Irish Slutwalk

4leto

Robdude wrote: »

If we collect data about crimes and see a pattern it is reasonable to explore the idea that altering the pattern can prevent the crime.

It doesn't matter what the crime is or what the data is; if there is a correlation it's enough to consider avoiding that behaviour.

If we have data that shows cars parked in dark parking lots are more likely to be broken into than ones in well lit areas; it's reasonable to educate people that 'parking in dark parking lots' might be dangerous. Likewise empty streets verse crowded public streets.

If we look at data surrounding rape and see patterns, regardless of how we feel things 'should' be; we can say, 'Maybe you should avoid doing X because X is involved in many cases of rape'.

The Slutwalk people take offense to this. They believe no girl, ever *should* be raped, so girls should be able to do whatever they want and not be raped. I agree, in theory. Just like no car should ever be broken into.

In practice, until the world is a more perfect place, let's do what we can to prevent being a victim of a crime.

For example, excessive alcohol consumption is a factor in the vast majority of rapes. The vast majority of rapes happen when someone is alone. The vast majority or rapes are not perpetuated by strangers; but people you know, at least a little.

So, I think it's reasonable to tell people, 'Look, nobody deserves to be raped, it's a horrible crime, BUT data suggests that you should avoid heavy drinking or at least be more aware of the potential for being a victim when you are drinking. You should not be alone (alone with someone else) *especially* if you have been drinking. And, you should be worried about a person you've just met less than a stranger breaking into your house and raping you'.

In short, don't go to a bar, get smashed, leave your friends, and go home with a nice guy you've just met.

It's not a moral judgement, it's just practical based on evidence we've collected. If dressing a certain way does, in practice, increase the odds of being a victim, and a policeman conveys that information, he's doing a GOOD thing. It's about prevention, not what is morally right.

That's *IF* the data supports it. I don't know if sluttily dressed girls are more likely to be raped or not, but if they are, why not tell people the truth? I'm assuming a cop would know about these things.

But that is rubbish,

You there I assume you are not a rapist, so would you ever be tempted to, because of what a women is wearing.

Or lets assume you picked up at a night club went back to, say hers and to spite her wearing NOTHING and she changes her mind and says NO.

Do you say well she is wearing nothing, so I am justified in overpowering her and getting my end away.

A rape is a rapist state of mind, it has nothing to do with a woman or what she is wearing Like we are not that helpless or out of control.

midlandsmissus

Robdude wrote: »

If we collect data about crimes and see a pattern it is reasonable to explore the idea that altering the pattern can prevent the crime.

It doesn't matter what the crime is or what the data is; if there is a correlation it's enough to consider avoiding that behaviour.

If we have data that shows cars parked in dark parking lots are more likely to be broken into than ones in well lit areas; it's reasonable to educate people that 'parking in dark parking lots' might be dangerous. Likewise empty streets verse crowded public streets.

If we look at data surrounding rape and see patterns, regardless of how we feel things 'should' be; we can say, 'Maybe you should avoid doing X because X is involved in many cases of rape'.

The Slutwalk people take offense to this. They believe no girl, ever *should* be raped, so girls should be able to do whatever they want and not be raped. I agree, in theory. Just like no car should ever be broken into.

In practice, until the world is a more perfect place, let's do what we can to prevent being a victim of a crime.

For example, excessive alcohol consumption is a factor in the vast majority of rapes. The vast majority of rapes happen when someone is alone. The vast majority or rapes are not perpetuated by strangers; but people you know, at least a little.

So, I think it's reasonable to tell people, 'Look, nobody deserves to be raped, it's a horrible crime, BUT data suggests that you should avoid heavy drinking or at least be more aware of the potential for being a victim when you are drinking. You should not be alone (alone with someone else) *especially* if you have been drinking. And, you should be worried about a person you've just met less than a stranger breaking into your house and raping you'.

In short, don't go to a bar, get smashed, leave your friends, and go home with a nice guy you've just met.

It's not a moral judgement, it's just practical based on evidence we've collected. If dressing a certain way does, in practice, increase the odds of being a victim, and a policeman conveys that information, he's doing a GOOD thing. It's about prevention, not what is morally right.

That's *IF* the data supports it. I don't know if sluttily dressed girls are more likely to be raped or not, but if they are, why not tell people the truth? I'm assuming a cop would know about these things.

Yes I agree with you in that you should take precautions and eliminate risk factors, but I think the issue with the march is people's attitudes to girls AFTER they have been raped. Not to tell her she was raped because she was 'asking for it.'

Which in itself makes no sense. How could she be asking for it if she said no/ tries to fight him off..?

spider guardian

Does this slutwalk have any particular purpose or just an attempt to raise the issue of sexual assault in general? Can't be denied it has got people talking.

I'm not sure how prevalent the 'she was asking for it' mentality is but it deserves to be tackled, it's not right to add insult to injury in that manner

prinz

panda100 wrote: »

what would men wear on the slutwalk? men can take their tops off in public, and are not labelled as being 'provocative'. It doesn't matter what clothes men wear they will never be labelled 'sluts' in them. Maybe you can organise a slut walk when you are judged for what you wear?

Men are judged for what they wear all the time. By other men and by women. Are you telling me women never judge men by what they are wearing? Or is it that it only becomes offensive if it has to deal with 'slut'? How many times have I heard a woman question a man's sexuality based on his clothing...

prinz

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

So lets see all the links to studies and expert opinion that show how a woman dresses plays a major role in her likelihood of being raped.Oh....wait.

So the slutwalk is a complaint against a problem that doesn't exist..

midlandsmissus

prinz wrote: »

So the slutwalk is a complaint against a problem that doesn't exist..

The problem is calling girls "sluts, "asking for it", after they have been raped.

prinz

midlandsmissus wrote: »

The problem is calling girls "sluts, "asking for it", after they have been raped.

Any cases of this happening here? Any examples? By the way a few pages ago in a post you thanked it was protesting about 'attitudes about what they wear' i.e. all women, not only about comments about actual rape victims.

The problem is when you question a victims choices in some situations you are automatically assumed to be taking blame away from the criminal and putting it on the victim. That doesn't follow. Sometimes victims have behaved stupidly and didn't help themselves (male and female, rape victims and others) highlighting that fact isn't victim blaming, but it may help people in the future avoid the same... and yes when my OH is dressed up for going out and she's on her own she is more mindful of her own security, than if she was wearing jeans, runners and a hoodie for example. She says it herself, she often feels more vulnerable when she's attracting male attention because she's done up.. and she channels that into being more aware of who is around etc. Is the slutwalk a protest against her too? Should she be less mindful about her safety those times she feels most insecure?

Roisy7

I was there in Galway today to cover the march for the college newspaper.

While (of course as a woman who likes her fashion) I believe that women should be able to wear what they want without being targeted for sexual assault, I'm not entirely sure myself of the whole Slutwalk concept. The problem with any feminist movement these days is that a lot of people immediately get the image of humourless, man-hating "dykes".

Reclaiming the word slut like the gay community reclaims queer is admirable but it doesn't stop the word slut being used as an insult, just like it doesn't stop homophobes using "queer" and "******" as insults.

But:

I don't think anyone in the Slutwalk movement claims that it'll stop rapists. Predatory rapists will rape. It's the attitude of the public that needs to change. It's only a few years since a rapist's hand was shaken in a courtroom in this country by people who saw him as one of the lads. As far as I can see it's the people doing the hand-shaking that SlutWalk aims to educate, not the rapist.

I don't necessarily think its the most effective way to educate them. The march coincided with lunchtime in Galway's schools, and some schoolboys passed remarks at the marchers.

These lads need to be educated, and educated in school: They need to be reminded again and again that women are someone's sister, mother, daughter and they need respect. There seems to be a strong current of misogyny in today's pop culture and it needs to be countered. Likewise, girls should be told that not all men are bastards, we need to cut men some slack sometimes.

Finally, some posters mentioned the power dynamic involved in rape. Rape is about dominance. The dominance of the strong over the weak. Women are still physically weaker, something I feel often as a very petite girl is my vulnerability at times.

I spoke to a representative from the Rape Crisis Network and she told me there was no evidence that attire made a difference to rates of rape. In fact, the people who get raped most often are children

Sorry for the length of post.

PseudoFamous

I just had a gander at some of the pictures of these Galway "sluts". They weren't very slutty at all. In fact, they were covered from head to toe, not even in lace or leather or latex or anything.

A disappointing day, all in all.

Shane732

So has anyone got pictures of this so called slut walk?

prinz

Roisy7 wrote: »

Reclaiming the word slut like the gay community reclaims queer is admirable

Wtf is there to 'reclaim' about the word slut?

Roisy7 wrote: »

These lads need to be educated, and educated in school: They need to be reminded again and again that women are someone's sister, mother, daughter and they need respect. There seems to be a strong current of misogyny in today's pop culture and it needs to be countered. Likewise, girls should be told that not all men are bastards, we need to cut men some slack sometimes..

Presumably you mean by 'cutting the men some slack' you mean these girls being educated, and educated in school?

jaffacakesyum

Did anyone here attend it? Ages ago, I heard one was planned for Dublin but I can't seem to find any information on it. I'd definitely take part in it. I think it's an important message to get out to the people that it's NOT ok to sexually abuse someone or rape them based on what they're wearing. It's ridiculous. And I haven't read through all this thread but no doubt there are people arguing that women 'deserve' it if they dress slutty :rolleyes:

strobe

Roisy7 wrote: »

It's the attitude of the public that needs to change. It's only a few years since a rapist's hand was shaken in a courtroom in this country by people who saw him as one of the lads. As far as I can see it's the people doing the hand-shaking that SlutWalk aims to educate, not the rapist.

Just in relationship to this. From what I remember of that 'hand shaking incident' it wasn't that the people had the attitude of 'ah sure he only raped her, what's the big deal' or 'she was asking to be raped' it was that they believed he hadn't raped her, that he was innocent.

I of course agree that an attitude of 'so she was raped, she was asking for it' is abhorrent but I think trying to suggest that this is a common societal attitude and not just one held be a tiny number of freako nutjobs is at best misleading and personally I don't think the tiny percent of freako nutjobs are going to have their minds changed by girls dressing like Madonna and walking down a street.

jaffacakesyum

strobe wrote: »

Just in relationship to this. From what I remember of that 'hand shaking incident' it wasn't that the people had the attitude of 'ah sure he only raped her, what's the big deal' or 'she was asking to be raped' it was that they believed he hadn't raped her, that he was innocent.

I of course agree that an attitude of 'so she was raped, she was asking for it' is abhorrent but I think trying to suggest that this is a common societal attitude and not just one held be a tiny number of freako nutjobs is at best misleading and personally I don't think the tiny percent of freako nutjobs are going to have their minds changed by girls dressing like Madonna and walking down a street.

You would be surprised.

I've come across it quite frequently unfortunately.

Not in cases of rape but in cases of getting their ass/tits squeezed, getting groped and mild (for want of a better word) sexual assault.

Whether you want to accept it or not the attitude of 'ah sure she was askin for it' is definitely alive in society today. How common it is, I don't know. But it certainly isn't confined to a small number of 'freako nutjobs'

prinz

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

You would be surprised.
I've come across it quite frequently unfortunately. Not in cases of rape but in cases of getting their ass/tits squeezed, getting groped and mild (for want of a better word) sexual assault.

..and as I have said, and others on this thread, I have myself been pinched, groped and grabbed by women uninvited. Do I think it's all fun and games... because that's the usual response from female friends?

jaffacakesyum

prinz wrote: »

..and as I have said, and others on this thread, I have myself been pinched, groped and grabbed by women uninvited. Do I think it's all fun and games... because that's the usual response from female friends?

Haven't read the thread so I apologise.

Nope - I don't think it's fun and games. Unconsenual groping, slapping, grabbing, assaulting is NEVER acceptable. Regardless of gender.

And two wrongs don't make it right either btw. If a woman is found doing this to a man, it doesn't mean it's ok for a man to then say 'right I'm gonna grope this girl then - it's clearly not a big deal'

And vice versa.

Roisy7

prinz wrote: »

Wtf is there to 'reclaim' about the word slut?



Presumably you mean by 'cutting the men some slack' you mean these girls being educated, and educated in school?

Yes I would do. When I was in school we were told men can't help themselves and its our responsibility to not "lead them on", all that crap. I think schools have a real duty to promote equality between the sexes. That means respect, and respect goes both ways. Girls can be very emotionally and psychologically cruel to guys, probably because we are led to believe they don't "feel" quite the same as we do.


*Just in relationship to this. From what I remember of that 'hand shaking incident' it wasn't that the people had the attitude of 'ah sure he only raped her, what's the big deal' or 'she was asking to be raped' it was that they believed he hadn't raped her, that he was innocent.*

I think the reason she wasn't believed was because her family weren't prominent enough in the town, and his was. Couldn't believe that so-and-so's son would rape anyone, rather than the individual himself. Open to correction from anyone from the area.

prinz

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

Haven't read the thread so I apologise..

No problem.

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

Nope - I don't think it's fun and games. Unconsenual groping, slapping, grabbing, assaulting is NEVER acceptable. Regardless of gender. And two wrongs don't make it right either btw. If a woman is found doing this to a man, it doesn't mean it's ok for a man to then say 'right I'm gonna grope this girl then - it's clearly not a big deal'.

I agree. Neither is acceptable. However there has been much more acceptance shown on this thread for women groping/pinching men etc than the other way round. So it's all well and good the sluts hitting the walkway in Galway but does that really achieve a change in attitudes for either sex?

midlandsmissus

prinz wrote: »

Any cases of this happening here? Any examples? By the way a few pages ago in a post you thanked it was protesting about 'attitudes about what they wear' i.e. all women, not only about comments about actual rape victims.

The problem is when you question a victims choices in some situations you are automatically assumed to be taking blame away from the criminal and putting it on the victim. That doesn't follow. Sometimes victims have behaved stupidly and didn't help themselves (male and female, rape victims and others) highlighting that fact isn't victim blaming, but it may help people in the future avoid the same... and yes when my OH is dressed up for going out and she's on her own she is more mindful of her own security, than if she was wearing jeans, runners and a hoodie for example. She says it herself, she often feels more vulnerable when she's attracting male attention because she's done up.. and she channels that into being more aware of who is around etc. Is the slutwalk a protest against her too? Should she be less mindful about her safety those times she feels most insecure?

Posts were pre and after a shift at work. I am tired . But what I wanted and am trying to say is that women don't deserve to be groped for dressing skimpily, AND don't deserve to be told they "asked for it" for the way they were dressed if they are raped.

mikemac

Roisy7 wrote: »

I spoke to a representative from the Rape Crisis Network and she told me there was no evidence that attire made a difference to rates of rape. In fact, the people who get raped most often are children

Children are attacked more then women?
That surprised me

Did you mean to say "have children" so mothers?

jaffacakesyum

prinz wrote: »

I agree. Neither is acceptable. However there has been much more acceptance shown on this thread for women groping/pinching men etc than the other way round. So it's all well and good the sluts hitting the walkway in Galway but does that really achieve a change in attitudes for either sex?

Good point.

I think the SlutWalk idea is a very 'out there' effective way of addressing the problem - it will get a lot of publicity and might make people think twice about groping women because of the way they're dressed!

How do we combat the same for men? Do you think a male SlutWalk would be effective? I don't. Because I don't think men are groped for the way they dress wheras I think women have a much higher chance of getting groped if they're dressed up, make up on etc.

Beyond groping, the SlutWalk addresses the obvious problem of rape which is a step further than the gobsh1te in a club who slaps/grabs/gropes women while drunk. I think it's good that it's addressing this.

I would like to see a perhaps combined campaign that focuses on male rape and domestic abuse victims.

midlandsmissus

strobe wrote: »

Just in relationship to this. From what I remember of that 'hand shaking incident' it wasn't that the people had the attitude of 'ah sure he only raped her, what's the big deal' or 'she was asking to be raped' it was that they believed he hadn't raped her, that he was innocent.

I of course agree that an attitude of 'so she was raped, she was asking for it' is abhorrent but I think trying to suggest that this is a common societal attitude and not just one held be a tiny number of freako nutjobs is at best misleading and personally I don't think the tiny percent of freako nutjobs are going to have their minds changed by girls dressing like Madonna and walking down a street.

I think you'll find it was actually that she was from a council estate and he was from a family with land.

"Believed he hadn't raped her". He didn't rape her , he was convicted of sexually assaulting her.

"They believed he was innocent", with cctv documenting the whole thing there wasn't much room for doubt.

No they knew, and they didn't care, because it was a case of who was the better connected.

I'm glad that case came to light to show up an awful lot of people, imagine shaking the guys hand IN FRONT of the girl, pure pure fools, and the poor girl.

Wompa1

Guys shouldn't be groped and fondled by every other hen night walking the streets in Galway...if you say anything to the women themselves or bar staff or whatever and get told they are just having a bit of fun, what do you do?

I think if a girl went up and said some guy grabbed my groin to a barman the guy would at least be tossed out.

But all this kind of talk is taking away from the actual Slutwalk...in that it's a complete BS movement. I read that it's part of some bigger Rape Awareness week so it doesn't seem as stupid but I'll stand by what I said earlier and says this slutwalk just takes away from the cause.

Roisy7

mikemac wrote: »

Children are attacked more then women?
That surprised me

Did you mean to say "have children" so mothers?

Afraid it's not a typo She said children. It really shocked me too, I nearly dropped my notebook. It was just going back to the point that some of the posters made about rape being a power, dominance thing over the most vulnerable, rather than about sexuality.

Alot of rape and abuse occurs in the family, its far more common that the stranger attacking someone in an alley image we all have.

mikemac

I'm very suprised Roisy, was sure that was a typo

Would never have figured that was the case

I knew about your second sentence and that you are far more likely to be attacked by someone you know and possibly trust then a randomer on the street.

And I believe there was no such thing as rape in a married couple until they changed the law, could be wrong on that

Sure who knows what goes on behind closed doors as they say. There are lot of dysfunctional families out there

midlandsmissus

Wompa1 wrote: »

Guys shouldn't be groped and fondled by every other hen night walking the streets in Galway...if you say anything to the women themselves or bar staff or whatever and get told they are just having a bit of fun, what do you do?

I think if a girl went up and said some guy grabbed my groin to a barman the guy would at least be tossed out.

But all this kind of talk is taking away from the actual Slutwalk...in that it's a complete BS movement. I read that it's part of some bigger Rape Awareness week so it doesn't seem as stupid but I'll stand by what I said earlier and says this slutwalk just takes away from the cause.

I completely agree. What is it with hen parties nowadays? They seem to be getting wilder and rowdier and annoying the hell out of me nearly every weekend on a night out :mad:.

And who the hell thinks it's acceptable to grab a guy's crotch on a night out? These women need to cop on. And barmen, managers need to change their attitude and take it seriously. As the guy said , if he tells a bar manager and he says it's just a bit of fun, what do you do?

It's not right, and women need to tone down their utterly 'everything goes' attitude on a hen night.

Maybe men should have a march about this

prinz

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

I would like to see a perhaps combined campaign that focuses on male rape and domestic abuse victims.

Indeed. Any such campaign IMO should focus on basic rights and an individual's dignity, rather 'I wanna dress/act/behave/be a slut* and have no consequences' on one hand, and complain about misogyny and the objectification of women on the other.

There is a schizophrenic aim some people seem to be aiming for in our world - wanting to be the sex object, while simultaneously not being perceived/ treated as one which is a bit of an immature aim.

*insert bimbo or wag or other here as applicable.

wild_cat

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Drunk on a hen night? Some women need to cop on as well. Crotch grabbing a stranger is not cool by any-one's standards.

Generally if you're a gob****e sober your gonna be an even bigger gob****e pissed to.

DeVore wrote: »

To be fair, the majority of men wouldnt do it to women either. I know of none of my mates who have or would ever do it.

Thats part of the male annoyance with the "feminist" thing. It just tars all men, so a touch more care about that would be appreciated because imho its pretty dirty brush.

DeV.

I whole heartedly agree.

None of my male friends would do it either. They'd probably act out if they seen it happening to!

Equality for all. None of this eighties era spare rib nonsense that all men are evil and utopia would exist if they were eradicated..

midlandsmissus

prinz wrote: »

Indeed. Any such campaign IMO should focus on basic rights and an individual's dignity, rather 'I wanna dress/act/behave/be a slut* and have no consequences' on one hand, and complain about misogyny and the objectification of women on the other.

There is a schizophrenic aim some people seem to be aiming for in our world - wanting to be the sex object, while simultaneously not being perceived/ treated as one which is a bit of an immature aim.

*insert bimbo or wag or other here as applicable.

If there ever was a facepalm due it was this post.

prinz

midlandsmissus wrote: »

If there ever was a facepalm due it was this post.

Yes, imagine people looking for dignity and respect for both sexes. Please note nothing in my post said it was ok to sexually assault or rape anyone, male or female, but I have a feeling once again that is how it is being understood.

mikemac

midlandsmissus wrote: »

If there ever was a facepalm due it was this post.

Can you explain what is wrong with the post?
As I can't see it

prinz

mikemac wrote: »

Can you explain what is wrong with the post?
As I can't see it

Apparently you should be allowed to act like a slut/scumbag/junkie/player/etc etc but nobody is allowed to have an opinion of you based on that fact. That's all I can guess.

Edit: Either that, or if you have a negative opinion of a girl as overly promiscuous or whatever, really you are just a rapist in waiting..

Logical Fallacy

prinz wrote: »

So the slutwalk is a complaint against a problem that doesn't exist..

Interesting take on things.

Did you purposefully miss the point to try and generate impact?

I think so...as from what i have seen of your posting it doesn't lead me to believe that you are a dumbass.

The_Thing

Slutwalks are nothing more than mastubatory fantasies come to life for the likes of radical feminists like Germaine Greer.

prinz

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Interesting take on things.
Did you purposefully miss the point to try and generate impact?

This is what I am trying to get at. I can see the point of the original march in Canada in light of the unfortunate wording of the comments from the Canadian police officer which sparked it off. I can't really see the point of the march here. It's sort of aimed at an alleged response to rape victims that personally I have never seen a high-profile Irish politician, garda, journalist etc etc make nor heard anyone known to me utter. The reaction seems to be 'we can't actually pin down anyone who agrees with the view that a woman shares the blame of her own rape.......... but it's out there'. There is an aspect of fearmongering about it. Is it out there? I don't think it's nearly as widespread an opinion as some would like to believe.

4leto

Part of the growing movement of the Slutwalk is they are reclaiming the word slut. Do you not find it odd that a man can be a slut and get a slap on the back and be admired by his mates and called a womaniser.

While a woman will be just deemed a slut. So a slut is a complement for a man but an insult to a woman. The reason it is that way is because of us men. We kind of like our women "respectable" and chaste.

I quote you Germaine Greer a very scary intellectual world renowned feminist who wrote this about the slutwalk

"walkers are apt to say that the purpose of their action is to "reclaim the word". It's difficult, probably impossible, to reclaim a word that has always been an insult. And yet here are women spontaneously deciding to adopt it. Before we decide that thousands of our sisters are simply stupid or misguided, an attempt must be made to understand what's going on. The slut walk manifesto states: "Historically, the term 'slut' has carried a predominantly negative association. Aimed at those who were sexually promiscuous, be it for work or pleasure, it has primarily been women who have suffered under the burden of this label. We are tired of being oppressed by slut-shaming; of being judged by our sexuality…

............A little knowledge here misleads. Historically, the primary attribute of a slut is not promiscuity but dirt. The word denotes a "woman of dirty, slovenly, or untidy habits or appearance; a foul slattern". A now obsolete meaning connects it with a kitchen maid, whose life was lived in soot and grease. She was too dirty to be allowed above stairs, but drudged out her painful life scraping pans and riddling ash, for 16 hours a day, and then retreated to her squalid lodging where hot water could not be had. The corner she left unswept was the slut corner; the fluff that collected under the furniture was a slut ball. People who thought of sex as dirt suspected the lazy kitchen maid of being unclean in that way as well"

midlandsmissus

prinz wrote: »

Indeed. Any such campaign IMO should focus on basic rights and an individual's dignity, rather 'I wanna dress/act/behave/be a slut* and have no consequences' on one hand, and complain about misogyny and the objectification of women on the other.

There is a schizophrenic aim some people seem to be aiming for in our world - wanting to be the sex object, while simultaneously not being perceived/ treated as one which is a bit of an immature aim.

*insert bimbo or wag or other here as applicable.

'I wanna dress/act/behave/be a slut* and have no consequences'

I think the whole point of the walk is that dressing like that is NOT dressing like a slut. It's just talking round in circles. Cue my facepalm.

prinz

4leto wrote: »

Part of the growing movement of the Slutwalk is they are reclaiming the word slut. Do you not find it odd that a man can be a slut and get a slap on the back and be admired by his mates and called a womaniser.

Yeah I do, and tbh I don't agree with that generalisation. I don't agree that going around sleeping with as many people as you can as something to be particularly proud of regardless of your sex. I would never slap a womaniser on the back and admire him. It's one of those things that men get generalised about once more.

prinz

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I think the whole point of the walk is that dressing like that is NOT dressing like a slut. It's just talking round in circles. Cue my facepalm.

Ah here...and dressing like a scumbag is not dressing like a scumbag. Dressing like a emo is not dressing like an emo...... So you don't think there's any way you can dress where someone else might think 'slapper'? You never look at a guy and think 'he's dressed like a slob/ eejit/ D4-head?

4leto

prinz wrote: »

Yeah I do, and tbh I don't agree with that generalisation. I don't agree that going around sleeping with as many people as you can as something to be particularly proud of regardless of your sex. I would never slap a womaniser on the back and admire him. It's one of those things that men get generalised about once more.

Well I have and most I grew up with has. But we have also called certain women sluts slags and many other derogative names for them exploring and expressing their sexuality without fear of that reputation.

And if you are enlightened would you not agree that others should be to. But led by women as they reclaim it for themselves by the very public demonstration of the slutwalk.

Gay people did it with gay pride, so why not women reclaim theirs with (I don't know) a woman's sexuality pride and added to that would be our attitude to a woman's period. How many times has that come up in a derogative put down from men and of course usually behind their backs.

KeithAFC

Well this is awful for Galway. I do genuinely feel sorry for the people in Galway who had to put up with this. I know they are entitled to do it but I feel sorry for them having to see that sort of thing.

prinz

4leto wrote: »

Well I have and most I grew up with has.

Perhaps it's just how and where you were raised.

4leto wrote: »

But we have also called certain women sluts slags and many other derogative names for them exploring and expressing their sexuality without fear of that reputation..

Here's the thing, why should you 'fear the reputation'? If you want to be a womaniser as a man deal with it...... if you want to 'express your sexuality' deal with it, and deal with the reputation that goes hand in hand with that. Just like reputations go hand in hand with lots of other types of behaviour.

It's back to what I said before, it's people male and female saying 'I want to do x,y or z but I don't want any of the negative baggage that may come with that behaviour'.

Fuhrer

I was in Toronto for the first slut walk.


went out expecting to see some decent looking wimmins in no clothes.

All I saw were ugly wagons that I wouldnt touch with a ten foot clown poll.

4leto

prinz wrote: »

Perhaps it's just how and where you were raised.



Here's the thing, why should you 'fear the reputation'? If you want to be a womaniser as a man deal with it...... if you want to 'express your sexuality' deal with it, and deal with the reputation that goes hand in hand with that. Just like reputations go hand in hand with lots of other types of behaviour.

It's back to what I said before, it's people male and female saying 'I want to do x,y or z but I don't want any of the negative baggage that may come with that behaviour'.

So you do agree a women who sleeps around deserves a bad reputation. Well you need to be enlightened and listen to this movement because to me it makes perfect sense.

And as for how I was raised it wouldn't have mattered I am a man I have more societal freedom then a woman to be a slut when I did choose to be one.

No one put me down, not that I would have even bat an eyelid if they did, I would have carried on.

FetchTheGin

Fuhrer wrote: »

I was in Toronto for the first slut walk.


went out expecting to see some decent looking wimmins in no clothes.

All I saw were ugly wagons that I wouldnt touch with a ten foot clown poll.

They have the most to complain about.

Feminists are disgusting in general.

prinz

4leto wrote: »

So you do agree a women who sleeps around deserves a bad reputation. Well you need to be enlightened and listen to this movement because to me it makes perfect sense.

Why did you ignore the part about applying the same thing to a man who sleeps around? No I don't have to be enlightened about women sleeping around any more than I have to be enlightened about men sleeping around.If they do it, they do it. I reserve the right to include that fact when I am forming an opinion on them, male or female as a person.

If you want to go slap them on the back and think it's great that's your business. I don't.

4leto

prinz wrote: »

Why did you ignore the part about applying the same thing to a man who sleeps around? No I don't have to be enlightened about women sleeping around any more than I have to be enlightened about men sleeping around.If they do it, they do it. I reserve the right to include that fact when I am forming an opinion on them, male or female as a person.

If you want to go slap them on the back and think it's great that's your business. I don't.

I didn't ignore it, I gave you my personal experience, but if you are prudish that is understandable.

If you don't like people who sleep around so be it, then don't do it, but don't be judgemental.

So it just because you don't like it that doesn't mean that is for everybody, so it's Men or women, a kind of equal opportunity sleep around if they want to, or not, without judgement.

midlandsmissus

prinz wrote: »

Ah here...and dressing like a scumbag is not dressing like a scumbag. Dressing like a emo is not dressing like an emo...... So you don't think there's any way you can dress where someone else might think 'slapper'? You never look at a guy and think 'he's dressed like a slob/ eejit/ D4-head?

I have never looked at a women and thought she is a slut. What does the word slut mean to you?

strobe

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

You would be surprised.

I've come across it quite frequently unfortunately.

Not in cases of rape but in cases of getting their ass/tits squeezed, getting groped and mild (for want of a better word) sexual assault.

Whether you want to accept it or not the attitude of 'ah sure she was askin for it' is definitely alive in society today. How common it is, I don't know. But it certainly isn't confined to a small number of 'freako nutjobs'

Have you really come across it that frequently and in what context?

I mean I've seen it from people when for instance a guy is dancing away on a nightclub floor with a girl and puts his hand on her backside, she flips and tells him to fuck off and he is left saying "we were in a nightclub dancing and I put my hand on her ass, why was she dancing with me all night if she wasn't interested" kind of thing.

But I can absolutely say I have never found it to be a common attitude where a guy walks up to a girl he hasn't so much as smiled at and sticks his hand between her legs and people react saying "well she obviously wanted that she was wearing a short skirt". And it's not that I have lead a sheltered life or the circles I move in are populated by saints or anything. I have had some pretty morally dubious associates over the years for whatever reason and I can absolutely say that 99% of people I have known would think a guy doing that was a freako nutjob and have never been in a situation where the common response to something like that was "she was asking for it".

Have I just been supernaturally fortunate in this regard?

prinz

4leto wrote: »

I didn't ignore it, I gave you my personal experience, but if you are prudish that is understandable.

Who is being judgemental now? What does it have to do with being prudish? Nothing whatsoever. I just don't see what kind of personal acheievment is gained by sleeping with loads of people for no other reason than getting another notch on a bedpost.

'Look at me I shagged two girls at the weekend'........ well whoopee for you. Is that an achievement? Something special?

4leto wrote: »

If you don't like people who sleep around so be it, then don't do it, but don't be judgemental.

I know people who sleep around quite a bit. That doesn't mean I have to approve of it, or congratulate them for it, or be impressed by their latest conquest stories. Why is it you can judge people on a whole host of actions and behaviours, but apply it to promiscuity and you've gone beyond the pale...