Permaban from AH - unfair and unjustifiable

darkman2

I have just been banned from AH for this thread which was only a joke

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056412863


Now, I don't mind the thread was closed. Obviously the mod did not find it humorous. However the ban is totally unjustified. If you read the thread you will clearly see the mod that banned me (KeithM89) getting involved in the thread - telling me if I made him laugh he would keep it open after 5 minutes. Instead of closing it he was participating in it. I pointed this out via PM after he threatened to ban me that he would be hypocritical to do so. If he thought that badly of it he should have closed it immediately.

Besides the fact it was only a joke. I don't mind the thread was closed, fair enough. But in no way would anyone looking at that thread, clearly a joke, think that a permaban is justified.

I would like some assistance from other mods on this as it is completely unfair. I would urge a c-mod to read the thread and see why the mod's behaviour here, IMO, is an issue.

I don't want any mod in trouble but the thread was strung along here when it should have been closed straight away if it was a problem.


P.S I can no longer see the thread as it has been deleted. So I contacted KeithM89 via PM - I will put my PM's here for my own fairness.

KeithM89 wrote:

darkman2 wrote:

Fair enough, i wouldnt consider lifting it anyway.
Il let the cmods know so you wont have to be kept waiting.

Where is the thread? I need to be able to see the thread and so do others.

Actually its been deleted because mods of the forums complained people would start trolling their forums. Il give you a copy of the posts if you need.
The CMods/admins can still see the thread

This is important because if mods are being over zealous then that does not look good for boards.ie and I love boards but, really, this is rediculous.

randylonghorn

Hi darkman2,

I'll admit to some degree of puzzlement here tbh.

This is your seventh ban from AH, almost universally for trolling in one form or another.

Bans from AH tend to increase in length with each consecutive ban, and the last two were for 6 months each, which in itself was a clear indication that the next one was likely to be a permaban.

To-night you started a thread in AH with the following opening post:

darkman2 wrote: »

Need some advice about trolling

....so I was thinking I might troll a few forums - maybe the pleasantly plump people's forum or as it is politically correctly known - "Beer, Guts and Receding Hairlines"....so I need some advice or the best method of attack. The do's and don'ts. Thanks. Examples would be helpful. Don't tell the mods.

Here's where my puzzlement arises:

1) Given your history of trolling AH, and given that OP, how did you *not* expect to be banned?

2) Given that this is your 7th ban from AH, and given that the last two were for 6 months each, how did you *not* expect it to be a permaban?



(And before you say "because it was only a joke", it has been made quite clear to you before, including by g'em in your last DRP thread here, that "it was only a joke" does not constitute some kind of miraculous "Get out of jail free!" card.)

darkman2

randylonghorn wrote: »

Hi darkman2,

I'll admit to some degree of puzzlement here tbh.

This is your seventh ban from AH, almost universally for trolling in one form or another.

Bans from AH tend to increase in length with each consecutive ban, and the last two were for 6 months each, which in itself was a clear indication that the next one was likely to be a permaban and not a 6 month ban either. I don't believe boards allows individual mods go around like little hitlers. Maybe now is the time to prove this is not a club imbeciles tbh. No way should I be banned for that. No way.

To-night you started a thread in AH with the following opening post:






Here's where my puzzlement arises:

1) Given your history of trolling AH, and given that OP, how did you *not* expect to be banned?

2) Given that this is your 7th ban from AH, and given that the last two were for 6 months each, how did you *not* expect it to be a permaban?



(And before you say "because it was only a joke", it has been made quite clear to you before, including by g'em in your last DRP thread here, that "it was only a joke" does not constitute some kind of miraculous "Get out of jail free!" card.)

You say it's my 7th ban from AH - yeah? I have over 7,000 posts. So that is 1 in every 1,000 posts I have been banned.

You did not read the thread. Read the thread. Right, thanks for your reply. In response - I am not an idiot. Fair enough my post was ill advised. Yes I accept that. But you do not deal with the substantive point here. The mod should have closed the thread straight away - yes or no? But he/she did not.And I want that mod held accountable for his stupid action (the 5 minute to say something funny thing) - if there is something wrong with the thread, as a mod, you close the thing - not leave it open.
They took part in it to make an even bigger idiot of me. Now do you think a permaban is warranted in this case!? A ban I would gladly accept - but not a permanent ban.

And I want the mod accountable here aswell.

I am not letting people say I have been banned so many times and letting the mod away with it. I know cronyism when I see it.The mod even told me he was "discussing a ban" with other mods. How is that suppose to make me feel? Is this acceptable carry on? I think that is insidious bullying of a member. And I won't take that without saying something.

And I don't give a damn if I get a site ban - if I feel I am the victim of bullying I am going to say it - mods or no mods.

randylonghorn

darkman2 wrote: »

You say it's my 7th ban from AH - yeah? I have over 7,000 posts. So that is 1 in every 1,000 posts I have been banned.

Darkman, as pointed out to you by an admin in one of your previous DRP threads, your number of posts doesn't make you immune. While a poster with a high number of posts and a solid track record of contributing to the site may get some small leeway if s/he loses the run of him/herself on a once-off, there isn't an acceptable ban : post ratio. There are ban : post ratios which I would consider more unacceptable though, and looking at your history generally but in AH in particular, I regret to say that I would slot yours into that category.

darkman2 wrote: »

You did not read the thread.

I read the thread. I read it several times, actually.

darkman2 wrote: »

Read the thread. Right, thanks for your reply. In response - I am not an idiot. Fair enough my post was ill advised. Yes I accept that. But you do not deal with the substantive point here.

Actually, I think I *am* dealing with the substantive point. To my mind, the substantive point is that someone who has been banned from AH (and elsewhere) on a number of occasions for trolling then decided to start a thread encouraging people to discuss the best way to troll and asking them to share examples of trolling.

As if we didn't have enough trolls on Boards without conducting masterclasses in the art!

That in my opinion is the substantive issue. We then come to your other points re: subordinate issues.

darkman2 wrote: »

The mod should have closed the thread straight away - yes or no?

I probably would have, in fairness. And then banned you. Same end result as to the ban. Which leads me to the conclusion that the ban was correct.

darkman2 wrote: »

But he/she did not.And I want that mod held accountable for his stupid action (the 5 minute to say something funny thing) - if there is something wrong with the thread, as a mod, you close the thing - not leave it open.
They took part in it to make an even bigger idiot of me.

I think that is a little harsh. He did tell you clearly in his first post that others had been banned for the same kind of carry-on, and I would read his post more as "give me a damn good reason why I shouldn't apply the same standards to you!", albeit framed in a slightly humorous fashion.

That said, while I'm a great believer in the use of humour as a modding tool myself, I don't think I would have used it in this instance or in the same way. I will yield your point to you to that extent, but I don't see that it affects the substantive issue as I have dealt with it above.

darkman2 wrote: »

A ban I would gladly accept - but not a permanent ban.

As pointed out to you in one of your previous DRP threads, it isn't for you to decide what you would consider an appropriate sanction.

darkman2 wrote: »

I am not letting people say I have been banned so many times and letting the mod away with it. I know cronyism when I see it. The mod even told me he was "discussing a ban" with other mods. How is that suppose to make me feel? Is this acceptable carry on? I think that is insidious bullying of a member. And I won't take that without saying something.

I don't think it was meant to make you feel anything in particular.

It's quite normal practice for a mod to check his / her head with co-mods on a decision, especially where the sanction involved is significant.

It's actually done to ensure that the member is being fairly treated. I fail to see how it qualifies as cronyism or bullying.

darkman2 wrote: »

And I don't give a damn if I get a site ban - if I feel I am the victim of bullying I am going to say it - mods or no mods.

One final point: I took some time to check your history and to read back over your previous DRP threads before responding to this thread.

They tend to follow a similar pattern, with the same elements being advanced in your defence:

(a) your post / thread was "just a joke";

(b) you have a certain number of posts, and in some way that should grant you immunity;

(c) all your previous bans were unfair, and were the result of mods provoking you / bullying you, and as such they shouldn't be taken into account; and

(d) you are once again the victim of a conspiracy of bullying in this instance.

At no time do you seem to have been prepared to take on board the reasons being explained to you as to why you had been banned, or why your posting behaviour was disrupting forums and irritating users and mods alike. Perhaps if you had been prepared to listen to and reflect upon the feedback you were being given, and to learn something from it, we would not be having this discussion?


I'm sorry, but I don't see any legitimate reason for overturning this ban, and as such it is upheld.

You are of course free to request an admin to review it if you wish.

darkman2

randylonghorn wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I don't see any legitimate reason for overturning this ban, and as such it is upheld.

You are of course free to request an admin to review it if you wish.

No bloody suprise there. Your part of a club. I want the ban lessened (not overturned). Anybody in their right mind would see my case here. I want an admin to review this please as clearly I am not going to get anywhere with your clique here.

I want an admin to read the thread. I want them to see what was going on there please.

Randylonghorn you did NOT read that thread. I want that thread available to me so I can quote from it. It was taken down after I started this thread. That is wrong. I know why it was taken down. And it is not for "oh someone might troll" - bull****.

This is disgraceful what is going on here. It really is. I am being bullied on this forum by mods. I want an admin to look at that thread and think about it seriously.

oscarBravo

Prima facie, you have six previous bans from After Hours, as well as a number of others. You were banned this time for talking about trolling other forums (something we take very seriously), after previous bans for trolling. You claim you were joking, but have been told before that such a claim isn't a retrospective excuse for trolling.

Now you're trying to claim that it's not your behaviour that has gotten you banned, but a clique of bullies.

I'm having a great deal of trouble thinking of a reason why I should rescind or reduce this ban, to be honest.

darkman2

oscarBravo wrote: »

Prima facie, you have six previous bans from After Hours, as well as a number of others. You were banned this time for talking about trolling other forums (something we take very seriously), after previous bans for trolling. You claim you were joking, but have been told before that such a claim isn't a retrospective excuse for trolling.

Now you're trying to claim that it's not your behaviour that has gotten you banned, but a clique of bullies.

I'm having a great deal of trouble thinking of a reason why I should rescind or reduce this ban, to be honest.

Hi, thank you for giving me a little bit of leeway to explain.

Firstly it was only a joke. I did not know it would get that sort of reaction. I just thought it would be a fun thread.

My case is the mod should have closed the thread straight away. Ironically I was just about to edit the OP and delete the title when it was closed. I can't prove that but that is what I was doing. I am not asking for a ban to be lifted. I would just appreciate an acknowledgement that the mod also made a mistake. I have no issue whatsoever with KevinM89 and don't want to make an issue of it. All I am hoping for is a timed ban - not a permaban. I made a mistake. I know in future not to post a thread about trolling (even though it was not meant to be serious). Sorry for that.

A permaban is too harsh IMHO.

darkman2

So is anyone going to get back to me on this

oscarBravo

Given your history, I would have needed a pretty convincing reason to reverse this decision. I'm not convinced, sorry. The ban stands.

I agree that the thread should have been closed immediately. That doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't have started it.

darkman2

oscarBravo wrote: »

The ban stands.

I don't want a ban removed. I am looking for a timed ban - say 3,6 months - whatever. Not a permaban. A permaban is unfair. If you read the thread it is clearly not meant to be taken seriously. And the mod took the thread down for a very spurious reason. He did that so I could not quote from it here!

oscarBravo

darkman2 wrote: »

I don't want a ban removed. I am looking for a timed ban - say 3,6 months - whatever. Not a permaban. A permaban is unfair.

After two six-month bans? It's pretty clear you're not learning.

If you read the thread it is clearly not meant to be taken seriously.

I read the thread. It's something we take seriously.

And the mod took the thread down for a very spurious reason. He did that so I could not quote from it here!

I can still read it, and I don't see any reason to buy into your conspiracy theories. I'm upholding the permaban - decision is final.