single Mother emigrating

Cat Melodeon

mammmmmy wrote: »

Thanks- i guess i just have to make sure its legal before we go.- wouldn't want to kidnap my own child- as some have put it.

I mentioned the word abduction in one of the earlier posts OP. This wasn't a judgement of any kind, it is just what you could be legally accused of if you did emigrate without the father's permission. A friend of mine moved with her two children to Canada last year leaving the father behind. He initially objected but they managed to come to an agreement outside the courts - I think they went through the Family Mediation Service. Not bashing anyone here, but he really played no significant role in their lives and the quality of life they now enjoy is far superior to anything they had access to here. They miss all their extended family but have family and friends in Canada already and are settling well. The dad has an open invitation to visit and stay whenever he wants - he hasn't gone yet, for whatever reasons (not lack of money).

If it's what you want, go for it, just be aware that he can make it very difficult for you so tread softly.

James Jones

Sharrow wrote: »

He doens't have the right to stop you up and moving to another country, he does how ever get a say in if his child moves to another country.

This is not true. See Section 16 of the Non Fatal Offences Against the person act.

Fittle wrote: »

is it illegal in itself if she travels abroad without his permission? Does guardianship mean he has to give permission for all travel - I know it means he has to sign passport applications etc, but does it also mean he has to approve her leaving the country at any time?

Yes

mammmmmy wrote: »

wouldn't want to kidnap my own child- as some have put it.

They are not being judgemental by indicating that you would be kidnapping your own child. The legislation refers to it as "Abduction of child by parent".

Morag

James Jones he can not block her on her own leaving the country, please re read what I posted.

James Jones

Sharrow wrote: »

James Jones wrote: »

Sharrow wrote: »

He doens't have the right to stop you up and moving to another country, he does how ever get a say in if his child moves to another country.

This is not true. See Section 16 of the Non Fatal Offences Against the person act.

James Jones he can not block her on her own leaving the country, please re read what I posted.

Sorry. The sentence construction threw me off.

The Corinthian

Sharrow wrote: »

Get legal advice on it, I know of two parents who got permission from the courts when they contested the other parent blocking them leaving the country, as they were able to prove that they would have a better live and would have a job and support systems in place they were granted the right to move with the child.

I suspect there was more to it than simply "a better live and would have a job and support systems in place"; otherwise custody would more often go to the parent with a job. Where is also an issue; moving to Australia has a far greater impact than moving to the UK. I suspect the judge on the day is also a potential factor.

OP: I would council against a unilateral emigration. As has been pointed out it would legally be seen as abduction which would mean that you would end up having to live 'under the radar' indefinitely, move to a jurisdiction where he Hague convention, that covers this issue internationally, does not apply (limiting you to countries such as Saudi Arabia or North Korea) and returning to Ireland, even for a visit, could result in your arrest.

The first step is to seek legal advice. Ultimately a bunch of armchair lawyers on the interweb will not be qualified to give advice you can rely on, although we can probably point you in the right or most likely direction.

The father in your case has both guardianship and (court-ordered) access, which would indicate that a court has already decided that the father is better off in the child's life - regardless of your opinion. My suspicion is that if he legally objected to the child being brought to another country to live, it is more than likely that he would be able to block such a move.

The only thing that struck me, from what you said, was that he presently has bi-monthly access; is that bi-monthly in terms of twice a month or every two months (it's a little unclear to me)? If the latter, and if you intend to move within Europe, then your chances of overruling his objection would get a lot better, IMHO, as he could still have the same access by flying over, especially if you are seen to accommodate such an arrangement (financially and/or otherwise).

Negotiation will probably (after you know where you stand legally) be the best or even only course of action. Some compromise agreement where the child can spend the Summers with the father, for example, could be one solution. Another is where the father would travel regularly to see the child (although cost would have to be negotiated). If his interest in the child is really limited, offering to reduce or forego any maintenance may also work. Using a counsellor or mediator may be advisable for this if the two of you have a poor working relationship.

Funky G

The Corinthian wrote: »

I suspect there was more to it than simply "a better live and would have a job and support systems in place"; otherwise custody would more often go to the parent with a job. Where is also an issue; moving to Australia has a far greater impact than moving to the UK. I suspect the judge on the day is also a potential factor.

OP: I would council against a unilateral emigration. As has been pointed out it would legally be seen as abduction which would mean that you would end up having to live 'under the radar' indefinitely, move to a jurisdiction where he Hague convention, that covers this issue internationally, does not apply (limiting you to countries such as Saudi Arabia or North Korea) and returning to Ireland, even for a visit, could result in your arrest.

The first step is to seek legal advice. Ultimately a bunch of armchair lawyers on the interweb will not be qualified to give advice you can rely on, although we can probably point you in the right or most likely direction.

The father in your case has both guardianship and (court-ordered) access, which would indicate that a court has already decided that the father is better off in the child's life - regardless of your opinion. My suspicion is that if he legally objected to the child being brought to another country to live, it is more than likely that he would be able to block such a move.

The only thing that struck me, from what you said, was that he presently has bi-monthly access; is that bi-monthly in terms of twice a month or every two months (it's a little unclear to me)? If the latter, and if you intend to move within Europe, then your chances of overruling his objection would get a lot better, IMHO, as he could still have the same access by flying over, especially if you are seen to accommodate such an arrangement (financially and/or otherwise).

Negotiation will probably (after you know where you stand legally) be the best or even only course of action. Some compromise agreement where the child can spend the Summers with the father, for example, could be one solution. Another is where the father would travel regularly to see the child (although cost would have to be negotiated). If his interest in the child is really limited, offering to reduce or forego any maintenance may also work. Using a counsellor or mediator may be advisable for this if the two of you have a poor working relationship.

for me, the best post on this thread. a lot of common sense without the gun-ho attitude of crashing in with the lawyers, especially if you get all your advice from the web.

op - talk to the dad. talk to your solicitor in his / her office. i sense a lot of anger from your posts in that the dad only sees the child now and again and you feel that he should be doing a lot more. taking the dad out of the equation for he only sees the child once in blue moon could do some damage to all parties

Grandady

I agree with Funky G. Talk to the Dad.