Bus Eireann routes 109/109A Changes

LXFlyer

Magnate wrote: »

Is there a mistake on the BE website or has the 109A started stopping at the airport for a full hour?

What makes you think that?

Here's the current timetable:
http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1425902170-109A.pdf

Magnate

lxflyer wrote: »

What makes you think that?

Here's the current timetable:
http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1425902170-109A.pdf

I'm trying to buy tickets online and the journey seems to be taking into account an extra hour at the airport



Thanks for the quick reply though, I'll assume that's definitely not the case then.

munchkin_utd

gazzer wrote: »

On the 109. Got on in Cavan at 8am and only leaving Navan. Ridiculous. How the hell do people do this every day?

well, the ridiculous thing is that the busses have to pile through the middle of Navan rather than take the inner by pass.

Its also ridiculous that theres no bus station in Navan, say equivalent to what you'd see in Armagh or Enniskillen up the north, located on the edge of the town center with easy access and exit.
Or even like belfast with a dedicated road straight from the bus station to the motorway along the path of the rail line (look at the map, it'd work perfect in Navan)

but the real problem is that nobody is putting political pressure or seeing it as a vote winner to do copped on things with public transport in this Cavan-Navan-Dublin corridor.
Essentially the voters are at fault, because if the politicans saw votes in it, then improvements in services and infrastructure would happen very quickly.

Vic_08

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Its also ridiculous that theres no bus station in Navan, say equivalent to what you'd see in Armagh or Enniskillen up the north, located on the edge of the town center with easy access and exit.

There is, sort of.

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Navan,+Co.+Meath/@53.6490008,-6.6852441,116m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x486744b335075ed7:0xa00c7a9973172c0!6m1!1e1

Commuter109

Been lucky enough to have had an alternative to the bus for a while , but back using 109 now .One comment and one observation .

The 10 trip student return , is there no leap availability for this . 705 pulled into square at 6.57 on Monday and left Johnstown stop at 728 . yep 30 plus minutes to load passengers . I am assuming students are using the woefully ill thought out option as they don't have a leap option ? Or alternatively the slow cumbersome way is been incentivised price wise ???

Second point , got two expresses home this week , both full , gone and leaving people behind before departure time .


Actually another point !! Lol . 2 of the 5 buses I've got this week , have been overloaded with drivers letting people sit in stairwell . P.I case waiting to happen

foggy_lad

Commuter109 wrote: »

Been lucky enough to have had an alternative to the bus for a while , but back using 109 now .One comment and one observation .

The 10 trip student return , is there no leap availability for this . 705 pulled into square at 6.57 on Monday and left Johnstown stop at 728 . yep 30 plus minutes to load passengers . I am assuming students are using the woefully ill thought out option as they don't have a leap option ? Or alternatively the slow cumbersome way is been incentivised price wise ???

Second point , got two expresses home this week , both full , gone and leaving people behind before departure time .


Actually another point !! Lol . 2 of the 5 buses I've got this week , have been overloaded with drivers letting people sit in stairwell . P.I case waiting to happen

The issue especially on mondays is students producing online tickets that have to be input into the slow machines and a ticket printed off, there is also a delay when a driver has no change and people expect to pay with €50 notes.

As for having people sitting in stairwells or standing anywhere on the normal coaches, this is illegal and the drivers should not ever be overloading their vehicle beyond the stated number of passengers listed on the rating plate.

sofireland

You can only use Student Leap if you shell out for a Leap Card - i checked this with Leap as i've gone back to college.
That ticket i think is €51.80 for 7 days. Or €51.30 online. No real saving and you build up points on the website too which allows you to redeem for a free ticket.

But monday is generally a nightmare for those online tickets!

LXFlyer

As LEAP on Bus Eireann is a zonal product, and cash fares are based on fare stages, it may be that in the case of Navan the 10 Journey ticket offers better value than the 7 day LEAP ticket.

Actually, looking at it:

The LEAP Student 7 day ticket is €51.80.

The Student 10 Journey ticket from Navan town centre is €55 cash or €52.25 online.

Commuter109

sofireland wrote: »

You can only use Student Leap if you shell out for a Leap Card - i checked this with Leap as i've gone back to college.
That ticket i think is €51.80 for 7 days. Or €51.30 online. No real saving and you build up points on the website too which allows you to redeem for a free ticket.

But monday is generally a nightmare for those online tickets!

7.05 express was a no show again this morning!

On the above, just wondering is it the standard leap that is circa 5 euro that is needed ?

Can only assume that the points build up makes it actually better value in the long run for people to use the slow approach of the internet ticket?

I have heard that BE have resisted leap at every turn. Not sure what the politics behind it are. If there is a viable, easy to use option such as Leap available for frequently travellers, those internet tickets should be scrapped for such journeys

sofireland

It's 15 euro to get one. But you have to have a specific student leap card to avail of student leap fares. Thats what they told me anyway.

Commuter109

Carnage again this morning, with a no show on the part of the 7.05 again. The 7.20 private bus left the square at 7.18 full, leaving behind a lot of annoyed people !

At that point the second 7.20 hadn't showed ( which it should have, the bus is meant to depart at 7.20 , not show up at 7.20 , especially on very busy route on a Monday Morning)

Really hope it did show after as the first 7.20 was forced to leave alot of people behind on the square, and off course the 60 plus people waiting at the Ardboyne stop.

munchkin_utd

Commuter109 wrote: »

Carnage again this morning, with a no show on the part of the 7.05 again. The 7.20 private bus left the square at 7.18 full, leaving behind a lot of annoyed people !

At that point the second 7.20 hadn't showed ( which it should have, the bus is meant to depart at 7.20 , not show up at 7.20 , especially on very busy route on a Monday Morning)

Really hope it did show after as the first 7.20 was forced to leave alot of people behind on the square, and off course the 60 plus people waiting at the Ardboyne stop.

to be honest though, this again shows why a proper bus station is needed in the town.

Even in Cavan you can ask the inspector in his office as to the current state of affairs, and in more advanced facilities larger towns like Armagh or Enniskillen or Newry (indeed a different company and country, but somewhere to point the local politican to have a look to see how to do it 40miles up the road or whatever) the busses have proper parking bays and everything is very well organised.

But if theres no command centre (for want of a better word) and parking bays at Navan then it'll never improve.

heres a couple of images of Newry bus station, just to whet the appetite as to what Navan should have rather than a pole outside a newsagents




and in comparison, Navan !

tom23

I dread September and October of every year. Never enough buses for demand and BE slow to react to this. More commuters making their way from ard boyne down to market square with cash and Internet tickets slowing down depatures. Does anyone know when they plan to introduce the new changes or is that gone?

Commuter109

munchkin_utd wrote: »

to be honest though, this again shows why a proper bus station is needed in the town.

Even in Cavan you can ask the inspector in his office as to the current state of affairs, and in more advanced facilities larger towns like Armagh or Enniskillen or Newry (indeed a different company and country, but somewhere to point the local politican to have a look to see how to do it 40miles up the road or whatever) the busses have proper parking bays and everything is very well organised.

But if theres no command centre (for want of a better word) and parking bays at Navan then it'll never improve.

heres a couple of images of Newry bus station, just to whet the appetite as to what Navan should have rather than a pole outside a newsagents




and in comparison, Navan !

Monday morning gone by saw 3 R109's and a R190 all jockeying for position at the square and basically bring Trimgate Street and Kennedy Road to a standstill. Haven't overly thought of the logistics but surely if a bus went straight to the Johnstown stop about 7.10 or so, there would be enough to fill it?

gazzer

A nice pleasant surprise at Busarus. I was on the q for the 5.30 bus to Virginia and a bus was put on for people going to Kells and Virginia that is using the port tunnel

Fiskar

Although I am not using the bus anymore but travel by car and train (altogether a more pleasant and reliable service if not sardine like in the morning) I have relayed Bus Eireann commuters experiences to Shane Cassells - Councillor in Navan. Below is his response and ongoing work in the area in regard to a bus station. I'm only a messenger in this, contact him with your ideas and concerns, his email is on the MeathCO Co website.

Just wanted to bring you up to date on my representations on this matter since you emailed me.

In tandem with your mail I have received a number of queries about delayed services etc for the 109 coming into Navan.

I have been in contact with the Regional Manager in respect of this and asked them to monitor the timetables for this service and to keep me up to date with the efficiency of the service from Kells to Navan and on to Dublin.

In respect of the terminal I have been working on this for quite some time now.

We are in detailed discussions with the NTA on this matter and they are currently working on a plan with a view to bringing this before the council either before Christmas or in the New Year by way of a Part 8 planning application.

This would involve not just a bus hub for the town but also look at traffic movements within the town itself with a view to trying to improve both the flow of traffic, public transport lanes and also taxi hub.

I will keep you up to date on this matter as it progresses and thank you again for contacting me on it.

tom23

Ok call me uncristian. The 07:05 waited around till 07:08 to wait for the the bus from kells to take the people who want to use the 'express' more appropriate name of 'the bus that uses the M3'.

So we promptly entered the M3 at 07:15. A full ten minutes after the listed departure time and only stoping at one stop. Would never happen in bus aras. Irritating and a flawed practice if you make the effort to be on time at the market square stop. It's now a regular occurrence that this happens.

There really is no difference in the 07:05 and the 07:20 except you could set your watch by John who drives the 07:20. The sooner the better these new proposed timetable changes are brought in so that I have more options of getting 'a bus that uses the m3' the better.

Whatsdastory

gazzer wrote: »

A nice pleasant surprise at Busarus. I was on the q for the 5.30 bus to Virginia and a bus was put on for people going to Kells and Virginia that is using the port tunnel

Every day for the last year

gazzer

Whatsdastory wrote: »

Every day for the last year

Seriously? That's good to know. Thanks

Commuter109

No 7.05 again this morning . Shouldn't really surprise me at this stage

foggy_lad

Commuter109 wrote: »

No 7.05 again this morning . Shouldn't really surprise me at this stage

Have you tried complaining to the nta instead of bus eireann? They might put pressure on bus eireann to improve the service?

tom23

20 years commuting and I have to say that this year has been the toughest in terms of service and traffic. From cabra to phibsboro on the way in is a no go area. This city is banjaxed - a decision somewhere has to be made what is the long term solution to traffic congestion in this city.

chewed

tom23 wrote: »

20 years commuting and I have to say that this year has been the toughest in terms of service and traffic. From cabra to phibsboro on the way in is a no go area. This city is banjaxed - a decision somewhere has to be made what is the long term solution to traffic congestion in this city.

I have to agree with you there. It's got really bad this year. I get the 111 and it's the same coming in through Phibsboro in the mornings....complete gridlock. Coming home in the evenings is just as bad. From Cabra to Halfway house the bus crawls. Then on the M50 roundabout it can take 10 mins to get through! It took me over 2 hours to get home to Trim on Tuesday! There are no proper bus lanes going northbound on this route!

It looks like the recession is well and truly over, as everyone seems to be commuting in their cars again.

tom23

chewed wrote: »

I have to agree with you there. It's got really bad this year. I get the 111 and it's the same coming in through Phibsboro in the mornings....complete gridlock. Coming home in the evenings is just as bad. From Cabra to Halfway house the bus crawls. Then on the M50 roundabout it can take 10 mins to get through! It took me over 2 hours to get home to Trim on Tuesday! There are no proper bus lanes going northbound on this route!

It looks like the recession is well and truly over, as everyone seems to be commuting in their cars again.

Cars that's part of the problem and the other been not having a world class public transport that people have 100% faith in. I appreciate folks in bus eireann do their best but at times it can be frustrating to the point where I'm saying I'd be probably better off driving, nearly as cheap and less hassle.

Incidentally does anyone know when these new proposed 109 changes are coming into effect? It really would be an advantage to have an express before 07:00.

munchkin_utd

tom23 wrote: »

20 years commuting and I have to say that this year has been the toughest in terms of service and traffic. From cabra to phibsboro on the way in is a no go area. This city is banjaxed - a decision somewhere has to be made what is the long term solution to traffic congestion in this city.

does it really matter though if theres congestion?
The issue is more, how can the majority of people get to work in the city centre with minimum of fuss.

In Munich, I can drive in the car and experience congestion similar to Dublin and take an hour to get to work
OR, I can hop on an underground and am there in 20minutes (10min travel plus 2 x 5min walking)
I go under the congestion rather than through it.

Clearing the streets of Cabra and Phibsboro might be one solution to people getting held up on busses in congestion, but equally you could just reroute more busses through the port tunnel and for no cost or effort people are getting to work and back on time.
Or just combine bus and rail on the one ticket and offer people the chance to take a shuttle to M3 Parkway from Navan and continue onward by rail (which is the way it'd be done on the continent)

but congestion, its not a problem except when you keep stupidly driving almost every bus through it.

tom23

munchkin_utd wrote: »

does it really matter though if theres congestion?
The issue is more, how can the majority of people get to work in the city centre with minimum of fuss.

In Munich, I can drive in the car and experience congestion similar to Dublin and take an hour to get to work
OR, I can hop on an underground and am there in 20minutes (10min travel plus 2 x 5min walking)
I go under the congestion rather than through it.

Clearing the streets of Cabra and Phibsboro might be one solution to people getting held up on busses in congestion, but equally you could just reroute more busses through the port tunnel and for no cost or effort people are getting to work and back on time.
Or just combine bus and rail on the one ticket and offer people the chance to take a shuttle to M3 Parkway from Navan and continue onward by rail (which is the way it'd be done on the continent)

but congestion, its not a problem except when you keep stupidly driving almost every bus through it.

Can't argue with any of that.

Geuze

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Or just combine bus and rail on the one ticket and offer people the chance to take a shuttle to M3 Parkway from Navan and continue onward by rail (which is the way it'd be done on the continent)

but congestion, its not a problem except when you keep stupidly driving almost every bus through it.

Yes, the fare should cover all modes.

So Navan-Dublin bus should call at M3 railway station 5 mins before train departs.

Simple.

Irish Steve

Geuze wrote: »

Yes, the fare should cover all modes.

So Navan-Dublin bus should call at M3 railway station 5 mins before train departs.

Simple.

Only part of the solution. There should also be an option to connect with a 105 at M3 station, (or other DB services, they're all the same organisation FFS) which takes the existing identical route, and the 109 should then run non stop via DPT to the centre of town. There are plenty of other services that are short distance that can cover the section from M3 Parkway to Phibsboro, and they should be the ones to do it, with the long distance routes going direct at that point.

tom23

Another bug bear of mine is why a bus can't pull out on time? 07:05 moved out at O7:08 the bus just sat there, is there any particular reason for this? Yes it's only three minutes but everything counts these days. 07:20 pulls out exactly on time, if only they could switch that bus and driver onto the 07:05 well that would solve a lot of problems!

Commuter109

Orange weather warning in issue, no fewer than 7 people standing on the R109, sure what could go wrong !!

.Wouldn't mind but the driver is a seasoned one , on the buses for years

foggy_lad

Commuter109 wrote: »

Orange weather warning in issue, no fewer than 7 people standing on the R109, sure what could go wrong !!

.Wouldn't mind but the driver is a seasoned one , on the buses for years

It is totally illegal as well as very dangerous to have people standing on these coaches!

You should report the issue to Bus Eireann as well as to the Gardai and the NTA.

Slippin Jimmy

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is totally illegal as well as very dangerous to have people standing on these coaches!

You should report the issue to Bus Eireann as well as to the Gardai and the NTA.

I do understand your point. But I'm guessing the driver was only trying to be helpful. Damned if you do damned if you don't.

horseburger

Slippin Jimmy wrote: »

I do understand your point. But I'm guessing the driver was only trying to be helpful. Damned if you do damned if you don't.

I was thinking the same, that the driver may have let them on, rather than have them waiting for the next bus, which I am guess was at 9.30pm.

I am guessing the bus in question was the 8.30pm from Bus Aras.

The driver would likely get criticised either way.

Surely the passengers knew they shouldn't be standing, in the same way that when any of us get into a vehicle, we know we should wear a seatbelt.

Perhaps those who were standing, knew they shouldn't really be standing, and had the option of getting the next bus, even if it meant waiting till 9.30pm for the next 109.

I saw a driver of the Donegal midnight bus from Bus Aras getting hassle from people waiting for that bus, on the night of the Script and Fleetwood Mac gigs in Dublin on 20th June, when the bus filled and there wasn't enough space for everyone.

He didn't allow people to stand and there were people left behind. A lot of people got quite verbally aggressive, when they were waiting to get on the bus and it was clear that it was about to fill, and he had to call the guards at Store Street to help form an orderly queue.

It wasn't the drivers fault that there wasn't an extra bus made available.

Since that incident, Bus Éireann have made available extra midnight buses, an Anchor Tours bus from Dundalk, for nights when big events are on and more passengers than usual are expected to use the services.

Commuter109

Be helpful !! be criminally negligent and risk lives.! Sorry not sure I agree with that logic .

It was the 7.30 Cavan bus .

Providing an adequate service on the busiest route in the country at a time when a lot of commuters are still leaving town might be the safer option.

The Resources are there to an extent , they just do not appear to be used in a productive manner with BE trying to be all things to all people .

The 6.30 slow coach to kells had exactly 7 people on it this evening leaving BE. It's the same every evening , there can be up to 30 people in the queue for the 630 express, before the 615 slow coach even departs . I'm not saying the penny hasn't dropped with BE , they just appear to be apathetic to the it.

All in all would agree with previous posters that things are now as bad or worse on that route than they were 15 years ago .

And Unforrunately I read that the Navan train line idea is now pretty much dead in the water full stop. Shame

foggy_lad

horseburger wrote: »

I was thinking the same, that the driver may have let them on, rather than have them waiting for the next bus, which I am guess was at 9.30pm.

I am guessing the bus in question was the 8.30pm from Bus Aras.

The driver would likely get criticised either way.

The driver could not be criticised for hving to leave people behind as drivers are not responsible for service levels the NTA are.

Driver could easily have got penalty points or lost their licence for driving an overloaded coach.

Surely the passengers knew they shouldn't be standing, in the same way that when any of us get into a vehicle, we know we should wear a seatbelt.

Perhaps those who were standing, knew they shouldn't really be standing, and had the option of getting the next bus, even if it meant waiting till 9.30pm for the next 109.

Seriously? Your blaming the passengers for a bus being overloaded??

Passengers have no legal obligation to only board a bus that can accommodate them, if the driver sells them a ticket or allows them board they are on! it is not the fault of the passengers that Bus Eireann and the NTA are not managing the capacity on this service very well!

Will the driver be able to say to a Judge in their own defence that the passengers stayed on the bus even though they had to stand?

I saw a driver of the Donegal midnight bus from Bus Aras getting hassle from people waiting for that bus, on the night of the Script and Fleetwood Mac gigs in Dublin on 20th June, when the bus filled and there wasn't enough space for everyone.

He didn't allow people to stand and there were people left behind. A lot of people got quite verbally aggressive, when they were getting on the bus and it was clear that it was about to fill, and he had to call the guards at Store Street to help form an orderly queue.

It wasn't the drivers fault that there wasn't an extra bus made available.

Since that incident, Bus Éireann have made available extra midnight buses, an Anchor Tours bus from Dundalk, for nights when big events are on and more passengers than usual are expected to use the services.

Absolutely not the drivers fault and I'd say a Gardai report into Bus Eireann HQ about anti social behaviour caused by their failure to anticipate demand would have been embarrassing!

foggy_lad

Why are there no inspectors in Navan/Kells in the mornings to oversee loading of coaches and to swap buses around when larger deckers are running almost empty and 49seat buses are leaving people behind?

Why is there nobody managing the loading of Cavan/Navan/Kells buses in the evenings from Busaras?

Inspectors have company cars/vans, why are they not made earn their money be making sure services are running properly?

horseburger

foggy_lad wrote: »

The driver could not be criticised for hving to leave people behind as drivers are not responsible for service levels the NTA are.

Driver could easily have got penalty points or lost their licence for driving an overloaded coach.
Seriously? Your blaming the passengers for a bus being overloaded??

Passengers have no legal obligation to only board a bus that can accommodate them, if the driver sells them a ticket or allows them board they are on! it is not the fault of the passengers that Bus Eireann and the NTA are not managing the capacity on this service very well!

Will the driver be able to say to a Judge in their own defence that the passengers stayed on the bus even though they had to stand?
Absolutely not the drivers fault and I'd say a Gardai report into Bus Eireann HQ about anti social behaviour caused by their failure to anticipate demand would have been embarrassing!

No. I am not blaming passengers for a bus being overloaded.

I indicated that more recently, Bus Éireann have been making available extra buses on services were they have anticipated extra demand.

I gave the example of the midnight Donegal bus on 20th June to show that people were unhappy when the bus filled, and then started giving out to the driver, when there was no space for them and he didn't allow anyone to stand. In that sense the driver gets criticised either way.

(I have edited my earlier post to clarify that the people who were giving the driver grief, were those who didn't manage to get on the bus. They had been waiting to get on the bus, as it was near filling, and after it had filled.)

I gave that example to suggest that if the option of standing was open to them, I would imagine many of the passengers who were left behind, may well have taken the option to stand, rather than wait seven or so hours for the next buses to Donegal and Cavan, later that same morning.

The point I was making was that, if something did happen while the bus was in motion - on the 109 7.30pm bus in question - and the standing passengers fell over resulting in injury, then they, presumably, in deciding to get on the bus and stand, rather than wait for the next 109 bus at 8pm, would be well aware of the risk of standing on a bus, on a lengthy journey, without having a solid bar to hold on to, of the type available on the Dublin Bus services.

What I was saying was - that if an accident was to happen on the 109 7.30pm bus in question, and standing passengers were injured - should they not share the responsibility, of deciding to stand on a bus - for at least an hour of a journey, if they were going to Navan, or two hours if they were going as far as Cavan - when they had an option of another 109 service 30 minutes later to Navan and Kells?

Another aspect to this is the possibility that some of the seven people who were standing, on the 7.30pm 109 to Cavan, may have been going on further than Navan or Kells, to Virginia or Cavan?

If that was the case, and they did not stand on that 7.30pm 109 bus, they would have had to wait an hour for the next 109 to Cavan, at 8.30pm, whereas anyone for Navan and Kells on the 7.30pm 109 to Cavan, had another service to Navan and Kells at 8pm.

Maybe the passengers for Virginia and Cavan were not able to get the number 30 Donegal bus to Cavan at 7.30pm, because on that 30 service, preference is given to people for places between Cavan and Donegal, in times when it is very busy. In cases when the 30 bus is very busy, those passengers for Cavan who had intended to use the 30 bus service are requested to use the 109. The next 30 bus to Donegal after the 7.30pm service is 10pm.

Perhaps, some of the passengers on that 7.30pm 109 Cavan service, who were going to Navan or Kells, and were seated, could have waited for the 8pm 109 to Navan and Kells, if those who were standing included people going further to Virginia or Cavan?

That might be one way of ensuring that there was enough seats available, with no one standing, on the two 109 services, for anyone heading home from Dublin to Navan, Kells, Virginia and Cavan within that 30 minute period of 7.30pm - 8pm.

Commuter109

A farce again this morning , 705 pretty much full and ready to go , now they have emptied it on to the 720 , can only assume it wouldn't start

foggy_lad

horseburger wrote: »

No. I am not blaming passengers for a bus being overloaded.

Thank you for the clarification.

The point I was making was that, if something did happen while the bus was in motion - on the 109 7.30pm bus in question - and the standing passengers fell over resulting in injury, then they, presumably, in deciding to get on the bus and stand, rather than wait for the next 109 bus at 8pm, would be well aware of the risk of standing on a bus, on a lengthy journey, without having a solid bar to hold on to, of the type available on the Dublin Bus services.

What I was saying was - that if an accident was to happen on the 109 7.30pm bus in question, and standing passengers were injured - should they not share the responsibility, of deciding to stand on a bus - for at least an hour of a journey, if they were going to Navan, or two hours if they were going as far as Cavan - when they had an option of another 109 service 30 minutes later to Navan and Kells?

Responsibility is the driver's and nobody else's! 100% Full Stop.

Another aspect to this is the possibility that some of the seven people who were standing, on the 7.30pm 109 to Cavan, may have been going on further than Navan or Kells, to Virginia or Cavan?

If that was the case, and they did not stand on that 7.30pm 109 bus, they would have had to wait an hour for the next 109 to Cavan, at 8.30pm, whereas anyone for Navan and Kells on the 7.30pm 109 to Cavan, had another service to Navan and Kells at 8pm.

Down to poor management by the company in not putting Kells/Navan passengers from the Cavan bus onto the Kells/Navan bus, but at the end of the day the bus and all passengers boarded are the responsibility of the driver and nobody else.

Maybe the passengers for Virginia and Cavan were not able to get the number 30 Donegal bus to Cavan at 7.30pm, because on that 30 service, preference is given to people for places between Cavan and Donegal, in times when it is very busy. In cases when the 30 bus is very busy, those passengers for Cavan who had intended to use the 30 bus service are requested to use the 109. The next 30 bus to Donegal after the 7.30pm service is 10pm.

Perhaps, some of the passengers on that 7.30pm 109 Cavan service, who were going to Navan or Kells, and were seated, could have waited for the 8pm 109 to Navan and Kells, if those who were standing included people going further to Virginia or Cavan?

That might be one way of ensuring that there was enough seats available, with no one standing, on the two 109 services, for anyone heading home from Dublin to Navan, Kells, Virginia and Cavan within that 30 minute period of 7.30pm - 8pm.

Again capacity issues fall within the remit of the company and the NTA while the bus and all passengers boarded are the responsibility of the driver.

horseburger

foggy_lad wrote: »

Thank you for the clarification.
Responsibility is the driver's and nobody else's! 100% Full Stop.
Down to poor management by the company in not putting Kells/Navan passengers from the Cavan bus onto the Kells/Navan bus, but at the end of the day the bus and all passengers boarded are the responsibility of the driver and nobody else.
Again capacity issues fall within the remit of the company and the NTA while the bus and all passengers boarded are the responsibility of the driver.

The practice of requesting passengers use another bus is done, as far as I know, when there is another service going to the same town, with both buses departing Bus Aras, or the airport, at the same time.

For example, if there are two 109s leaving at the same time, and one terminates in Navan and the other terminates in Kells, they may request that Navan passengers use one of the buses, to ensure there is enough space on the other bus for anyone going to or from Dunshaughlin.

Another example is the number 32 Letterkenny and 33 Derry bus. At the airport, they often have an extra bus for anyone for Monaghan or other intermediate towns on the route, so that there is enough room on the bus that has already left Bus Aras, for anyone waiting at the airport going on as far as Derry or Letterkenny.

Also, in the case of the Belfast bus, they will put on an extra bus for people going to Newry.

In the case of the 7.30pm 109 to Cavan from Bus Aras, the next bus to Navan and Kells is at 8pm and the next bus to Cavan at 8.30pm.

In fairness to Bus Éireann and the NTA, with regard to capacity issues, in the last 10 years they have greatly increased the frequency of the 109 services to and from Dublin, Dunshaughlin, Navan, and Kells.

There are buses to Navan and Kells from Bus Aras every 30 minutes until 8.30pm and then at 9.30pm, 10.30pm, 11.30pm, Monday - Saturday, and then the midnight Donegal number 30 bus, from Store Street at Bus Aras, also serves Navan and Kells every night.

(The last 109 on a Sunday from Bus Aras is 11pm.)

15 -20 years ago around 1996-1997, the 109 service from Dublin during the day - as far as I recall - used to include services at 8am, 9.30am, 10am, 11am, 11.45am, 12pm, 1.45pm, 2.30pm, 4pm, 5pm, 6pm and then I think it was every hour.

The last 109 every night used to be 10.45pm. In 2000 they changed that to make the last 109 at 11pm every night. In October 2011 they changed the last 109 to 11.30pm Monday - Saturday.

Out of curiosity, if it was you, and the bus you wanted to get was full and you were given the option to stand, would you stand, if otherwise, it meant waiting 30 minutes for the next bus.

If I was in that situation, I would wait for the next bus, it's less hassle than standing.

foggy_lad

horseburger wrote: »

The practice of requesting passengers use another bus is done, as far as I know, when there is another service going to the same town, with both buses departing Bus Aras, or the airport, at the same time.

For example, if there are two 109s leaving at the same time, and one terminates in Navan and the other terminates in Kells, they may request that Navan passengers use one of the buses, to ensure there is enough space on the other bus for anyone going to or from Dunshaughlin.

This is done only sometimes, most times the cavan buses are full of people going to Navan/Kells who should be made wait until all those going to Cavan/virginia are boarded and also space reserved for those boarding at the Mater and the other city stops.

Another issue that crops up regularly on other routes is the buses used for services where a single deck bus is used where a double decker should be used but the double deck is used on services with much lower loadings. This often happens on the 120 where the 123 and 121 are often deckers and very often only half full while the 120 15 minutes before and after are single deckers and leave people behind or allow people to stand. This is again down to management as drivers just take what bus is available at the start of their shift and stay with that bus unless told otherwise by inspectors.Some drivers prefer the single deckers so will take them from the depot in the morning for the busiest services rather than have to drive the double deckers all shift.

Another example is the number 32 Letterkenny and 33 Derry bus. At the airport, they often have an extra bus for anyone for Monaghan or other intermediate towns on the route, so that there is enough room on the bus that has already left Bus Aras, for anyone waiting at the airport going on as far as Derry or Letterkenny.

these few extra buses should really be put on from Busaras rather than have serious delays at the airport trying to sort out passengers between the two buses.

Similar delays occur in Carlow when the bus eireann route 4 tries to "organise" the extra bus from Carlow IT on Fridays to suit themselves. They regularly take at least ten extra minutes in Carlow after arriving about 15 minutes late swapping passengers for the red cow and Newlands Cross so that the Bus Eireann driver can get to finish early at the airport. This would not be an issue if it was on the timetable but it appears to be unofficial management from the drivers between themselves.

Also, in the case of the Belfast bus, they will put on an extra bus for people going to Newry.

In the case of the 7.30pm 109 to Cavan from Bus Aras, the next bus to Navan and Kells is at 8pm and the next bus to Cavan at 8.30pm.

In fairness to Bus Éireann and the NTA, with regard to capacity issues, in the last 10 years they have greatly increased the frequency of the 109 services to and from Dublin, Dunshaughlin, Navan, and Kells.

There are buses to Navan and Kells from Bus Aras every 30 minutes until 8.30pm and then at 9.30pm, 10.30pm, 11.30pm, Monday - Saturday, and then the midnight Donegal number 30 bus, from Store Street at Bus Aras, also serves Navan and Kells every night.

(The last 109 on a Sunday from Bus Aras is 11pm.)

15 -20 years ago around 1996-1997, the 109 service from Dublin during the day - as far as I recall - used to include services at 8am, 9.30am, 10am, 11am, 11.45am, 12pm, 1.45pm, 2.30pm, 4pm, 5pm, 6pm and then I think it was every hour.

The last 109 every night used to be 10.45pm. In 2000 they changed that to make the last 109 at 11pm every night. In October 2011 they changed the last 109 to 11.30pm Monday - Saturday.

Out of curiosity, if it was you, and the bus you wanted to get was full and you were given the option to stand, would you stand, if otherwise, it meant waiting 30 minutes for the next bus.

If I was in that situation, I would wait for the next bus, it's less hassle than standing.

As far as capacity I was on about the deckers being used for services with low loadings while single deckers are regularly used on peak services with much higher loadings.

If a driver is leaving Navan for Dublin early morning they should be driving a double decker but not all drivers like to drive them. And yes I know that there are only so many deckers to go around but on several occasions I have been on single deck coaches on route 120 that had people standing on trips to Edenderry while the service to Tullamore or Robertstown/Kilmeague that left at the same time was operated with a decker for only a handful of passengers. With proper management those buses should/would have been switched at Connolly station.

I agree that the number of services per day has increased a huge amount on all routes but so has the number of passengers travelling.

horseburger

foggy_lad wrote: »

This is done only sometimes, most times the cavan buses are full of people going to Navan/Kells who should be made wait until all those going to Cavan/virginia are boarded and also space reserved for those boarding at the Mater and the other city stops.

Another issue that crops up regularly on other routes is the buses used for services where a single deck bus is used where a double decker should be used but the double deck is used on services with much lower loadings. This often happens on the 120 where the 123 and 121 are often deckers and very often only half full while the 120 15 minutes before and after are single deckers and leave people behind or allow people to stand. This is again down to management as drivers just take what bus is available at the start of their shift and stay with that bus unless told otherwise by inspectors.Some drivers prefer the single deckers so will take them from the depot in the morning for the busiest services rather than have to drive the double deckers all shift.

these few extra buses should really be put on from Busaras rather than have serious delays at the airport trying to sort out passengers between the two buses.

If a driver is leaving Navan for Dublin early morning they should be driving a double decker but not all drivers like to drive them. And yes I know that there are only so many deckers to go around but on several occasions I have been on single deck coaches on route 120 that had people standing on trips to Edenderry while the service to Tullamore or Robertstown/Kilmeague that left at the same time was operated with a decker for only a handful of passengers. With proper management those buses should/would have been switched at Connolly station.

I agree that the number of services per day has increased a huge amount on all routes but so has the number of passengers travelling.

Indeed, it would be interesting to know, if Cavan and Virginia passengers had boarded the bus first, on the 7.30pm 109 to Cavan in question - and if Navan/Kells passengers were asked to wait for the next 109 at 8pm - would it have resulted in everyone getting a seat between the two buses, with no one standing?

It would be interesting to know, if any of the seven people who were standing, were going on to Virginia or Cavan. If there were, perhaps they could argue a case for giving priority to people going further than Navan and Kells on the 109 Dublin - Cavan services, in cases when there is a 109 to Navan and Kells 30 minutes later, as opposed to an hour for the next service to Cavan.

One reason that they may have those extra buses leaving from the airport rather than at Bus Aras may be because during the day, depending on traffic, it can take a good 10 minutes longer than usual to get from Bus Aras to the airport, and at least if the extra bus is at the airport they can then have passengers board it from there, before the other bus arrives at the airport.

The Belfast services, as an example, that leave Bus Aras at 4pm and 5pm, and are timetabled to be at the airport at 20 past the hour, may not arrive at the airport till around 4.30pm, or 5.30pm, depending on traffic from the city centre.

Another example is the Letterkenny 32 or Derry 33 services, which may be delayed coming from Bus Aras, due to traffic. They can load the extra bus going to Monaghan, before the buses that leave from Bus Aras, have arrived at the airport.

In contrast, at night, the midnight Donegal 30 bus from Bus Aras and Dundalk 100X service from Custom House Quay - both of which are scheduled to leave the airport at 12.20am - both usually arrive at the airport at around 12.15am.

I'm just wondering, can you be certain that drivers are choosing to take single decker buses, instead of double decker buses, on the basis that they prefer driving them, rather than availability?

foggy_lad

Any bus going farther than Navan/Kells should be using the port tunnel and not serving any stops between Busaras and Navan. Anyone going to Navan/Kells should be made pay a 30% premium for travelling on the 109 that goes to Cavan.

Regardless of extra buses there are still going to be people going to Kells and Navan who will intentionally get the almost express Cavan bus because it is a better more relaxed journey and a lot faster than the others.

horseburger

foggy_lad wrote: »

Any bus going farther than Navan/Kells should be using the port tunnel and not serving any stops between Busaras and Navan. Anyone going to Navan/Kells should be made pay a 30% premium for travelling on the 109 that goes to Cavan.

Regardless of extra buses there are still going to be people going to Kells and Navan who will intentionally get the almost express Cavan bus because it is a better more relaxed journey and a lot faster than the others.

I don't see how that would work, considering that not all the Cavan buses would be full, to or from Dublin, so Navan and Kells passengers would end up being penalised for using a service with available seats.

I had a discussion with someone before who argued that Cavan passengers should pay more, if they want to use the 30 Donegal bus.

If that measure was implemented, then Cavan passengers on the Donegal bus would end up paying pretty much the same price as the fare from Dublin to Donegal, even though Cavan is halfway along the route.

(Dublin to Cavan single fare is 16.70, and Dublin to Donegal single fare is 20.50.)

You stated before that you believe that drivers are choosing single deck buses instead of double deck buses.

Can you be certain that drivers are choosing to take single decker buses, instead of double decker buses, on the basis that they prefer driving them, rather than availability?

foggy_lad

horseburger wrote: »

I don't see how that would work, considering that not all the Cavan buses would be full, to or from Dublin, so Navan and Kells passengers would end up being penalised for using a service with available seats.

TBH I am not sure how or if it would work myself, it was more a suggestion than something that should be implemented but in Busaras all Navan/Kells passengers should be prevented from boarding until the very last minute so that Cavan passengers can at least get the pick of seats and sit together etc on the services designed for them.

I had a discussion with someone before who argued that Cavan passengers should pay more, if they want to use the 30 Donegal bus.

If that measure was implemented, then Cavan passengers on the Donegal bus would end up paying pretty much the same price as the fare from Dublin to Donegal, even though Cavan is halfway along the route.

(Dublin to Cavan single fare is 16.70, and Dublin to Donegal single fare is 20.50.)

Indeed fares are all high enough without penalising people for where they want to travel to.

You stated before that you believe that drivers are choosing single deck buses instead of double deck buses.

Can you be certain that drivers are choosing to take single decker buses, instead of double decker buses, on the basis that they prefer driving them, rather than availability?

I was told before by more than one driver that in outlying depots like the yard in Edenderry and Athboy and other places it is a first up best dressed policy with the buses that are kept in those yards overnight and the drivers that get there first get to chose what they think is the best bus or ones they prefer to drive.

tom23

Market square a disaster for again this morning. No 07.05, 07.20 pulls in at its usual punctual time and is full in minutes. A big lump of people left behind. I'm seeing a trend here. I wish there was 06.50 express.

tom23

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why are there no inspectors in Navan/Kells in the mornings to oversee loading of coaches and to swap buses around when larger deckers are running almost empty and 49seat buses are leaving people behind?

Why is there nobody managing the loading of Cavan/Navan/Kells buses in the evenings from Busaras?

Inspectors have company cars/vans, why are they not made earn their money be making sure services are running properly?

There's not a day goes when I ask myself those questions. It seems the busiest most lucrative route in the country is the least inspected. Little things like closing the door st bus aras as the bus departs wound be helpful to stop late commuters trying to get on, ya get delayed by even 1 minute leaving bus aras you could be in trouble.

Market square at times is a lottery.

Commuter109

Agreed , mess this morning again . I don't usually take the 705 , but the odd time I need to be in a little earlier and try to make it , it doesn't show a worrying percentage of the time .

Just on the topic of expresses, heard a rumour there is a 'secret ' 9.3O pm service that serves Navan express , but isnt timetabled . Anyone know anything about it ???. Thanks

horseburger

tom23 wrote: »

There's not a day goes when I ask myself those questions. It seems the busiest most lucrative route in the country is the least inspected. Little things like closing the door st bus aras as the bus departs wound be helpful to stop late commuters trying to get on, ya get delayed by even 1 minute leaving bus aras you could be in trouble.

Market square at times is a lottery.

Have you ever just about caught a bus before it departs?

If so, and you were delayed earlier, through no fault of your own, for whatever reason, perhaps by being delayed by road works, on a Luas or Dublin Bus heading towards Bus Aras, or on a Dublin Bus that terminates at Eden Quay, and you then had to run down to Bus Aras with three or four minutes to spare, would you appreciate it if the people who were already on the bus, resented the fact that you got on the bus, criticising you for delaying them?

Or would your reaction be more along the lines of relief that you caught the bus and didn't have to wait 30 minutes for the next service?

Your fellow commuters, I'm sure, did not intend to go through the stress of being delayed coming from wherever they were coming from, and then getting down to the station with such little time to spare, to be able to just about get the bus before it departs.

Slippin Jimmy

horseburger wrote: »

If so, and you were delayed earlier, through no fault of your own, for whatever reason, perhaps by being delayed by road works, on a Luas or Dublin Bus heading towards Bus Aras, or on a Dublin Bus that terminates at Eden Quay, and you then had to run down to Bus Aras with three or four minutes to spare, would you appreciate it if the people who were already on the bus, resented the fact that you got on the bus, criticising you for delaying them?

Yes I would agree with the passengers on the bus. Once the door closes that should be it. Why should I be delayed further when I've made sure I was there on time?

Every minute counts getting out of Bus Aras. The other day I got the 15.30 and some clown was late and the driver let them on. We didn't leave until 15.33 because they had to buy a ticket on the bus and of course they couldn't find their money.