Hooded Merganser

Birdnuts

Another exotic duck has turned up in the area - 3 Hooded Merganzers were photographed yesterday. What is going on down there

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Birdnuts wrote: »

Another exotic duck has turned up in the area - 3 Hooded Merganzers were photographed yesterday. What is going on down there

These get blown in or lost every now and again. A couple turned up in Northern Ireland in the Spring. They, at least, are a natural occurance, while the Mandarin is an exotic introduction.

V_Moth

Maria Early Celebration wrote: »

These get blown in or lost every now and again. A couple turned up in Northern Ireland in the Spring. They, at least, are a natural occurance, while the Mandarin is an exotic introduction.

Nope. Unfortunately Hooded Merganser is a species that is commonly held in captivity and escapes are reported every so often (as is the case with the Blessington birds). There are one or two records from western Ireland which may have involved natural vagrants, but escapes confuse the picture.

Hooded Mergansers cost around €200 (http://www.efowl.com/Hooded_Merganser_Ducks_p/5024.htm).

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Sorry V_Moth, but what I said holds. These birds do arrive here as vagrants. The 2 records from N.Ireland earlier this year were vagrants. I know birds are kept in captivity (so are many species from Ducks to Raptors) but I simply said that they do occur as vagrants from time to time. I accept what you say about captive birds and escapees but please do not contradict what I said, as it was fact. Those that arrive as vagrants are a natural occurance while ALL mandarins are exotics that do not belong.

V_Moth

Maria Early Celebration wrote: »

Sorry V_Moth, but what I said holds. These birds do arrive here as vagrants. The 2 records from N.Ireland earlier this year were vagrants. I know birds are kept in captivity (so are many species from Ducks to Raptors) but I simply said that they do occur as vagrants from time to time. I accept what you say about captive birds and escapees but please do not contradict what I said, as it was fact. Those that arrive as vagrants are a natural occurance while ALL mandarins are exotics that do not belong.

Could you give link to the two sightings in Northern Ireland? I have searched Irishbirding and BirdGuides and can't find any recent reports from NI.

The issue of escapes, especially in relation to waterfowl is a very contentious one and there are numerous threads on birding boards. Personally, the only way I would accept species such as Hooded Merganser to be wild is through ringing recovery or as part of a larger influx (as happened with Blue-winged Teal in Sep-2010).

Also, I never disagreed with your point that Mandarin Ducks are non-native nor that Hooded Merganser may (very rarely) occur as a genuine vagrant.

Traonach

Maria Early Celebration wrote: »

These get blown in or lost every now and again. A couple turned up in Northern Ireland in the Spring. They, at least, are a natural occurance, while the Mandarin is an exotic introduction.

I didn't hear anything about Hooded mergansers in the North this year. They are not reported in the Irish Rare Bird for 2011.http://www.irbc.ie/provisional/provisional.php The definitive list for true wild vagrants. They must have been escaped birds.
The hooded mergansers in the Blessington Basin are not wild birds. They are not behaving like wild birds.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I'm afraid I don't bother with too many birding blogs. Saw them however and they are logged on the office database by other at the time. I'll not swear to then being vagrants, as opposed to escapees, but vagrants of the species do occur unlike Mandarins.

V_Moth wrote: »

Also, I never disagreed with your point that Mandarin Ducks are non-native nor that Hooded Merganser may (very rarely) occur as a genuine vagrant.

Em...

V_Moth wrote: »

Nope.

following a quote of my post. Seems like disagreement to me. But no worries.

Any road, we're all drifting away from the topic I think.

Traonach

Maria Early Celebration wrote: »

I'm afraid I don't bother with too many birding blogs. Saw them however and they are logged on the office database by other at the time. I'll not swear to then being vagrants, as opposed to escapees, but vagrants of the species do occur unlike Mandarins.



Em...

following a quote of my post. Seems like disagreement to me. But no worries.

Any road, we're all drifting away from the topic I think.

Do you have any photos?
What distance did you see the bird at?
What other ducks was the bird with?
Was it a coastal location where the bird was?
Have you any link to information on that bird?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Yes (company copyrighted)
60mts (what difference does that make?)
None
Yes (saltwater lagoon)
Only intranet (and no time for twitchers there!) Not every bird recorded by professionals is published on birding sites, you know. Indeed, we don't issue specific reports on each vagrant sighted. We may reference some in an annual report if of significance towards trends, but most vagrants are just lost birds and not relevant in any scientific way to environmental issues or habitat protection -curiosities don't really cut it when working to protect native flora & fauna or our ecosystem. Counts of the "common" birds are more likely to be released than oddities.:)

Relevance to topic??

Traonach

Maria Early Celebration wrote: »

Yes (company copyrighted)
60mts (what difference does that make?)
None
Yes (saltwater lagoon)
Only intranet (and no time for twitchers there!) Not every bird recorded by professionals is published on birding sites, you know. Indeed, we don't issue specific reports on each vagrant sighted. We may reference some in an annual report if of significance towards trends, but most vagrants are just lost birds and not relevant in any scientific way to environmental issues or habitat protection -curiosities don't really cut it when working to protect native flora & fauna or our ecosystem. Counts of the "common" birds are more likely to be released than oddities.:)

Relevance to topic??

I find it strange that nobody (outside your circle) has heard of this possible wild Hooded merganser. It would have been a mega-rarity. Why all the secrecy? Surely you would have known that loads of people would have been interested in the bird.

and no time for twitchers there!

Strange

60mts (what difference does that make?)

With a escaped domestic duck you can often get very close to it (a couple of metres). The photo's of the Hooded Merganser in the Blessington basin shows this. A truely wild bird is alot more difficult to get close to.

LostCovey

Maria Early Celebration wrote: »

Yes (company copyrighted)
60mts (what difference does that make?)
None
Yes (saltwater lagoon)
Only intranet (and no time for twitchers there!) Not every bird recorded by professionals is published on birding sites, you know. Indeed, we don't issue specific reports on each vagrant sighted. We may reference some in an annual report if of significance towards trends, but most vagrants are just lost birds and not relevant in any scientific way to environmental issues or habitat protection -curiosities don't really cut it when working to protect native flora & fauna or our ecosystem. Counts of the "common" birds are more likely to be released than oddities.:)

Relevance to topic??

Relevance to topic is escaped/wild exotic waterfowl!

Professionals are quick enough to use amateur data and sweat when it comes to getting iWEBS counts done, this attitude could to some ears sound like snobbery and is very dated.

Many 'professionals' pooh-pooh rarities, but still feel the need to gloat about suppressing them. I am not a twitcher, honest. But I don't gloat about suppression either. If you are going to keep quiet about something for a good reason (and we have all done that on a greater/lesser scale at some stage), then do that. Keep quiet about it.

Gloating about a suppressed rarity, and making claims for its provenance in the knowledge that you can't be challenged (because the bird is long gone) is rather distasteful, in my opinion,

If they are irrelevant curiosities, why mention them on your 'professional' intranet' and log them on the database?

In any case, there is no more reason to believe the Hooded Merganser you mention is more wild than any other one. The fact you got to within 60 meters of it strongly suggests it was "farmyard fowl"

There was a Hooded Merganser I saw years ago up on a lake above Milford in Donegal, near Kerrykeel that probably had good credentials (right time of year, after westerly storms, remote western site, very wild & spooky), a young female. It was well publicised, but I don't believe it was ever accepted as a wild bird.However, like your 'professional' bird, these birds are escapees, until proven otherwise, and that proof is very hard to find.


For most birders, records not submitted to the IRBC have no standing, even if they were seen by 'professionals'.


LostCovey.

LostCovey

This was the one I saw. It stayed there for about a week, then disappeared.

LC




Subject: Hooded Merganser in Donegal
From: "williamm.mcdowell" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: williamm.mcdowell
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 14:38:39 +0100
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Parts/Attachments:

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Wilton Farelly has phoned to say he has had a Hooded Merg on Kinney Lough, near Fannad
May be a imm male type
Further details should be available from Eric

Regards Willie

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Look, I don't want this getting out of hand and certainly don't want to fall out with anybody over this. I did accept the NI birds could have been escapees (as any records to date also accept).The point was that there was no comparison between the status of a Mandarin Duck and a Hooded Merganser. I also was trying to say that rarities, or vagrants, are just lost birds and not really of any significance to our eco-systems or native wildlife - therefore of little or no interest to many involved in nature in Ireland. A rarity which is showing a trend (Little egret a few years back) is a different matter as is a rarity showing a return to Ireland (Buzzards at one point).
Hooded Mergansers (regardless of where or when) have been found in Ireland as vagrants while Mandarin Ducks have not.
I've probably worded the whole thing hamfistedly and apologies if I did so.

V_Moth

Occurrence of Hooded Mergansers in western Europe: http://birdguides.com/webzine/article.asp?a=1357

@Srameen: I see now where the confusion arose in previous post. You were pointing out the different status of Hooded Merganser and Mandarin Ducks as entire species. I was only thinking about individual occurrences (hence my "nope" in a previous post)...

LostCovey

Like most dust-ups on this forum, there is essential agreement on the main issue, a bit of misunderstanding, and maybe some people having a bad day (me).

No offence taken really, and definitely none intended.

LC

recedite

What would happen if hooded mergansers of unknown provenance bred here.
Would the offspring still be alien species/exotics?

V_Moth

recedite wrote: »

What would happen if hooded mergansers of unknown provenance bred here.
Would the offspring still be alien species/exotics?

Yes. They would be classified in category C1 or D4 of the Irish Bird List (http://www.irbc.ie/topbar/categories.php). Currently they would be in Category E.