Churches in broadcast VHF spectrum

gerryk

Last Thursday I heard 2 local churches broadcasting 10am mass on 106.2 and 107.5MHz. Usually I am at work at this time, so have no idea how long this has been going on.
It did happen in the past, and I mentioned it to Comreg a couple of times, only to be told that they weren't really all that interested as they had only had one complaint (mine). Then, miraculously it stopped.
Now, it's back, and twice as bad. Signals are strong where I live, to the extent that they obliterate the legit station I want to listen to (107.6, 107.2, 106.9).

Since it's not in the Ham bands, IARUMS won't have any interest. Comreg don't seem to have any interest in prosecuting churches, so, what do?

Our man in Havana

God does seem to be able to get a free pass from Comreg alright. :mad:

PauloMN

gerryk wrote: »

Last Thursday I heard 2 local churches broadcasting 10am mass on 106.2 and 107.5MHz. Usually I am at work at this time, so have no idea how long this has been going on.
It did happen in the past, and I mentioned it to Comreg a couple of times, only to be told that they weren't really all that interested as they had only had one complaint (mine). Then, miraculously it stopped.
Now, it's back, and twice as bad. Signals are strong where I live, to the extent that they obliterate the legit station I want to listen to (107.6, 107.2, 106.9).

Since it's not in the Ham bands, IARUMS won't have any interest. Comreg don't seem to have any interest in prosecuting churches, so, what do?

If the legit station you are trying to listen to is a licensed station operating in the ROI, and you are in the intended reception area of that station, then you have a legitimate complaint and you should put it in writing to Comreg with all details, and send a copy to the church(es) in question. You might approach the church first though to see how they react - I'd wager that none of the churches are aware they are/might be causing problems, and the real problem is with dodgy installers putting these systems in place.

If the station you are trying to receive is outside of the ROI, or you are outside the intended reception area of that station, I'd imagine you've not much hope of getting anything done about it I'm afraid.

Mike 1972

A complaint to the station affected might also help.

Ive no issue with well run/engineered pirates but these church transmitters are a right nuisance. The audio (levels all over the shop) on most of them are so bad that I cant imagine anyone being able to stand listening to them for too long.

watty

Also they (and anyone else that wants live community radio, no recording playing) got their own 11m band between CB and 10m Amateur.

gerryk

watty wrote: »

Also they (and anyone else that wants live community radio, no recording playing) got their own 11m band between CB and 10m Amateur.

Indeed. TBH, it's not the churches specifically I have a problem with, more the gob****e that sells these systems. I'm pretty sure the average padre has little knowledge of radio technology and regulation, but the guy making profit on it is the real crook.

pixbyjohn

gerryk wrote: »

Indeed. TBH, it's not the churches specifically I have a problem with, more the gob****e that sells these systems. I'm pretty sure the average padre has little knowledge of radio technology and regulation, but the guy making profit on it is the real crook.

Have you made an official complaint to Comreg yet ?

gerryk

I did in the past, and was pretty much told nothing would be done.

Our man in Havana

I can't say that is other than typical from Comwreck.

Molloys Clondalkin

Have you seen the rigs these guys are putting in churches my local has a few grands worth of Yaseu in there :eek:. All for spreading "mass media""

zg3409

Ask the church who they contact when the system breaks / who put it in. They will happily give you the mobile number of the installer, which should help

Molloys Clondalkin

another Ham friend of mine knows a guy !!! (yea I know) who owns a very reputable company in Dublin who sells and installs these up here. Dont know about cork though.

Antenna

Molloys Clondalkin wrote: »

another Ham friend of mine knows a guy !!! (yea I know) who owns a very reputable company in Dublin who sells and installs these up here. Dont know about cork though.

OP is posting about a situation in Galway area, not Cork.
107.6 would be the dominant Newstalk frequency there (from Maghera), so obviously a church on 107.5 would be a genuine problem, that church must have been there (107.5) since before Newstalk went national!.

dave98

Lads, is it a huge deal in fairness? Mass only lasts 30mins or so. If the mass is been broadcast 24/7 then i'd agree with you. But surely the reason the mass is broadcast is for the poor elderely people who can't get to mass. And most of those people would really appreciate the mass. I'm sure the OP could still pick up newstalk

Our man in Havana

They can apply for a licence thru the proper channels like everyone else has to.

fryup

is this church broadcast nationwide?

i get it sometimes here in east clare? where is it coming from?

zg3409

Regarding the length of broadcasts the transmitter is normally on whenever the microphone system is on in the church.

So the system is on for 8am mass, 10am mass, 11.30 mass, 7.30pm mass etc.

It is also on for funerals, weddings. It is also on for wedding practice sessions (people don't realise everything they say in an empty church is being broadcast)

The system is also always turned on long before mass starts and up until the Church is locked up. Music practice etc is all broadcast.

Some churches say only certain masses are broadcast (e.g. 10am) but it depends on the priest knowing which box to switch on and off which causes problems.

Regarding frequencies naturally anyone transmitting on 88-108 needs to check what channels are in use before picking a channel, assuming they have any clue what they are doing. There is a specific system and frequencies assigned for this use and they should never interfere with radio stations.

There are some churches in belfast that broadcast TV pictures too. for similar reasons, but that needs a new thread!

Molloys Clondalkin

dave98 wrote: »

Lads, is it a huge deal in fairness? Mass only lasts 30mins or so. If the mass is been broadcast 24/7 then i'd agree with you. But surely the reason the mass is broadcast is for the poor elderely people who can't get to mass. And most of those people would really appreciate the mass. I'm sure the OP could still pick up newstalk

But thats not the point it is a huge deal If I continually scourged rte 1 on 88.5 in Dublin I could be certain some men in a van would be around in no time.
You need a licence to operate a commercial radio station on the brodcast band 88-108. To think "sure its only a half hour" is a slap in the face to all those who studied and sat there exams.

The church should be abiding by the law like everyone else.

Mike 1972

zg3409 wrote: »

There are some churches in belfast that broadcast TV pictures too. for similar reasons, but that needs a new thread!

Havent heard/seen that one before. Unless you are referring to the one which broadcasts via one of the Godbotherer channels on satellite which at least have the virtues of being
1) Legal
2) Easier to ignore.

zg3409 wrote: »

Regarding the length of broadcasts the transmitter is normally on whenever the microphone system is on in the church.

Some are even running 24/7 (albeit with a blank carrier/nasty buzz for most of the time)

Molloys Clondalkin wrote: »

You need a licence to operate a commercial radio station on the brodcast band 88-108. To think "sure its only a half hour" is a slap in the face to all those who studied and sat there exams.

There is an exam one can do which enables one to obtain a license to operate a commercial radio station on the broadcast band

Where do I sign up

watty

He's talking about two different licences.
One needs money & politics and is for a certain time span (and must use approved equipment) and the other needs a small amount of study and lasts for life (but can use "home brew" gear).

But you knew that.

With Comreg creating a 27MHz "Community band" (for anyone, not just Churches) there is no excuse. The performance must be live, not a recording. In theory a pub / night club with live acts could use the licence and mute (or transmit ambience) when just playing pre-recorded.

UK 27/81 FM sets will receive as will better scanners and SW sets. Even AM sets will RX FM if the IF is suitable shape. (cheaper the better!)

PauloMN

Molloys Clondalkin wrote: »

The church should be abiding by the law like everyone else.

Yes they should, but my initial point remains, they probably don't even know they are breaking any laws. If you call out a company to install a system, you expect it to be done within the law - of course utimately you are responsible for ensuring you are operating within the law but most people are not even aware of the licensing in this regard.

This is a Comreg fail imo - if this is a widespread problem, which it looks like it is, Comreg should be issuing guidance to the church authorities about these systems and helping them bring the systems up to scratch. They should also be telling the people installing these sytems to not install illegal ones.

As an aside, I think the old UK FM option is daft - it means people (often elderly) need to buy and learn to use additional equipment). Community projects (not radio stations) should be able to use low power in a specific range of the VHF FM broadcast spectrum. Surely a small portion of the band - even from say 107.5 to 108 or something should have been put side for these uses.

Fuzzy Clam

The Church may well be aware of the legalities. I believe my local church received a letter from Comreg informing them of same about 5 years ago. There's another chuch near here that is still using the FM broadcast band.

zg3409

Regarding Belfast Churches sending TV pictures I can start a new thread or PM me. While not having seen the signals myself I read that some churches up north were using licence exempt video senders mounted outside. Then others mounted matching receivers on the roof of houses etc.

It was mostly for those who could not attend mass during the troubles etc as far as I know. Some streets were impassable so people could not attend. As they used licence exempt 2.4Ghz video then no laws would be broken. However within legal power limits the signal range would be extremely limited, not that I am suggesting they broke the law.

Licenced video link licences are easily obtained if you flash the cash.

I presume they have gone by the wayside nowadays. This is probably the modern version of wireless video, streaming internet:
http://www.churchservices.tv/

The scarey thing they mention is:
"Watch playback on a television with the Church Telecom Set Top Box."

A special box to watch streaming mass!

Mike 1972

With the possible exception of Harryville I didnt realise the 2.4 GHz license exemption predated the events you refer to

There were UHF "video senders" knocking about in the 1980's/early 90's (following a clampdown they became pretty scarce after that). Perhaps this was what they were using ? Such devices were illegal but in the circumstances you describe perhaps the authorities deemed it the least of their problems ???

Molloys Clondalkin

PauloMN wrote: »

Yes they should, but my initial point remains, they probably don't even know they are breaking any laws. If you call out a company to install a system, you expect it to be done within the law - of course utimately you are responsible for ensuring you are operating within the law but most people are not even aware of the licensing in this regard.

This is a Comreg fail imo - if this is a widespread problem, which it looks like it is, Comreg should be issuing guidance to the church authorities about these systems and helping them bring the systems up to scratch. They should also be telling the people installing these sytems to not install illegal ones.

As an aside, I think the old UK FM option is daft - it means people (often elderly) need to buy and learn to use additional equipment). Community projects (not radio stations) should be able to use low power in a specific range of the VHF FM broadcast spectrum. Surely a small portion of the band - even from say 107.5 to 108 or something should have been put side for these uses.

Couldnt agree more but then like someone said you pay 100 euro and these problems "disapear"

Ive some issues in my qth which meant I havent been able to dx in about a month Ive put in a huge amount of investment in my shack to rectify this but stil Im at a point now where I either have to tell people to Eff off Im licenced or run the risk of having my windows/antennas etc damaged by frustrated people I suffer with so much qth It took me 2 months to get dfb on a bearcat!!!!
But Im still determined to get by legally while trying to be a gent to the neighbours, So why should the church get away with it!!!!

Mike 1972

zg3409 wrote: »

It is also on for wedding practice sessions (people don't realise everything they say in an empty church is being broadcast)

I wonder what would the legalities be in the event of some unwitingly broadcast "gossip" turning out to be libelous.

Molloys Clondalkin

I think that brings with it other issues I remember I went on a premisis before and the guy said he was obliged by his insurance to tell us we were being recorded.

Dont people on tv shows etc have to sign a waiver or something? who owns the rights of said wedding?
Lots of problems with transmitting public events like foul launguage obscene acts taking place Tv shows have rigourous checks to ensure they comply with this but an amatuer station I say they pray nothing goes down.

now radio soldier

I had same problem where i live where people were coming too me asking who they contact regarding the church blocking a licenced signal,i never really listened this happened. i was amazed at the good audio and quality which they had and the signal certainly knocked out the other station.

Later that evening i went too the church and explained too the priest what was happening,it was there from the last priest and he said instead of switching it off he used it like the previous lad.

He invited me into the church and lead me up a set of stairs and at the top of the landing he opened a big steel door (previous priest must have got it installed).

I was amazed at what i seen,there was a 250 watt cte's siting in a rack and a 40 watt nrg kit sitting on top of rack(back up i suppose).
In the rack he had audio processor,Stereo encoder,A RDS unit (wasnt hooked up) and in the other corner there was a mixer,a pc a 19inch mic reciever going into the desk.

As he didnt know how too use the pc playout system there was blank carrier on 24/7 unless mic was on.

Now he is on a clear freq,with RDS that reads MASS and the TX is only switched on for friday and sunday mass with 30mins of music b4 and after.

I later found out why the last priest didnt dismantle and take the gear,he passed away.

So i hope too get into heaven now

Molloys Clondalkin

Thats all well and good but is he legally transmitting ?

If I was to get my Icom 707 or the kenwood out and preach my own toughts on God and such I would be looking at a nice fine and my gear confiscated.

now radio soldier

well,what do you kinda think,from the set up i explained,no,he not licenced (MY ADVICE AND WORK THAT I DO IS ON THE CONCLUSION THAT YOU ARE LICENCED AND I DO NOT RECOMMAND THAT YOU BROADCAST WITHOUT LICENCE ) but all i was doing was taking complaints from others and helping out with my time and knowlodge too advoid a situation where alot of people could be affected,ie,people wanting too listen too a station that was being jammed and then people which can not leave from there house and physically cant and use the radio for listening too mass.

Where i live you will never see comreg,and thats a good thing,but as i say,its up too other people not me,too make sure the have a licence.

Molloys Clondalkin

Your stance is fine with me and maybe the majority (that you do the work on the understanding he is licenced)
But its the priests fault here ignorance of the law is no excuse in court.
You must posess a licence to transmit.
Ps do you know what freq he was tx'ing on?
If its in the broadcast spectrum of 88-108 he could be interfereing with a station much further away and you might not realise it.
Bottom line your licence has to be displayed and a quick call to comreg can point him in the right direction to get a legal set up.