Doom is the best FPS ever

nyarlothothep

Fck it, I don't care about COD or Halo or whatever FPS is meant to be great. Doom rocks for a few reasons.

1. Demons
2. OTT weapons
3. Large numbers of enemies
4. A kick ass soundtrack

The style and delivery of the game are unsurpassed. I say this from a position of complete nostalgia and subjectivity, however if a game is good I'll be the first to say it, regardless of whether its old or new but no fps game except for Quake (which didn't quite reach the awesome level of doom because it was mostly brown and gloomy with a soundtrack that while good wasn't as ass kicking), has reached the heights of Doom. Doom didn't involve aliens, wasn't a boring war based fps or attempted to imitate reality, it was just a badass game with demons, space marines, demonic landscapes, armies of hellish minions, a vast array of ridiculous weapons and futuristic architecture coupled with heavy metal. I don't see many games threading in its footsteps.

Azure_sky

I still prefer Doom on my PS1 to any of the COD, Halo or GOW games tbh.

Rick Deckard

If you still have it on the ps1, look up code for the hidden "club doom" level.

It was set in a nightclub and had a stomping german hardcore soundtrack.

Pyongyang

FPS is one genre I will never understand the attraction or appreciate. I never have, probably never will.*



*except for the Thief and Rainbow Six games if they count.

batari

If ya get a chance load up an emulator for the N-Gage and have a go of Ashen, excellent fps.

Dale Parish

I'm going to be a maverick and say Wolfenstein 3D is better :P

johnny_ultimate

Half-Life 1 + 2 > All

Professey Chin

Blake Stone :cool:

pdbhp

Call of............ Ah feck it:pac:

Actually Doom on GBA is great fun so yeah I likey Doom

CiDeRmAn

Doom was the dogs nuts but now it is plain it was and remains a key fetching exercise, the game was breathtaking at the time but quickly replaced by more shiny key fetch games like Duke 3D before Half life took the Holland wiped its ass with it.
Then Half Life 2 came along and continued to school everyone in how its done.
Its arguable that as soon as the Counter strike mod came out ID ceases to be relevant and have been playing catch up ever since..

COD games have been recycling the same crap since COD 2 and only the Battlefield titles seem to have been willing to evolve.
Halo has been controversial, I these parts at least, but overall has added some sophistication to console fps
I see the response to Rage, the latest opus from ID, has been receiving little more than sevens from all and sundry, coming across like a Borderlands /Fallout 3 wannabe.
Me, I bought Dark Souls instead.

nyarlothothep

I'm just going to go on record here and say hand on heart that Half Life sucks balls. 1. no demons. 2. gay plot. 3. no heavy metal. Its just a sci fi shooter which wins out on convention. I never understood the appeal of Half Life, that said I never understood the appeal of lots of things that are meant to be great but aren't like Planescape and bands like Mastodon or Tool.

pdbhp

nyarlothothep wrote: »

I'm just going to go on record here and say hand on heart that Half Life sucks balls. 1. no demons. 2. gay plot. 3. no heavy metal. Its just a sci fi shooter which wins out on convention. I never understood the appeal of Half Life, that said I never understood the appeal of lots of things that are meant to be great but aren't like Planescape and bands like Mastodon or Tool.

You can slag off HalfLife / Halo and any game you want around here but not Mastodon:mad:

johnny_ultimate

nyarlothothep wrote: »

I'm just going to go on record here and say hand on heart that Half Life sucks balls. 1. no demons. 2. gay plot. 3. no heavy metal. Its just a sci fi shooter which wins out on convention. I never understood the appeal of Half Life, that said I never understood the appeal of lots of things that are meant to be great but aren't like Planescape and bands like Mastodon or Tool.

I'm not even giving you the satisfaction of replying to that since you appear to have invented bizarre criteria for what warrants a good FPS while ignoring vital elements like gameplay, character, mechanics etc...

'No heavy metal'? *shakes head sadly*

Dr Bob

I luvs Doom.I remember the first time I saw it I was blown away .We'd played a shedload of wolfenstein in college , but doom was freaking amazing looking .And then there was deathmatch fun.
I've a softspot for the 'Blood' games as well ,as well as shadow warrior.Duke was always a bit ****e though
Tbh I've always thought HalfLife was a bit over rated .there was waay to much jumping on freaking crates for me to be totally honest.
Mind you it helped bring Team fortress into the world.
On the other hand it gave the world the gob****e magnet that is Counterstrike so it evens out I guess

ITS_A_BADGER

goldeneye 64 i mean come on guys the multiplayer, the missions, just epic

barrmur

Bit of a Quake fan myself. Cant believe it hasn't been mentioned. Nothing better than going on the rampage with a Quad Damage!!!

Captain Chaos

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Doom didn't involve aliens,.

What do you think you were killing and what planet was the game set on?

I rest my case.

Doom 3 though, it was a solid shooter but was very overlooked except for hardcore Id fans. I though it was fairly good on the PC when it came out.

As for Doom 1 and 2. I could never play them when they came out. I got very bad motion sickness from them, same with Duke Nukem. Even today when I try and play them again I can only last about 15 mins at a time or else I get bad head aches and want to vomit.

I've tried the Dooms and Duke on the PC, SNES, PS1/2 and 360, makes no difference. The Quake engine does not have that effect on me but poor old Quake, it needs a kick start with Quake 5 asap. 4 near killed it's good name.

Professey Chin

Captain Chaos wrote: »

What do you think you were killing and what planet was the game set on?

I rest my case.

Doom 3 though, it was a solid shooter but was very overlooked except for hardcore Id fans. I though it was fairly good on the PC when it came out.

As for Doom 1 and 2. I could never play them when they came out. I got very bad motion sickness from them, same with Duke Nukem. Even today when I try and play them again I can only last about 15 mins at a time or else I get bad head aches and want to vomit.

I've tried them on the PC, SNES, PS1/2 and 360, makes no difference.

Demons from hell. Not aliens

Captain Chaos

Mega Chin wrote: »

Demons from hell. Not aliens

Ok, alien demons then:D. I thought all the Doom games were set on Mars? Or was that just 3, that's the only one I ever finished.

Professey Chin

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Ok, alien demons then. I though all the Doom games were set on Mars?

They are but the monsters come from hell afaik

barrmur

Anyone remember Serious Sam? OK not a classic for everyone but for pure mayhem and mad amount of weapons and enemies it has to also get a mention.

johnny_ultimate

Captain Chaos wrote: »

What do you think you were killing and what planet was the game set on?

I rest my case.

This is a fellow who seems to suggest that the only way to have a good FPS is 1. to feature demons (demons > aliens, don't you know, according to some looney criteria) 2. not be homosexual in terms of plot (because we all know the homosexual undertones and overtones of Half-Life are significant and distracting to all) and 3. to have as much loud music as humanly possible, since heavy metal is clearly the greatest audio achievement of mankind.

I don't think any case that is presented shall persuade him otherwise.

They see me trollin', they hatin'

Mr. Presentable

From the same era as Doom - Descent was a top notch FPS

Dr Bob

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

From the same era as Doom - Descent was a top notch FPS

Descent was pretty good , but there was a lot of "what way up AM I?!?!?"
If we're talking about early FPSs ..Rise of the Triad was great craic as well.
Oh and I mentioned it elsewhere but "Terminator-Future shock" was great and way ahead of its time.

zero19

ITS_A_BADGER wrote: »

goldeneye 64 i mean come on guys the multiplayer, the missions, just epic

Nah it's aged so badly, at the time it was great sure but now? Not so much.

CiDeRmAn

nyarlothothep wrote: »

I'm just going to go on record here and say hand on heart that Half Life sucks balls. 1. no demons. 2. gay plot. 3. no heavy metal. Its just a sci fi shooter which wins out on convention. I never understood the appeal of Half Life, that said I never understood the appeal of lots of things that are meant to be great but aren't like Planescape and bands like Mastodon or Tool.

Don't even stop to get your coat, we'll post it to whatever gutter you and your taste in games currently reside in...

CiDeRmAn

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

From the same era as Doom - Descent was a top notch FPS

I bought the two Descent games at launch and, well, they emptied themselves all over Doom, a proper 3D fps, endlessly interesting, the rush as you hunt for the exit after the reactor goes critical is brilliant.
I still have them for my PS1, great stuff.

KeRbDoG

Azure_sky wrote: »

I still prefer Doom on my PS1 to any of the COD, Halo or GOW games tbh.

Doom system-link death match on the PS1 was great - used to play it lots with a mate using a CD swap trick to allow playing with just one copy of the game. Ah, them were the days

Gonna throw this out there - IMO Halo series has to be one of the most over rated FPS I've ever played

Retr0gamer

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Doom was the dogs nuts but now it is plain it was and remains a key fetching exercise, the game was breathtaking at the time but quickly replaced by more shiny key fetch games like Duke 3D before Half life took the Holland wiped its ass with it.

I wouldn't say that Doom is the best FPS ever because Doom 2 exists and I think there's a very good argument for Doom 2 being the best FPS game ever, yes even better than both half-life games. I say this because there are no other games like Doom or Doom 2 on the PC or consoles. I actually don't feel that Duke Nukem 2D or the other build engine games replaced Doom because they were nothing like doom.

Name any other FPS game were you face as many enemies at the same time as in Doom or Doom 2? Other than Serious Sam or Painkiller you will face at most 5, maybe 10 enemies at the same time. I find Painkiller and Serious Sam to be much inferior games to Doom or Doom 2 because of two things. First the level design of both Doom games is phenomenal, particularly in the second game. The level design in the two pretenders is atrocious. Secondly the 'emergent' (I hate that word) gameplay of Doom is absent, it was always great fun getting enemies to fight each other.

Other FPS games have you tackling only a few enemies at a time. The doom games have you tackling 50, maybe more enemies at the same time, all lobbing bullets and fireballs at you or each other. Doom is all about the dodging and it's super fast, faster than any other FPS out there. If FPS games were like shmups then Cave would be making the Doom games.

For over the top fast paced visceral FPS action Doom can't be topped. There is one game that does come close and it might surprise you when I say it's Halo. The combat in Halo is the closest any FPS has gotten to doom. However I fails in the level design department to Doom which I think hasn't been matched to this day. It might just be a key hunt in a maze but it does it better than any game out there. Id have described the process behind making Doom as trying to make Gauntlet in 3D and I think that describes the game brilliantly and no other FPS game can fit that description.

nyarlothothep

What?! 1. Demons are better than generic low poly aliens, demons are scary, demons are badass, aliens are just like yeah whatever, generic alien is trying to attack me, blah. Don't tell me you didn't jump out of your seat and go wtf!? when you were playing the Phobos Anomaly and 2 Barons of Hell just suddenly appear. A David vs Goliath battle, the whole level is eerie, you know its building up to something and then bam! not 1 but 2 Barons of Hell! 2. I didn't mean gay as in homosexual 3. Heavy metal is best form of music apart from classical music known to man or woman. Anyone who disagree with me is wrong.

The awesomeness of Doom is that you don't need a plot, its co-authorial, thats like ten times more intelligent than the plot to Half Life, the player gets to fill in the missing parts of the plot based on ques like level designs, enemies and so on. Its got to be the most bad ass game of all time, not like Half Life or Goldeneye, the only games that are in the same league are Heretic, Descent, Hexen and Quake. FYI, yes the first 8 levels are on Phobos but the Shores of Hell episode are on Deimos, except the demons have tranported the moon to hell! Incidentally has anyone read the excellent Doom books? I've read all four, they're really good. Doom was made by people like me for people like me, I don't want long expositions with bad voice acting about plots I don't care for, I just metal, beer and demons to shoot at.

Retr0gamer

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I bought the two Descent games at launch and, well, they emptied themselves all over Doom, a proper 3D fps, endlessly interesting, the rush as you hunt for the exit after the reactor goes critical is brilliant.
I still have them for my PS1, great stuff.

Descent was fantastic, not sure how anyone played it on the PS1 though. Even with a mouse it was damn confusing. However it gets repetitive very quickly and I could only play a few levels at a time while Doom I could play for ages.

nyarlothothep

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I wouldn't say that Doom is the best FPS ever because Doom 2 exists and I think there's a very good argument for Doom 2 being the best FPS game ever, yes even better than both half-life games. I say this because there are no other games like Doom or Doom 2 on the PC or consoles. I actually don't feel that Duke Nukem 2D or the other build engine games replaced Doom because they were nothing like doom.

Name any other FPS game were you face as many enemies at the same time as in Doom or Doom 2? Other than Serious Sam or Painkiller you will face at most 5, maybe 10 enemies at the same time. I find Painkiller and Serious Sam to be much inferior games to Doom or Doom 2 because of two things. First the level design of both Doom games is phenomenal, particularly in the second game. The level design in the two pretenders is atrocious. Secondly the 'emergent' (I hate that word) gameplay of Doom is absent, it was always great fun getting enemies to fight each other.

Other FPS games have you tackling only a few enemies at a time. The doom games have you tackling 50, maybe more enemies at the same time, all lobbing bullets and fireballs at you or each other. Doom is all about the dodging and it's super fast, faster than any other FPS out there. If FPS games were like shmups then Cave would be making the Doom games.

For over the top fast paced visceral FPS action Doom can't be topped. There is one game that does come close and it might surprise you when I say it's Halo. The combat in Halo is the closest any FPS has gotten to doom. However I fails in the level design department to Doom which I think hasn't been matched to this day. It might just be a key hunt in a maze but it does it better than any game out there. Id have described the process behind making Doom as trying to make Gauntlet in 3D and I think that describes the game brilliantly and no other FPS game can fit that description.

I think the genius aspects of Doom and Quake are attributable to John Romero. He was the one who thought it would be a good idea to make a Lovecraft inspired shooter (Quake) and it worked brilliantly, the fusion of gothic medieval environments with clunky medieval styled sci fi weaponry and the general atmosphere of creepiness made it one of the most atmospheric shooters I've ever played. And this is the same with Doom, yes the physics of the game are basic, you can't look up or down, but the delivery, the style, the design are all part of what some would dismiss as a keyhunt shooter game. And that's where it really wins out, people are either on the train or not for it, but if you are then it really can't be bested. No other game has come close to the sheer badassedness of Doom or Quake, and I would attribute a good bit of that to John Romero. Very few games if any are as unique as these because developers stick too much to the standard rules of the genre.

johnny_ultimate

nyarlothothep wrote: »

What?! 1. Demons are better than generic low poly aliens, demons are scary, demons are badass, aliens are just like yeah whatever, generic alien is trying to attack me, blah. Don't tell me you didn't jump out of your seat and go wtf!? when you were playing the Phobos Anomaly and 2 Barons of Hell just suddenly appear. A David vs Goliath battle, the whole level is eerie, you know its building up to something and then bam! not 1 but 2 Barons of Hell!

Uh-huh.

2. I didn't mean gay as in homosexual

Happy?

3. Heavy metal is best form of music apart from classical music known to man or woman. Anyone who disagree with me is wrong.

Hello, my name is Johnny, and someone on the Internet just said I'm wrong. I'm cool with that.

I should point out at this juncture I have nothing at all against Doom, it's a fantastic game that I haven't spent nearly enough time with over the years. I have something against bull****, however, and people portraying ignorance as opinion.

nyarlothothep

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Uh-huh.



Happy?



Hello, my name is Johnny, and someone on the Internet just said I'm wrong. I'm cool with that.

I should point out at this juncture I have nothing at all against Doom, it's a fantastic game that I haven't spent nearly enough time with over the years. I have something against bull****, however, and people portraying ignorance as opinion.

1. mmm hmm.
2. I'm generally pleased with my explanation so yes.
3. You see you actually agree with me, by your own admission you acknowledge that its the greatest game ever, just accept it, its awesome you love it and can't enough of it.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

descent 1 and 2 were ****ing amazing at the time, so many happy hours spent flying around shooting those robots/aliens and the adrenaline fueled escape when the reactor was freaking out at the end of a level was always fantastic

they haven't aged nearly as well as doom/quake though, d/quake I can happily go back and play. I play through quake 1 and the expansions at least once a year but I tried to play descent 1 and 2 this year for the first time this millenium and by god... it was dissapointing. I've always scoffed at people saying they can't go back and replay their old games because of how bad they look, but in the case of the first two descents I'm sad to say I'll have to count myself in their number.

o1s1n

This thread makes my head go -



Doom has a heavy metal soundtrack?

Are you sure you just didn't just accidentally leave Metallica playing on your stereo in the background?

Retr0gamer

o1s1n wrote: »

Are you sure you just didn't just accidentally leave Metallica playing on your stereo in the background?

Doom didn't so much as have a heavy metal soundtrack as out right stole famous heavy metal tracks and use midi versions as the games soundtrack. Well on the PC anyway. Metallica, Sepultura, alice in chains, etc. They're all there getting their copyrights infringed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54dH1GJ6VRM

o1s1n

Alice in Chains aren't heavy metal

They may have similar tunes, but they're midi. So are as metal as this -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z67IqrmygZY

Retr0gamer

Well it's not just alice in chains. Also if you knew what you were doing and had a good soundcard you could change the midi instruments and make it sound a lot better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IXNpPhfk1s

batari

Holy crap, that 'Them Bones' is pretty blatant. And for anyone here that hasn't listened to 'Dirt' go acquire it legally right now. Brilliant album.

nyarlothothep

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well it's not just alice in chains. Also if you knew what you were doing and had a good soundcard you could change the midi instruments and make it sound a lot better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IXNpPhfk1s

Actually there's a whole community out there for reworking Doom songs, some of the results are quite good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgnVr9xUNAE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XPua_StSK0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsK6J7NtdkU

This one has vocals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXMBxS56Sjs

DjFlin

Love Doom, play the Xbox 360 port of it quite a bit. However, I think I prefer Duke Nukem 3D.

TechnoFreek

Rick Deckard wrote: »

If you still have it on the ps1, look up code for the hidden "club doom" level.

It was set in a nightclub and had a stomping german hardcore soundtrack.

hehe, excellent!

Dr Bob

TechnoFreek wrote: »

hehe, excellent!

it is indeed , you dont often see revenants in a disco setting.
I just had a crack at it there on the PSX now , (cough by way of a password, as I havent played doom in a while)

Retr0gamer

PS1 version is good but it's missing some of the best levels in both games. The omission of The Living End is pretty bad since It's probably my favourite FPS level ever.

CiDeRmAn

Retr0 and nyarlothothep, you guys should get a room, all this Doom lovin is sending my blood sugars through the roof!

And Romero? Another feature on our "Where are they now?" slot I reckon.
Amazing a man with an ego that size made it out of the 90's in one piece, Daikatana anyone?
And don't even try to say that was a good game, just don't go there.

And as for fighting all those demons at once, not exactly bullet hell, I'm sure there were less paper thing demon hordes bearing down on you than you think.
And the atmosphere is purely down to a small colour palette and the reuse of assets everywhere.

Quake, for me, was much much better, plus you got some proper music, courtesy of Mr Reznor, which is nice!

Doom had it's day, it's over now, it's like Galaga I guess, still great but no one in there right mind considers it to be the best any more.

Oh, and for the two mentioned at the top of the post,
I think if you run you can catch the bus back home to Wrongtown, but only if you hurry!

Retr0gamer

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

And Romero? Another feature on our "Where are they now?" slot I reckon.
Amazing a man with an ego that size made it out of the 90's in one piece, Daikatana anyone?
And don't even try to say that was a good game, just don't go there.

And as for fighting all those demons at once, not exactly bullet hell, I'm sure there were less paper thing demon hordes bearing down on you than you think.

Romero was an amazing level designer and a great game designer who mistakenly thought he was good at managing a production team and failed miserably. If you read up on daikatana you will see that it wasn't due to the guys talents that daikatana turned out bad but due to bad management on his part, being too ambitious and hiring a bunch of amateur assholes.

As for not may demons bearing down on the player? Only some one that wusses out and doesn't play the game on Ultra Violence would say that.

I'd take the single player aspect of Doom over Quake anyday, it's a much better game. Multiplayer quake wins by a long shot but it's the only thing really it has going for it. Quake in single player really isn't that good and again you've only got maybe 3 enemies on screen at once. Combat, enemies and weapons are bland and saved by some excellent level design courtesy of mr. romero.

As for being in Wrongtown, I'm not the Halo fan, I have taste in FPS games :P

CiDeRmAn

Retr0gamer wrote: »

As for being in Wrongtown, I'm not the Halo fan, I have taste in FPS games :P

Ah now Retr0, you don't, not really.
It's ok though, you know a great deal about everything else.

Rage looks like derivative pants, glad I got Dark Souls instead!

So, what is the next great FPS going to be, Colonial Marines looks like fun, none of this years contenders have amounted to a hill of beans, Bulletstorm is the best of them, with Brink, Duke and Bodycount being wash outs.

Retr0gamer

Deus Ex probably. Possibly whatever GSC gameworld is making since the stalker games are the onlyFPS game that are even the slightest bit progressive.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Possibly whatever GSC gameworld is making since the stalker games are the onlyFPS game that are even the slightest bit progressive.

I can't thank this post twice so I thought I'd just quote this and say I'd like to be able to thank this twice.

johnny_ultimate

Bioshock: Infinite looks absolutely fascinating. That's my great hope.

Cue inevitable 'it's clearly going to be dumbed down from System Shock 2' whinging