Advise on barrel length

Tackleberrywho

Well all I need is the Barrel and cheek riser and I am there.
For Hunting Less is deffo more, but still want to be well capable of 400 yards to be very good at 200 & 300.

One point I did notice
On their 20" Tactical Rifles they are 1/12
and on the 18.5" Tactical Rifles they are 1/10

I have noticed that the .223's seem to be made in shorter barrels with faster twists too.
Could of course be mere coincidence

FISMA

ComeraghShooter,
What exactly is the issue, or is it a combination of: (a) the rifle is unbalanced, (b) the rifle is just too heavy, or (c) the rifle is too long and awkward.

I am a bit of a purist. I would never consider cutting a barrel. That's alright for me as in the states, rifles are easy to come by.

I just do not like doing anything to my rifle on which the engineers have not signed off. I have seen one too many times where changes in the field (no pun intended) to the original specs caused failure.

I am sure there are some fine machinists who are on par with the best of the factory boys, well able to cut, crown, and all. However, if it were me, I would either buy the custom rig or send the kit to the factory.

How heavy is the rifle? What about a counter weight in the back?

Given your range, if you are shooting for the pot, I doubt you'll have any problems. However, again, it is just against my religion to cut barrels.

Slan

Comeraghshooter

FISMA wrote: »

ComeraghShooter,
What exactly is the issue, or is it a combination of: (a) the rifle is unbalanced, (b) the rifle is just too heavy, or (c) the rifle is too long and awkward.

I am a bit of a purist. I would never consider cutting a barrel. That's alright for me as in the states, rifles are easy to come by.

I just do not like doing anything to my rifle on which the engineers have not signed off. I have seen one too many times where changes in the field (no pun intended) to the original specs caused failure.

I am sure there are some fine machinists who are on par with the best of the factory boys, well able to cut, crown, and all. However, if it were me, I would either buy the custom rig or send the kit to the factory.

How heavy is the rifle? What about a counter weight in the back?

Given your range, if you are shooting for the pot, I doubt you'll have any problems. However, again, it is just against my religion to cut barrels.

Slan

Hi FISMA

It's a combination of A & C, its front heavy and long and awkward.
I know im not going to safe much weight by chopping off 6 inches but i say the difference in balance should be big enough.

Not sure what the weight is but i don't think i would add a counter weight to it as it would defeat the purpose of trying to make the rifle light and compact.

CS

Tackleberrywho

Comeraghshooter wrote: »

Hi FISMA

It's a combination of A & C, its front heavy and long and awkward.
I know im not going to safe much weight by chopping off 4 inches but i say the difference in balance should be big enough.

Not sure what the weight is but i don't think i would add a counter weight to it as it would defeat the purpose of trying to make the rifle light and compact.

CS

I had a 26" barrel that was fluted and tapered. I had a 24" barrel fitted that was not fluted and has a wider profile, the weight of rig on the scales? Almost the same.
The difference in felt weight is amazing (law of the lever, especially with ASE S5 mod on end of barrel)

I was never more happy with a decesion I made

clivej

The RPA Woodland Stalker has been specifically designed for the stalker who wants a compact rifle without any compromise on accuracy. Extremely easy to carry the RPA Woodland Stalker has all the benefits associated with the RPA Hunter rifles plus the following additional features.
The RPA Woodland Stalker has a reduced 16” fluted barrel threaded for a sound moderator, which is included in the standard specification. Available in .308 Win and .243 Win calibers with a choice of 3 or 10 shot magazines.
About £3000

Comeraghshooter

^^
You would carry that all day, very tidy!

tac foley

There ya go - £3000 + a nice 1500eu Swarovski scope, plus a couple hundred eu bipod of course, and you're all set to go...

Hey, it's only money, right?

Makes my $89.95 K31 + SP mount and rings [$75] + Weaver K4 [$25] look quite a bargain.

tac

virminhunter

like clivej's post here's one that caught my eye, its a gunsite ruger scout rifle

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTrWAr4hLBA

clivej

virminhunter wrote: »

like clivej's post here's one that caught my eye, its a gunsite ruger scout rifle

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTrWAr4hLBA

Great vid now included

Tackleberrywho

Neither legal here though.
Both shorter than 19.7"

dev110

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Neither legal here though.
Both shorter than 19.7"

I think what they are trying to show is that accuracy isn't lost when you cut down the barrel.

The video will tell you if you would watch it :rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

dev110 wrote: »

I think what they are trying to show is that accuracy isn't lost when you cut down the barrel.

The video will tell you if you would watch it :rolleyes:

Rifle can't be legally purchased here.....
We all know accuracy is not lost over medium to short distance chopping a barrel, fps is lost and Energy.

dev110

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I would go no shorter than 22" on a .223.
I have my .223 24" but it is custom, the factory 26" was accurate but the Custom 24" barrel is just as accurate if not more, and much easier handle.

I have my .308 20" but considering re-barrelling it 22" for increased accuracy

The Tikkas are some of the shorter barrels




Tikka Barrel length
T3 570 mm (22 7/16")
T3 MT 510 mm (20")
T3 Mag 620 mm (24 3/8" )

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Or ~ 2-3 inch more drop @300 yards when 20" vs 26"

For Foxing I would not care, for bunnies I would want at least 24"
For Punching paper .223 then 28"

Ezridax wrote: »

Correct.

Section 12(A)(1) & (2) (65/2006 amended) refers to shortening a barrel to less than 50cm as being an offence unless done by a registered firearms dealer to replace a fault with the existing barrel. Because you want it shorter than 50cm (20") is not a good reason, and you will fall foul of the law.

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Rifle can't be legally purchased here.....
We all know accuracy is not lost over medium to short distance chopping a barrel, fps is lost and Energy.

So your gone back to reciting things that have already been posted on this thread as per usual

From previous posts it seems like you want to re-barrel your .308 for increased accuracy but in the last post you say accuracy is not lost over medium and short distances chopping the barrel so why then are you going to re-barrel your .308 if you won't get any extra accuracy

Sparks

Ezridax wrote: »

Section 12(A)(1) & (2) (65/2006 amended) refers to shortening a barrel to less than 50cm as being an offence unless done by a registered firearms dealer to replace a fault with the existing barrel. Because you want it shorter than 50cm (20") is not a good reason, and you will fall foul of the law.

Not to mention that that exemption says the dealer must immediately build the barrel back up above 50cm after cutting it down past it (it's rather quiet on the technical point of how the dealer is meant to safely do that...)

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Rifle can't be legally purchased here.....

That's the thing. We don't know that for sure.

• We know, because it's clear in the Act, that you can't cut down the barrel to less than 50cm from more than 50cm.
• We don't know if your licence counts as legal authority under the act to possess a rifle with a barrel shorter than 50cm.

The latter is a nasty grey area in the firearms act, and will need a test case in the high court to set precedent, at a minimum. And people can say what they wish on that - the AG, the Minister, the Commissioner or any Garda member included - and it won't matter at all. It's in the Act, and the Act trumps all of those - as I understand it, only the interpretation of the Act by a Judge could settle the matter without rewriting the law.

And no, the existance of licences for such firearms does not prove anything, as a licence issued for a firearm by a Garda can be invalid quiet easily, and the Act says the onus is on the applicant to get the right licence, not the Garda to issue the right licence - so if you got a licence for a new centerfire pistol from your local brother-in-law Super for example, it wouldn't be worth the paper it was printed on because it would be invalid under the Act.

CJhaughey

If you have seen some of the new PSE stocks you may have gone for one of them, they are extremely lightweight and stiff.
That and a modest barrel chop and a light weight mod would probably make a big difference to your rifle.
Those tactical stocks are fine if you don't have to carry the rifle.

Tackleberrywho

dev110 wrote: »

So your gone back to reciting things that have already been posted on this thread as per usual

From previous posts it seems like you want to re-barrel your .308 for increased accuracy but in the last post you say accuracy is not lost over medium and short distances chopping the barrel so why then are you going to re-barrel your .308 if you won't get any extra accuracy

I mentioned I re-barrelled my .223 for increased accuracy, and also shortened it and accuracy was not affected.

I mentioned I am going to re-barrel my .308 for increased accuracy as Trueflite barrels are better than factory barrels.

It assumed that most people would have understood that.......

I mentioned that sub 19.7" Factory Rifles are not legal here so no point in looking at them.

The OP asked for advise on barrel length, that is all I gave..
and as far as I can see he is happy with my advise and is taking it on board.

dev110

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I mentioned I re-barrelled my .223 for increased accuracy, and also shortened it and accuracy was not affected.

I mentioned I am going to re-barrel my .308 for increased accuracy as Trueflite barrels are better than factory barrels.

It assumed that most people would have understood that.......

I mentioned that sub 19.7" Factory Rifles are not legal here so no point in looking at them.

The OP asked for advise on barrel length, that is all I gave..
and as far as I can see he is happy with my advise and is taking it on board.

Basically you are after saying that you spent money on re-barreling and it didn't improve accuracy?? What was the point in re-barreling then?

Sparks

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I mentioned that sub 19.7" Factory Rifles are not legal here so no point in looking at them.

Once again, we don't know that.
Nobody does, unfortunately.

Tackleberrywho

dev110 wrote: »

Basically you are after saying that you spent money on re-barreling and it didn't improve accuracy?? What was the point in re-barreling then?

I said a shorter barrel did not affect accuracy.
I rebarrelled my rifle to take rounds from 50-75 grains and sing with all of them.
Which it does.

The Old barrel only liked 55grains which are not suitable for shooting past 400 yards due to a low BC.

dev110

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I said a shorter barrel did not affect accuracy.
I rebarrelled my rifle to take rounds from 50-75 grains and sing with all of them.
Which it does.

The Old barrel only liked 55grains which are not suitable for shooting past 400 yards due to a low BC.

At what distance 25 yards???:rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

dev110 wrote: »

At what distance 25 yards???:rolleyes:

You obviously have an issue with all my posts so there is no point in myself engaging with you.

I do not want to get another infraction for replying off topic, I also do not want to derail a decent thread with good pointers.

EOM.

dev110

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

You obviously have an issue with all my posts so there is no point in myself engaging with you.

I do not want to get another infraction for replying off topic, I also do not want to derail a decent thread with good pointers.

EOM.

Maybe I do and maybe I don't.
No body here would like to see you get another infraction and maybe banned :rolleyes:

poulo6.5

clivej wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTrWAr4hLBA

Great vid now included

i love that scout rifle where do i get one:D:D:D:D:D

virminhunter

poulo6.5 wrote: »

i love that scout rifle where do i get one:D:D:D:D:D

their not cheap, the concept of them appeals to me though, if you could get a gunsmith to put a forward rail on the rifle and shorten down the barrel you'd be there:)

http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=971.0
http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=1298.0

Sparks

virminhunter wrote: »

their not cheap, the concept of them appeals to me though, if you could get a gunsmith to put a forward rail on the rifle and shorten down the barrel you'd be there:)

Think there was slightly more intended in the scout rifle design than that
The steyr scout is the only one I've ever held personally - a lovely rifle, really well balanced and a nice clever stock design. Only fired it the once though, in .270, and managed to give myself a right dose of scope eye in the process (the owner had opted for a normal scope instead of the forward scope the original design had in mind).

virminhunter

Sparks wrote: »

Think there was slightly more intended in the scout rifle design than that
The steyr scout is the only one I've ever held personally - a lovely rifle, really well balanced and a nice clever stock design. Only fired it the once though, in .270, and managed to give myself a right dose of scope eye in the process (the owner had opted for a normal scope instead of the forward scope the original design had in mind).

ah yeah, but if you did your homework picked the right rifle, caliber and optics got some work done on it, once you stay within the outlined perameters, it'd be a scout rifle like. Would you agree?

tac foley

Sparks wrote: »

Think there was slightly more intended in the scout rifle design than that
The steyr scout is the only one I've ever held personally - a lovely rifle, really well balanced and a nice clever stock design. Only fired it the once though, in .270, and managed to give myself a right dose of scope eye in the process (the owner had opted for a normal scope instead of the forward scope the original design had in mind).

Now THAT was what I was going to post! You must have read my mind. The Steyr Scout has been out a good few years now, and is a proven winner in the accuracy stakes. I've only fired one in .308Win, and that was a mite loud and kicky as it's quite light, but five consecutive shots of the Federal 168gr stuff went into about an inch at a 100m, even with the rather odd-looking x10 LER scope. Lots of good planning went into this gun, mostly, I'm told, by the late and greatly missed Jeff Cooper, whose initial concept it was.

If the somewhat ding-dong debate could be settled about what is legal in the RoI regarding barrel length, then it would make an ideal on-the-hill gun in any of the available calibres - at less than a third of the cost of the RPA item.

There are two in my local dealers - both in .308Win, and both PX'd for the so-called 'Covert' version of my pal Ewan Campbell's DTA SRS bull-pup rifle.

tac

Sparks

tac foley wrote: »

If the somewhat ding-dong debate could be settled about what is legal in the RoI regarding barrel length, then it would make an ideal on-the-hill gun in any of the available calibres - at less than a third of the cost of the RPA item.

The law shouldn't even be a problem with the Steyr - barrel length is quoted as being 50.8cm (I didn't have a tape measure with me when I shot it, but that sounds about right). So no issues over barrel length.

And it is a lovely bit of engineering, though some might not like the polymer stock, the luddites

poulo6.5

i have the steyr scout elite in .308 with a conventional scope on it and i love it. great rifle to shoot and easily handled, being the elite it has a heave barrel but the standard steyr is a lovely lite rifle and the shoot as good as my heavy one. also designed by cooper,

a great all rounder i think

willcork

Hi all,
I have a remington 700 sps tactical in .223 its got a 1 in 9 twist just like the OP but it has a 20" barrel.
I have an ase utra jet z cqb moderator fitted and find it balances nicely.
I only use Hornady 75gr match and manage sub moa groups, so my recomendation would be to do it if you want to you'll still have an excellent rifle, I would be inclined to wait and see about changing the mod though, you might find it balances well with the one you have once the barrel is cut.