Vets being replaced by Agricultural officiers in Meat Factory

blue5000

Traonach wrote: »

If the cow was dead how could the calf be alive, since the calf needs the dam to be alive.

What did you clamp to stop the bleeding???

I'm guessing a vicegrips:)

Traonach

blue5000 wrote: »

I'm guessing a vicegrips:)

Probably a rusty one, but it's ok he knew what he was doing....

5live

Traonach wrote: »

Probably a rusty one, but it's ok he knew what he was doing....

Dont keep rusty vicegrips, looked after and put away in their proper place;). We used a needle and thread and actually a few clothes pegs to reduce the flow of blood.

5live

Traonach wrote: »

If the cow was dead how could the calf be alive, since the calf needs the dam to be alive.

What did you clamp to stop the bleeding???

The calf will still be alive for about a minute(?) or so after the blood flow stops so still alive till then. Very visible in factories, apparently. But you knew that already....

Lizard_Moon

5live wrote: »

Dont keep rusty vicegrips, looked after and put away in their proper place;). We used a needle and thread and actually a few clothes pegs to reduce the flow of blood.

All packed away in your little ' what to use when I have fecked up a calving and didn't bother getting help earlier kit'???

You seem to think what you did was great, I think you should never have been in that situation.
We all make mistakes, wrong judgements, but don't go around saying how wonderful we were to get a live calf out by butchering a cow we killed by trying to dog it- you said so in your reply to my earlier post that there was LOTS of intervention

You are encouraging others to do as you did, which is horrendous.

Again my point instead of Farmers wanting to get 'trained up' to do c-sections they should concentrate on their responsibilities first.

Good breeding management. Good facilities. Good relationship with your vet and the knowledge to know when to call for help.

whelan1

a few years ago , i cut my arm when vaccinating the cows i came off worse between a cow and the bar off the crush, local gp lives up the road, he put 4 stitches in with no anaesthetic, now it was sore could feel the needle and thread going in and out but i survived- just about:rolleyes:-anaesthetic was not reccommended because where the cut was it could relax me and i could pump blood... now i am not for farmers doing what a vet should but in emergency situations needs must

highcream

bob charles wrote: »

is it? your certain of that? obvisouly to practice for reward it would be, but all other circumstances.

Good point.
Spoke to my uncle this morning(vet in the department).
Yes,it is illegal to perform any veterinary surgery unless u have special dispensation(or something like that) from the veterinary council.The latter is basically 2 guys on the UCD vet farm who perform sections on sheep and always did.
He is very pedantic so i would say he is right.
Also,the medicines/anaesthetic for the surgery/after care of a C section performed by a lay person would be illegal to prescribe for that purpose.
Apparently,a vet shop is not supposed to be like a sweet shop where u just buy what u want(i know it doesnt work this way in reality,but still thats the law).

I never said a farmer could not perform a c section if u read my post properly.I actually stated a lay person could be trained to do it.
I have 2 uncles who are farmers.One uses pallets as a crush,the other i would trust doing surgery.
Anyway,at least its all settled now.

P.s.Please dont try to start a cyber argument with me cos of this post.The are futile and im just giving the facts.

pajero12

highcream wrote: »

Good point.
Spoke to my uncle this morning(vet in the department).
Yes,it is illegal to perform any veterinary surgery unless u have special dispensation(or something like that) from the veterinary council.The latter is basically 2 guys on the UCD vet farm who perform sections on sheep and always did.
He is very pedantic so i would say he is right.
Also,the medicines/anaesthetic for the surgery/after care of a C section performed by a lay person would be illegal to prescribe for that purpose.
Apparently,a vet shop is not supposed to be like a sweet shop where u just buy what u want(i know it doesnt work this way in reality,but still thats the law).

I never said a farmer could not perform a c section if u read my post properly.I actually stated a lay person could be trained to do it.
I have 2 uncles who are farmers.One uses pallets as a crush,the other i would trust doing surgery.
Anyway,at least its all settled now.

P.s.Please dont try to start a cyber argument with me cos of this post.The are futile and im just giving the facts.

Without being pedantic, Anaesthetic and PenStrep arent hard come by!

Traonach

5live wrote: »

.
One abroad, no vet available, animal would have died, we sectioned and barely kept twins alive, clamped the bleeding and eventually vet arrived and closed her up and prescribed antibiotics. All 3 survived.
All legal and above board. No exotic complications (bar location). Veterinary supervision after the fact.

Why did you "c-section" the cow/heifer with twins? Did you use local? What did the clothes peg stop bleeding?

LostCovey

whelan1 wrote: »

... now i am not for farmers doing what a vet should but in emergency situations needs must

If something is cruel and illegal, it is still cruel and illegal in an "emergency situation", especially if the "emergency situation" is one artificially contrived by poor bull choice, lack of preparation, slack supervision, panicky decision-making, etc.

And the prospect of losing a few hundred in the value of a calf is not enough of an emergency in my book to butcher a poor dumb animal utterly in our control and at our mercy (!).

Cutting open cows without anaesthetic to drag out a calf for commercial gain is a crime in this country, remember that, when all this macho posturing about hairy chested butchering of live pregnant cows and the nonsense about heroics with clothes pegs dies down.

Comparing getting a few stitches in a skin wound without an anaesthetic with a raw caesarian section done by an amateur is quite absurd.

I feel your pain Whelan1, but it was nothing compared to what that cow was put through.

We still haven't heard where that allegedly happened, or what was clamped with clothes pegs to stop bleeding.

It sounds utterly horrendous.

LC

SoJoMo

“You young squirts couldn’t lance a pimple without an electric vibrating scalpel with automatic drain and suture…. Soon we’ll be operating by remote control on patients we never see…. We’ll be nothing but button pushers. All the skill is going out of surgery…. All the know-how and make-do… Did I ever tell you about the time I performed an appendectomy with a rusty sardine can? And once I was caught short without instrument one and removed a uterine tumor with my teeth. That was in the Upper Effendi, and besides…”

keep going

going back to the original question what do the vets actually do in the factories

Aru

keep going wrote: »

going back to the original question what do the vets actually do in the factories

The vet on the line is responsible for ensuring that the carcass is fit for human consumption and that welfare standards-ie a clean death are being adhered to.

They check every head to see the bolt gun wound and can shut down the line if there are multiple cattle with more than one injury.

On the predeath inspection the vet has to observe all animals that are due to be slaughtered and check those that show signs of disease by observation using their clinical knowledge to decide which can and cannot be slaughtered for human consumption.
Systemically sick animals are not ment to enter the factory as their meat and blood could pass on an infection to the person eating it.They also check for bse signs.They treat animals who are under suspicion of bsc for grass tetany and milk fever as these look similar to bse and a response to treatment means the animal is not bse positive.

The vet has to check the tongue,the muscles of the head, and the heads lymph nodes for signs of infection with tuberculosis and for parasites within the muscles of the head-as both of these issues can be passed onto humans who consume the milk.They also have to able to assess the head for any abnormalities or other disease process'...so anything really that they can see that could have caused an infection.....

They have to look at the liver lungs etc to look for signs of disease infection and diseases.
They decide if the carcass is safe overall or if areas need to be condemned...and if so which areas.They observe the carcass for signs of other diseases.
They observed the meat that pass's initial inspection for signs of illness such as emaciation jaundice. loss of rigor later on as all of these could mean its not safe for humans to eat.
They are involved in checking that the correct standards of hygiene are adhered to in the factory.
theres more as well but i think I have rambled on enough.

Vets are not employed by the factorys. They are ment to be an outside unbias factor there to keep our meat safe...

Not the easiest job to do if you dont know your diseases well. I do wonder how an agricultural officer is expected to know all the disease's that can cuse systemic illness in cattle sheep pigs and poultry and what they look like live and on a dead carcass.....and how they decide which ones are safe for people to eat the meat from....I've done 5 years of a vet degree and I dont feel near ready to apply for TVI work yet as I need more practical experience.......but ya I guess economics is more important at the minute than food safety.

rancher

whelan1 wrote: »

a few years ago , i cut my arm when vaccinating the cows i came off worse between a cow and the bar off the crush, local gp lives up the road, he put 4 stitches in with no anaesthetic, now it was sore could feel the needle and thread going in and out but i survived- just about:rolleyes:-anaesthetic was not reccommended because where the cut was it could relax me and i could pump blood...

Also you would have a needle put in twice to give an anaesthetic, have been there, skin is kinda numb with a bad cut any way