Lions 2013 players impressing at RWC

wixfjord

totallegend wrote: »

Stuart Barnes Lions 2013 XV:
Halfpenny
North
Tuilagi
Roberts
Ashton
Sexton
Youngs
Faletau
warburton
O'Brien
Gray
Charteris
A Jones
Best
G Jenkins

Hard to argue with most of that

Good team, but I don't think Charteris, Faletau, Tuilagi and Halfpenny are the required standard for Lions tbh. Give me Lawes, Heaslip, BOD/Davies and Kearney/Hook any day.
That's more of a "Best Lions team of the WC", than a 2013 Lions team.

Brendan97

roycon wrote: »

EARLS you must be having a laugh. shouldn't even start on the irish team

At the start i was in favour of Trimble starting ahead of him, but you can't deny Earls has had a fairly good world cup.

wixfjord

Brendan97 wrote: »

At the start i was in favour of Trimble starting ahead of him, but you can't deny Earls has had a fairly good world cup.

Oh yes you can!
Tries don't necessarily mean he's played well.

Fireball07

totallegend wrote: »

Stuart Barnes Lions 2013 XV:
Halfpenny
North
Tuilagi
Roberts
Ashton
Sexton
Youngs
Faletau
warburton
O'Brien
Gray
Charteris
A Jones
Best
G Jenkins

Hard to argue with most of that

Charteris?? Tbh I think both Davies and Jones are better than him, not to mention Lawes and I think O'Connell could still be going strong.

And I don't think Faletau will be ahead of Ferris/Heaslip, if they're still on form.

Cpt_Blackbeard

wixfjord wrote: »

Oh yes you can!
Tries don't necessarily mean he's played well.

If posters got their way and Trimble and Sexton started for Ireland, who would have scored for us?

durkadurka

We'll never know

totallegend

This is not an Ireland selection thread.

On Barnes' proposed selection, it's hard to argue based on RWC form alone; was Faletau better than Heaslip, Charteris better than Lawes? Yes. People forget that Halfpenny was a Lion two years ago, he's nailed on to be a tourist at least this time around and if he gets sustained game time for Wales at 15 (Lee Byrne looks like he's finished and Hook is not a FB), he could well be in line for a test jersey.

Realistically though, the Lions squad will be based on the 2012-13 HEC and the 2013 Six Nations, still a long way off, but Wales are positioning themselves nicely to have the Lions* share of the seats on the plan, both in terms of performances and age profile.

*pun intended, I'll get my coat.

razorblunt

totallegend wrote: »

This is not an Ireland selection thread.

On Barnes' proposed selection, it's hard to argue based on RWC form alone; was Faletau better than Heaslip, Charteris better than Lawes? Yes. People forget that Halfpenny was a Lion two years ago, he's nailed on to be a tourist at least this time around and if he gets sustained game time for Wales at 15 (Lee Byrne looks like he's finished and Hook is not a FB), he could well be in line for a test jersey.

Realistically though, the Lions squad will be based on the 2012-13 HEC and the 2013 Six Nations, still a long way off, but Wales are positioning themselves nicely to have the Lions* share of the seats on the plan, both in terms of performances and age profile.

*pun intended, I'll get my coat.

I hope you don't take any pride in that!

Cool_CM

It is still a long way away, but the dates for the Lions tour have come out, kicking off with a match in Hong Kong against the Barbarians:

Fixtures wrote:

Date - Match - Location:

Sat, June 1: Lions v Barbarians - Hong Kong
Wed, June 5: Lions v Western Force - Perth
Sat, June 8: Lions v QLD Reds - Brisbane
Wed, June 12: Lions v Combined NSW & Queensland Country - Newcastle
Sat, June 15: Lions v NSW Waratahs - Sydney
Tue, June 18: Lions v ACT Brumbies - Canberra
Sat, June 22: Lions v Australia - Brisbane
Tue, June 25: Lions v Melbourne Rebels - Melbourne
Sat, June 29: Lions v Australia - Melbourne
Sat, July 6: Lions v Australia - Sydney

http://breakingnews.ie/sport/dates-confirmed-for-lions-tour-530116.html

CatFromHue

That fixture list is so much stronger than the last time we were down there.

To jog your memory two of the teams we played games were Western Australia (116-10) and the Queensland Presidents XV (83-6).

This tour could also do a lot for rugby in OZ. Western Force and the Melbourne Rebels will have been in existence a few years then and will hopefully have built up a following. Having a touring B&I Lions team come to town should be a great occasion.

It'll be interesting to see the logistics of this. Look at the first week for example; Hong Kong to Perth is nearly 8 hours and then Perth to Brisbane is nearly 6 hours or so. The travelling quietens down then but games will be coming thick and fast.

thomond2006

What is really different in terms of the club games is the Super 15 sides will be in mid season rather than post season. The Super Rugby season doesn't finish till August IIRC, the mid-year tests are a break in the middle of S15. This year the season as shorter due to the World Cup.

My point is the club games will probably be more difficult now and hopefully the Wallaby squad members will be released for the Western Force and QLD Reds fixture.

Podge_irl

Much stronger opposition then in SA - that can only be of benefit to the squad in the lead up to the tests.

CatFromHue

I'd be surprised if they were released for the Force or Reds games the season has become very long down there now.

To an extent last season but it will be a necessity from next season on for Super rugby teams to actually rest/rotate their squads due to the expanded Super 15 comp, new 4 Nations, and the three test Summer tours. They've never had such a congested fixture list so this will be a first for them.

eigrod

McGeechan not being ruled out to coach the team AGAIN. I dunno, I think they should just bite the bullet and move on.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/1129/1224308280151.html

PAUL REES

THE LIONS will appoint a head coach for the 2013 tour to Australia a month after the end of the Six Nations, and they have not ruled out Ian McGeechan taking charge for a fifth time.


McGeechan said at the end of the 2009 trip to South Africa that he did not anticipate being involved in the game full time four years later. He has since become Bath’s director of rugby.

“Geech has not ruled himself out entirely,” said Lions manager Andy Irvine at the announcement of a 10-match 2013 tour that will start in Hong Kong on June 1st against the Barbarians. “I have spoken to him. He is an option.”

Irvine said the Lions coach would have to take a sabbatical of virtually a year if he were employed by a country or club.

“The head coach will have to be free of other commitments,” said Irvine. “He has to be totally unencumbered in the season leading up to the tour. I think the current head coaches of Ireland, Scotland and Wales [Declan Kidney, Andy Robinson and Warren Gatland] would all be available, but the person we choose will not necessarily come from the home unions.

“The 2009 tour was a success on and off the field. The series was lost narrowly and the Lions were unfortunate. Continuity is an important factor when it comes to the management team, especially with such a tight schedule, but there is also a view that it is good to spread the Lions’ experience. It is a dilemma.”

Irvine said the tour would start in Hong Kong to break up the journey, and did not rule out playing Argentina, who join the old Tri-Nations next year, in the future.

The Lions will play all five Australian Super 15 teams, Tests in Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney and a fixture against a combined New South Wales and Queensland Country XV. Wallabies coach Robbie Deans will consider making his squad available for the warm-up games.

“You do not want to deny players a special experience like this and decisions will be made on an individual basis,” he said. “Some players never get the chance to face the Lions, because they only visit once every 12 years.”

The 2009 tour was blighted by poor attendances in the warm-up matches, with ticket prices set high and the provincial teams shorn of international players.

totallegend

eigrod wrote: »

McGeechan not being ruled out to coach the team AGAIN. I dunno, I think they should just bite the bullet and move on.

I agree, but then again they need someone who is not in full-time employment elsewhere, so it will have to be either someone who is out of a job or who is in a sort of consultant/director of rugby role.

Cue speculation re Jake White/Clive Woodward...

errlloyd

EOS

justsomebloke

Shaun Edwards?

SARZY

Just had a flick through and its amazing how Paul O'Connell has fallen out of favour with the 'selectors' on here.

Not only will he be on the plane but he will Captain the Lions for the second time.

Podge_irl

SARZY wrote: »

Not only will he be on the plane but he will Captain the Lions for the second time.

There is not even the smallest chance of that happening.

thomond2006

POC isn't even guaranteed a place in the team.

Warburton is surely the favourite to the captain.

irishbucsfan

I wouldn't mind Geechs as coach again. He did a superb job the last time.

Benny Cake

Podge_irl wrote: »

There is not even the smallest chance of that happening.

Which part? On the plane or the captaincy?

Podge_irl

Captaincy. He'll be on the plane, though I wouldn't be surprised if he's not starting in the test team. Currently he would be, but there are a lot of good locks in the home nations at the moment.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Podge_irl wrote: »

Captaincy. He'll be on the plane, though I wouldn't be surprised if he's not starting in the test team. Currently he would be, but there are a lot of good locks in the home nations at the moment.

I think we just criminally under rate POC. He is recognised as (one of) the best locks in the world anywhere you go but, we still pine after the "modern" lock like the blonde Scotsman or the English thug.

2years is a huge amount of time in rugby but, if we were to pick the Lion's captain now, it would be Warburton or POC. I'd go for the welshman just because he looks like a future great of the game - We will look back as him being the man being the revival of Welsh rugby.

thomond2006

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I wouldn't mind Geechs as coach again. He did a superb job the last time.

Marc Lievremont FTW. The DVD of the tour would be hilarious.

Podge_irl

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I think we just criminally under rate POC. He is recognised as (one of) the best locks in the world anywhere you go but, we still pine after the "modern" lock like the blonde Scotsman or the English thug.

2years is a huge amount of time in rugby but, if we were to pick the Lion's captain now, it would be Warburton or POC. I'd go for the welshman just because he looks like a future great of the game - We will look back as him being the man being the revival of Welsh rugby.

It would be Warburton. I think we're deluding ourselves if we think it would be POC. We pine for a modern lock because we desperately need one and for all POC's attributes (and he has many) he is seriously deficient in certain parts of the game. Admittedly this would be less of an issue with someone like Touhy partnering him instead of DOC.

I don't think he is rated as one of the best locks in the world in many places either. I certainly have never gotten that impression. Players like Botha and Matfield were always ranked ahead of him. Rightly imo.

eigrod

Much as I love him, I can't see Paul O' Connell playing for the Lions in 2013. Given his age and the injuries he has endured, he'll be doing well to be still in the Munster team by then.

CatFromHue

eigrod wrote: »

Much as I love him, I can't see Paul O' Connell playing for the Lions in 2013. Given his age and the injuries he has endured, he'll be doing well to be still in the Munster team by then.

The Lions tour is at the end of next season! At the moment he is well ahead of DOC, MOD, Ryan, and Nagle. I can't see any of them combining to be better than POC + 1 next season.

If you look at the second rows knocking about at the moment who'll be playing internationally next season or thereabouts you've Gray, Kellock, Lawes, Palmer, Deacon, Wynn Jones, Davies, Charteris and then the Irish contingent of POC, Ryan, Toner, and Tuohy. I've taken a bit of a leap of faith with the Irish guys here.

Kellock, Palmer, Deacon, and Charteris I don't think will make the Lions and Davies I'm not sure of. That leaves Gray, Lawes, and Wynn Jones plus our guys.

I don't think he'll captain them but he's still in with a great chance of going on tour with em.

Teg Veece

Podge_irl wrote: »

There is not even the smallest chance of that happening.

You'd make a very bad bookie.

Podge_irl

Teg Veece wrote: »

You'd make a very bad bookie.

Perhaps, but I'd imagine the odds would be in the hundreds for POC to be captain. It's ridiculously unlikely.

thomond2006

I'd offer 20/1 on POC being captain.

GerM

Podge is right. It's very, very unlikely that POC will be captain. He had his shot. Aside from MJ, I don't think there has ever been a two time captain. First and foremost, your captain has to be guaranteed his place in the side. POC isn't unless he has a huge 18 months and ups his influence on games to the level it was pre injury. He's still playing very well but I don't think he's playing to the level he once was and there's no shame in that given how good he was and the injuries he has had. The one thing he has in his favour is that the majority of the young locks coming through all specialise at 4. Gray, Davies and Lawes all play at 4 although they should be versatile to move. People laugh at the guy constantly but Tom Palmer has had an excellent 2011 if anyone has bothered to watch him. At this moment in time, it's difficult to say who will be captain although you would have to think Warburton is definitely clear frontrunner given his performance on and off the field in recent times as well as the outright lack of opensides in the 4 nations at the moment.

If you go through all the captains of the nations and big teams it's very hard to identify a player that you could say would almost certainly be starting aside from Warburton. Tindall, Moody, Hartley, POC, BOD, Kellock, Rees...that's about it. Every other captain in the Pro12 and AP are either foreign or don't have a hope of making the plane.

GerM

William Hill is offering the following: http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/ro/betting/g/1182176/2013-British-Lions-Captain.html

Some fairly ridiculous odds there just to cover themselves. BOD probably won't be on the tour and is second favourite. If I was to look at outside bets I'd look at Hartley or Rees. The odds on the frontrunners there are terrible!

Fireball07

GerM wrote: »

Podge is right. It's very, very unlikely that POC will be captain. He had his shot. Aside from MJ, I don't think there has ever been a two time captain. First and foremost, your captain has to be guaranteed his place in the side. POC isn't unless he has a huge 18 months and ups his influence on games to the level it was pre injury. He's still playing very well but I don't think he's playing to the level he once was and there's no shame in that given how good he was and the injuries he has had. The one thing he has in his favour is that the majority of the young locks coming through all specialise at 4. Gray, Davies and Lawes all play at 4 although they should be versatile to move. People laugh at the guy constantly but Tom Palmer has had an excellent 2011 if anyone has bothered to watch him. At this moment in time, it's difficult to say who will be captain although you would have to think Warburton is definitely clear frontrunner given his performance on and off the field in recent times as well as the outright lack of opensides in the 4 nations at the moment.

If you go through all the captains of the nations and big teams it's very hard to identify a player that you could say would almost certainly be starting aside from Warburton. Tindall, Moody, Hartley, POC, BOD, Kellock, Rees...that's about it. Every other captain in the Pro12 and AP are either foreign or don't have a hope of making the plane.

That's a point in his favour... If something happens to Warburton, you never know.. It's a year and a half away, he could get injured, lose form. And POC could up his performance to make himself a starting lock. I wouldn't write it off completely. Anything could happen in that time.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Podge_irl wrote: »

Perhaps, but I'd imagine the odds would be in the hundreds for POC to be captain. It's ridiculously unlikely.

Who would you put in the pecking order ahead of him?

Podge_irl

Warburton is obviously the prime candidate. Unless he's injured or has a stunning drop off in form he'll be ahead of POC anyway. POC is a good option in and of himself, but he's already had the captaincy once and I feel that's going to count against him. Johnson is, as far as I know, the only player to get the captaincy twice and POC is just no Johnson. Rather importantly, Johnson also won his first attempt.

We're also talking 18 months from now. O'Connell is already older then Johnson was at his second captaincy. He'll be 33 for the next Lions tour - that's already reaching the end of a lot of player's careers. It's infinitely more likely that some player will seriously put his hand up over the next 18 months then it is that POC will continue his current vein of form for that long imo.

Benny Cake

Warburton is a shoe in TBH, however I would have POC second favourite and anybody sh*ting on about the odds on POC being in the hundreds should check a few bookies......

eigrod

CatFromHue wrote: »

The Lions tour is at the end of next season! At the moment he is well ahead of DOC, MOD, Ryan, and Nagle. I can't see any of them combining to be better than POC + 1 next season.

If you look at the second rows knocking about at the moment who'll be playing internationally next season or thereabouts you've Gray, Kellock, Lawes, Palmer, Deacon, Wynn Jones, Davies, Charteris and then the Irish contingent of POC, Ryan, Toner, and Tuohy. I've taken a bit of a leap of faith with the Irish guys here.

Kellock, Palmer, Deacon, and Charteris I don't think will make the Lions and Davies I'm not sure of. That leaves Gray, Lawes, and Wynn Jones plus our guys.

I don't think he'll captain them but he's still in with a great chance of going on tour with em.

It's 19 months away. I would be surprised if he makes it to be honest.

Benny Cake

eigrod wrote: »

It's 19 months away. I would be surprised if he makes it to be honest.

It amazes me that the bookies have POC 2nd or 3rd favourite for CAPTAINCY, yet theres people here reckon he wont even be on the plane!!! Trust me, assuming POC is alive in 2013, he'll be on the tour.... Unreal

jacothelad

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I think we just criminally under rate POC. He is recognised as (one of) the best locks in the world anywhere you go but, we still pine after the "modern" lock like the blonde Scotsman or the English thug.

2years is a huge amount of time in rugby but, if we were to pick the Lion's captain now, it would be Warburton or POC. I'd go for the welshman just because he looks like a future great of the game - We will look back as him being the man being the revival of Welsh rugby.

Totally agree. Lawes is a filthy brute even in an increasingly brutish game. With a bit of luck he will get enough bans to keep him off the field. Even leaving aside his thuggery he ain't that good.

CatFromHue wrote: »

The Lions tour is at the end of next season! At the moment he is well ahead of DOC, MOD, Ryan, and Nagle. I can't see any of them combining to be better than POC + 1 next season.

If you look at the second rows knocking about at the moment who'll be playing internationally next season or thereabouts you've Gray, Kellock, Lawes, Palmer, Deacon, Wynn Jones, Davies, Charteris and then the Irish contingent of POC, Ryan, Toner, and Tuohy. I've taken a bit of a leap of faith with the Irish guys here.

Kellock, Palmer, Deacon, and Charteris I don't think will make the Lions and Davies I'm not sure of. That leaves Gray, Lawes, and Wynn Jones plus our guys.

I don't think he'll captain them but he's still in with a great chance of going on tour with em.

GerM wrote: »

William Hill is offering the following: http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/ro/betting/g/1182176/2013-British-Lions-Captain.html

Some fairly ridiculous odds there just to cover themselves. BOD probably won't be on the tour and is second favourite. If I was to look at outside bets I'd look at Hartley or Rees. The odds on the frontrunners there are terrible!

If it was Hartley I'd not bother my ar5e watching them.

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Who would you put in the pecking order ahead of him?

No one apart from Warburton.

PhatPiggins

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'd offer 20/1 on POC being captain.

€50 on that please

Podge_irl

Benny Cake wrote: »

Warburton is a shoe in TBH, however I would have POC second favourite and anybody sh*ting on about the odds on POC being in the hundreds should check a few bookies......

His odds will lengthen considerably over the next year I imagine. I didn't realise any bookies would have odds on him at the moment, but all the odds are ridiculously short just to be on the safe side. ffs BOD is second favourite with one of the bookies. It's too early to know much, but POC is only likely to go downhill. I think he'll be on the plane, but not a hope he'll be captain.

PhatPiggins

Podge_irl wrote: »

His odds will lengthen considerably over the next year I imagine. I didn't realise any bookies would have odds on him at the moment, but all the odds are ridiculously short just to be on the safe side. ffs BOD is second favourite with one of the bookies. It's too early to know much, but POC is only likely to go downhill. I think he'll be on the plane, but not a hope he'll be captain.

I'll take €50 with you as well or some suitable humiliation to be decided on later if you'd prefer.

sock puppet

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Who would you put in the pecking order ahead of him?

It's stupid asking that question now when only one of the teams involved even knows who their captain will be next year (though O'Connell will almost certainly captain us).

jacothelad

If Wales retreat to their usual mid table 6ns mediocrity or worse, what price Warburton then?

Cpt_Blackbeard

jacothelad wrote: »

Totally agree. Lawes is a filthy brute even in an increasingly brutish game. With a bit of luck he will get enough bans to keep him off the field. Even leaving aside his thuggery he ain't that good.

Thug is one of the calmest words I could use to describe him. Being an important member of the England "Elite" squad, he'll never serve any very lengthy bans.

danthefan

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

jacothelad wrote: »

Totally agree. Lawes is a filthy brute even in an increasingly brutish game. With a bit of luck he will get enough bans to keep him off the field. Even leaving aside his thuggery he ain't that good.

Thug is one of the calmest words I could use to describe him. Being an important member of the England "Elite" squad, he'll never serve any very lengthy bans.

What had he done so far to deserve a lengthy ban?

totallegend

sock puppet wrote: »

It's stupid asking that question now when only one of the teams involved even knows who their captain will be next year (though O'Connell will almost certainly captain us).

The whole issue of captaincy of the Lions is completely up in the air; it has to be someone who is guaranteed a starting spot in the test team. If O'Connell is up against Wyn Jones, Gray, Lawes and a number of others, he'll be up against it as they may be inferior players but they are all a good bit younger than him and these games are 18 months away.
Likewise O'Driscoll, as second favourite, will have to come back from his injury, prove he's back to test level and show that he's still ahead of the alternatives.

All in all, if Warburton keeps going as he has so far, he'll be captain. I don't doubt that O'Connell will be in the squad but I don't think he'll be captain.

d-gal

Between POC and warburton. POC will be around next WC and as Irish captain I reckon. Amazing work ethic (same as thorn and shaw).
Can see Gray and POC in the 2nd row. Think both of these are an absolute mile ahead of lawes, jones and charteris. Both are playing unbelievably and consistenly well.
BOD will have a job making the 15 IMO. Davies and Williams are really impressive at 13. A younger BOD would kill them but a slower (and slower again in 18months) will find it difficult

totallegend

Just thinking, I wonder will the fact that POC was a losing captain last time out count against him? And was this a factor in BOD not getting the nod in South Africa?

Martin Johnson is the only man ever to captain them twice, his first effort was as a reasonably young guy (mid 20s IIRC) and he went out and beat South Africa when he was still some way short of reaching his peak as a player.

BOD & POC might have been great Lions captain, as reports suggest, but the fact is that they presided over losing sides (although obviously BOD's on-field contribution was cut short in NZ). They don't have time on their side like Johnson did between 97 and 01.