Correcting copies and commenting

peanuthead

Hi this is something I would like to hear other teachers' opinions on.

When you are correcting copies, do you comment on the work done?

I know this depends on the subject some of the times, but generally speaking, do you think longer, more detailed comments make a difference to the quality of a students work in the long term?

I know this also depends on the student too, whether or not they take it in or not.

When I'm correcting copies, I can't help but give each student about 5 lines about what is good and what they could improve for next time.

I would like to think it makes a difference and I do believe that I have seen one in my students, so I prefer to think of it as an investment of time rather than a waste.

I only ask as this topic has gotten mixed reactions from some friends of mine. One saw me correcting and suggested that I was just doing it 'to be seen doing it' while another would agree that it is worthwhile in the long run. Both are teachers but none of the three of us teach in the same school.

Our argument was that if what needs to be improved on is written in the copy, then if you are dealing with a supportive household, the problem will become solved as the parents/guardians become involved, but the other (who is teaching longer than us and has taken many more classes to exams) claims that overall it is a huge waste of time.

Just looking for more opinions on what others do when they're correcting.

Toto Wolfcastle

Of course giving comments is worthwhile, although many students wont read the comments. However, if you don't point out how a student can improve then I don't see how they can improve, it's not like we have the time to talk to students individually about how to improve. Doing so in a copy is an easy way of doing this, and because the comments will always be in their copies they can always look back on them.

I have had 3 inspections in the last few years, including a WSE, and all the inspectors mentioned how important it is to comment. The most important thing to remember is that you should always point out where the student did something right, as well as pointing out how they can improve.

spurious

What you have described is the 'Assessment for Learning' method of correcting.

We're bringing it in across the board in our place. It's far more useful to the child than a bald 'C+ 7/10/2011'.

It could be argued that the grade could be left off entirely and just a guiding comment or as you said suggestions for improvement included.

Many children if they get a B on their homework, just see it as 'not an A' (and thus a failure in their eyes), whereas no given grade, but a comment pointing out the very good aspects of the answer and a suggestion of how the work could have been improved is far more encouraging.

Toto Wolfcastle

Yeah, we had a month in the last school I was in where we didn't grade homework at all. A lot of teachers kept it up after that. It's especially good for weaker students who may get a low grade, but with comments can actually see what they did well as well as how to improve.

peanuthead

spurious wrote: »

What you have described is the 'Assessment for Learning' method of correcting.

We're bringing it in across the board in our place. It's far more useful to the child than a bald 'C+ 7/10/2011'.

It could be argued that the grade could be left off entirely and just a guiding comment or as you said suggestions for improvement included.

Many children if they get a B on their homework, just see it as 'not an A' (and thus a failure in their eyes), whereas no given grade, but a comment pointing out the very good aspects of the answer and a suggestion of how the work could have been improved is far more encouraging.

Yes, this is EXACTLY what I think. It's a hard one I find because as BP says they don't always read the comments, but then again as you point out spurious, when they see the B or C, they see it as 'not an A'.

I initially took the grade off completely, but found standards slipped a little. So now what I do is they get comments only but every so often, maybe every 2-4 weeks their work may be graded. So now everything is to standard just in case it's the one to be graded.

And I was only thinking today, that I think when I'm taking the register I'm going to get them to read their comments too.

Of course it's very time consuming, but I'm hoping, and I do believe, it will be worthwhile in the long run

implausible

I always comment and only give a mark coming up to exams for exam questions (English). Something an Assessment for Learning facilitator said at one of our staff development days stuck with me - "give the students 2 stars and a wish".

peanuthead

implausible wrote: »

I always comment and only give a mark coming up to exams for exam questions (English). Something an Assessment for Learning facilitator said at one of our staff development days stuck with me - "give the students 2 stars and a wish".

2 stars and a wish?

As in note two things they do well and one thing to work on?

Rosita

peanuthead wrote: »

When I'm correcting copies, I can't help but give each student about 5 lines about what is good and what they could improve for next time.

It is hard to make an argument for taking up copies at all - as opposed to just correcting in class - if a teacher is not commenting. So, yes, I always comment. I wouldn't go as far as five lines many times but I wouldn't knock someone who did. I suppose the key is to be sure that students are able to understand the feedback and what they can do to act on it.

Does it help them improve in the long run? In most cases it must do. They certainly cannot improve unless their good and bad points are highlighted anyway. I've done a lot of work recently with my Junior Cert honours English class on their writing skills, getting them to write about mundane incidents in a lively way and you would not believe how well they have responded to comments and advice. So feedback certainly improves them as long as it is genuine commentary on how to improve as opposed to just "good" or "careless" or whatever. It seems to me like you've been doing a great job.

And as for doing things to "be seen to be" doing things...well that's the way things have gone. Personally I did far more than 33 extra hours last year with an involvement in after-school sports as well as subject meetings, but this year because of Croke Park I have to be seen to doing those hours because mister-up-his-own-a**e-taxpayer wants "value for money". It is others who have created the "being seen to to be doing" environment. And there is no doubt but that inspectors will look for proper feedback in copies. Far better to be doing it consistently than having to update copies for months on end with by-then-pointless comments because there's a subject inspection in the offing - and that's not to even mention the on the spot inspections they now talk about!

clartharlear

If you're going to put a grade on the work, there's no point in putting a comment too. I remember reading a paper about it a few years back, but can't find it now. Comments alone will help students improvement compared with grades, but if students see a grade, they won't read a comment.

In my school, the standard is to write What Went Well and Even Better If and every student knows WWW and EBI.

Einhard

I only started the Dip last month so I'm not speaking with a huge amount of experience, but the notion of grading work (outside of exams) strikes me as quite odd. I don't really see the point. If one structures one's comments well, the student can get a good idea of how well they fared in a particular task, and ways to improve.

peanuthead

I just thought I would give you both my tuppence worth here as I have had exactly the same opinions as both of you in the past:

clartharlear wrote: »

If you're going to put a grade on the work, there's no point in putting a comment too. I remember reading a paper about it a few years back, but can't find it now. Comments alone will help students improvement compared with grades, but if students see a grade, they won't read a comment.

In my school, the standard is to write What Went Well and Even Better If and every student knows WWW and EBI.

Einhard wrote: »

I only started the Dip last month so I'm not speaking with a huge amount of experience, but the notion of grading work (outside of exams) strikes me as quite odd. I don't really see the point. If one structures one's comments well, the student can get a good idea of how well they fared in a particular task, and ways to improve.

That is good, but only if it is a whole school approach and has been that way from the start. I have been dealing with students who are getting grades in other subjects and were so used to getting them they would come up to me after having read their comment and still ask for a grade. I would say no.

But I felt that although students read the comments - and I know they do because I discuss them with the students on group or individual basis - the comments had the same effect as 'clean your room' had on them, if you know what I mean : 'yeah I will fix those spellings', 'ah, paragraphs, yeah I'll get onto that next time'

So one day I decided to stick a grade onto the end of their work. One student said to me "What miss, a grade? You never said a grade was going on this??!" For others came up to me, a lot more interested in their comment that day and what advice I had for learning spellings and developing ideas.

Comments are great and are better than a grade, but a grade allows students to see exactly where they are 'on the ladder' so to speak. Students respond to exams, well this particular group do, and the occasional grade on their work every so often keeps them on their toes. Afterall, the big test we are working towards is graded itself.

But that's just the one particular group that I'm thinking of, hope that helps.

Edit: Einhard, 04.14!!??!! I hope you were out partying and not up doing lesson plans at that hour!!