1 joule law in Ireland

Alan b.

BioHazRd wrote: »

There was a case recently where a person was convicted under the firearms act for possessing an airsoft device powered greater than 1 joule. Granted, he apparently "had form" and when his accomodation was raided, the gardai couldnt find anything other than the RIF, which when tested was above the limit, so they charged him in that respect rather than any other criminal offence (which they were probably looking for in the first place).

This happened a couple of months ago in Naas and was relayed to me while I was involved with the IAA by a person who was involved in the periphery of the case. (Therefore, all of the above should be treated as hearsay)

I dont like scaremongering, and this didnt make the national news probably because the journalists considered it irrelevant in the greater scheme of things, but how would they have reacted if it was a "respectable teeneager" in the dock rather than somebody a little more familiar with the workings of the court

It's not possession of an airsoft gun over the limit,
It's possession of a firearm without a licence.

It's the same as having a 9mm hand gun with no licence.

gerrowadat

Alan b. wrote: »

It's not possession of an airsoft gun over the limit,
It's possession of a firearm without a licence.

It's the same as having a 9mm hand gun with no licence.

Not the same offense -- it's possible to license a 9mm handgun. It's not possible to license a hot airsoft gun. It's an illegal device full stop.

Alan b.

gerrowadat wrote: »

Alan b. wrote: »

It's not possession of an airsoft gun over the limit,
It's possession of a firearm without a licence.

It's the same as having a 9mm hand gun with no licence.

Not the same offense -- it's possible to license a 9mm handgun. It's not possible to license a hot airsoft gun. It's an illegal device full stop.

It depends how hot.
And yes, it is the same offence.
As that's what the offence you will be charged with is.

Firekitten

The law seems pretty clear cut to me... no matter of 'how hot'. Its over, its a firearm.

Alan b.

Firekitten wrote: »

The law seems pretty clear cut to me... no matter of 'how hot'. Its over, its a firearm.

I meant it depends how hot it is weather or not you can licence it in response to his post.
As in, IT IS possible to licence a hot airsoft gun.

F.U.B.A.R

Alan b. wrote: »

I meant it depends how hot it is weather or not you can licence it in response to his post.
As in, IT IS possible to licence a hot airsoft gun.

yes I know of a fella who made one to fire steel ball bearing at 500+fps for hunting small game and had it licenced as a hunting air gun

Firekitten

They can't stamp it, they can't id it, it hasnt got a serial number, it cannot be registered.

Paintball guns are a direct exlusion, as the DPP has been directed to NOT prosecute people on a paintball site for pointing a fire arm at eachother.

Alan b.

Firekitten wrote: »

They can't stamp it, they can't id it, it hasnt got a serial number, it cannot be registered

Not completely true.
But regardless, the offence you will be charged with for having a hot airsoft gun, is the same offence you'd be charged with for having any firearm without the correct licence.

Witcher

Alan b. wrote: »

As in, IT IS possible to licence a hot airsoft gun.

What reason would you put down on the firearms application for needing an airsoft gun shooting 500fps (for instance)?

Lemming

Alan b. wrote: »

Not completely true.
But regardless, the offence you will be charged with for having a hot airsoft gun, is the same offence you'd be charged with for having any firearm without the correct licence.

Tell you what Alan. Go ahead, we'll inform the Gardai and then sit back and watch what happens.

Cheers for volunteering to be the guinea pig. It's ok, no need to be concerned, we're all standing somewhere behind you, out of sight so we can't be associated with you.

This thread is just ..... I cannot take it seriously any more. It's just farcical and four and a half pages too long. The OP got his answer on page one by several different people all within one minute of each other and still refused to accept it. Either deal with it, or don't play airsoft in Ireland. And just let this thread die.

Alan b.

Lemming wrote: »

Alan b. wrote: »

Not completely true.
But regardless, the offence you will be charged with for having a hot airsoft gun, is the same offence you'd be charged with for having any firearm without the correct licence.

Tell you what Alan. Go ahead, we'll inform the Gardai and then sit back and watch what happens.

Cheers for volunteering to be the guinea pig. It's ok, no need to be concerned, we're all standing somewhere behind you, out of sight so we can't be associated with you.

Inform the gardai of what exactly?
What are you talking about?

Read back through my comments

I said you will be charged with possession of a firearm, what exactly do you have an issue with?

Private Snafu

Blay wrote: »

What reason would you put down on the firearms application for needing an airsoft gun shooting 500fps (for instance)?

Blasting fools :pac:

Being serious now though, Irish firearms licensing revolves around having a good reason to own a firearm. As many before have said, what practical application would a 500fps AEG possibly have?

Lemming

Alan b. wrote: »

Inform the gardai of what exactly?
What are you talking about?

Read back through my comments

I said you will be charged with possession of a firearm, what exactly do you have an issue with?

You will not be charged with having a 'hot airsoft gun' as I do not believe that there exists a legal definition of what constitutes an "airsoft gun" under Irish law. You will be charged with having an unlicensed firearm. The law is deliberately vague for a reason; namely giving the state ample room to manoeuvre in finding ways to utterly, utterly f*ck you.

Alan b.

Lemming wrote: »

Alan b. wrote: »

Inform the gardai of what exactly?
What are you talking about?

Read back through my comments

I said you will be charged with possession of a firearm, what exactly do you have an issue with?

You will not be charged with having a 'hot airsoft gun' as I do not believe that there exists a legal definition of what constitutes an "airsoft gun" under Irish law. You will be charged with having an unlicensed firearm.

Oh dear god,
That's exactly why I said.
Possession of a firearm without a licence.
That's the wording of the charge.

Not once did I say you'd be charged with having a hot airsoft gun.
A hot airsoft gun is a firearm. Just like a 9mm is.

Lemming

Alan b. wrote: »

Oh dear god,
That's exactly why I said.
Possession of a firearm without a licence.
That's the wording of the charge.

My bad. I misread what you wrote. Just went back to re-read it and you're right Alan, apologies.

Alan b.

Lemming wrote: »

Alan b. wrote: »

Oh dear god,
That's exactly why I said.
Possession of a firearm without a licence.
That's the wording of the charge.

My bad. I misread what you wrote. Just went back to re-read it and you're right Alan, apologies.

Apology accepted.
It's late and boards can mke people edgy lol

Fionnacus

The 1 Joule 328fps limit may be fine for all yee spray and pray players who only use AEGs and who don't care for accuracy or consistency, but, for us snipers and for players who actually want to develop their skills as marksmen with a consistent accurate powerful gun, it's useless. I suppose if you're an AEG user it makes sense to want the limit to remain the same, AEGs generally shoot 320fps in every country so an increase in power wouldn't benefit you, however having to deal with the added challenge of snipers capable of shooting out of the range of your AEGs I can imagine is a frightening prospect. The fact of the matter is, a sniper shooting at the same power as an AEG at a 20th the rof is useless and makes it impossible for snipers to partake in skirmishes and removes one of the aspects that makes airsofting fun. The next thing is that, if the limit was increased we would have a much greater selection of guns to buy, unless you can find other 1 joule guns in other countries (which is hard to do especially for snipers) you have to restrict yourself to the few guns that irish retailers stock, for example I would love to get a g&g kar98 rifle but they are all too powerful for ireland and downgrading it before it enters the country is very expensive. Another thing is everyone here seams to have this mind set that the law is the law and that is final, well guess what laws change, up until recently airsoft guns were completely banned and those laws changed, perhaps in a few years the same may be true for the fps limit. I could go on all day but this is getting too long.

Leftyflip

Lol, a users first post bitching and moaning about the 1j law.
Pffft, having a higher fps isn't going to improve your skill, if you need a higher fps to be a "sniper", you're doing it wrong. Learn about concealment, tactics, upgrading your rifle, I can outrange rifles shooting 325fps with one of mine shooting 280. FPS means sweet fúck all. Improve your game, upgrade the necessary parts and up your skill.

thermo

thermo wrote: »

as i have said in all the "we need higher fps limits for our guns" threads,
do not compensate for lack of skill with with higher power limits,
compensate for lack of (preceived) power with increasing your skill level, and upping your game.

Fionnacus wrote: »

The 1 Joule 328fps limit may be fine for all yee spray and pray players who only use AEGs and who don't care for accuracy or consistency, but, for us snipers and for players who actually want to develop their skills as marksmen with a consistent accurate powerful gun, it's useless. I suppose if you're an AEG user it makes sense to want the limit to remain the same, AEGs generally shoot 320fps in every country so an increase in power wouldn't benefit you, however having to deal with the added challenge of snipers capable of shooting out of the range of your AEGs I can imagine is a frightening prospect. The fact of the matter is, a sniper shooting at the same power as an AEG at a 20th the rof is useless and makes it impossible for snipers to partake in skirmishes and removes one of the aspects that makes airsofting fun. The next thing is that, if the limit was increased we would have a much greater selection of guns to buy, unless you can find other 1 joule guns in other countries (which is hard to do especially for snipers) you have to restrict yourself to the few guns that irish retailers stock, for example I would love to get a g&g kar98 rifle but they are all too powerful for ireland and downgrading it before it enters the country is very expensive. Another thing is everyone here seams to have this mind set that the law is the law and that is final, well guess what laws change, up until recently airsoft guns were completely banned and those laws changed, perhaps in a few years the same may be true for the fps limit. I could go on all day but this is getting too long.

my post is still true...................

jill_valentine

Fionnacus wrote: »

well guess what laws change, up until recently airsoft guns were completely banned and those laws changed, perhaps in a few years the same may be true for the fps limit. I could go on all day but this is getting too long.

You might want to do a bit of reading up on the actual details of this.

Fionnacus

jill_valentine wrote: »

You might want to do a bit of reading up on the actual details of this.

The exact details don't matter stop nit picking, the point remains the same laws change all the time

sliabh

Fionnacus wrote: »

The exact details don't matter stop nit picking, the point remains the same laws change all the time

Laws get changed when politicians feel then need to be. With full agendas in most Dail sessions it is unlikely that "airsofting snipers feel hard done by" is going to encourage many TDs to revisit a major piece of firearms legislation.

Fionnacus

Leftyflip wrote: »

Lol, a users first post bitching and moaning about the 1j law.
Pffft, having a higher fps isn't going to improve your skill, if you need a higher fps to be a "sniper", you're doing it wrong. Learn about concealment, tactics, upgrading your rifle, I can outrange rifles shooting 325fps with one of mine shooting 280. FPS means sweet fúck all. Improve your game, upgrade the necessary parts and up your skill.

Are you serious, take a .05 joule gun and see if your skill can still outmatch other, quality guns. The fact of the matter is that if your gun isn't able to shoot accurately then you wont hit your target consistently especially from long distances. No matter how skilled you're if your bbs curve, drop and travel randomly there's nothing you can do. The whole don't blame your tools argument is a stupid one, no matter how skilled you're you can only do so much with poor tools and equipment. And you would do much better with proper equipment regardless.

Witcher

People are never happy, there was no airsoft a few years ago now it's here and people are going on 'I needz more fps coz I cant shootz 6000 yardz'.

It will be a long time before that 1 joule law is changed, there's just too many legislative changes that need to be made on actual firearms before airsoft gets a look in.

Fionnacus

sliabh wrote: »

Laws get changed when politicians feel then need to be. With full agendas in most Dail sessions it is unlikely that "airsofting snipers feel hard done by" is going to encourage many TDs to revisit a major piece of firearms legislation.

Just because the laws wont get changed doesn't mean they shouldn't

Leftyflip

Fionnacus wrote: »

Are you serious, take a .05 joule gun and see if your skill can still outmatch other, quality guns. The fact of the matter is that if your gun isn't able to shoot accurately then you wont hit your target consistently especially from long distances. No matter how skilled you're if your bbs curve, drop and travel randomly there's nothing you can do. The whole don't blame your tools argument is a stupid one, no matter how skilled you're you can only do so much with poor tools and equipment. And you would do much better with proper equipment regardless.

You've missed my point completely sunshine.
Your opening example is ridiculous. We're not talking about 1/20th of a joule are we? We're talking about 1J. I have rifles where I can hit a target repeatedly at 60m with decent accuracy time after time after time. I've built custom bolt action rifles that were so quiet I was getting lads from 10 metres and they didn't have a clue where I was. I've been camo'd up so well, that with an AEG I was pegging people from very close distances and they couldn't make my position. Skill, not power

sliabh

Fionnacus wrote: »

Just because the laws wont get changed doesn't mean they shouldn't

Well unless you can come up with a compelling reason for why this should be a legislative priority for our TDs, then you are just being like those whiners you see on social media sites who post "I can't stand it any more"

Fionnacus

thermo wrote: »

my post is still true...................

In order for skill to be improved you need a consistent bases from which to build, no matter how skilled you are if you have an inconsistence weak gun you can't be an accurate shooter, go to the military and ask them why they invest so much money in expensive guns, if skills all they need why waste the money

Leftyflip

Fionnacus wrote: »

In order for skill to be improved you need a consistent bases from which to build, no matter how skilled you are if you have an inconsistence weak gun you can't be an accurate shooter, go to the military and ask them why they invest so much money in expensive guns, if skills all they need why waste the money

solution, build a consistent 1j gun. It's not rocket science. I'm perfectly happy with 1j. Simple fact is, the law won't be changed, we're lucky we have airsoft as it is now.

Also, I was deadly serious.

Fionnacus

Leftyflip wrote: »

You've missed my point completely sunshine.
Your opening example is ridiculous. We're not talking about 1/20th of a joule are we? We're talking about 1J. I have rifles where I can hit a target repeatedly at 60m with decent accuracy time after time after time. I've built custom bolt action rifles that were so quiet I was getting lads from 10 metres and they didn't have a clue where I was. I've been camo'd up so well, that with an AEG I was pegging people from very close distances and they couldn't make my position. Skill, not power

I used hyperbole in my opening sentence to stress a point, no matter how skilled you're the equipment you use affects the results you can produce. About the 60 meter thing, I highly doubt that's is true 60 meters is nearly 200ft, a 1 joule gun can't even shoot 200ft let alone hit a target at 200ft with accuracy, but let us say for arguments sake that you can shoot targets from 200ft, with a more powerful gun you might be able to shoot a target from 400ft then. But you're crazy there's a reason they invented snipers, they do a job that a machine gun cannot no matter how skilled the shooter, and it's the same for airsoft, don't you get it?