Pneumonia in weanlings

RobinBanks

Hi All,

Just wondering do many of ye have issues with pneumonia in weanlings? Last year was the first time I noticed a nasal discharge from allot of the weans after I weaned them. So based on that, this year I took some preventive measures, or so I thought!

About 3 weeks ago I vacinated all the weanlings with Bovipast RSP and Bovilis IBR. Both were recommended by the local pharmacist. I weaned the heifers last week. Some were housed, some that were to young to wean were left out. Nearly all have this white mucus and some have a slight cough. There are all grubing away as normal and dont seem to be in any distress.

So I wonder, am i doing something wrong? maybe I am not administering the vaccation correctly. Its under the skin which seems straight forward. Or is it because of the wet weather or what. Its annoying because the vaccine seems like a waste of money to me at the moment. Then again maybe this is common?

LostCovey

RobinBanks wrote: »

Hi All,

Just wondering do many of ye have issues with pneumonia in weanlings? Last year was the first time I noticed a nasal discharge from allot of the weans after I weaned them. So based on that, this year I took some preventive measures, or so I thought!

About 3 weeks ago I vacinated all the weanlings with Bovipast RSP and Bovilis IBR. Both were recommended by the local pharmacist. I weaned the heifers last week. Some were housed, some that were to young to wean were left out. Nearly all have this white mucus and some have a slight cough. There are all grubing away as normal and dont seem to be in any distress.

So I wonder, am i doing something wrong? maybe I am not administering the vaccation correctly. Its under the skin which seems straight forward. Or is it because of the wet weather or what. Its annoying because the vaccine seems like a waste of money to me at the moment. Then again maybe this is common?

A few things strike me straight away. I could be wrong, and if I am someone will tell me here.

- I am led to believe that pneumonia vaccines that you give under the skin are an utter waste of time & money, because they are far less effective than the ones you squirt up the nose.

- I also believe that if you ask a pharmacist for advice they will sell you something

- I personally find pharmacists don't know much about cattle.

Now that's all my prejudices in one handy message.

The other thing that comes to mind Robin is - why are you calling it pneumonia if they are grubbing well and don't get sick? - maybe its some minor relatively harmless virus taking advantage of them being a bit stressed after weaning

LostCovey

RobinBanks

LostCovey wrote: »

The other thing that comes to mind Robin is - why are you calling it pneumonia if they are grubbing well and don't get sick? - maybe its some minor relatively harmless virus taking advantage of them being a bit stressed after weaning

LostCovey

Thanks for the feedback lost covey. I am calling it pneumonia because when i looked up nasal discharge on the net thats what came up! I agree that its not full blown pneumonia but a touch of it!

greysides

RobinBanks wrote: »

About 3 weeks ago I vacinated all the weanlings with Bovipast RSP and Bovilis IBR.

So I wonder, am i doing something wrong? maybe I am not administering the vaccation correctly. Its under the skin which seems straight forward.

Bovipast RSP is given subcut, primary course is two injections 4 weeks apart.

Bovilis IBR marker live is a single shot primary course given intramuscularly or intranasally.

Bovilis IBR Marker Inactive has a primary course of two shots given intramuscularly 4 weeks apart.

So, the questions are.. have they recieved the vaccines in the advised location and have they recieved a second shot where necessary?

Are they covered for Hoose?

LostCovey

RobinBanks wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback lost covey. I am calling it pneumonia because when i looked up nasal discharge on the net thats what came up! I agree that its not full blown pneumonia but a touch of it!

Well I am not splitting hairs with you, but if they are not panting, running a temperature, grubbing and lively, it seems unlikely.

Having said all I said about injectable vaccines, I can't say they have failed if you have no real pneumonia!

LC

LostCovey

greysides wrote: »

Are they covered for Hoose?

Just curious.

With no cough, no panting and a nasal discharge, is hoose really likely to be involved Greysides?

LC

RobinBanks

greysides wrote: »

Bovipast RSP is given subcut, primary course is two injections 4 weeks apart.

Bovilis IBR marker live is a single shot primary course given intramuscularly or intranasally.

Bovilis IBR Marker Inactive has a primary course of two shots given intramuscularly 4 weeks apart.

So, the questions are.. have they recieved the vaccines in the advised location and have they recieved a second shot where necessary?

Are they covered for Hoose?

Greysides. Answers to you're questions are as follows.

They were dosed 3 weeks ago with Bovipast (5ml under the skin) and Bovilis marker live. (2ml into the muscle)

They haven't received a second shot yet.

I injected them with Vibramac in July. That's the only time they have ever been vaccinated.

I suspect I should have covered again for hooves when i vaccinated against pneumonia??

TUBBY

Hi lads

It sounds to me more like just a chill that a few have picked up. The nasal discharge on its own is no major panic. Were they running a very high temp 106-107.

I've had a few with chills in the last few weeks especially in poorly sheltered fields. A shot of Duphacycline has cleared that up. Spoke to a vet couple of days back and he said there is very little pneumonia this year yet.

If they have a few of these symptoms; green/white discharge from nose; runny eyes, ears are droopy, coat dead looking, lying away from herd, not grazing or refeeding much - then i would start to get worried.

I think when you are dealing with calves, there is a natural tendency to worry about the slightest sign of any prob cause nobody wants to think they are heedless.

One question, did you buy in any cattle lately from mart. If you have a closed herd, i would think it unlikely you have a virus in.

greysides

LostCovey wrote: »

Just curious.

With no cough, no panting and a nasal discharge, is hoose really likely to be involved Greysides?

LC

There was mention of 'a slight cough'. I doubt Hoose is a major player but if it were present it would help things turn bad.
I've noticed cattle with Hoose often have a nasal discharge too so I suspect where the respiratory system is compromised it's easier for any of the bugs around to get a leg up towards causing a problem.

It's more of a 'holistic' approach to the situation.

greysides

RobinBanks wrote: »

Greysides. Answers to you're questions are as follows.

They were dosed 3 weeks ago with Bovipast (5ml under the skin) and Bovilis marker live. (2ml into the muscle)

That's grand, the OP left a little bit of doubt in my mind about how the vaccines had been used but that's as per datasheet.
The only comment there is the IBR vaccine would work a little quicker given down the nose.

An increase in immunity has been demonstrated 4 days after intranasal vaccination and 14 days after intramuscular vaccination of 3 month old seronegative animals.

They haven't received a second shot yet.

Fair enough, I should have worked that out from the OP. With vaccines that need a second shot, the first is a sensitiser. It's benefit on its own is minimal, it sets up the immune system to respond with 'all guns blazing' to the second shot and it's the second shot that does the business. So you've still the major benefit from that vaccine yet to come.

Approximately two weeks after completion of the basic immunisation programme, the humoral immune response against BRS-Virus and PI3-Virus is at its highest level.

Ideally, if it could be timed to be done earlier next year it would be more use as you may now be vaccinating animals that already have the virus going through them.

I injected them with Vibramec in July. That's the only time they have ever been dosed.

I suspect I should have covered again for hoose when i vaccinated against pneumonia??

The dosing regieme for weanlings is always a little more difficult to work out than for dairy calves. They are largely well able to cope with reasonable pasture infection levels. The July dose was timely and should probably be considered as 'routine' for weanlings. After that it becomes more tricky. The 'cop out' response is to suggest you faecal sample before any further dosing; in lieu of that I think keeping a close eye on growth rate and dirty backsides gives an indication of what's what. If stomach worms are around, hoose will be around too. While stomach worms build up gradually on pasture and in animals Hoose is much more explosive. It is genuinely hard to call dosing specifically for Hoose. If you've had problems before then it makes sense to be more thorough in your preventative measures.

Without knowing specifics I'd be inclined to go along with the other opinions offered above. It's more a case of keeping a close watch (on the lines of Tubbies warning signs) than of worrying too much just yet.

If possible when you're housing them spread out over as many sheds/divisions as feasible, tighten them up as time goes on. If you can keep a distance between them and last years weanlings all the better. They would be a source of infection..........but it's only a little help as the cows may be a source too.

LostCovey

greysides wrote: »

There was mention of 'a slight cough'. I doubt Hoose is a major player but if it were present it would help things turn bad.
I've noticed cattle with Hoose often have a nasal discharge too so I suspect where the respiratory system is compromised it's easier for any of the bugs around to get a leg up towards causing a problem.

It's more of a 'holistic' approach to the situation.

Fair comment.

You also read the OPs post more thoroughly than I did.

snowman707

Op

have you taken their temperature ? that would have been my first port of call.

vaccines can give a rise in body temp for few days but this is harmless


I think it's best to discuss with your vet re dosing and vaccination as he/she usually know the herd history. maybe take a few nasal swabs and dung samples for analysis

Muckit

greysides wrote: »

The July dose was timely and should probably be considered as 'routine' for weanlings. After that it becomes more tricky. The 'cop out' response is to suggest you faecal sample before any further dosing; in lieu of that I think keeping a close eye on growth rate and dirty backsides gives an indication of what's what. If stomach worms are around, hoose will be around too. While stomach worms build up gradually on pasture and in animals Hoose is much more explosive.

H greysides

Poor growth rate and dirty backsides in weanlings would be a sign of..... hoose, stomach worms??

greysides

Muckit wrote: »

H greysides

Poor growth rate and dirty backsides in weanlings would be a sign of..... hoose, stomach worms??

A sign of Stomach worms much more than Hoose BUT.... the lack of dosing that allows Stomach worms will also facilitate Hoose.

Animals with Hoose will often show a mildly dirty backside as the gut is damaged as the larvae pass through it. Animals with acute hoose will usually be more panting than coughing and be in good condition; in animals with more chronic hoose the coughing will be more dominant and they can look quite thin.

greysides

snowman707 wrote: »

Op

have you taken their temperature ? that would have been my first port of call.

vaccines can give a rise in body temp for few days but this is harmless

If the viral infection is a couple of days old the temp may be just above normal rather than much higher as it would be in the early stages.
A secondary viral infection with hoose will give about the same degree of temp rise. So, temp needs to be interpreted carefully.

I think it's best to discuss with your vet re dosing and vaccination as he/she usually know the herd history. maybe take a few nasal swabs and dung samples for analysis

It would always be best to discuss things with your own vet for the reasons given but it would make life very boring if that meant we couldn't discuss it here also.
I wouldn't relie too much on nasal swabs, they have a habit of coming back negative regardless. If they do show up something well then that can be depended upon.

RobinBanks

Update: I had the vet out this morning to look at a bull weanling that is lame. I also asked her to look at the other weans. She said that two of them needed an antibiotic. So she injected them at the time and left me a bottle of Alamycin to give over the next few days.