feelings of peace etc.)

Also there is a very serious and supernatural type prediction made by someone. (I don't want to say more.)

Personally, I feel that the author has mixed too much supernatural in and it detracts from the reader's expectation.

All the scenes described are relating to one character particularly, who is not a criminal.

How would you react to this in a book you picked up as a crime thriller?

Hayte

What exactly is your job?

I'm not sure how we can give you anything useful with the information you have provided, all of which is very vague and lacking context. Is the death significant and in what way? How can the reader "experience" a death if it is written about in third person? By definition, third person view is that of an uninvolved spectator outside the story but looking in.

You say the death scene is "generic" and from your vague description of pillars of light and relatives appearing it sounds...hammy. Nevertheless if there is are supernatural motifs in the novel, then it could make sense. Without any context it is difficult to tell how it all fits together.

I don't really care about how genre fiction "fits" into a genre because its not a checklist of tropes and I can't for the life of me understand why a person would read just to have their expectations confirmed. Maybe thats just me though.

EnglishLit

Thanks for the reply Hayte.

I'm being deliberately vague, as I don't want to give too much of the story away.

To answer your questions:
The reader gets swept up in the emotions of the protagonist, that's why it's as if they 'experience' the death with the character. The style of writing is excellent at drawing the reader in, and making them see through the eyes of the character. That's all I'll say for now, and let's not get too hung up on it, it's not the point of my question, just a piece of supporting info.

You're right insofar as my description makes the death sound hammy, but it is not; I can't stand cringy writing and was relieved to see how she circumvented this problem completely.

But the point is not that a reader picks up a novel to fulfil their expectation but that readers choose to buy novels based on the genre they are familiar with and love. If this were not true, there would be no need to categorise them into genres at all, and divide them up this way in bookshops. Again, let's leave this argument aside for now; it's not the main point to my post.

My point is, mixing in the elements of the supernatural might leave a reader feeling disappointed or irritated when their preconditioning to gritty crime novels makes them expect a certain formula and certain topics to be avoided, e.g. you don't expect a fantasy vampire to appear in a book about gangland crime in the east end of London.

There are no vampires in the book, that was just an example. What there is, is religious oriented narrative that the reader may not expect. And that's what I've come here to ask; if it was you reading it, how would you feel about this?

Hayte

I personally wouldn't have a problem with it but I tend not to care about genre fiction adhering strongly to genre tropes. If anything, I would get tired of reading what could be regarded as paint by numbers fiction. If you think it works then why not let it fly? Do you think the book would suffer if the supernatural element of the fiction were removed? Has the writer given their input and does s/he object to its removal?

Toby Take a Bow

I'd agree with Hayte above. If it's well written, it doesn't matter whether it's genre or if it's a scene which you may expect an adverse reaction.

If it's badly written, however, it's those scenes that will probably be the final straw that will make you put down the book.

There is a creative writing forum somewhere here, not sure if that'd suit your questions better.

Edit: I'd also wonder about the ethics of discussing someone's work on a public forum without their knowledge.

spanx

What is your job OP? What are you being paid to do?
Did you write the book you're asking about?

EnglishLit

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

I'd agree with Hayte above. If it's well written, it doesn't matter whether it's genre or if it's a scene which you may expect an adverse reaction.

If it's badly written, however, it's those scenes that will probably be the final straw that will make you put down the book.

There is a creative writing forum somewhere here, not sure if that'd suit your questions better.

Edit: I'd also wonder about the ethics of discussing someone's work on a public forum without their knowledge.

The author is aware, so don't worry. (Did my vagueness make you think otherwise? It's to protect their work that's all.)

And no it's not my work, I work with authors.

And thank you for replying.

r3nu4l

EnglishLit wrote: »

My point is, mixing in the elements of the supernatural might leave a reader feeling disappointed or irritated when their preconditioning to gritty crime novels makes them expect a certain formula and certain topics to be avoided, e.g. you don't expect a fantasy vampire to appear in a book about gangland crime in the east end of London.

Erm, ever heard of John Connolly and his Charlie Parker series, or his standalone Bad Men? I suspect your author wishes to be the next John Connolly but basing his characters in London as opposed to the USA.

There's a thread on John Connolly in this forum, might be worth reading to get some idea of how people feel about it.

Some love it, others hate it, same with most genres. Hell I know people who love Ian Rankin's Rebus novels but hate both Mark Billingham's DI Thorne novels and Peter Robinson's DI Banks Novels.

As the Americans would have it...go figure!

This novel sounds interesting imo. I wouldn't mind reading it.