UPC Laser card charge problem

java

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

Ok so i have a letter ready to go to UPC and BOI demanded that i recieve an update should i not get any help on monday.

Do you know for definite that the UPC monies taken went towards your parents bill? It might just be someone using your card and not related to your past history with UPC at all. My friends laser card was used recently by someone to pay their M50 toll - I kid you not!!

mlumley

This should not happen at all. I have been phoned by 3 regarding me not having funds to cover a DD, the first time they asked me to pay by lazer. It also happened again 2 days ago, bank had taken bank charges out and left me short of funds. They asked me for my card No: both times. They didnt just go and take it, they did the right thing and asked me the second time, which is how it should be done. I know a lot of people say bad about 3, but they run the payment system as it should be.

OP, go ask for a charge back. Bo**ck UPC, tell them its pay today or court.

Good luck.

BrianD

wmpdd3 wrote: »

With respect, I completely disagree with the post above. BOI is at fault here. The OP has a contract with the bank to provide a banking service and a debit card service. They have broken the regulators rules in relation to the process of using that card for payments.

Just because you used your card in the local shop a few times, doesn't mean they can charge you for a weeks shopping when ever they like.

I would demand charge back, nothing less. Unauthorised charge on the account, doesn't matter if it is UPC or a Nigerian prince.

I mean its a weeks wages that are missing. I fit was me I'd be chained to the counter in the branch.

I firmly disagree. The BOI have acted correctly so far.

The bank issues a card so the customer can use it when and where they like at their discretion and within the T&C's. They are not there to supervise every transaction made and verify with the customer that this is what they wanted to do. Naturally, they have to deal with reported fraud seriously.

But we have no confirmed case of fraud here. the OPs card has been used previously to pay UPC in the past. You can understand why the bank aren't going either treat the transaction as fraud or are willing to reverse it where there's a prior transaction history there. I'm sure they get this all the time. Plus UPC has to have the security credentials to charge the card in the first place.

It is straightforward to me that the likely explaination is that either through the fault of the OP or UPC the card is a method of payment against an account. He'll need to follow it up with them and the bank as a last resort.

Of course there's always the option that the banks or the billing company's software has gone bananas. It could be a "skim" but it's unlikely as the payment is for a service at a physical address.

Heart Break Kid

The bank issues a card so the customer can use it when and where they like at their discretion and within the T&C's, They are not there to supervise every transaction made and verify with the customer that this is what they wanted to do

http://www.itsyourmoney.ie/iym/problemswithcards

In order to issue these cards, your provider signs up to these rules and they must investigate any transaction you dispute.

Im not asking them to babysit my account .Im disputing a transaction of 365 euro. I asked them to investigate the transaction. They have declined to investigate so far. I am asking for a charge back. They are capable of doing it but are so far refusing to do so.

@Millicent; I work as a 3rd party reseller so i have no concrete direct links with UPC

BrianD

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

http://www.itsyourmoney.ie/iym/problemswithcards

Im not asking them to babysit my account .Im disputing a transaction of 365 euro. I asked them to investigate the transaction. They have declined to investigate so far. I am asking for a charge back. They are capable of doing it but are so far refusing to do so.

@Millicent; I work as a 3rd party reseller so i have no concrete direct links with UPC

You still don't get it. Go to UPC and get it sorted. By all means lodge a dispute with the bank but I would suspect that they are unlikely to initiate a chargeback for a service that you have bought before without you coming up with a good reason.

Thoie

BrianD wrote: »

You still don't get it. Go to UPC and get it sorted. By all means lodge a dispute with the bank but I would suspect that they are unlikely to initiate a chargeback for a service that you have bought before without you coming up with a good reason.

From IPSO:
http://www.ipso.ie/section/section/YourRightsasaPayer

If it is established that an unauthorised direct debit was charged to your account, you are guaranteed an immediate refund by your bank of the amount so charged where you notify your bank without undue delay on becoming aware of the unauthorised direct debit, and in any event no later than 13 months after the date of debiting of such direct debit to your account

I'm too busy to look for the link for remote debit card transactions at the moment, but the same is true. The agreement is that the bank should refund you immediately, and the bank's fraud department follows up with the company that took the money.

Similar happened to me recently with another company. Initially my bank said I needed to talk to the company. This was difficult, as I didn't have an account with that company. Found the piece above, rang the bank back, spoke to the same lady again. She wasn't aware of that agreement, so she got back onto HQ, pushed on my behalf, and the money was back in my account that afternoon.

BrianD

Thoie wrote: »

From IPSO:
http://www.ipso.ie/section/section/YourRightsasaPayer



I'm too busy to look for the link for remote debit card transactions at the moment, but the same is true. The agreement is that the bank should refund you immediately, and the bank's fraud department follows up with the company that took the money.

Similar happened to me recently with another company. Initially my bank said I needed to talk to the company. This was difficult, as I didn't have an account with that company. Found the piece above, rang the bank back, spoke to the same lady again. She wasn't aware of that agreement, so she got back onto HQ, pushed on my behalf, and the money was back in my account that afternoon.

The transaction from what the OP has said is a charge to his/her debit card. A card that was charged in the past for the same service. I have recurring charges on my debit card for some services. There is nothing to suggest fraud until the OP finds out what has actually happened.

Anyway, I'm sure that he'll establish what happened by contacting UPC and pursuing it with them.

There is a lesson - always exercise caution when you (or another) used your card to pay for something.

Thoie

BrianD wrote: »

The transaction from what the OP has said is a charge to his/her debit card. A card that was charged in the past for the same service. I have recurring charges on my debit card for some services. There is nothing to suggest fraud until the OP finds out what has actually happened.

The previous time his card was used, a service was received by his parents in return for the payment. This time neither he nor his parents have received any benefit. Can you not see the difference?

Virgin Media: Jason

Hi Heart Break Kid

Please PM me your contact details and I will get our fraud team to call you immediately

Thanks

Jason

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

Hi.

So on the 04/10/11 UPC withdrew 365.63 euro from my laser card account.
I do not have a UPC account nor do i have any standing order or direct debit to pay UPC. They just took my monies. I never gave authorisation for them nor anyone else to take it either.

I could not find out if it was UPC till the 06/10/11.

I have paid UPC with my laser card in the past to pay my parents bill on a few occasions. I have checked with my folks to see if they have used my details in the past and they have no,t nor has any money been paid into their UPC account.

UPC simply took the money. I have been onto UPC already and they have no idea why they would take money from my account. They don't understand why they would take money. They told me that they would have their financial team get in touch with me but i haven't had any word on when i get my money back.

This messes my month up a tad bit due to trying to plan a few things myself.

If i remember correctly a UPC rep floated around boards.ie , maybe he cold help if someone could direct him my way.

Thanks in advance

Heart Break Kid

Thanks jason, just sent you a PM there. Hope i can get this solved

Heart Break Kid

BrianD wrote: »

I have recurring charges on my debit card for some services. There is nothing to suggest fraud until the OP finds out what has actually happened.

There is a lesson - always exercise caution when you (or another) used your card to pay for something.

1st : Thats called a direct debit or standing order: you have given permission on a constant basis for various companies to take money out at a so and so time.
I have made no such deal .
2: There is no lesson. That's a given.

BrianD

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

1st : Thats called a direct debit or standing order: you have given permission on a constant basis for various companies to take money out at a so and so time.
I have made no such deal .
2: There is no lesson. That's a given.

Well I'm happy to see that the UPC chap has stepped in to resolve this for you.

But just on the 1 and 2. A charge to your card is different to a direct debit (variable amounts) or standing order (fixed amounts). You said you had used your card to pay your parents bills before (not DD or SO). I can have a card attached to a service that be periodically charged e.g. on iTunes where I might have one off purchases or a recurring charges for a subscription. The recurring charge can often be a simple permission to charge the card until I say no. Not the same as setting up a DD (but effectively the same result).

The lesson? I would have thought you'd have learned that by now.

CramCycle

BrianD wrote: »

The lesson? I would have thought you'd have learned that by now.

Whats the lesson, I also do not know what it is?

Hope this is resolved quick, nice to hear an update later on, I don't blame UPC, mistakes happen, I'd only blame them if they are not quick to resolve it, maybe a months free viewing as an apology

Heart Break Kid

BrianD wrote: »

Well I'm happy to see that the UPC chap has stepped in to resolve this for you.

So got a call back from gent at UPC, he told me to go back to the bank and follow it up with them.Not really stepping up but whichever. I just want it sorted.

Returned to BOI branch, told them i want a charge back on my card asap.
They first said you have to contact UPC in regards a refund.
Explained situation and how money has not gone to my parents UPC account.

She asked a few questions to see if i was in a customer dispute with UPC. I told her NO.
She filled out the charge back form. Told me to expect refund within 10 days or to be contacted within the next 3 working days to confirm i am being refunded.

I dont mind mistakes just a pain that i was being told my my bank to do something and then being told by a company to do something else.

Thoie

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

She filled out the charge back form. Told me to expect refund within 10 days or to be contacted within the next 3 working days to confirm i am being refunded.

I dont mind mistakes just a pain that i was being told my my bank to do something and then being told by a company to do something else.

When it happened to me, that was the point where I got annoyed and told them plainly that I was guaranteed an immediate refund, not one in 10 days time. In my situation (different bank, different company as I'd stated), it suddenly went from a refund sometime in the next few weeks to a refund that afternoon. If you're stuck for the cash, point that out to them and point out that their internal processes are nothing to do with you.

I also stopped dealing with the company very early on, as my only relationship in the triangle was with the bank, and the bank allowed the unauthorised transaction.

BrianD

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

So got a call back from gent at UPC, he told me to go back to the bank and follow it up with them.Not really stepping up but whichever. I just want it sorted.

Returned to BOI branch, told them i want a charge back on my card asap.
They first said you have to contact UPC in regards a refund.
Explained situation and how money has not gone to my parents UPC account.

She asked a few questions to see if i was in a customer dispute with UPC. I told her NO.
She filled out the charge back form. Told me to expect refund within 10 days or to be contacted within the next 3 working days to confirm i am being refunded.

I dont mind mistakes just a pain that i was being told my my bank to do something and then being told by a company to do something else.

So UPC weren't able to tell you where the money went to?

Funny, I was in the bank today and a guy walked up to the next hatch and said he wanted to cancel a UPC DD and the bank told him go and contact UPC.

I'm surprised that the UPC rep here doesn't seem to have been able to help you more. If money goes in they should be able to track it to an account (the right one or the wrong one)

Is it my imagination or did the title of this thread change?

Heart Break Kid

So UPC weren't able to tell you where the money went to?

The first time no, They said there was no way of tracking the transaction via my statement reference number nor my card number.

However when i got a call again for the same guy he said they had found an account that the money went. For data protection they can't tell me who which is a pain but im not too bothered

I was in the bank today and a guy walked up to the next hatch and said he wanted to cancel a UPC DD and the bank told him go and contact UPC

Its can be done via the bank, or 365 banking which is easy as ticking a box.

Is it my imagination or did the title of this thread change?

yep, assuming mods. My title was to attract attention by being dramatic.
This i suppose is more subtle.

Either way gone wing it for at least 3-5 days and if no result ill go looking again.

Oryx

Its definitely the bank that cancels DDs not the company. Its very straightforward you just sign a form in the branch and it takes effect immediately.

Aishae

Or cancel it in online banking

BrianD

Not entirely correct - for good order you also need to contact and cancel the DD with the company you deal with.

If you set up a DD then you've agreed to pay that company on an ongoing basis. You need to cancel the agreement with the company you agreed to pay in the first place.

Otherwise they will continue to request payment from your bank, it gets refused and you may incur charges. If they are not getting paid as agreed then it could escalate into a bad debts issue.

Remember with a DD you have given permission to a third party to extract variable amounts from your account. However, if you look at the guidelines they seem to contradict each other.

daheff

Aishae wrote: »

Or cancel it in online banking

i already suggested this...but it looks like the fee was debited to a laser card and is not a direct debit

OP maybe you can clarify this point 100% please?

Millicent

He has already said he has no direct debit with the company, only that he has previously used the card on his parents' behalf in the past. I wonder why UPC can't reverse the payment, seeing as they acknowledge it's on somebody else's account? Surely they could refund the money if the bank is not moving quickly enough.

Aishae

I once made an insurance payment with lazer. Which I later spotted was on my list of direct debits! They had not presented a recent charge. But it was on the list andvi really don't know how as I never set up a Dd and only paid a one off over the phone payment. They never made additional charges but theoretically they could have So regardless of the op not having set up a Dd it is worth checking if UPC is on the account Dd list

Heart Break Kid

Ok so update.

Bank of Ireland got back to me.

They stated that they cannot issue a charge back to me as i have made payments in the past.
They told me to go to UPC and demand a refund qouting an acquired reference number.
I was told that if UPC refuse a refund then get a email/letter stating why they won't refund me and bring that to the bank. So sent a mail back to UPC asking for a response to this. I have a feeling they are just goiing to send me back to the bank

Im ok for now but in around 7 days im going to need that money

GRRR feel like I'm a tennis ball.

Millicent

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

Ok so update.

Bank of Ireland got back to me.

They stated that they cannot issue a charge back to me as i have made payments in the past.
They told me to go to UPC and demand a refund qouting an acquired reference number.
I was told that if UPC refuse a refund then get a email/letter stating why they won't refund me and bring that to the bank. So sent a mail back to UPC asking for a response to this. I have a feeling they are just goiing to send me back to the bank

Im ok for now but in around 7 days im going to need that money

GRRR feel like I'm a tennis ball.

God, that's fierce annoying. Why not PM the UPC rep that made contact here, save getting bounced around the customer service in UPC? To be fair, I don't know why UPC didn't just refund you when they acknowledged the problem. I also think your bank are bloody useless. :mad:

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

Heart Break Kid

Ok so UPC got back to me and told me they were in contact with my bank to give me a refund. ill be watching my statement for update

Heart Break Kid

Ok bank fraud team called. They told me to fill out the forms id already done on day 2 of this. The same ones BOI college green said i wouldn't need. So just going through motions again.

Millicent

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

Ok bank fraud team called. They told me to fill out the forms id already done on day 2 of this. The same ones BOI college green said i wouldn't need. So just going through motions again.

That's just annoying. Have you been back in touch with the UPC rep here about getting a refund? I don't see why it can't be done at their end.

Thoie

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

Ok bank fraud team called. They told me to fill out the forms id already done on day 2 of this. The same ones BOI college green said i wouldn't need. So just going through motions again.

Seriously, call your local branch, tell them you need the money now, and point out that this thing of "you've paid them previously so it's legit" is rubbish. Over the years I've paid for utilities that I no longer subscribe to - it doesn't make my bank account a free for all for any company that messes up their internal data.

Point out that you've been sent around in circles for 12 days now. It's now 9 working days since you notified them of the issue, and you expect the money tomorrow, the 10th working day. If they even mention speaking to UPC again, inform them that you have no relationship with UPC, and therefore no need to talk to them.