1 bike for winter training / cyclo cross feck-acting?

fat bloke

As I was saying on another thread, I've to retire my current winter bike and replace it with something. Waiting for a bike fitting next weekend before I actually buy something, but I'm still trying to make up my mind what exactly I should be looking for.

Anyway, turns out there's cyclocross training on tuesday nights only down the road from me so it got me to thinking if I should get a cyclocross bike altogether. I could try out the dirty stuff, and use it for a bit of training/craic, and lob a set of road wheels on it for winter road training.

I have seen people using cross frames as winter trainers before. Apart from being a little on the porky side (the bike...) is there anything else I should be aware of?

Also, what kind of gearing do lads use on cross bikes? Is it usually compact chainsets? I can't imagine that I'd see much 40kph, 53x11 action on a muddy field in Firhouse!

thehamo

fat bloke wrote: »

As I was saying on another thread, I've to retire my current winter bike and replace it with something. Waiting for a bike fitting next weekend before I actually buy something, but I'm still trying to make up my mind what exactly I should be looking for.

Anyway, turns out there's cyclocross training on tuesday nights only down the road from me so it got me to thinking if I should get a cyclocross bike altogether. I could try out the dirty stuff, and use it for a bit of training/craic, and lob a set of road wheels on it for winter road training.

I have seen people using cross frames as winter trainers before. Apart from being a little on the porky side (the bike...) is there anything else I should be aware of?

Also, what kind of gearing do lads use on cross bikes? Is it usually compact chainsets? I can't imagine that I'd see much 40kph, 53x11 action on a muddy field in Firhouse!

I just swapped a cross bike for a road bike. Main reasons I swapped over was frame geometry, and brakes. Bike was light as you'd get for an entry level road bike but frame geometry was more for racing than anything else. Also canti brakes on most cross bikes which can be a bit temperamental. Usual gearing would be about 48/34t and 12-28 on the back. Sometimes smaller. That's all really other than that I can't really help you!

fat bloke

thehamo wrote: »

I just swapped a cross bike for a road bike. Main reasons I swapped over was frame geometry, and brakes. Bike was light as you'd get for an entry level road bike but frame geometry was more for racing than anything else. Also canti brakes on most cross bikes which can be a bit temperamental. Usual gearing would be about 48/34t and 12-28 on the back. Sometimes smaller. That's all really other than that I can't really help you!

Cheers.

Just checked the times of the Woodstown training and it clashes with my daughters cub scout night anyway .

Boo.

blorg

It is certainly possible. You would want to budget for a second wheelset as changing tyres would be a pain. Also it won't be as fast as a similarly priced road bike; I found it more difficult to keep up on club spins compared to my winter road bike.

midonogh

I had the same idea last year. I got the bike made up and used the gruopset from my old road bike. As a consequence the gearing was fine and I ad no problem keeping up on our clubs Saturday morning spins.

This year I have bought a dedicated winter trainer/commuter. The sole reason is that the canti brakes are not as strong as conventional dual pivot. I was in continual fear that someday a dog was going to run out in front of our Sat am spin, everyone was going to go hard on their brakes and that I would go ploughng thrugh the group as my stopping power was so reduced. Same concerns with riding through traffic on my commute.

I recognise that I am not the best at setting up canti's, but have the benefit of an excellent old school mechanic in my LBS (Pat at TMG in Skerries). When Pat set the brakes up for me there was a massive improvement, but they are still not as strong as dual pivots. I have sought advice from experienced cross riders and the largely say the same - cantis are perfect for cross but not for when you are riding in a bunch surrounded by people on dual pivots.

I run Tekrp Oynx short pull brakes which are fairly entry level, hwever I have been advised that even a significant upgrade will not solve my problem.

If you can get the cross bike anyway it is great fun. If you are going to use it as a winter trainer have a good look at you brake options

cython

midonogh wrote: »

This year I have bought a dedicated winter trainer/commuter. The sole reason is that the canti brakes are not as strong as conventional dual pivot. I was in continual fear that someday a dog was going to run out in front of our Sat am spin, everyone was going to go hard on their brakes and that I would go ploughng thrugh the group as my stopping power was so reduced. Same concerns with riding through traffic on my commute.

Or you could just HTFU and stay on the front at all times so that only you and the dog would be at risk :P :pac:

dave_o_brien

So does anyone have any advice as to a good value cross frame and forks? I'm having thoughts along these lines too; I have a winter/commuting bike and a race bike, but am thinking I'd like the commuting bike to be able to handle cross... Then I'd sell the frameset and brakes off the current trainer and get the cross frame built up with those parts. The problem is, I haven't found any frames that tick all the boxes. I also like the idea of running discs so studded tires can be lobbed on if/when the snow comes down.

So recommendations?! If there are no reasonable bargains to be had, I may just put it of for a year and pick up a dedicated cross bike next year.

Raam

I don't really like riding my cross bike on the road or in a bunch. The BB is higher and the chain stays are longer. For me, it makes the handling much different.

levitronix

when and where is the wooodstown training happening , might look into this

fat bloke

Seems to be tuesdays 7 pm on the big green area there at the back of Woodstown.

Or if want you could take my kids to cub scouts? It's mighty craic, honestly?

dooverylittle

Raam wrote: »

I don't really like riding my cross bike on the road or in a bunch. The BB is higher and the chain stays are longer. For me, it makes the handling much different.

Do you set your cross bike up the same as your road bike? ie distance from saddle centre to handle bars and saddle height? When I set my cross up the same as my road bike I can clearly see the axel in front of the handle bars. Is this Ok for a cross bike? I know its only a guide for road bikes and lots of people think its rubbish.
Sorry to rob the thread! its kind of related!

Tenzor07

Another thread on it here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056020598

Lumen

I had no problems handling-wise with group spins on my cyclocross bike (Planet X Uncle John), and that did have quite non-racy geometry.

The horrendous brake squeal was quite embarrassing though.

Unless you have Nibali-esque descending skills you want to make sure that you're not riding in a group on a bike with much less grip than everyone else, or else when you hit a fast descent you'll be the muppet that crashes.

This happened to me recently on a different bike. Fortunately I was so slow I'd been dropped already so no one else got hurt.

Raam

dooverylittle wrote: »

Do you set your cross bike up the same as your road bike? ie distance from saddle centre to handle bars and saddle height? When I set my cross up the same as my road bike I can clearly see the axel in front of the handle bars. Is this Ok for a cross bike? I know its only a guide for road bikes and lots of people think its rubbish.
Sorry to rob the thread! its kind of related!

I'm far from experienced at cross, but mine would be less aggressive. If you watch the pro guys, they ride most of the race on the hoods. For handling the tricky ground, I prefer to have the bars higher up, but that might just be me.

dave_o_brien

Raam wrote: »

I don't really like riding my cross bike on the road or in a bunch. The BB is higher and the chain stays are longer. For me, it makes the handling much different.

That's fair enough, I can see how the handling would be different. But is it the unfamiliarity that causes you to not enjoy riding it in a group, or is the handling adversely affected?

dave_o_brien

Lumen wrote: »

I had no problems handling-wise with group spins on my cyclocross bike (Planet X Uncle John), and that did have quite non-racy geometry.

The horrendous brake squeal was quite embarrassing though.

Unless you have Nibali-esque descending skills you want to make sure that you're not riding in a group on a bike with much less grip than everyone else, or else when you hit a fast descent you'll be the muppet that crashes.

This happened to me recently on a different bike. Fortunately I was so slow I'd been dropped already so no one else got hurt.

How does it have less grip? By this, I mean I'd train on it with road tires and do cross with cross tires, so I don't understand how that would affect the grip... Feel, sure, which would affect handling(possibly)and my preference would be for discs, so unconcerned about braking quality too.

Still, unless a frame that's very good value crops up, I think I'll stick to the road bike until I have enough cash to get another bike. I need a bigger shed...

blorg

@dave- a MTB with non-studded tyres is substantially better in snow than a cross bike with studded tyres.

Raam

dave_o_brien wrote: »

That's fair enough, I can see how the handling would be different. But is it the unfamiliarity that causes you to not enjoy riding it in a group, or is the handling adversely affected?

I have spoken with a better CX rider who races his on the road and he claims that it doesn't corner anything near as good as a road bike. I would agree with him. I only rode my CX on the road cos the road bike was briefly out of action.

Lumen

dave_o_brien wrote: »

How does it have less grip?

It's higher and longer. Tall, long things tend to change direction with more difficulty. For instance, a dog can change direction faster than a giraffe.

I don't know about static grip on some theoretical perfect bend, but for the "oh ****, there's some gravel which I want to avoid" type scenarios I'd rather be on a racy road bike, and not behind someone on a CX bike, unless they're Sean Kelly or Robin Seymour.

blorg

As people have said its not as flickable as a road bike but that really isn't a problem for club spins, IMO.

columbus_66

I had a lot of hassle trying to fit mudguards onto a racing bike for the winter so I got a Focus Mares cyclocross bike and it has been great, thanks Lumen (his old bike). I can now fit strong mudguards on without fear of clogging up, I can ride up 43c wide tyres, and I can do the cyclocross as well. I don't find the frame or position uncomfortable even though the geometry is not perfect for road cycling and the frame is as stiff as a brick! It's versatility is great.

dave_o_brien

Lumen wrote: »

It's higher and longer. Tall, long things tend to change direction with more difficulty. For instance, a dog can change direction faster than a giraffe.

I don't know about static grip on some theoretical perfect bend, but for the "oh ****, there's some gravel which I want to avoid" type scenarios I'd rather be on a racy road bike, and not behind someone on a CX bike, unless they're Sean Kelly or Robin Seymour.

That makes a lot of sense; the higher the centre of gravity, the less stable it's going to be, especially when banking...

@Raam and blorg, I certainly wouldn't ecpect one to be anywhere near a road bike in terms of responsiveness, etc, but glad to hear opinions.

Needless to say, I'm just gonna save for a cross bike next season!

dave_o_brien

columbus_66 wrote: »

I had a lot of hassle trying to fit mudguards onto a racing bike for the winter so I got a Focus Mares cyclocross bike and it has been great, thanks Lumen (his old bike). I can now fit strong mudguards on without fear of clogging up, I can ride up 43c wide tyres, and I can do the cyclocross as well. I don't find the frame or position uncomfortable even though the geometry is not perfect for road cycling and the frame is as stiff as a brick! It's versatility is great.

You see, I have a road bike with decent guards for winter, and even touring with 15kg, 25mm tyres never gave me too much guff... So while the versatility of the bike appeals to me, I think I am coming round to the opinion that if you get a good cross bike like the Mares, you get a good cross bike, and it's alright on the road, not ideal, but fine. Given I have a bike that very good on the road, and fitted with everything I need for winter training and commuting, I think I'll stick with it, as I think if I do change, I'll feel the negatives more frequently (like, everyday!) than the benefits of the versatility.

Also, @blorgs previous comment about mtb's being better in the snow, fair point. When the snow cometh, I'll have another excuse to get out on/own that bike then!

dooverylittle

I have a Focus Mare CX 3. I use it for cross, commuting and after work training. It is more difficult to lean into corners then on a road bike and the front end feels more lively. However I dont agree that the breaks are not as good as a road bike. In the wet the cross breaks "avid shorty 4's" are fantastic.

This is only my opinnion and others opinninons may well be better informed.

Some of the posts here make it sound like it is suicide to go out on the road on a cross bike!