Bye Bye Spoofer Wallace

Einhard

washman3 wrote: »

They wont. Wallace is oudside NAMA as his loans are mainly with foreign banks. his assets should cover his losses easily, only thing is they will be sold for a fraction of their worth. Might even lose his family home. If he was in NAMA he would be laughing now. He would be paid €200k a year and would be only pursued for what the banks paid for his loans. The taxpayer would pick up the rest.
Incidentally Mick was never a friend of Fianna Fail or a contributor in the Galway Tent. Coincidence.....

Honestly...yes. You stated in your own post that NAMA doesn't cover foreign institutions, and that Wallace's debts are owned by such corporations. Simple as that really.

Incidentally, Jim Mansfield was quiye pally with FF and he had an order for €200 million brought against by NAMA today. I don't think one can find FF corruption and cronyism lurking behind every single decision that's made. Especially when the reasons for the decision are self-evidently rational.

whippet

for all those who are in sympathy with Deputy Wallace ...

Why bother paying the pensions of employees when you won't pay the bank either

he is no different to the rest of the developers gamblers who won't/can't pay back their debts.

If he was even a tenth of the man some people on here are suggesting he should offer his resignation to the dail this week.

But alas I would predict that he will trapse it out for as long as it takes and probably serve for the length of the current Dail and leave with a nice pension.

He has a notion that he is different and thinks that a bank moving to make him bankrupt would be unthinkable ... just because he threw some money around like Wexford Youths ... he would have been better served throwing that money in to the pension funds like he was supposed to ....

jmayo

HellFireClub wrote: »

Great to see Irish begrudgery alive and kicking on the forum. The guy went out and created jobs, he worked hard, he lost money. Anyone here who hasn't started a business and taken on the huge risk and hardship that comes with that, I think isn't really fit to judge the man.

It's no wonder why we have no jobs in the country with this attitude to entrepreneurship...

BS.
Why the fook are people still lauding property developers and speculators as entrepreneurs.
I presume you belong to the same club that lauds one sean quinn for all the jobs he created, absolving him of the fact that he and his family decided to speculate with people's insurance funds and dump the heavy cost of trying to buy a trophy bank on the taxpayer.
Wallace may not have screwed the taxpayers with his borrowings, but he has screwed the peoole who bank with ACC because they will be the ones covering his losses and he has screwed the state through failure to pay his rightful taxes and contributions.

The sooner we laud real entrepreneurs who build something concrete (pardon the pun) that isn't just a short term gamble on an unsustainable industry the better for all of us.
What is your opinion of someone like Denis Brosnan, Michael O'Leary or Edward Haughey ?

They helped build real sustainable companies and not fly by night short term
enterprises dependent on screwing the Irish.

I look up Irish Entrepreneurs on Google and found a listing in A&M discussion from 2004.
The list included most of the spanners who have gotten the country into this mess and now pis*ed off leaving the people to pay for it.
Such luminaries as johnny ronan, sean quinn, derek quinlan, o'callaghan, niall mellon, liam carroll.

HellFireClub wrote: »

That's capitalism, success is rewarded, failure is punished...

Not in Ireland where the taxpayers pay for the failures.

washman3 wrote: »

They wont. Wallace is oudside NAMA as his loans are mainly with foreign banks. his assets should cover his losses easily,

Would these be property assets ?

washman3 wrote: »

only thing is they will be sold for a fraction of their worth. Might even lose his family home. If he was in NAMA he would be laughing now. He would be paid €200k a year and would be only pursued for what the banks paid for his loans.

That little gem was mr point depot spinning and not policy afaik.

washman3 wrote: »

The taxpayer would pick up the rest.

So it's alright for all the customers of ACC to pick up the rest ?

washman3 wrote: »

Incidentally Mick was never a friend of Fianna Fail or a contributor in the Galway Tent. Coincidence.....

BTW who makes up for the taxes and other state contributions he owes ?

T runner

HellFireClub wrote: »

I'll use whatever form of words I feel like on the forum, thank's very much... This begrudgery that we are seeing in relation to kicking people who fail in a business, it's a very well known Irish trait.

So you and your family members begrudge people who fail in business?


Other "well known Irish traits" include stupidity, dirtiness, cruelty to animals, etc etc. Do your family members possess these traits also assuming they are Irish? Are are your family somehow immune to these peculiarly Irish diseases?

Begrudgery is a human trait the world over if you think it applies only to people here becuase they are Irish then you are barking up the wrong tree and being offensive to Irish people, especially those who do not possess these traits.

T runner

HellFireClub wrote: »

This happened, in my opinion, because of a culture that runs straight through the Irish civil service, one that is based on passing the book, a complete failure to make timely and effective decisions without endless deference to committees, steering groups, implementation bodies and waffling shops, a culture where nobody is really responsible in terms of personal ownership of probolems, for anything, because everything is agreed at "social partnership level", people generally can't be fired for incompetence, unions running the show, a lack of individual performance review systems that hold people to account...

Then we are somehow surprised when out the other end of this monster, we get handed a crisis and we have a regulator who blames the government, a government that blames the central bank, a Taoiseach who blames the Lehman brothers, a central bank that blames the customers of the Irish banks???

We have been taken for mugs is what I think.

Your assesment about the civil service is straight from the FF propaganda sheet that tactically turned the private sector against the public sector in order to get public sector cuts through.

The major problem in the public sector is a large (unnecessary) lair of middle management that has grown up over the years. Some of these do not have the requisite skills to manage a modern public service, but the main problem is this bloated lair. Croke Park seems to have the mechanics that can alter this in the next 4-5 years by retirements, amalgamations etc. Capital budget can provide huge savings but nobody is looking at this??? Very strange.

There are some spends that simply do not make sense taking place more to do with government policy than with local incompetence. They have to spend the budget.

Incidently this public/private argument is reciprocated in the US, UK and almost every country due to teh impact of the global recession (incase you thought it was another Irish thing). And there are self righteous bashers like yourself swallowing local government propaganda in every country too.

In America most of the civil servants who are being hit are black and female. Thus its easier there to see that as usual poorer public servants are taking the hits.

Here when we mention civil service an image of a council worker leaning on a shovel springs to mind. A truer image might be a nurse working at 180%, not taking her/his breaks in order to protect her patients as the frontline has been decimated by losing all necessary part-time staff.

murphaph

T runner wrote: »

Here when we mention civil service an image of a council worker leaning on a shovel springs to mind. A truer image might be a nurse working at 180%, not taking her/his breaks in order to protect her patients as the frontline has been decimated by losing all necessary part-time staff.

Actually the council worker with little or nothing to do in a country with far too many county councils to begin with is pretty accurate.

And we have a heap load more nurses than say, France, which manages to provide much better medical care for it.

There's plenty of fat to cut out of the public service.

bruschi

AlekSmart wrote: »

have also heard it said that Wallaces developments tended to be of a somewhat different character to other Irish-Style apartment's,being somewhat larger internally and with a bit of a tilt towards Family occupancy.....any Wallace development occupiers out there who can confirm or deny that element..??

having been in some of those apartments, they are different from the norm alright. courtyard in the centre of the development that is well thought out, and the apartments themselves are more open space and have large balconies. a fanciful idea, and trying to take a mediterannian look to them and give more space and appeal. could well have been better off making poorly built crappy shoeboxes and selling them at extortionate prices.

JustinDee

I just find it ironic that someone who has been pontificating about reckless lending has been just as reckless himself.
How very ... Irish.

washman3

Einhard wrote: »

Incidentally, Jim Mansfield was quiye pally with FF and he had an order for €200 million brought against by NAMA today. I don't think one can find FF corruption and cronyism lurking behind every single decision that's made. Especially when the reasons for the decision are self-evidently rational.

So Mansfield loses City West and his airport and any other assets he has to make up this €200 million? was there a 40% haircut here which means he actually owes €280 million, but NAMA will only pursue for what they paid for the loans. Maybe the haircut was 50-60%. somebody may have the figures. This is a scam,he should be pursued for the full amount by his bank, not by an institution designed by crooks to protect crooks, ie NAMA.
Wallace does'nt have this facility, he must come up with the full €20 million he owes, and rightly so. I'm not defending Wallace,just stating that the rules must be the same for all these guys.
All these guys have assets here and around the globe, the noose must be tightened on them. The taxpayer must be protected.

Einhard

washman3 wrote: »

So Mansfield loses City West and his airport and any other assets he has to make up this €200 million? was there a 40% haircut here which means he actually owes €280 million, but NAMA will only pursue for what they paid for the loans. Maybe the haircut was 50-60%. somebody may have the figures. This is a scam,he should be pursued for the full amount by his bank, not by an institution designed by crooks to protect crooks, ie NAMA.
Wallace does'nt have this facility, he must come up with the full €20 million he owes, and rightly so. I'm not defending Wallace,just stating that the rules must be the same for all these guys.
All these guys have assets here and around the globe, the noose must be tightened on them. The taxpayer must be protected.

The reason Wallace isn't in NAMA is simply because his loans are held by foreign institutions. It's common sense that foreign banks wouldn't be covered by NAMA. Had Wallace loans with Irish banks, his debts would be covered. There's no conspiracy behind it.

I'm not getting into a big debate on the pros and cons of NAMA. I agree that developers should be pursued for all that they owe, and you raise an interesting point re the extent of their debts that NAMA pursues but that's beside the point. It cannot, IMO, be credibly claimed that NAMA was purposefully designed in such a way as to keep Mick Wallace outside of its remit. That doesn't add up.

washman3

Einhard wrote: »

The reason Wallace isn't in NAMA is simply because his loans are held by foreign institutions. It's common sense that foreign banks wouldn't be covered by NAMA. Had Wallace loans with Irish banks, his debts would be covered. There's no conspiracy behind it.

I'm not getting into a big debate on the pros and cons of NAMA. I agree that developers should be pursued for all that they owe, and you raise an interesting point re the extent of their debts that NAMA pursues but that's beside the point. It cannot, IMO, be credibly claimed that NAMA was purposefully designed in such a way as to keep Mick Wallace outside of its remit. That doesn't add up.

Yes i already stated twice the reason Wallace is in NAMA. and it would have been even better common sense that no bank anywhere be covered by it. NAMA is a scam.
I'm not for one minute that NAMA was designed to keep Wallace and his ilk outside but i, like the majority of the Irish population feel strongly that it was specifically designed to help the contributors of the infamous Galway Tent.
Just look at the names involved, just cant be coincinence.

the bolt

godtabh wrote: »

I think there is a differentiation between risk and greed. Fair enough risk is involved in starting anything but having personal guarantees on loans of up to €19m just stinks of greed to me.

He was/is a small time contractor that tried to become a developer. It didnt work out. If you goes bankrupt he should lose his Dail seat. He knew that during the election as it was raised when asked about is company and NAMA.

can you or anyone tell me what difference his been bankrupt would make to his ability to be a TD unless people think it would he would be more likely totake a brown envelope .just dont understand the conection

meglome

the bolt wrote: »

can you or anyone tell me what difference his been bankrupt would make to his ability to be a TD unless people think it would he would be more likely totake a brown envelope .just dont understand the conection

You can't be bankrupt and a TD, rules don't you know.

walrusgumble

HellFireClub wrote: »

Great to see Irish begrudgery alive and kicking on the forum. The guy went out and created jobs, he worked hard, he lost money. Anyone here who hasn't started a business and taken on the huge risk and hardship that comes with that, I think isn't really fit to judge the man.

It's no wonder why we have no jobs in the country with this attitude to entrepreneurship...

Wallace gave an honest interview on Newstalk last month. He previously spoke about the difficulty in getting loans a couple of years ago on Vincent Browne show.There are genuine reasons why he is not pillored by the media.People like Shane Ross has defended him,he has no reason to do so. Wallace has done alot of good non profit things over the years. People should get their facts right.Despite recent blip he looked after his workers

MidlandsM

So, any update on when this greedy developer will be made a bunkrupt?