Charolais or BB Sires ??

Grecco

Looking recommendations for AI Charolais and BB sires.
I have a teaser bull runing with 20 of my best Simental cross cows.
These cows are big Square blocks of cows with loads of milk and would calf an elephant!
I prefer the Charolais as they are easy sellers but I notice that I`m getting a lot of whitehead Charlie from these cows.
I`m now considering using Blues but don`t know any good AIs to use and is there a chance that they could breed whitehead blues ??
Also I seen a Charolais calf belonging to a neighbour, very nice calf but he wasnt sure of the Sire , said it was a crossmolina ???

Any info lads
thanks

leg wax

dep kyr stq for bb bulls.

Bizzum

We have bred some powerfull charolais calves off Simx cows.
Who do you normally use for AI?
The Crossmolina could be Crossmolina Euro (CXQ) who stands at Dovea.
They have a few very nice Charolais bulls!

Tora Bora

I didn't think the white face charolais was any draw back to them in terms of sale price anymore. Used to be somewhat of a draw back, but that is forgotten about if the animal has good make where it counts.

redzerologhlen

Grecco wrote: »

Looking recommendations for AI Charolais and BB sires.
I have a teaser bull runing with 20 of my best Simental cross cows.
These cows are big Square blocks of cows with loads of milk and would calf an elephant!
I prefer the Charolais as they are easy sellers but I notice that I`m getting a lot of whitehead Charlie from these cows.
I`m now considering using Blues but don`t know any good AIs to use and is there a chance that they could breed whitehead blues ??
Also I seen a Charolais calf belonging to a neighbour, very nice calf but he wasnt sure of the Sire , said it was a crossmolina ???

Any info lads
thanks

I would stick with a charolais on them, Im not too keen with the blue x sim. I think its hard to get the muscle on them that the shippers are looking for. Thats my 2 cents on it.

pakalasa

What kind of simmentals are they? Half bred from holsteins, 3/4 etc
Will you be around for calving?
What AI company do you use, NCBC or Dovea?
How do you find the teaser? How long have you him?

leg wax

i would agree with the lads above the blue does not cross great with the sim ,but there are sim cows that it does,a bit of hit and miss i think.why not go sim back on them?

Kovu

Grecco wrote: »

Looking recommendations for AI Charolais and BB sires.
I have a teaser bull runing with 20 of my best Simental cross cows.
These cows are big Square blocks of cows with loads of milk and would calf an elephant!
I prefer the Charolais as they are easy sellers but I notice that I`m getting a lot of whitehead Charlie from these cows.
I`m now considering using Blues but don`t know any good AIs to use and is there a chance that they could breed whitehead blues ??
Also I seen a Charolais calf belonging to a neighbour, very nice calf but he wasnt sure of the Sire , said it was a crossmolina ???

Any info lads
thanks

Tried it, depends on the dam, we had a huge sim/brfr with ch somewhere in her that bred show calves, another that was light in the bone bred narrow ones. I find a ch/sm will have a great heifer for breeding (milk and muscle) Have you not noticed the trade for CH this year though? Everyone hopped on the BB bandwagon and now we have a lack of stores. Breed for what you intend to sell. Blues for weans (Quality weans) and ch for farmers/feeding animals/ further life killing.

tismesoitis

if you are using a bb then make sure u go with an all white bull. the white bulls mark the calves blue much more often almost 100% of the time. we have some sim cows with calves out of black n white or blue n white blues and some of them look like muscly sims maybe not what wil get top prices off exporters. when u get the blue ones ur on d pigs back! good luck wit it.

Grecco

Bizzum wrote: »

Who do you normally use for AI?

Crossmolina Euro, thats the one. Impressive looking calf.
I use Dovea

Tora Bora wrote: »

I didn't think the white face charolais was any draw back to them in terms of sale price anymore. Used to be somewhat of a draw back, but that is forgotten about if the animal has good make where it counts.

It goes against them with the exporters. There not as keen on them on the continent. Which is a pity as my best Weanlens are whitehead charlies

pakalasa wrote: »

What kind of simmentals are they? Half bred from holsteins, 3/4 etc
Will you be around for calving?
What AI company do you use, NCBC or Dovea?
How do you find the teaser? How long have you him?

The Teaser was a very expensive Purebred charlie that was firing Blanks!!! But at least I never miss them bulling now

The cows are 1/2 Semmental out of Hillcrest General
then 1/4 Hereford and 1/4 Fresien
They took a while to breed as I had to breed them off 1/2 hereford 1/2 Fresien cows.
I find them excellent for my side of the country (West Clare). Great Bone, well able to calf,produce a good calf, easy to feed, loads of milk to push on the weanlen to extra weight and most important they are very very quite.
Thats why I`m disappointed that I don't get the full white charlie.
I`ll try out a few with the Blues as a good Blue Weanlen fetches serious money

Kovu

Grecco wrote: »

Crossmolina Euro, thats the one. Impressive looking calf.

I`ll try out a few with the Blues as a good Blue Weanlen fetches serious money

This is where the weanling trade is going wrong with blues. I've nothing against your cattle, they'll breed a grand blue, but it seems to be the general thought with blues. Many men think they can cross a holstein and get a show winner:rolleyes: Yours would at least have milk.
(Personally thinking, they may be light in the bone,, bar some of the purer HF)

Muckit

Grecco wrote: »

The Teaser was a very expensive Purebred charlie that was firing Blanks!!! But at least I never miss them bulling now

ah F*+K! :eek: Did you buy private or at a society sale? I hope you got compensated. You obviously bought the bull on the premise that he was fertile and fit for breeding. If 'not fit for purpose' you have (had) rights.

Bizzum

I like the sound of your cows, the way they're bred.
I would think they would cross well to a good CH bull. I suppose really you need to decide what market you're aiming for breed accordingly. Crossmolina Euro or Cloverfield Excellent look to useful bulls if it's muscle you want.

Grecco

Muckit wrote: »

ah F*+K! :eek: Did you buy private or at a society sale? I hope you got compensated. You obviously bought the bull on the premise that he was fertile and fit for breeding. If 'not fit for purpose' you have (had) rights.

I did buy him at a society sale, and in fairness the Farmer who sold the Bull couldn`t do enough for me I was offered a refund or a replacment. The Bull is a CF85 and the replacment was related to some of my own purebred heifers so I agreed to take another CF85 next spring plus a few quid towards AI so Im happy with that, and he`s gonna fatten him up for the Butchers and give me a few steaks
Pity really because he was a fine Bull

Grecco

Bizzum wrote: »

I like the sound of your cows, the way they're bred.
I would think they would cross well to a good CH bull. I suppose really you need to decide what market you're aiming for breed accordingly. Crossmolina Euro or Cloverfield Excellent look to useful bulls if it's muscle you want.

I Would recommend Breeding a few but it takes a few years to get them. You need a good hereford cross Fresien cow to start with and there not always there to be bought.
The DerryPatrick Lim X fresiens got good results but I just find the Limos arent as docile as the Simmental but you could get into them quicker

pakalasa

I would be inclined to stick with the Charolais. Why not try a few BB on the more muscly cows and see how you get on. Might be worth breeding a few Simmental replacements too while you're at it.
Decent of the Charoalis breeder in fairness.

redzerologhlen

pakalasa wrote: »

I would be inclined to stick with the Charolais. Why not try a few BB on the more muscly cows and see how you get on. Might be worth breeding a few Simmental replacements too while you're at it.
Decent of the Charoalis breeder in fairness.

It was but it's to be expected of any reputable breeder I would imagine. The word would spread fast if you were selling infertile bulls and giving the fingers to the farmer that bought them!! Theres no future in that carry on really.

essgee268

Grecco wrote: »

Looking recommendations for AI Charolais and BB sires.
I have a teaser bull runing with 20 of my best Simental cross cows.
These cows are big Square blocks of cows with loads of milk and would calf an elephant!
I prefer the Charolais as they are easy sellers but I notice that I`m getting a lot of whitehead Charlie from these cows.
I`m now considering using Blues but don`t know any good AIs to use and is there a chance that they could breed whitehead blues ??
Also I seen a Charolais calf belonging to a neighbour, very nice calf but he wasnt sure of the Sire , said it was a crossmolina ???

Any info lads
thanks

Crossmolina Euro was bred beside me, Smashing calf but there will be no Calf's out of Him till Janurary:mad:

limo_100

hi i don't no if this is the rite spot to ask but can someone explain how to read and interpret the blup ratings???

pakalasa

BLUP

Have a read of this;
http://www.irishlimousin.com/html/change_in_icbf_evaluations.html

The BLUP system now seems to be replaced by the ICBF € Euro values. It explains why in the above link.
There are 4 parts to BLUP - Muscle, Skeletal, Funtionality & Docility. 100 was taken as the average in the base year. Base year was '99, I think. So anything above that would be considered above average.
I think it should be kept with the ICBF scores because it tells you what kind of bull it is, whether it's stretchy, muscly, good balance etc.

Example a bull with Muscle - 130 and Skeletal 101, would be considered a smallish but very muscly bull. These type would be reconmended for crossing with Dairy cows, early finishing etc. If you were breeding cattle to finish at a later date and breeding in the suckler herd, then a higher Skeletal value would be better.