Safe places to eat fries

AVL5

I would like to make a list of places that serve fries *not* cooked in animal fat - and the places that don't. If anybody has any restaurants/cafes/etc. to suggest, please post here!

I will start - a couple of days ago I was at the IFI in Eustace Street and I asked about their fries. The waitress immediately replied, "ah, you're asking because you're a vegetarian, right? No, we don't cook the fries separately".

If I remember correctly, Hell's Pizzas cook their fries in animal fat too.

Any other tips?

Mellor

I would say very few places use animal fat these days.
The issue is normally fries cooked in the same fat as meats.

--LOS--

I would have assumed most places don't use animal fat too. Anyone know what chinese places normally cook their chips in?

Tar.Aldarion

Oh I'd like to know this too, I'd be surprised if many do. I think mcdonalds used to? dunno if they do now.

I wouldn't be concerned about places that cook things in the same oil, just the animal fat.

SteelyDanJalapeno

McDonalds used to use beef tallow

rubadub

Mellor wrote: »

I would say very few places use animal fat these days.

A user, Moonbaby, asked in burdocks and they said it is animal fat, this was in the off topic thread (I asked around the time of that other thread on chippers you and I were posting in). As I was looking on tips to making italian chipper style chips, seemed to be mixed opinions about if they use animal fat or not.

--LOS-- wrote: »

I would have assumed most places don't use animal fat too. Anyone know what chinese places normally cook their chips in?

I keep an eye out for brand names when I am in chippers & chinese, taking peeks in the back if they open the door. I have only seen large drums of veg oil in chinese places. In eddie rockets I got big veg oil containers for brewing beer in.

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I think mcdonalds used to? dunno if they do now.

Used to, but saw a spokesperson on some site saying how they are veggie now, and kept separate, in the UK anyway.

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I wouldn't be concerned about places that cook things in the same oil, just the animal fat.

are you saying you are not concerned at meat being cooked in the same oil? It can be in effect the same as purposely adding animal fat in along with normal veg oil. I am not veggie, I cook mince and LOADs of fat comes off, I save this for frying eggs and chicken fillets etc. Some mince I get is 28% fat. Even cooking chicken nuggets on a george foreman I see a lot of oil coming off them. Sausages would loose a lot of fat to a fryer, they come out fatty but it will have "swopped" oil with the veg oil in the fryer, (if they do use veg oil).

I also wonder what chippers do with oil from say burgers, they might let it settle and add back to the main oil, rather than waste it.

Tar.Aldarion

I seem to remember the uk and ireland operating differently, hope they are the same as the uk anyhow. Not that I can remember how many years ago it is that I had them last.
Good question about the burgers there, not sure what they would do with that.

About the meat being cooked in the same veg oil, it's not really the effect I was getting at. I would like to diminish the use of animal products/deaths, so I think to myself will eating something add to the use of such a product. So if food is cooked in animal fat then yes it will, as I am eating some of that fat and it will ahve to be replaced. If they are both cooked in vegetable oil and there is 'contamination' I will not be adding to the amount of animal product being used.

--LOS--

I hate when they are cooked in the same oil, I've got wedges a few times in tescos and there has definitely been a taste of meat off them

Mellor

TiltedBrain wrote: »

McDonalds used to use beef tallow

That was in america, not ireland.
American McDs uses vegetabel oil with a beef extract, or did last /i checked.

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

About the meat being cooked in the same veg oil, it's not really the effect I was getting at. I would like to diminish the use of animal products/deaths, so I think to myself will eating something add to the use of such a product. So if food is cooked in animal fat then yes it will, as I am eating some of that fat and it will ahve to be replaced. If they are both cooked in vegetable oil and there is 'contamination' I will not be adding to the amount of animal product being used.

It really depends on your reasons for beign vege I suppose.
And how strict you are.

kraggy

It seems to me that most of the traditional fish n chips places cook their chips in lard.

It is so in Galway anyway. McDonagh's and Harry Fitz cook their chips in lard.

There's another place in Galway that I think uses animal fat too but it shall remain nameless as I can't confirm that it does use it. Just think that the container I saw in the shop before was animal fat, not vegetable.

Mellor

The chipper near me uses what people call "lard", but its actualy solid vegetable fat.
I think you just have to check with the palce and there might not even be consistancy. Some places could easily swap around depending on whats available

kraggy

Mellor wrote: »

The chipper near me uses what people call "lard", but its actualy solid vegetable fat.
I think you just have to check with the palce and there might not even be consistancy. Some places could easily swap around depending on whats available

True, but for those living in Galway, those 2 places that I mentioned definitely use animal fat. I asked.

sweet-rasmus

I've never been brave enough to ask the local chipper about the cooking oil...

krochford

in limerick i remember hering that donkey fords use lard to fry their chip so ye shouldnt eat there. ye poor sods they are the best chips in munster if not ireland!

Washout

sweet-rasmus wrote: »

I've never been brave enough to ask the local chipper about the cooking oil...

whats the fear in asking?

sweet-rasmus

Washout wrote: »

whats the fear in asking?

More of the truth to know!

El_Dangeroso

krochford wrote: »

in limerick i remember hering that donkey fords use lard to fry their chip so ye shouldnt eat there. ye poor sods they are the best chips in munster if not ireland!

Used to work there, they definitely don't. One of the owners sons is a veggie and eats the chips all the time.

Chippers use two types of oil: vegetable shortening and vegetable oil.(both are a nightmare for heart health btw.)

I have been looking for a place that fries in animal fat in Galway and there are none bar one cafe that does duck-fat fries. Animal fat is more than 5 times the price of veg fat and places that go to the extra expense usually will advertise as it is so rare and seen as 'gourmet'.

SteelyDanJalapeno

I wish more places used animal fat, so much more healthy and tasty

El_Dangeroso

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Chippers use two types of oil: vegetable shortening and vegetable oil.(both are a nightmare for heart health btw.)

Have recently heard of someplace local to me using Palm Oil.

El_Dangeroso

Moonbaby wrote: »

Have recently heard of someplace local to me using Palm Oil.

Ooh! Do tell. I suspect it wouldn't be sustainably sourced though

paddyandy

I'm fairly new to this vegan thing and it seems dairy or meat by products are "sneaked" into a lot of foods simply to give them taste.Many foods would stay on the shelves otherwise now why is there not a directory for all this?????

rubadub

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Chippers use two types of oil: vegetable shortening and vegetable oil.(both are a nightmare for heart health btw.)

I have been looking for a place that fries in animal fat in Galway and there are none bar one cafe that does duck-fat fries. Animal fat is more than 5 times the price of veg fat and places that go to the extra expense usually will advertise as it is so rare and seen as 'gourmet'.

I have seen several posts where people did bother to ask and the chipper confirmed it was animal fat (not just looking at hard fat and making a guess).

I wouldn't have thought it is 5 times the price, this is on tesco

Tesco Value Lard 250G
€0.45 (€1.80/kg)

Frytex Cooking Fat 250G
€0.86 (€3.44/kg)

Cookeen Cooking Fat 250G Pack
€0.87 (€3.48/kg)

Lard is cheapest, though the others are branded


cheapest veg oil

Tesco Pure Vegetable Oil 1 Litre
€1.35 (€0.14/100ml)

1L is about 900g, so 1.50 per kilo for oil, vs 1.80 for lard.

Fancy goose fat would be expensive of course, but there must be loads of animal fat around, and I would have thought it would be hard to get rid of these days (with irrational fears) so might have to be sold cheap.

i emailed burdocks and the italian chipper association a while ago, no reply.

El_Dangeroso

rubadub wrote: »

I have seen several posts where people did bother to ask and the chipper confirmed it was animal fat (not just looking at hard fat and making a guess).

I wouldn't have thought it is 5 times the price, this is on tesco

Lard is cheapest, though the others are branded


cheapest veg oil


1L is about 900g, so 1.50 per kilo for oil, vs 1.80 for lard.

Fancy goose fat would be expensive of course, but there must be loads of animal fat around, and I would have thought it would be hard to get rid of these days (with irrational fears) so might have to be sold cheap.

i emailed burdocks and the italian chipper association a while ago, no reply.

That's supermarket price though (and you can get a litre of veg oil for less than 1.50 in the supermarket), why would chippers use vegetable shortening (ostensibly transfat) when a cheaper alternative was available? All the big fast food chains use vegetable fat, which would lead me to think that it was far more economical. Money rules in those businesses.

rubadub

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

That's supermarket price though (and you can get a litre of veg oil for less than 1.50 in the supermarket)

1.35 is the cheapest litre of oil in tesco (which is 1.50 per kilo), superquinn is dearer.

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

why would chippers use vegetable shortening (ostensibly transfat) when a cheaper alternative was available?

Ignore the shortening, I only posted it since it came up in my search for lard, and its branded, the bulk of the price is probably for the adverts. You were saying "Animal fat is more than 5 times the price of veg fat", but in tesco the lard is only 30cent more per litre 20% more. I expect wholesalers would have similar % increases.

(BTW a while ago I was checking and many shortening brands now have no transfats)

All the big fast food chains use vegetable fat, which would lead me to think that it was far more economical.

I think many jumped on the saturated fat bandwagon too though, animal fat is still very much demonized
http://www.rense.com/general7/whyy.htm

The taste of a french fry is largely determined by the cooking oil. For decades McDonald's cooked its french fries in a mixture of about seven percent cottonseed oil and 93 percent beef tallow. The mixture gave the fries their unique flavor -- and more saturated beef fat per ounce than a McDonald's hamburger.

In 1990, amid a barrage of criticism over the amount of cholesterol in its fries, McDonald's switched to pure vegetable oil. This presented the company with a challenge: how to make fries that subtly taste like beef without cooking them in beef tallow.

The oil could be cheaper, but animal fats do get recommended by chefs for chips so I don't think Italian chippers would rule it out on price alone. Musgraves have a takeaway section and it has "Goldenfry Blue Label Frying Fat", and the irish italian chipper association show the same oil producer listed as an associate, this company is Golden Fry Edible Oils Manufacturing Limited

Very little info online about them, but does show "meat packing"
http://www.tuugo.info/Companies/golden-fry-edible-oils-manufacturing/0340001086487
and PRODUCTION AND PRESERVING OF MEAT
http://www.solocheck.ie/FreeIrishCompanyReport?companyNumber=112417&companyName=GOLDEN+FRY+EDIBLE+OILS+%28MANUFACTURING%29+LIMITED

I would guess they might be selling rendered fat and might want to disguise the fact (due to the stigma it has) by not mentioning it, and just calling it frying fat.

El_Dangeroso

rubadub wrote: »

1.35 is the cheapest litre of oil in tesco (which is 1.50 per kilo), superquinn is dearer.

Ignore the shortening, I only posted it since it came up in my search for lard, and its branded, the bulk of the price is probably for the adverts. You were saying "Animal fat is more than 5 times the price of veg fat", but in tesco the lard is only 30cent more per litre 20% more. I expect wholesalers would have similar % increases.

(BTW a while ago I was checking and many shortening brands now have no transfats)

I think many jumped on the saturated fat bandwagon too though, animal fat is still very much demonized
http://www.rense.com/general7/whyy.htm


The oil could be cheaper, but animal fats do get recommended by chefs for chips so I don't think Italian chippers would rule it out on price alone. Musgraves have a takeaway section and it has "Goldenfry Blue Label Frying Fat", and the irish italian chipper association show the same oil producer listed as an associate, this company is Golden Fry Edible Oils Manufacturing Limited

Very little info online about them, but does show "meat packing"
http://www.tuugo.info/Companies/golden-fry-edible-oils-manufacturing/0340001086487
and PRODUCTION AND PRESERVING OF MEAT
http://www.solocheck.ie/FreeIrishCompanyReport?companyNumber=112417&companyName=GOLDEN+FRY+EDIBLE+OILS+%28MANUFACTURING%29+LIMITED

I would guess they might be selling rendered fat and might want to disguise the fact (due to the stigma it has) by not mentioning it, and just calling it frying fat.

Interesting, thanks for the info. Vegetable oil is still cheaper to produce than animal fat, just the economics of the yields of raising livestock vs. intensively growing corn is pretty obvious, even without considering it's heavy stateside subsidisation. Wish I could track some hard data per wholesale tonne but I can't track any down right now. Supermarket prices don't correlate with wholesale a lot of the time.

I used to think that consumer pressure somehow made miccie d's switch to veg fat, but considering how heavily subsidised corn production is in the states, it seems that it was probably an economic choice spun as a health one. After all they still add some beef tallow and beef extract to the oil mix according to this lawsuit:

http://www.edcombs.com/CM/Notices/Notices166.asp

Edited to add: After investigating the miccie d's website:

McDonald’s French Fries are made from only high quality whole potatoes. We use carefully selected
varieties, such as Russet Burbank, Shepody, Pentland Dell, which are the right shape and provide
consistent quality in terms of texture and length. These potatoes cannot be sourced in Ireland and are
imported from Europe to ensure consistent taste and quality. In Ireland our French Fries do not contain
any animal extracts and are cooked in 100% pure vegetable oil

So they are veg friendly if not Irish potatoes :O

I used to work in about 3 different chippers in the 1990's and they all used 100% solid vegetable fat. All the chippers I have asked in Galway proclaim 100% vegetable oil. If there are still chippers using tallow I'd love to know about them but in my travels they remain the minority.

rubadub

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Wish I could track some hard data per wholesale tonne but I can't track any down right now. Supermarket prices don't correlate with wholesale a lot of the time.

I would be more interested in actual prices to chippers (which might not be the same as the ton prices). Even if it does cost more to produce, if there is no demand for it then it turns into a waste product, which meat producers would have to pay to get rid of, so it could be sold off cheap, like a butcher might give away dog bones. Lard was not even available in tescos for years, I think its hard to get in other supermarkets, none shows on superquinn online. Something must happen to all that animal fat, I have seen it used in biscuits & cakes.

I have met the guy from the local Chinese in tescos with gallons of veg oil and onions before, musgraves is very often more expensive than supermarkets, so you need other suppliers. Musgraves "frying fat" is

Goldenfry Blue Label Frying Fat
1 x 12.5kg
Was 21.75 Now 18.50

http://www.musgravecashandcarry.ie/files/r1111/R111-fastfood.pdf

So with VAT it is €1.79 per kilo, so the oil in tesco is cheaper and lard is the same. I can't see oil prices in musgraves though.

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

it was probably an economic choice spun as a health one. After all they still add some beef tallow and beef extract to the oil mix according to this lawsuit:

but it seems they were hiding this fact, and doing it for taste. This is why I think chippers might use it, even if it does cost a little more. The likes of hotdogs and chicken dippers in chippers seem higher quality than many supermarkets, they can't just get the cheapest stuff or they would lose customers.

I would rather see the actual product, as I expect many workers in chippers could be ignorant about it, just like I find barmen are. If they see "frying fat", they might guess it is veg based, as I said before the producers might be trying to hide what it is. They could even be lying, you should go in asking "I have been looking all around for a chipper that uses animal fat, do you use it?" they might think if they say they do use animal they will lose a customer! as I expect most people do not want it.

EDIT: uk place that cleans friers
http://www.purifry.co.uk/cooking-oil/fresh-cooking-oil

There are two main frying mediums for deep fat fryers, vegetable oils or animal fats.

Vegetable oils are used mainly by restaurants as their main frying medium; these oils are seen as healthier and therefore more appealing than animal fats. Some Chip shops will use vegetable oil for blanching chips prior to finishing in dripping.

Animal fat is used mainly in Fish and Chip shops, favoured because of the traditional flavours that it imparts to the food.

molly09

rubadub wrote: »

i emailed burdocks and the italian chipper association a while ago, no reply.

Hi

would love to know did you get a reply?

Mellor

paddyandy wrote: »

I'm fairly new to this vegan thing and it seems dairy or meat by products are "sneaked" into a lot of foods simply to give them taste.Many foods would stay on the shelves otherwise now why is there not a directory for all this?????

Any paticular ones you are refering to?

A lot of the time a animal product is sneaked into food, its for function. The animal fat for frying is fr taste, but I wouldn't considering it sneaked, vegans should be aware that all fried food has that potential. In the past is was the norm for fried food.

rubadub

molly09 wrote: »

Hi

would love to know did you get a reply?

No reply from either, I posted earlier saying Moonbaby asked in burdocks and they use animal fat. I doubt they check their websites much in their line of business.

awesom_o

I work in the Aviva Stadium and all the chips are cooked in rapeseed oil.. a bit random but I thought I'd throw that in there

I also know that chips in mcdonalds Ireland are cooked in vegetable oil however the apple pie yokes are cooked with the fish burgers.. ew.

Mellor

awesom_o wrote: »

I work in the Aviva Stadium and all the chips are cooked in rapeseed oil.. a bit random but I thought I'd throw that in there

I also know that chips in mcdonalds Ireland are cooked in vegetable oil however the apple pie yokes are cooked with the fish burgers.. ew.

Rapeseed is simply Canola oil. A pretty common vegetable oil.