Harry Crosbie as much as boasts the tax payer will pay his debts

liammur

Tipp Man wrote: »

This is a bloody outrage

So basically he has had over 50% of his loans written off scot free for him and the rest of us are picking up the bill.

I puzzled - people have said that NAMA could make a profit over its lifetime, or break even anyway. My impression was that for it to make a profit would be largely dependant on how much received from the developer (or sales of his properties) over the price they paid for the loans. But we is now being said that that will be impossible as a developer only has to pay bag the NAMA amount

If this is correct we really have been taken from a complete ride

When they say the banks have been bailed out, they mean guys like this.

mistermouse

Did people honestly think things would change under Fine Gael, they're incredibly similiar to Fianna Fail, the difference this time is they are more tied to the current situation. The difference is most were happy to jump on the Fianna Fail feel good and greedy factor in the Fianna Fail times but anyone who actually voted for and believed that Fine Gael were going to suddenly stop or reneg on Fianna Fails agreements were deluded.

Fine Gael wanted power, said what sounded good and everyone jumped at it and gave them a massive majority.
Banks and people are as much responsible for stupidity in the boom times and the alternatives weren't great in the election, but anyone who voted in Labour or Fine Gael for change really shouldn't bother voting in future.
what hasn't changed in Ireland is the consistant voting in power hungry well paid politicians with no credibility and I doubt it will

Fine Gael/Labour could have brought in I am sure referendums in the upcoming elections to change alot, but did nothing of the sort in real terms.

Sand

@mistermouse

Did people honestly think things would change under Fine Gael, they're incredibly similiar to Fianna Fail, the difference this time is they are more tied to the current situation. The difference is most were happy to jump on the Fianna Fail feel good and greedy factor in the Fianna Fail times but anyone who actually voted for and believed that Fine Gael were going to suddenly stop or reneg on Fianna Fails agreements were deluded.

Well, theyre facing an entrenched, unaccountable permament civil service which couldnt care less whose been elected - as far as they are concerned they are in charge.

I'd say though that Fine Gael might have been better equipped to fight that entrenched opponent if Labour werent in government, and if Brutons leadership bid last year had succeeded. As it is, the "Up Mayo!!!" brigade are in the ascendancy and Kenny has to pay off his debts at the states expense.

AskMyChocolate

cyberhog wrote: »

NAMA chairman Frank Daly speaking before the the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform on Friday, 9 September 2011


On pursuing the full amount owed



On debt forgiveness




http://debates.oireachtas.ie/FIJ/2011/09/09/00003.asp

The only person in denial here is you, Sand, and honestly, I hope you never realise it. It's more fun watching you trying to prove your false assumptions.

Lol. I can only assume you are either a FG spin-doctor, a developer's solicitor or a PR lackey for NAMA. And you accuse other posters of being disingenuous.:pac:

By your own admission, developers will be "incentivised" to repay the portion of their outstanding debts,which the state has already paid through the recapitalisation of the banks.

Michael Noonan plucks an arbitrary figure of 5% out of the air, so, on past performance, it's safe to say it will be more generous to his inner-circle of privilege than this, but let's just go with the 5%.

So, Developer's borrowings :€600m
NAMA (state) pays :€300m
State pays bank :€300m
Developer pays NAMA :€300m
Developer pays bank :€300m (gets rebate of €15m)

NAMA declares profit of €285m. Taxpayer forgives €15m of debt. Developer walks off whistling with €15m of taxpayers money and goes for a pint with Frank Daly and Michael Noonan to have a quick circle-jerk and congratulate each other on a job well done.

That too difficult for you CyberHog? I don't think you're stupid, so I think you have a bit of a nerve calling other people disingenuous.

You can call corporate debt forgiveness anything you want. I suppose "incentivisation" is as good a word as any. It's such a positive word.

That's of course before we even get into what sort of preferential interest rates have been afforded to these developers. I wonder are they on interest only mortgages and have their variable rates been increased to the same levels as non-corporate borrowers.

Sand

Oh yeah Cyberhog:

NAMA Chief Executive, Brendan McDonagh.

He told the committee that developers are legally obliged to repay all €74.2 billion of the debt owing to the agency but said that property values have fallen by about 60 per cent in Ireland from peak.

Mr McDonagh told the committee that there was "no pot of gold" beyond the properties underlying the loans and that the agency would not take "gratuitous" court actions against developers and waste taxpayers' money when they had no further cash to repay loans.

"If we were to enforce against each and every debtor and sold the property securing the loans, we know that we would realise only the current value of the property collateral as the debtor has no other assets and the pursuit of debtors would not be economic," he said.

"Frankly, in the case of some debtors, this is all that we can ever hope to recover and, in some of these cases, we have initiated, or expect to initiate, enforcement, but rest assured we will pursue every penny where it makes economic sense to do so."

So yeah, about that - you're wrong. You've been wrong for very long time. But yeah, you're wrong. Wrong in a way that would actually serve as a definition of being wrong.

Welcome to NAMAland, where bankruptcy reform is resisted for the little guy, and where the developers wont even have to enter bankruptcy should the lads at NAMA take a shine to them. And given theyre paying out salaries of up to 200,000 Euro to them they really have taken a shine to them.

I guess everyone who was puzzled as to why others were so against NAMA are now having the dots connected for them.

cyberhog

Sand wrote: »

So yeah, about that - you're wrong.

Sand you are being disingenuous again. I'm not disagreeing with what Brendan McDonagh says. I think most of us know that in some cases NAMA will not recover the full amount owed, where I disagree with you is on your interpretation of NAMA's policy.

Sand wrote: »

NAMA is saying they are going to forgive, ignore and no longer pursue debt.

Sand wrote: »

It is not the policy of NAMA to pursue developers for the amount they owe,

You are completely wrong on both counts!

What the Irish Times article you linked failed to mention is that Brendan McDonagh told the Public Accounts Committee that NAMA will pursue all debts.

He told the Public Accounts Committee there was a misperception that debtors did not have to pay in full. He said NAMA would pursue all debts.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1026/nama-business.html

When McDonagh says there is a misperception among the public about NAMA's policy he's talking about YOU Sand.