8yr old in my bed?

Fittle

dee09 wrote: »

I'd say that you should try and get him out of the bed for both yourself and the child.

My lad is almost 10 and sometimes sleeps in my bed (Im single), depending on the day we've had - for instance, if he's lost a match and is feeling pretty crap, he'll jump into my bed at bedtime and I'll know it's because he just wants a cozy nights sleep.
It's been said to me that 'you're doing him no good' and 'it's best for you and him, that he sleeps in his own bed' by the odd person who I might mention to that he's slept in my bed that night. And I often wonder how it would do me good, to know he was fed up and alone in his own room, when he could actually be snuggling into the person who loves him most in the world? Or how indeed, it could be doing him good, to sleep alone, when his mam is in the room next door and could comfort him if he's feeling crap on a particular night?

Like what's wrong with sleeping with your mam when you're older?

username123

Fittle wrote: »

Like what's wrong with sleeping with your mam when you're older?

Does it not become inappropriate for opposite sex parents/children to sleep together as the child gets older?

What would you think about a father sleeping in the same bed as his 10 year old daughter? And if you dont think thats ok - why would it be less inappropriate for it to be a mam and a son?

Fittle

username123 wrote: »

Does it not become inappropriate for opposite sex parents/children to sleep together as the child gets older?

What would you think about a father sleeping in the same bed as his 10 year old daughter? And if you dont think thats ok - why would it be less inappropriate for it to be a mam and a son?

I think there is a difference in that scenario and the OPs situation, for obvious reasons.

Sleeping with your older child isn't about setting sexual boundaries as far as I'm concerned.

Ayla

username123 wrote: »

Does it not become inappropriate for opposite sex parents/children to sleep together as the child gets older?

What would you think about a father sleeping in the same bed as his 10 year old daughter? And if you dont think thats ok - why would it be less inappropriate for it to be a mam and a son?

No, I don't think it's inappropriate at all. Thinking so puts some sort of innuendo or "dirtyness" to what is - most likely - a completely innocent and loving cuddle between a parent and their child. There is a massive difference between a parent suddenly taking an interest in sleeping with their child once they reach a certain age, versus a child who's voluntarily taking the initiative to sleep with the person who loves & can comfort them more than anyone else.

Again, just think of all the millions of people in the world who co-sleep (out of neccessity or desire)...are they acting "inappropriately," or are they just fulfilling a basic need that the family unit has?


Also, I think we all need to realize that we don't know for certain if the OP is a female...we've all (including myself) assumed so, but my thoughts throughout this thread would be exactly the same even if the OP is male.

CrazyRabbit

OP, have you tried asking your son what he thinks of it? Find out what he gets out of it, why he prefers your bed over his own etc.

anthonymax

OP if it was me I wouldn't worry in the slightest. I've an eight year old boy too who would sleep in my bed every night if he got the chance. He sleeps in his own room most nights and I let him sleep with me on Friday nights, I love having him in beside me. The only reason I kind of pushed him into sleeping on his own was entirely selfish, I'm a really light sleeper and he likes to throw himself round the bed in his sleep!

In saying that, he didn't put up as much of a fight as your lad seems to be doing. I don't have any answers for you there, but I would relax about the whole situation, he will grow out of it in his own time I'm sure. If I ask my twelve year old (boy) if he wants to sleep in with me, (because I feel guilty sometimes that he might think it's favouritism of some kind!) he looks at me with a look of horror on his face!

I say enjoy it while it lasts, he'll be all grown up in a flash, and you'll be longing for the days he used to cuddle up beside you!

di11on

Hi OP.

I sympathise with the situation you find yourself in. I think it's pretty clear for many reasons that this really isn't a long term runner. It's also clear that this is going to be difficult to reverse but it really is in both your and your child's best interest. That's the first thing. To really be reassured that it is in your child's and your best interests that your 8 year old boy does not continue to sleep (the whole night, regularly) in the bed with you.

Recounting the reasons for this:

- Facilitating a healthy adult sex life for you going forwards
- You need good quality sleep to be a functional individual
- Your son needs good quality sleep to be a functional individual
- Building a sense of independence and security for your child
- Allowing your child to explore his own sexuality as adolescence approaches

There are probably many more, but I don't think there's any denying that this is not a sustainable situation.

Children have fears, rational and irrational. But our job as parents is to do ourselves out of a job as parents. We need to equip our kids to deal with these fears themselves. Fears are ok. everyone has them... but our children need to learn how to deal with them themselves. We do them no service continually extracting them from problems that they need to learn how to cope with themselves.

This said, we all need our children to know that they're not alone when they have nightmares etc and that they can always come in when it is really warranted. The problem here is regularly sleeping the whole night with a parent or parents.

We had issues with our 4 year old regularly coming in, in the middle of the night. We instituted a card system which we'd read about in our research on the subject. It worked quite well. They get a card that allows them to come in once per night. The theory is that they will hold on to it until they really need to use it... and hopefully this will eventually mean they'l worth through whatever fear or insecurity they have and fall back asleep. While, if they are really terrified, they can use it and come in.

Hopefully this has been of some help. Let us know how you get on OP!

Fittle

I'm really not sold on it being in 'the childs best interests' that they sleep in their own bed at 8years of age, but if someone can point me in the direction of some study/research done that proves definitively that it is doing a child some long term damage, please let me see it!

In fact, I slept with my mother until I was about 11 on and off, and I think I turned out ok (I'm female though)...large Irish family, small house, think I was the contraception;)

username123

Fittle wrote: »

I'm really not sold on it being in 'the childs best interests' that they sleep in their own bed at 8years of age

Is it not teaching them self reliance? Not to be dependant on mam 24/7. Surely thats a good thing?

Fittle wrote: »

In fact, I slept with my mother until I was about 11 on and off, and I think I turned out ok (I'm female though)...large Irish family, small house, think I was the contraception;)

Wonder what my grandparents excuse was, 2 bed house, 17 children - they must have been sneaking off to the kitchen or something!!!

Ayla

sleeplessnights wrote: »

To answer the last question - yes, in the broad light of day i have asked him why he wants to sleep in his mammys bed when he knows he is too old - his reply is that he just loves my cuddles and gets lonely in his own bed.
There are bunk beds in his brothers room - hes on the top - and he hates it as he says he is too close to the ceiling.

The truth is i love having him in my bed and i aree that having him there is fulfillin a subconsious need i have in me. But i am concerned that i am doing him some harm, emotionally. And thats why i posted here.

OP - your replies didn't show up here (that I could see) until this evening, so apologies I didn't refer directly to them in my previous responses.

Point 1) Of course he likes your cuddles. You are his parent & as such can provide him with a comfort he can't get anywhere else at this age. Adults (well, most anyway) like sleeping with another adult for the same reason. It is that impossible to perceive why a vulnerable 8-yr old child would want the same human contact at night? Why is it ok for adults to have this comfort but not a child?

Point 2) If he doesn't like the top bunk, I presume you've already tried switching him to the bottom? I don't like top bunks either - it gets almost claustrophobic that close to the ceiling - so maybe that's feeding into his resistance to going to his own bed.

Point 3) As far as the differences b/w your sons, that is 100% normal. My two girls couldn't be more different, and they were that way from birth. Just hard wired differently I suppose. It's hard as a parent to not always claim credit for a "good" kid or feel guilt over a "bad" kid, but I feel that you just have to accept kids for exactly what they are. Your second son is naturally more independent & social...that's great, that's him. Your firstborn isn't like that...it infers nothing about the way you've raised him or the fact that he's sleeping in your bed. In fact, I'm presume the opposite - he's in your bed b/c he's naturally more reserved & wants more company/comfort.

I know you're concerned about him long-term from this, but if it were me, I'd let it go. He will very likely develop into a strong and confident man, and he will trust you because you didn't break his trust with this issue. Again, no stats on this, but a good deal of personal experience through friends & their children.

If you are both sleeping well, and it is (on whatever level) benefitting you both, then let it be. Enjoy it while it lasts, b/c the day will come when it will end and you'll miss it then.

Ayla

username123 wrote: »

Is it not teaching them self reliance? Not to be dependant on mam 24/7. Surely thats a good thing?

The child is not with his mom 24/7. Assuming he's at the traditional school & she works a full-time job (which may or may not be the case here) he only sees her a few hours of any given weekday, and those hours are frequently stressful b/w homework/activities/dinner/etc.

Keeping in mind the child is only 8, an awful lot happens in that time away from mom. He has to be self-reliant throughout that entire time, and maybe he really needs that time together with her to recharge his focus/energy/confidence.

Also, I think there is a big difference in genuine self-reliance versus just getting by. Think: if an 8-yr old child's stressed, but he knows he can't go to mom b/c she won't accept his needs, do you think he can rationalise "well, guess I've just got to pull myself together & overcome this challenge," or is it possible that he instead thinks "well, I just hope to fall asleep fast." Then he lies in bed, scared, demoralised & feeling lonely until his body finally gives in.

Yeah, I can see an 8-yr old pulling himself together too :rolleyes:

Ayla

The best way to comment on this point is just point-by-point:

di11on wrote: »

Recounting the reasons for this:

- Facilitating a healthy adult sex life for you going forwards: who says the OP wants one right now esp if s/he's going through a tough time?
- You need good quality sleep to be a functional individual: who has said the OP doesn't get it now? Adults sleep together all the time & get a good night's sleep
- Your son needs good quality sleep to be a functional individual: who has said the child doesn't get it now? Many children sleep better when they're in close contact with another person.
- Building a sense of independence and security for your child: I personally think this is nuts...forcing a kid into a place where they're unhappy & feel unsecure is not going to teach them any lessons.
- Allowing your child to explore his own sexuality as adolescence approaches:
Geez, can we cross that bridge when we come to it? The child is 8.

Children have fears, rational and irrational. But our job as parents is to do ourselves out of a job as parents. We need to equip our kids to deal with these fears themselves. Fears are ok. everyone has them... but our children need to learn how to deal with them themselves. We do them no service continually extracting them from problems that they need to learn how to cope with themselves.

I missed the point where the OP said her son was in her bed b/c he was harbouring fears? I gathered from what I read it was more a "creature comfort" situation more than avoiding the boogeyman.

username123

Ayla wrote: »

Think: if an 8-yr old child's stressed, but he knows he can't go to mom b/c she won't accept his needs, do you think he can rationalise "well, guess I've just got to pull myself together & overcome this challenge," or is it possible that he instead thinks "well, I just hope to fall asleep fast." Then he lies in bed, scared, demoralised & feeling lonely until his body finally gives in.

OR - he realises after a night that its actually fine and its not something to be getting upset over.

OR - he doesnt intellectually mull it over at all, but just knows that if he cries enough about it his mother will give in.

Here is a question for the people who think its ok. Would you be ok with your childs friends, or adults in your life such as relations, friends, GP etc.. knowing that your child sleeps with his mother habitually - Im not talking about the scenario that Fittle outlined when her child might have a bad day and sleeps in with his mother once in a while - Im talking about it being the normal bedtime routine, that a child of 8 or 9 sleeps with his mother every night.

Would you be happy for your child to casually drop it in conversation in front of his own friends or adults in your life?

Because when I think about this I think that, with the childs friends, if they knew they would tease or bully the child in question.

And I think a lot of adults would question it also.

Posters on this thread who has talked about it happening in their own home has either outlined fears that they have themselves that its not the right thing to be doing, or that other people have said 'its best for you and the child not to' or 'youre doing him no good'.

So that makes me wonder - why is there so much of an instinctive reaction - even from the mothers themselves who allow it - that its not right?

I dont know if its right or wrong, I 'feel' that its not quite right, and I have already outlined the reasons why. I can point more at why I think its not right, than why I think it is right - but Id be hard pressed to say its definitely not right - and equally Id be hard pressed to agree with the reasons presented here why it is right.

OP - youre post didnt show for a while but its interesting that you say

The truth is i love having him in my bed and i aree that having him there is fulfillin a subconsious need i have in me. But i am concerned that i am doing him some harm, emotionally.

What I would worry about from that perspective is that allowing this knowing that its fulfilling a subconscious need in you, could be putting your child in an awkward spot whereby the roles are somehow reversing and he has to 'mind' his mam. That couldnt be healthy. Inappropriate over dependance on another person is not good. Id be afraid that generating some type of unhealthy co-dependancy by doing that.

But hey - I could be totally off the wall and it could be the best thing all round. It seems there are some quite defensive positions on it - which surprises me, when I originally read the opening post I automatically thought 'thats not good' and was taken aback that other people thought it was ok - which just goes to show how ingrained some ideas are, that I never even considered that anyone would think it was ok. Takes all sorts.

Hope you and your young man come to a peaceful resolution that keeps everyone happy.

LegacyUser

OP here, my posts didnt show up until today - and I thought I wrote another long post, but it hasn't appeared. thank u all so much for the comprehensive replies. To answer a few of your queries - again, I dont know how to do the quoting thing my apologies.

I used the name 'sleeplessnights' not because neither of us have them - I meant it more as me having them due to worrying about this situation - we both sleep very well in fact!
I do work full time and you are right ayla, we only spend a short period together during the week - he is quite independent of me and always has been in many ways. He has many sleepovers with his friends, and never bats an eyelid.
Yes, I have tried putting him on the bottom bunk, and I've also taken the bunks apart - but still, after about a week of him shouting down the stairs to ask to get into my bed, I give in and we are back to square one.

I disagree with you username, that my friends would think it was unusual - in fact, most of them say that I should embrace it while he still wants me around, as the time is fast approaching when he won't.

Currently, I have no interest in a sex life - theres plenty of time for that and I feel that another little while with him in my bed, will do me no harm whatsoever.

There is no role reversal - I am very clearly the parent and he is very clearly the child so while I said that on a subconscious level, having him in my bed is fulfilling a need in me, that role hasn't been reversed, and it won't be.

Ayla

username123 wrote: »

OR - he realises after a night that its actually fine and its not something to be getting upset over.

That's not the case in the OP's point, as s/he's mentioned the nights alone in bed are horrible for nights in a row.

OR - he doesnt intellectually mull it over at all, but just knows that if he cries enough about it his mother will give in.

Of course, this is a possibility, but again I'd question why the child would even think of it to begin with.

Here is a question for the people who think its ok. Would you be ok with your childs friends, or adults in your life such as relations, friends, GP etc.. knowing that your child sleeps with his mother habitually. Would you be happy for your child to casually drop it in conversation in front of his own friends or adults in your life? Because when I think about this I think that, with the childs friends, if they knew they would tease or bully the child in question. And I think a lot of adults would question it also.

The people that I call friends wouldn't even bat an eye at it, and nor would their children. It's all about associations (i.e.: modern society has deemed it wrong/innappropriate, so many adults pass those thoughts on to their children.) Instead, if you're in a circle of people who encourage and support the family unit as a whole it is not an issue.

So that makes me wonder - why is there so much of an instinctive reaction - even from the mothers themselves who allow it - that its not right?

I don't know if it's basic natural instinct deciding this one, or if it's modern society's definitions of correct adult/child behaviour. All I can think is that if you examine other (more "basic/primative") societies, they all cosleep as a completely natural part of life. It would be wrong for them to force seperate living arrangements. Humans are, after all, animals, and if you look at our closest biological cousins - the apes - it is very natural for them to cosleep throughout their entire life. So I think it's important for everyone to consciously decide whether it's their own inner voice or that of society making this decision for them.

Ickle Magoo

username123 wrote: »

Here is a question for the people who think its ok. Would you be ok with your childs friends, or adults in your life such as relations, friends, GP etc.. knowing that your child sleeps with his mother habitually - Im not talking about the scenario that Fittle outlined when her child might have a bad day and sleeps in with his mother once in a while - Im talking about it being the normal bedtime routine, that a child of 8 or 9 sleeps with his mother every night.

Would you be happy for your child to casually drop it in conversation in front of his own friends or adults in your life?

We don't make any decisions, parenting or otherwise, based on cow-towing to the perceived disapproval of either our, or children's, peers - tho baring in mind the numbers of families we know who also co-sleep habitually or just as the occasion arises, I wouldn't foresee as much as an raised eye-brow.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think basing parenting decisions on people who have no baring on the family unit or what is important to/in that family unit as any "healthier" than the co-sleeping you seem to be so set against.

username123

Ayla wrote: »

It's all about associations (i.e.: modern society has deemed it wrong/innappropriate, so many adults pass those thoughts on to their children.)

This is a very important point. I personally came from a family where this would have been frowned upon, my family 'culture' would have instilled in me that its not right. Hence, I automatically think its not right.

But that doesnt mean its not. It just means my family culture told me it wasnt. We also had a culture of extreme bathroom privacy and Im never quite comfortable with people who can pee with the door open! - my point being - intellectually there is nothing wrong with it - but I just cant do it myself.

I just asked my husband there what he thinks and he was horrified that an 8 year old would be sleeping with his mother. Ive already spoken to various friends over time who moved children to their own room and set boundaries, so I do not know anyone in my own circle who does it.

However - what sets these kinds of cultural norms of modern society that Ayla refers to? I disagree with Alya about more primitive societies, in fact, there is a variety of sleeping arrangements throughout the world, but in a lot of cases the practical element is that there are not available seperate beds for each person so co-sleeping is an entire family arrangement by necessity - rather than what is being discussed here - which is simply for emotional reasons.

username123

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

We don't make any decisions, parenting or otherwise, based on cow-towing to the perceived disapproval of either our, or children's, peers - tho baring in mind the numbers of families we know who also co-sleep habitually or just as the occasion arises, I wouldn't foresee as much as an raised eye-brow.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think basing parenting decisions on people who have no baring on the family unit or what is important to/in that family unit as any "healthier" than the co-sleeping you seem to be so set against.

What you quoted of mine was taken out of context, I went on to wonder why there would be an instinctive reaction from anyone against it. I never said anything about percieved cow-towing. I was merely exploring, from an academic viewpoint, why it could or would raise questions. Im sorry if you didnt understand that post.

Justask

Username from reading your post you come across as very concerned in what other people may or may not think. When your a mother no one mathers but your child IMO If your child is happy and healthy sod what everyone else thinks what is right or wrong.

username123

Justask wrote: »

Username from reading your post you come across as very concerned in what other people may or may not think.

Eh, the whole point of the thread is the OP asking what other people think?

Justask

username123 wrote: »

Eh, the whole point of the thread is the OP asking what other people think?

Yes and im pointing out it makes no difference what peope think once her child is happy!

But you seem more concerned about what people would say if they found out that the child sleeps in mums bed.

Ayla

username123 wrote: »

However - what sets these kinds of cultural norms of modern society that Ayla refers to? I disagree with Alya about more primitive societies, in fact, there is a variety of sleeping arrangements throughout the world, but in a lot of cases the practical element is that there are not available seperate beds for each person so co-sleeping is an entire family arrangement by necessity - rather than what is being discussed here - which is simply for emotional reasons.

I've said all along in my posts that societies cosleep for a number of reasons (many of them financial). But I brought this up b/c the OP was concerned about the long-term affects cosleeping would have on her son, and I wanted to highlight the fact that all of these societies raise independent and successful children in their own rights. This would seem to be the only statistics available to show the OP that she need not be worried about her son in the longterm.

username123

Justask wrote: »

But you seem more concerned about what people would say if they found out that the child sleeps in mums bed.

I think you missed the point I was making there too - see my earlier post about exploring it academically.

Of course its irrelevant what other people think, but I was wondering why people would think in one direction or another. I thought the idea of threads like this was to explore ideas! Otherwise we're all just shouting 'youre wrong', 'im right' at each other.

Ickle Magoo

username123 wrote: »

What you quoted of mine was taken out of context, I went on to wonder why there would be an instinctive reaction from anyone against it. I never said anything about percieved cow-towing. I was merely exploring, from an academic viewpoint, why it could or would raise questions. Im sorry if you didnt understand that post.

I assumed because it was prefaced with

Here is a question for the people who think its ok.

that you weren't just throwing out rhetorical questions...and I do think much of the instinctive reactions against "non-traditional" (at least in the last couple of generations) approach to most things owe more to the infamous "what might the neighbours think" [historic?] mentality than what is actually going to be of the greatest benefit to the child/individual/family unit in question...

Ayla

username123 wrote: »

Eh, the whole point of the thread is the OP asking what other people think?

Eh, no, the OP was initially about what the longterm effects could be for her son who sleeps in her bed as an 8-yr old. Not what everyone thought about it.

Justask

username123 wrote: »

I think you missed the point I was making there too - see my earlier post about exploring it academically.

Of course its irrelevant what other people think, but I was wondering why people would think in one direction or another. I thought the idea of threads like this was to explore ideas! Otherwise we're all just shouting 'youre wrong', 'im right' at each other.

Crossed wires

I dont mean this thread I mean the mum should not IMO worry about what HER friends, family, workmates etc think or worry about them 'finding out'

username123

Ayla wrote: »

Eh, no, the OP was initially about what the longterm effects could be for her son who sleeps in her bed as an 8-yr old. Not what everyone thought about it.

Yes, exactly, she wanted to know what other people thought about this - otherwise why would she be posting about it on a public forum - if not to get other peoples viewpoints.

Justask

username123 wrote: »

Yes, exactly, she wanted to know what other people thought about this - otherwise why would she be posting about it on a public forum - if not to get other peoples viewpoints.

Ye here as in advice on the longterm effects.

Not what others in her daily life may or may not frown upon.

username123

Justask wrote: »

I mean the mum should not IMO worry about what HER friends, family, workmates etc think or worry about them 'finding out'

I dont think she should worry about that either - I was just interested in the OPs own mental perception of it - looking from the outside in.

Ayla

username123 wrote: »

I dont think she should worry about that either - I was just interested in the OPs own mental perception of it - looking from the outside in.

Funny you say that, b/c all of your recent posts have been hypothetical "for all those out there" questions in the name of academia.

Now, enough of this bickering. Anyone have anything else sensible to say to the OP?