Free Heroin!

Gee Bag

Chief Superintendent Dónal Ó Cualáin, when asked to clarify, said he was not saying heroin was being given out for free but he acknowledged that free heroin was one of the methods dealers use to get drug users addicted. Chief Supt Ó Cualáin said the heroin drug problem in Galway was “transient”; and that it was “very much on top of our agenda” to ensure it doesn’t become a widespread problem.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/21903-heroin-being-given-out-free-some-city-suburbs

Chief Wiggam's got my back on this one (sort of).

As for the army of Junkies comment, if you haven't noticed the increased number of pasty-faced wretches shuffling around town or the increased frequency of heroin seizures and conviction of heroin users for other crimes (addiction can be used as mitigating circumstance in sentencing) in the local papers then there's little I'm going to be able to do here to convince you.

The only area where there was a significant upturn was in the area of drugs, which was as a result of a major concentration on detection, according to the spokesman. The rate of cultivation and manufacture of drugs is up by a stunning 64%, while possession of drugs for sale or supply was up 60%.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/16821-crime-figures-fall-year-success-garda%C3%AD

ScumLord

RMD wrote: »

Well it's pretty simple. By giving out free heroin he creates a new wave of customers which in turn enlarges his customer base creating a much greater revenue in the long term. Look into dealer's practices, it's not the first time this has been done. Many of them are pretty smart.

Indeed they have a heroin starter pack that includes heroin, needles, a spoon, a free lighter, a guide on how to shoot up and a small pamphlet on the dangers of listening to the governments lies about heroin, "heroin, it's grand really" it's called.

Iwannahurl

Gee Bag wrote: »

http://www.galwaynews.ie/21903-heroin-being-given-out-free-some-city-suburbs

Chief Wiggam's got my back on this one (sort of).

As for the army of Junkies comment, if you haven't noticed the increased number of pasty-faced wretches shuffling around town or the increased frequency of heroin seizures and conviction of heroin users for other crimes (addiction can be used as mitigating circumstance in sentencing) in the local papers then there's little I'm going to be able to do here to convince you.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/16821-crime-figures-fall-year-success-garda%C3%AD

"Chief Superintendent Dónal Ó Cualáin, when asked to clarify, said he was not saying heroin was being given out for free but he acknowledged that free heroin was one of the methods dealers use to get drug users addicted."

This idea has been dismissed more than once in this thread, and you claimed that it is "clearly a load of auld rubbish" and a "typical urban myth".

Are you saying that the Chief Super is wrong on this specific point?

You used the phrase "army of junkies" and claimed there was a sufficient number of heroin addicts in Galway City to keep dealers in business without having to resort to distribute free samples in a bid to boost sales.

How many junkies in an army? What is the evidence, regarding the number of heroin users, other than your perception of people's complexions?

I can always be convinced by evidence, just as I can always be interested by plausible anecdotes.

Iwannahurl

ScumLord wrote: »

Indeed they have a heroin starter pack that includes heroin, needles, a spoon, a free lighter, a guide on how to shoot up and a small pamphlet on the dangers of listening to the governments lies about heroin, "heroin, it's grand really" it's called.

Are you saying categorically that this kind of thing (ie distribution of free samples) does not happen, or merely that it has not happened in Galway City to date?

BTW, a (hypothetical) 'starter pack' would be more likely to include a piece of alu-foil, a lighter and a guide on how to inhale, rather than needles and a spoon.

Gee Bag

Iwannahurl wrote: »

"Chief Superintendent Dónal Ó Cualáin, when asked to clarify, said he was not saying heroin was being given out for free but he acknowledged that free heroin was one of the methods dealers use to get drug users addicted."

This idea has been dismissed more than once in this thread, and you claimed that it is "clearly a load of auld rubbish" and a "typical urban myth".

Are you saying that the Chief Super is wrong on this specific point?

You used the phrase "army of junkies" and claimed there was a sufficient number of heroin addicts in Galway City to keep dealers in business without having to resort to distribute free samples in a bid to boost sales.

How many junkies in an army? What is the evidence, regarding the number of heroin users, other than your perception of people's complexions?

I can always be convinced by evidence, just as I can always be interested by plausible anecdotes.

Heroin dealers generally don't publish their annual accounts. Their kind of crafty like that.

If you honestly haven't noticed the increase in the number of junkies shuffling around town or heard anecdotal evidence to the same effect then use must wander around with a bucket over your head.

Iwannahurl

Gee Bag wrote: »

Heroin dealers generally don't publish their annual accounts. Their kind of crafty like that.

If you honestly haven't noticed the increase in the number of junkies shuffling around town or heard anecdotal evidence to the same effect then use must wander around with a bucket over your head.

You said "army" orginally, which suggests a very large number. Are you talking about hundreds or thousands?

To put this in perspective, there are an estimated 13,000 heroin users in the Dublin area.

Apart from your own perceptions, apparently based on complexion and gait, can you point to any authoritative source indicating (a) that there is an "army of junkies" in Galway City, and (b) the estimated size of said army?

By the way, can I now take it that you are no longer insisting that the free samples claim is an "urban myth"?

nicechick!

Robbo wrote: »

Having been away for a while, I was a bit taken aback by the front page of ths weeks Galway Independent, where Cllr. Frank Fahy (the other one, the one who's currently a taxi driver) had received "worrying" reports of free heroin being doled out in certain estates.

Naturally, I was shocked into submission, and being white and middle class, I've decided to take it up with the internets.

Well, where is it or is it one of those myths of the chattering classes like the "heroin laced" hash which was being sold to children of respectable families a few years ago (but for the same price mind).

What has being ''white and middle class'' have anything to do with the fact?

mcgarry098

well i know dealers give people a free line of coke or other in the hope theyd get addicted and buy it off them

Iwannahurl

nicechick! wrote: »

What has being ''white and middle class'' have anything to do with the fact?

In the case of this thread, just an opportunity to sneer in a superior fashion, I reckon.

inisboffin

Iwannahurl wrote: »

In the case of this thread, just an opportunity to sneer in a superior fashion, I reckon.

I dunno. I'd give OP the benefit of the doubt and say they were making a joke. Being facetious?

Iwannahurl

inisboffin wrote: »

I dunno. I'd give OP the benefit of the doubt and say they were making a joke. Being facetious?

Perhaps.

nicechick!

inisboffin wrote: »

I dunno. I'd give OP the benefit of the doubt and say they were making a joke. Being facetious.

Well if its a joke it didn't make me laugh

Gee Bag

http://www.galwaynews.ie/15308-galway-heroin-surge-sees-70-rise-number-dealers-caught

http://www.galwaynews.ie/16795-galway-grip-growing-heroin-crisis

CiaranC

Is it only free heroin? Any free charlie? This should be in bargain alerts

Iwannahurl

Gee Bag wrote: »

http://www.galwaynews.ie/15308-galway-heroin-surge-sees-70-rise-number-dealers-caught

http://www.galwaynews.ie/16795-galway-grip-growing-heroin-crisis

I don't doubt there is heroin dealing/use/addiction in Galway City (in fact I know there is) but it's a question of scale.

Headline: "Galway heroin surge sees 70% rise in number of dealers caught".

Quote: "Since January there have been 34 incidents of possession of drugs for sale or supply. This represents an increase of 70% on the same period last year."

Quote: "The incidents of ‘simple possession’ of drugs, which means people who are caught with quantities of drugs for their own use, fell by 5% to 165 cases."

AGS sometimes quote large percentage changes without commenting much on the actual numbers. A 70% change in this case is an increase from 20 to 34 detected incidents (of drug-dealing) in comparable nine-month periods.

Evidence of drug dealing? Yes. Evidence of an "army of junkies"? Clearly not.

On what basis can you refer to local media reports as evidence of a major heroin problem in Galway City, and at the same time dismiss as a "myth" the claim that dealers might be trying to increase the number of users by distributing free samples?

Iwannahurl

CiaranC wrote: »

Is it only free heroin? Any free charlie? This should be in bargain alerts

5 Things Business Owners Can Learn From Drug Dealers.

Use of "loss leaders" is a well-established marketing strategy.

Gee Bag

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I don't doubt there is heroin dealing/use/addiction in Galway City (in fact I know there is) but it's a question of scale.

Headline: "Galway heroin surge sees 70% rise in number of dealers caught".

Quote: "Since January there have been 34 incidents of possession of drugs for sale or supply. This represents an increase of 70% on the same period last year."

Quote: "The incidents of ‘simple possession’ of drugs, which means people who are caught with quantities of drugs for their own use, fell by 5% to 165 cases."

AGS sometimes quote large percentage changes without commenting much on the actual numbers. A 70% change in this case is an increase from 20 to 34 detected incidents (of drug-dealing) in comparable nine-month periods.

Evidence of drug dealing? Yes. Evidence of an "army of junkies"? Clearly not.

On what basis can you refer to local media reports as evidence of a major heroin problem in Galway City, and at the same time dismiss as a "myth" the claim that dealers might be trying to increase the number of users by distributing free samples?

The difference is one paper was reporting the opinion of a councillor, while the other stories are based on actual statistical evidence.

Chief Superintendent Dónal Ó Cualáin, when asked to clarify, said he was not saying heroin was being given out for free but he acknowledged that free heroin was one of the methods dealers use to get drug users addicted.

Reading between the liness - The chief-super in Galway has already stated that the original 'free heroin' story is not true, but when pushed said free drugs have been given out elsewhere. Maybe, just maybe he was trying to help out the superintendent in salthill who came out and backed councillor Fahy in the first place. The salthill super now looks a bit silly when his boss,the chief-super has more or less stated that he was talking sh1te.

The same as you I can't find exact figures for heroin use in Galway on the internet (I'm pretty sure you googled it as well). Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

If you want to be pedantic about the use of the word 'army' thats up to you. I used the term to indicate that there was a substantial existing customer base for heroin dealers in Galway. It's not meant to mean that they are like a real army with junkie generals and junkie tanks.

You can see junkies around town all the time now. They are pretty easy to spot with the shuffling walk, bad teeth, dead eyes, etc, etc. Years ago they were few and far between.

Your probably right when you say the majority are smoking, but there are plenty of used syringes being dumped around town in stupid places.

http://irishexaminer.ie/ireland/methadone-use-falls-but-drugs-issue-complex-158410.html

RMD

Gee Bag wrote: »

I get the basic concept behind the story. I just think the whole thing is bullsh1t. Heroin is not instantly addictive.

How does one look into dealer's practices in Galway? Do they have a website?

I'm not talking about the practices specific to dealer's in Galway. Take Frank Lucas for example (American Gangster), he made Heroin cheap and easily available, often offering the 1st "sample" free as he knew it would lead to a fairly high addiction rate. Soon enough, Harlem was ravaged by Heroin and he made insane amounts of money, so much so he wasn't able to spend it. It's fairly simple, set aside a certain amount of Heroin, offer it free to people who haven't taken it before and a certain amount will come back looking for more. It's not that hard to comprehend, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is being done, certainly not the first time I've heard of it being done.

Gee Bag

RMD wrote: »

I'm not talking about the practices specific to dealer's in Galway. Take Frank Lucas for example (American Gangster), he made Heroin cheap and easily available, often offering the 1st "sample" free as he knew it would lead to a fairly high addiction rate. Soon enough, Harlem was ravaged by Heroin and he made insane amounts of money, so much so he wasn't able to spend it. It's fairly simple, set aside a certain amount of Heroin, offer it free to people who haven't taken it before and a certain amount will come back looking for more. It's not that hard to comprehend, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is being done, certainly not the first time I've heard of it being done.

Eh, but Galway is slightly different to Harlem.

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/4300-users-seek-help-from-drugs-charity-169177.html

First couple of lines of this report, MQI state that there is currently a heroin drought. Not exactly the time to be giving the stuff away for free.

Iwannahurl

Gee Bag wrote: »

The difference is one paper was reporting the opinion of a councillor, while the other stories are based on actual statistical evidence.

Reading between the liness - The chief-super in Galway has already stated that the original 'free heroin' story is not true, but when pushed said free drugs have been given out elsewhere. Maybe, just maybe he was trying to help out the superintendent in salthill who came out and backed councillor Fahy in the first place. The salthill super now looks a bit silly when his boss,the chief-super has more or less stated that he was talking sh1te.

The same as you I can't find exact figures for heroin use in Galway on the internet (I'm pretty sure you googled it as well). Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

If you want to be pedantic about the use of the word 'army' thats up to you. I used the term to indicate that there was a substantial existing customer base for heroin dealers in Galway. It's not meant to mean that they are like a real army with junkie generals and junkie tanks.

You can see junkies around town all the time now. They are pretty easy to spot with the shuffling walk, bad teeth, dead eyes, etc, etc. Years ago they were few and far between.

Your probably right when you say the majority are smoking, but there are plenty of used syringes being dumped around town in stupid places.

The Chief Supt. has not stated that the free heroin story is untrue. He has acknowledged that this is a 'marketing' strategy sometimes used by heroin dealers (contrary to your own assertions) and has said that he is not aware of specific instances in Galway City. That's a crucial difference.

It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that Cllr Fahy is in fact correct in this matter, and nobody in AGS or on the JPC has flatly contradicted him.

However, a few people in this thread, including the OP apparently, are claiming that the story is bunk, based on no direct or indirect evidence whatsoever. Call me pedantic if you want, but that kind of supercilious attitude bugs me.

To repeat, this is what you wrote earlier:

Gee Bag wrote: »

Because it's clearly a load of auld rubbish. It's the typical urban myth that keeps nice middle class parents awake at night.

Mr. Big in Galway is giving away thousands of euros worth of free heroin to youngsters on the off chance that some of them will get hooked?

Why not just sell it to the army of junkies already knocking around town?

You're categorically stating that the alleged distribution of free heroin by drug dealers is "rubbish", "sh1te" and a "myth". The Chief Supt. says otherwise, and there is evidence that this is a dealers' strategy in Ireland and elsewhere.

Your use of the term "army of junkies" clearly implies that there is a very large and highly visible cohort of heroin addicts in Galway City. You also claim that this "substantial customer base" is already large enough to keep dealers in business, and therefore that Cllr Fahy's claim is further undermined.

In fact, you cannot even provide estimates for the number of heroin users/addicts in Galway City, never mind exact figures.

Two capture-recapture studies attempting to estimate the prevalence of opiate use in Ireland have been conducted, one in 2001 and another in 2006. The second study found a large increase in the prevalence of opiate use, "albeit from a low estimate in 2001".

The researchers state that the 2006 figures are likely to be overestimates.

The estimated prevalence of opiate use outside of Dublin in 2006 was 2.9 per thousand population aged 15-64.

According to the 2006 Census figures, the population of Galway City is approximately 72000, of which 76% are aged 15-64.

Applying the above prevalence estimate crudely to the 55000 or so adults in Galway City aged 15-64, we can estimate that there are approximately 160 opiate users in the locality.

Let's just say for the sake of argument that the real number of heroin users and addicts in Galway City is twice the officially estimated number for the rest of Ireland outside Dublin. In a city the size of Galway, would a cohort of 320 people with bad teeth and dead eyes really equate to an "army of junkies"?

Clearly hysteria about a heroin crisis is not justified, but there is no reason to be complacent either. And neither is there reason to be certain that dealers are not trying to add to their customer base through the strategic use of 'loss leaders' in the form of free samples.

Gee Bag

Your the most fearsome internet warrior in all of internet land and I'm really terrified of you.

Or maybe I'm just scared that you'll start posting fascinating facts about roundabouts like you do in your other forums.

Or maybe, just maybe I can't be arsed wasting my time reading your posts...

Iwannahurl

Gee Bag wrote: »

Well if a councillor in Galway says it then it must be true!

But seeing that he's also a taxi driver this statement should be treated as though it was the word of God.

And it was also in the Galway Independent, that paper makes the Advertiser look like the Sunday Times.

Gee Bag wrote: »

We should head down to the next Novena and find out wht the word on the street is..........

Gee Bag wrote: »

Translation for broadcasting on Liveline "I'm a taxi driver Joe, I know things Joe, I see things Joe, all taxi drivers have super powers Joe"

I call shenanigans on the whole story!

Gee Bag wrote: »

I get the basic concept behind the story. I just think the whole thing is bullsh1t. Heroin is not instantly addictive.

How does one look into dealer's practices in Galway? Do they have a website?

Gee Bag wrote: »

Heroin dealers generally don't publish their annual accounts. Their kind of crafty like that.

If you honestly haven't noticed the increase in the number of junkies shuffling around town or heard anecdotal evidence to the same effect then use must wander around with a bucket over your head.

Gee Bag wrote: »

Yes, but only if you seal up the system by putting a clothes peg on your todger

.

jsd1004

McTigs wrote: »

they used to give out free ecstasy in the castle in salthill years ago. a tablet each as we walked in the door.

i never fully understood the business plan mind

As a casual drug user in my student days i never saw free drugs being given out..

Gee Bag

............and the point of posting all my quotes above is?

TerrorFirmer

Gee Bag wrote: »

Your the most fearsome internet warrior in all of internet land and I'm really terrified of you.

Or maybe I'm just scared that you'll start posting fascinating facts about roundabouts like you do in your other forums.

Or maybe, just maybe I can't be arsed wasting my time reading your posts...

I don't know what you think an 'internet warrior' is, but as someone who's chasing the truth with supportive evidence and links that purport their opinions, it's not Iwannahurl in this instance.

The Scientician

This is a UK cite but interesting nonetheless, and somewhat germane to the topic at hand.

Firstly, the vast majority of nonusers initially experiment with drugs obtained from friends, family or acquaintances, certainly not from strangers.

Secondly, giving away free drugs as a matter of course does not make economic sense. Few drug dealers, if any, can afford to simply give away free drugs in the hope that people will buy from them as opposed to other drug dealers in the future. This idea is also predicated upon another long-standing myth - that once 'hooked' the new user will have to have more drugs. The reality is that addiction to drugs is never immediate, usually taking many months to develop. No street -level dealer has the resources to invest in such an unpredictable and costly exercise, and certainly not on a systematic basis as some reports have suggested.

It goes on to say...

Under certain circumstances free drugs ('freebies') are provided by dealers in drug transactions, but research shows that these tend to be only with buyers who have an established relationship with the dealer, having proven themselves to be reliable clients. Freebies are used to reward good clients and to cultivate improved relationships - they are however not a regular or predictable part of drug transactions.

Perhaps Irish dealers are a vastly different kettle of fish to UK dealers but I suspect they're not.

From: http://www.drugscope.org.uk/resources/mediaguide/dealers

McTigs

jsd1004 wrote: »

As a casual drug user in my student days i never saw free drugs being given out..

That's cos they weren't.

I was making reference to Sgt Sugrues allegations on local radio at the time. This story made me think of it.

You'd want to be a complete idiot to try heroin just because it's free. Other drugs, possibly, but that's just asking for trouble.

Zzippy

nicechick! wrote: »

What has being ''white and middle class'' have anything to do with the fact?

Probably the fact that being "middle class" makes it less likely that one has been exposed to heroin use - heroin being notorious for destroying "lower class" areas (Dublin in the 80s, the areas where heroin use was rampant were all lower/working class areas with high unemployment, etc)

Also, being "middle class" increases the likelihood of indulging/being exposed to more "designer drugs" such as cocaine. In fact, Robbo is so middle class that he basically snorted his inheritance away, and turned to dealing to feed his habit (not a street dealer, that's too working class). His middle class education helped him to become a bigtime drugs kingpin, and this thread is just research before he expands his business into heroin.

ScumLord

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Are you saying categorically that this kind of thing (ie distribution of free samples) does not happen, or merely that it has not happened in Galway City to date?

Not in my experience, I've never not once seen a dealer give away free drugs in an attempt to get someone hooked and buying off them. If anything they don't want more customers as most drug dealers are only doing it to guarantee their own supply.