Do I need to get an Air Tightness test in order to complete BER?

Casati

Hi- my engineer is telling me that in order to get a B1 rating (which I reasonably am expecting to achieve as its a new build with BER advise given and adhered to pre and during the build) I need to fork out 300/ 400 quid to get an air tightness test done also, is this correct?

The house is fully built and decorated, floors/ carpets in place so I dont honestly know what other improvements I could make at this stage so I just want to get my BER rating confirmed

What value will a BER assessor give if I dont have the air tightness test completed- and how do they arrive at this figure, or does the DEAP software assume an estimate based on the other elements? Will it affect the BER rating I get either way?

BryanF

Casati wrote: »

Hi- my engineer is telling me that in order to get a B1 rating (which I reasonably am expecting to achieve as its a new build with BER advise given and adhered to pre and during the build) I need to fork out 300/ 400 quid to get an air tightness test done also, is this correct?

The house is fully built and decorated, floors/ carpets in place so I dont honestly know what other improvements I could make at this stage so I just want to get my BER rating confirmed

1. What value will a BER assessor give if I dont have the air tightness test completed- and how do they arrive at this figure,
2. or does the DEAP software assume an estimate based on the other elements?
3. Will it affect the BER rating I get either way?

1. you have to ask him as he/she has the data. its only a click of a button to tell you..
2. if you do not have an air-tightness result, then the DEAP software will approximate a result, which will generally not be as good as the one in reality.
3. possibly.. it may raise the BER rating to a B2 *you need to ask your BER assessor this

• are you installing MVHR?

• this is a new build, so isn't a B1 the worst expectable rating?
• If so, is there the possibility that for budget constraints (or a lack of the engineers knowledge) other elements have only been built to the minimum regulations?
• maybe our engineer is banking on a good air-tightness result to comply with BER / Building regulations?
• maybe there was a clause in the contract that a certain rating was to be achieved?

also this is the new 2011 regs, your probably obligied to meet the 2008? anyway this is what it says regarding air-tightness testing:

1.3.4.4 Air pressure testing should be carried
out on a proportion of dwellings on all
development sites. See sub-section 1.5.4 for
details of the test procedure, extent of testing,
use of test results in DEAP calculations and
appropriate measures to be undertaken

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,27316,en.pdf

one last thing, ask your engineer why the hell, if an air-tight test was going to be done, why didn't a preliminary one get carried out after first fix? when air-tightness remedial works could have been carried-out?

MicktheMan

Agree with BryanF.

If I may add.
I don't understand your attitude to the airtightness test. You have spent a lot of money building your house which I assume you and your family will enjoy for years to come. You seem fixated on the BER rating result.

In my experience, what the actual BER rating result is can have very little impact on how energy efficient your home is and how comfortable it will be to live in. The correlation of BER rating to energy efficiency/comfort is highly dependent on the knowledge/workmanship of the professionals who designed & built the house.

The airtightness test is one quantative test you can do to determine the actual performance you can expect from your house and, imo, is much more important than what may or may not be printed on a BER cert.

Casati

BryanF wrote: »

[/LIST]

1. you have to ask him as he/she has the data. its only a click of a button to tell you..
2. if you do not have an air-tightness result, then the DEAP software will approximate a result, which will generally not be as good as the one in reality.
3. possibly.. it may raise the BER rating to a B2 *you need to ask your BER assessor this

• are you installing MVHR?

• this is a new build, so isn't a B1 the worst expectable rating?
• If so, is there the possibility that for budget constraints (or a lack of the engineers knowledge) other elements have only been built to the minimum regulations?
• maybe our engineer is banking on a good air-tightness result to comply with BER / Building regulations?
• maybe there was a clause in the contract that a certain rating was to be achieved?

also this is the new 2011 regs, your probably obligied to meet the 2008? anyway this is what it says regarding air-tightness testing:
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,27316,en.pdf

one last thing, ask your engineer why the hell, if an air-tight test was going to be done, why didn't a preliminary one get carried out after first fix? when air-tightness remedial works could have been carried-out?

Thanks for the constructive reply- to be honest I am not really interested in the BER cert but I am aware I will need it when selling the house, so just want to get it completed now before I forget all the details re the house insulation etc.

The eng. provided services pre and during the build but did not manage the build- I took his guidance and managed it myself adhering to all advise etc.

It was built with budget in mind but I did exceed the stated requirements for insultation, used triple glazed low E windows, Themomax tubes, and put a lot of attention into the detail, especially how the insultation was fitted and sealing everywhere except the vents etc. In general the frabric of the building was built to A3/A2 rating level, but its fueled by gas and doesnt have MVHR so I dont think anything above B1 is possible.

Once the children dont leave the doors swinging open it feels quite comfortable too!

BryanF

Casati wrote: »

I am aware I will need it when selling the house, so just want to get it completed now before I forget all the details re the house insulation etc.

all "New homes where planning permission was applied for on or after the 1st of January 2007"http://www.seai.ie/Your_Building/BER/BER_FAQ/FAQ_BER/Homeowners/Who_needs_a_BER_.html

do you have photos, documentation etc... as for example, the BER assessor may have difficulty imputing the wall insulation specification you claim to have installed...

creedp

BryanF wrote: »

all "New homes where planning permission was applied for on or after the 1st of January 2007"http://www.seai.ie/Your_Building/BER/BER_FAQ/FAQ_BER/Homeowners/Who_needs_a_BER_.html

do you have photos, documentation etc... as for example, the BER assessor may have difficulty imputing the wall insulation specification you claim to have installed...

From what i have said previously on this forum many won't be surprised that i have a concern in this area. I got a provisional BER done at beginning and gave my spec the the assessor who did the math. He never advised me to keep certs/documentation/photographs for the final cert so I didn't:) It will be an awful mess now to get this stuff as my builder has/hasn't most of it. Mea aculpa of course but maybe the assessor should take a little responsibility for a lack of guidance here?

Also in my case the airtightness test is NB because i have to keep it below a figure and above a figure - in the range of 2.5 to 4, otherwise I will fail the renewables requirement. I have an heat pump without solar and I have to keep it that way because if I also add a wood burning stove to the equation I fail!! I agree that the BER cert is not very NB only to the extent that I must get one but there you are.

BryanF

creedp wrote: »

From what i have said previously on this forum many won't be surprised that i have a concern in this area. I got a provisional BER done at beginning and gave my spec the the assessor who did the math. He never advised me to keep certs/documentation/photographs for the final cert so I didn't:) It will be an awful mess now to get this stuff as my builder has/hasn't most of it. Mea aculpa of course but maybe the assessor should take a little responsibility for a lack of guidance here?

Also in my case the airtightness test is NB because i have to keep it below a figure and above a figure - in the range of 2.5 to 4, otherwise I will fail the renewables requirement. I have an heat pump without solar and I have to keep it that way because if I also add a wood burning stove to the equation I fail!! I agree that the BER cert is not very NB only to the extent that I must get one but there you are.

you rasie some good points.. but where a BER assessor (who i feel should be an arch or services eng) is worth while, is early on. sounds like the OP hasn't employed anyone yet and so you cant blame the assessor.. here in lie some of the problems of self-building;)

creedp

BryanF wrote: »

you rasie some good points.. but where a BER assessor (who i feel should be an arch or services eng) is worth while, is early on. sounds like the OP hasn't employed anyone yet and so you cant blame the assessor.. here in lie some of the problems of self-building;)

Indeed .. now if I was building again ..... as my 5 year old keeps saying to me when I ask him to do something ... Never!!

No6

I wouldn't sign off on a one off house built under the 2008 part L without an air pressure test. I wouldn't worry too much about it being an A3/B1/B2 rating I would worry more about complying with the carbon requirements which are also assessed in DEAP and in my experience are difficult to comply with in one off houses!!

sinnerboy

You must have an air permeability test done simply to comply with building regulations. The calculated energy performance depending on a design air permeability performance has to be proved by testing.

about2build

Can i ask what are the spec levels of insulation in your wall/roof/floor? Also to the other contributors when should the advice of a qualified BER assessor be employed in relation to a new self build? From the replys it looks like there should be a consultation process throughout the build

BryanF

about2build wrote: »

1. Can i ask what are the spec levels of insulation in your wall/roof/floor?
2. Also to the other contributors when should the advice of a qualified BER assessor be employed in relation to a new self build?
3. From the replys it looks like there should be a consultation process throughout the build

1. passive house levels, apart from maybe windows imo alright below 1.2 overall
2. at design stage, when you can still tweak layout and consider MVHR runs, windows etc.. also do consider a phpp calculation
3. certainly, it si sworth getting a provisional BER early on.. but really your arch should be up to speed on such things..

Casati

sinnerboy wrote: »

You must have an air permeability test done simply to comply with building regulations. The calculated energy performance depending on a design air permeability performance has to be proved by testing.

Sorry- is air permeability the offical term for air tightness test? Nobody asked me for this information so far, I didnt receive any documentation telling me it was a legal requirement

Casati

creedp wrote: »

Indeed .. now if I was building again ..... as my 5 year old keeps saying to me when I ask him to do something ... Never!!

I did employ a BER assor as the ever helpful Council wrote me a letter stating I needed to comply with part L etc, or else they would knock my house.

As such I got the BER assessor to put together elemental requirements regarding insulation values, renewables energy etc and help me convince the Council that I was building within the current regs- money well spent I think. The air tightness level I need to meet was specified also- I need to dig it out.

I spent a lot of time (and money) ensuring that I met these requirements- Xtratherm design service were especially useful in this regard with all the various insultation requirements (its a free service with no obligation to buy their products).

I approached the self build trying to get away with the cheapest build possible, but once I starting learning about the benefits of a warm house, I ended up building to a higher spec that expected- most of my insultation and the related detail are at an A3 level and the completed house feels fairly fairly warm as a result

BryanF

Casati wrote: »

Sorry- is air permeability the offical term for air tightness test? Nobody asked me for this information so far, I didnt receive any documentation telling me it was a legal requirement

mick & sinnerboy point this out recently that the air-test was now a requirement of B'reg compliance. may i just pick you up on one thing here: "nobody" is going to ask you for this information, you are expected to employ consultant professionals to advise you and sign-off your build. BUT you are ultimately responsible at the end of the day if your guys are not competent and up on the regs..

Casati

BryanF wrote: »

mick & sinnerboy point this out recently that the air-test was now a requirement of B'reg compliance. may i just pick you up on one thing here: "nobody" is going to ask you for this information, you are expected to employ consultant professionals to advise you and sign-off your build. BUT you are ultimately responsible at the end of the day if your guys are not competent and up on the regs..

Fair point- I know I'm ultimately responsible, as indeed I am for general compliance with building reg's- though I'm not sure all building regs are treated as a legal requirements, some call out advised practices only

gear_ie

Casati wrote: »

I approached the self build trying to get away with the cheapest build possible, but once I starting learning about the benefits of a warm house, I ended up building to a higher spec that expected- most of my insultation and the related detail are at an A3 level and the completed house feels fairly fairly warm as a result

Casati - I'm looking to start building a block built A-rated house next year. Can you give me details on the levels of insulation you used for foundation, walls, attic to achieve A level?

Many thanks!

sydthebeat

Casati wrote: »

............. as the ever helpful Council wrote me a letter stating I needed to comply with part L ...............

Casati wrote: »

Nobody asked me for this information so far, I didnt receive any documentation telling me it was a legal requirement

sorry, but those statements contradict themselves. It appears you WERE told of your legal requirement to comply with regulations.

though I'm not sure all building regs are treated as a legal requirements, some call out advised practices only

not correct at all.... compliance with ALL applicable regulations are a legal requirement. There are no building regulations which are "advised practises"

there may be advice given as to how to comply, but comply you must.