Charlesland Attics unsafe for Bedroom use

Two Boys

I just wanted to bring this to peoples attention, If you have converted your attic to use as a Bedroom it is apparently not safe.
We got a survey done on our house and this is what it reported:

These houses were sold as having three
bedrooms and an attic. Unfortunately,
we have to worry that too many people
will use it as a bedroom even if this is not
what the builder intended.
“The house is in breach of fire regulations
by not having a protected means of
escape from the top floor. There are no
fire doors as required for the protected
staircase.

Our house is a 3 bedroom but I am sure this applies to all house types.

I am glad to find this out now and luckily we have been using it as a study, but I am sure plenty of people who use it as a bedroom.

matt-dublin

I think you can get past this by putting in a velux window, fire protected floors, fire doors and chain ladder.

you will find probably about 40-50% of houses in the country would be in breach of this regulation

http://www.loftstyle.ie/legal.php

loyatemu

you can't sell the house as having "4 bedrooms" - not just because of the fire regulations, but also because a habitable room has to have a certain height ceiling which can't be achieved with a hipped roof.

This doesn't prevent you from sleeping there if you want to though.

Two Boys

loyatemu wrote: »

you can't sell the house as having "4 bedrooms" - not just because of the fire regulations, but also because a habitable room has to have a certain height ceiling which can't be achieved with a hipped roof.

This doesn't prevent you from sleeping there if you want to though.

My point had nothing to do with selling the house or advertising it as having 4 bedrooms. It has nothing to do with how high the ceiling is either.

My point was that if people are using it as a bedroom they should be aware of how dangerous it is in the unfortunate event of a fire.
I had not realised before and I reckon lots of people use their converted attics as bedrooms so I wanted to highlight it if they like myself had not thought it through.

Jimjay

There are people in Charlesland (two beds) that have recieved planning permission before converting their attics and can successfully call their houses three beds after completion.
With regards to the fire safety i think it is common sense to know if there is fire downstairs and you are in the attic then you could have problems unless you have a window low enough and big enough to climb through or be rescued through.

pixbyjohn

Looking through the planning lists it appears that Wicklow County Council will not give planning permission for a bedroom in the attics of any homes in Charlesland

PLANNING AND DEVERLOPMENT ACTS 2000 – 2006

Reference Number in Register: deleted for privacy sake
S C H E D U L E A

Pursuant to the Planning & Development Acts 2000 – 2006, permission is hereby granted, having regard to the design of the development and its use for storage it is considered that, subject to compliance with the conditions set out in the schedule below, the proposed development would not seriously injure the visual or residential amenities of the area and would therefore be in accordance with the proper planning and development of the area.

1. This permission refers to the development as described in the documents lodged, save as the conditions hereunder require.

REASON: For clarification.

2. This attic area shall be used for storage use only and shall not be used for human habitation.

REASON: To safeguard the residential amenities of adjoining properties.

3. The velux windows in the attic shall be removed.

REASON: To safeguard the residential amenities of adjoining properties.

Jimjay

Hi John,
I know of at least 3 of my neighbours that applied and received planning permission for bedroom in attic, on charlesland wood.
Two in 2 beds and 1 in 3 bed.

Blandpebbles

Agree with John on this one... No house in CL would get planning as it is structurally unsound.

Jimjay

http://www.wicklow.ie/ePlan41/FileRefDetails.aspx?file_number=08178&LASiteID=0

This had a lot more building work done that just the attic so maybe that is why it got approved.

I have to admit that even with a fire escape on to the roof I wouldnt want to have to climb on to a roof in charlesland from a window, they are very steep and dangerous. Have climbed the roof from a ladder and that was bad enough.

Annasopra

Blandpebbles wrote: »

Agree with John on this one... No house in CL would get planning as it is structurally unsound.

There is no evidence at all that houses in charlesland are "structurally unsound". Please refrain from using such language that could potentially cause unnecessary panic amongst residents.

cuddlycavies

My attic room was signed off by a structural engineer and inspected/signed off by WCC. It is only to be used as storage. Has a velux.

Jimjay

cuddlycavies wrote: »

My attic room was signed off by a structural engineer and inspected/signed off by WCC. It is only to be used as storage. Has a velux.

I presume you use it as a bedroom? Otherwise that's a very expensive storage room.

Blandpebbles

mango salsa wrote: »

There is no evidence at all that houses in charlesland are "structurally unsound". Please refrain from using such language that could potentially cause unnecessary panic amongst residents.

My apologies, I should have said that building an attic in a house designed to be only two storeys is structurally unsound. As pointed out, houses that have done this properly have done extensive changes to take the extra weight load. Those attic conversions carried out without changing joists at the very least are dangerous.

This is further aggrevated by the poor workmanship that went into SOME of the houses in CL... bad drainage, bad heating systems etc... as reported numerous times on this forum.

lakeroad

Blandpebbles wrote: »

Agree with John on this one... No house in CL would get planning as it is structurally unsound.

Once again your way of the mark. You have no concept of the Planning regulations or procedures.

Annasopra

lakeroad wrote: »

Another trolling statement. Once again your way of the mark. You have no concept of the Planning regulations or procedures.

The statement was clarified. Please do not accuse posters of trolling. If you have a problem with a post please use the report post button. As per the forum charter I won't discuss this in the thread. If you wish to discuss this send me a pm

missy mouse

Jimjay wrote: »

Hi John,
I know of at least 3 of my neighbours that applied and received planning permission for bedroom in attic, on charlesland wood.
Two in 2 beds and 1 in 3 bed.

Can I ask if the 3 bed was one of the mid terraced houses? Trying to find out if an attic conversion with velux window is possible in that type house.

BrokerBroker

Two Boys wrote: »

I just wanted to bring this to peoples attention, If you have converted your attic to use as a Bedroom it is apparently not safe.
We got a survey done on our house and this is what it reported:

These houses were sold as having three
bedrooms and an attic. Unfortunately,
we have to worry that too many people
will use it as a bedroom even if this is not
what the builder intended.
“The house is in breach of fire regulations
by not having a protected means of
escape from the top floor. There are no
fire doors as required for the protected
staircase.

Our house is a 3 bedroom but I am sure this applies to all house types.

I am glad to find this out now and luckily we have been using it as a study, but I am sure plenty of people who use it as a bedroom.

Is this not lifted from the Sunday Times property section??

Jimjay

missy mouse wrote: »

Can I ask if the 3 bed was one of the mid terraced houses? Trying to find out if an attic conversion with velux window is possible in that type house.

End of terrace but it also had a two storey extension at the back of he house so I presume you can climb out the fe us onto the extension roof.

Jimjay

This has some good information on attic conversions in Ireland.

http://www.atticconversionsireland.com/planningpermission.htm

Millers02

missy mouse wrote: »

Can I ask if the 3 bed was one of the mid terraced houses? Trying to find out if an attic conversion with velux window is possible in that type house.

We have a mid-terrace 3-bedroom and got an attic conversion with two windows (one at the back one at the side) as we have one room, which we use as a playroom, and then a landing-type space that has a desk, etc. in it.

Ours was signed off by a structural engineer - we were told we needed this in case we ever want to sell the house - though, like others, our house will always be described as a three-bedroom with an attic conversion.

cuddlycavies

Jimjay wrote: »

I presume you use it as a bedroom? Otherwise that's a very expensive storage room.

yes, you might think that but I couldn't possibly comment

Alien1977

Hi Folks,

I'm an Architectural Technician (or unemployed as its now known) and strictly speaking if the top room of a 3-storey dwelling (2 + attic conversion) is a habitable room (e.g. a bedroom) the access up to it should be a 30 minute rated fire enclosure with 30minute fire resistant self closing doors off it. This can be done by double plasterboard slabs to both sides of the hall and landing walls but is not the case in the one I live in currently.
A velux window is the secondary means of escape for the top room, should only be used if the primary is comprimised and should not be relied upon for escape as you are intended to be rescued by the fire brigade from upper levels and I would query how a ladder would get to the back of the terraced houses.

I have unfortunately seen the results of fires in similarly arranged dwellings and you wouldn't believe how quick a fire can take. For this reason I would not convert my attic to a bedroom without also doing the other aforementioned work to the halls, landings and doors. I would also upgrade the fire alarm system to include a linked bell sounder at the top floor.

Hope this gives some clarity to this rather meandering discussion.

Stay safe Charleslanders!

Honestly!

Two Boys wrote: »

My point had nothing to do with selling the house or advertising it as having 4 bedrooms. It has nothing to do with how high the ceiling is either.

My point was that if people are using it as a bedroom they should be aware of how dangerous it is in the unfortunate event of a fire.
I had not realised before and I reckon lots of people use their converted attics as bedrooms so I wanted to highlight it if they like myself had not thought it through.

Given that this is absolutely no way specific to Charlesland, why don't you just say Converted Attics Unsafe for Bedroom Use? Scaremongering is not very considerate as prices already continue to go south.

The Bishop Basher

Eh...it's entirely related to charlesland. People are giving their experiences based on the various houses built there.

2011

Honestly! wrote: »

Scaremongering is not very considerate as prices already continue to go south.

Its not scaremongering, Alien1977's post above clearly explains the issues.

If a home is advertised as having x number of bedrooms, these rooms will have to meet the standards required for bedroom use and certified as such. This sort of thing will be checked during a sale. Discussing it in a thread is not going to drive prices down any further, the general state of our economy will do that.

Blandpebbles

Honestly! wrote: »

Given that this is absolutely no way specific to Charlesland, why don't you just say Converted Attics Unsafe for Bedroom Use? Scaremongering is not very considerate as prices already continue to go south.

It's Charlesland not La La Land we are talking about here

But house prices will be affected if all those advertising their actics as bedrooms are forced to change it.