Black Sabbath off again, on again??

grames_bond

'sigh' I hate Sharon!!

Nodferatu

BLACK SABBATH drummer Bill Ward has released the following statement:

"Dear SABBATH fans and fellow musicians,

"I sincerely regret to inform you that after a final effort to participate in the upcoming SABBATH shows, a failure to agree has continued. At this time I have to inform you that I won't be playing with BLACK SABBATH at the Birmingham gig dated May 19th, 2012, nor will I be playing at [U.K.'s] Download [festival] on June 10th, 2012. Further, I will not be playing at Lollapalooza [festival] on August 3, 2012.

"It is with a very sad heart that I bring you this news. I am sincerely passionate in my desire to play with the band, and I'm very, very sorry that it's fallen to this. This statement is even more painstaking to write, as I was particularly excited to play alongside Tony Iommi after the recent treatments he underwent. I wanted that to become a reality.

"To express my thoughts about you, the SABBATH fans, I'm going to speak to you all through an experience my brother James had recently. My brother Jimmy lives in the U.K. When speaking with him a couple of days ago, he told me that an acquaintance had stopped him on the street and confronted him, 'Is your brother playing Birmingham? What's going on? I waited in line with my son and paid X amount for the concert tickets.'

"The man's son is a young drummer. He's going to see SABBATH, and he wants to see Bill Ward play drums.

"Upon hearing this news, I felt horrible. I couldn't help feeling some resentment towards the failure to reach an agreement, the failure to remember where we came from, the failure to be as brothers, as we once were.

"To be clear, I'm not blaming the other guys or finding any faults with them. I would think it can't be easy for them either, but this situation is just really sad. It's sad that it's come to this. 'This' will surely leave a mark and be unwelcome to the memory. Hopefully 'this' will heal and pass in time.

"My heart sank when Jimmy told me about this young boy. I know this boy is going to be disappointed, and I don't know how to amend it, other than to put my arms around the boy and tell him I love him.

"SABBATH fans have a voice and a face. To me you're human, you have families and despair. You have ferocity and emotions and graciousness, and at this moment, as far as I'm concerned, you are also that young boy in England. I don't know how to amend my part in these failings other than to put my arms around you and say I love you and let you know I'm very, very sorry.

"Throughout this process, which began over a year ago, I have had to stand up for myself time and time again. I have had to stand up for myself and in doing so realize my actions indirectly, although unintentionally, are upsetting and hurting a lot of you. I know in my heart I couldn't have done these concerts by agreeing the terms suggested. I made a solemn vow after the last European and Ozzfest concerts that I would never again enter into what was, in my opinion, a totally unsatisfactory contract. I have to stand for something, and as painful as it is, I'm doing it.

"Earlier in April 2012, I'd been asked to participate 'minimally' in the Download festival. I believe I'd been offered no more than three songs to play while another drummer presumably played the rest of the show with BLACK SABBATH. I was not willing to participate in that offer. I was not prepared to watch another drummer play a SABBATH set, while I was to play only three songs.

"I found out about the Birmingham gig on Monday, April 30 through the Internet ad. I was taken aback somewhat by the date, and the fact it was Birmingham. Knowing the 'signable' contract negotiations were at best in shreds, I was upset by the idea that the band was going to play Birmingham and play it assumedly without me. I had no prior knowledge of the date and location, and I felt totally excluded. We contacted the representative for BLACK SABBATH to see if something could be worked out. In the meantime, my drum crew and I, along with our U.S. endorsers, finished all the necessary planning for a swift departure to the U.K. There wasn't a whole lot to complete; we'd all been on standby more or less since mid-January 2012. The remaining work in the U.K. was confirmed done by our European and U.K. endorsers and we were good to go by Friday, May 4 2012. There were two stress points: firstly, getting an agreement in place, and secondly, getting to England in a timely manner. Jetlag time was taken into account as well as drum practice, a drum practice room in the heart of Birmingham, accommodation, and travel arrangements were all in place to meet with any band rehearsals that may have transpired before the Birmingham show. So far everything that had been arranged was on my dime, but we didn't move ahead without a realistic confirmation.

"Communications between the representative and my lawyer continued through the weekend of May 5, finalizing on Wednesday, May 9. The offer we received on May 9 was, 'Come to the U.K., play for free and see how the first show goes.' I was tempted. Playing for free would not have been a problem for me, but 'seeing how the first show goes' left an element of risk which could have affected Download. My ideal thought was to play in full the Birmingham show, in full Download, and in full Lollapalooza.

"I had notified the representative that May 10 was my cutoff day in order to have good lead-in time for England. On the night of May 9, I asked for a brief letter to be sent to the representative asking to find out if we were at an end. On the morning of Thursday, May 10, I received a reply in the affirmative. After consulting with my advisors and crew, a decision was made to let go and stop.

"I can't prioritize the SABBATH fans making one show more important than the other. I can't do that. All of you are important. It's all the gigs or none at all. I can't come to Birmingham and 'see what happens' knowing there is a risk of not being able to play Download or Lollapalooza. Again, for me, it's all or nothing. I had to say 'no' to Birmingham on the principle of wanting to play all the shows.

"Saying no to Birmingham is very difficult for me. My family grew up in Birmingham. BLACK SABBATH grew up in Birmingham. It's still my hometown and I resent having to arrive at such a difficult choice.

"Although the statement was made that 'the door is always open' for me, as explained above, walking through that door is not always as easy as it sounds. There are many complicated issues and unseen and unspoken agendas on hand. I can assure you, my criteria for a 'signable' contract is based in mindful principles, respectability, and acknowledgement of my history within the band.

"I hold no malice or resentment towards the other band members. I love them; I'm tolerant of them; I'm frustrated with them, as they may be with me. My fight has never been with them. I'll love them forever. In my opinion, nobody wins this time; the band doesn't win; the fans for an original lineup don't win. Nobody wins, nobody. Even the ones who thought they did.

"I didn't want to make this decision, but I have to be honest and transparent. This is the statement I didn't want to write; it's the last thing I wanted to do. But, I have written it, and now it can go into the universe.

"Since spring of 2011, I've waited patiently and hopefully for a signable contract, you know the rest. I stand for the boy in the U.K., for the coming drum student, for all the drummers, who write their parts out and get stiffed on the publishing, I stand with the SABBATH fans chanting 'Bill Ward' and asking 'why?' and I stand with Tony and Geezer and Ozzy.

"On a final note, even though I'm at an end with the upcoming announced concerts, I will remain with an open mind and a position of willingness to negotiate 'signable' terms with SABBATH's representatives in the future.

"Stay strong. Stay safe.

"With all my heart and strength, I love you, Bill Ward.

"Following on a separate page is a thank you message to some very extraordinary people."

Ozzy Osbourne's wife and manager, Sharon, said recently that SABBATH would now play just one date each in North America and the U.K.

Ozzy, Iommi and bassist Geezer Butler recently spent time in London recording their first album together in 33 years, although without drummer Bill Ward it is not the original SABBATH reunion announced last November.

Ward has been sitting out the sessions due to being offered what he called "an unsignable contract" in an open letter to SABBATH fans.

The rest of SABBATH's scheduled European summer gigs will be replaced by "Ozzy And Friends", at which the singer will be joined by Butler, former Ozzy guitarist Zakk Wylde and other special guests, including Slash on selected dates.

lord lucan

RIP Sabbath.

Tragic that the Sabbath legacy is being tainted by all this crap.:(

ozzy jr

The offer we received on May 9 was, 'Come to the U.K., play for free and see how the first show goes.

Who the **** came up with that offer, and who the **** gave the ok to go to Bill with it. Unbelievable.

scudzilla

ozzy jr wrote: »

Who the **** came up with that offer, and who the **** gave the ok to go to Bill with it. Unbelievable.

$harron and Ozzy.

A pair of cnuts

Furious-Red

Black Sabbath

We have decided not to make any detailed comment on Bill's latest statement. There are two sides to every story. We have been working hard at rehearsals making excellent progress after Tony's treatments and we have engaged a substitute drummer for the forthcoming shows. See you at Download.

Doctor Jimbob

ozzy jr wrote: »

Who the **** came up with that offer, and who the **** gave the ok to go to Bill with it. Unbelievable.

To be honest, as much as I'd like to see a full reunion myself, I'm starting to wonder if maybe there's doubts about bill being able to perform full gigs. Between this and the fact he was asked to play only three songs at download it's starting to look like a real possibility.

Think about it, the contract issue can't be a money thing, every statement bill releases mentions his willingness to participate in future Sabbath activity.

dcr22B

Simple solution is have a drummer on standby for Bill and if he's not up to it, he'll know it himself and bow out gracefully. He's an honest down to earth guy, if he can't hack he'd walk away with dignity.

Hyperbullet

I see that Sabbath have cropped Bill Ward out of every photo on their website. Sharon Osbourne you are a class act.

Furious-Red

Yea so much respect lost for BS

Y’know when Ozzy Osbourne, Tony Iommi, and Geezer Butler released that terse little statement yesterday, saying they weren’t going to respond at length to Bill Ward’s prior essay on the ins and outs of why he wasn’t going to be part of this year’s Black Sabbath reunion? Well, it turns out they’ve responded to it in a different way.

And it’s one of the pettiest, most childish – and admittedly, inventive – ways imaginable.

Go on over to the official Black Sabbath website. Wait until the home page loads. What can you see? Can you see it? Here’s a screengrab, in case you’re too lazy to check it properly:



As we’re sure the eagle-eyed among you will have already noticed, Black Sabbath have gone in for a little image-pruning on their official website. They’ve gone and removed Bill Ward from every single photo in the background of their website.

They haven’t erased their founding drummer from the website entirely – we suspect it was seen as a step too far to excise him from the band’s history page altogether, for example, but as far as dick-moves go, scrubbing him out from the photo collages they have on their website is a pretty low blow for three grown men to throw.

RayCon

^ wow ... that's utterly dispicable. Shame on Iommi and Butler for allowing themselves to be bossed by the retarded Osbournes.

Nodferatu

what a way to **** up a legacy. goes to show the childish immaturity bill is dealing with.

ozzy jr

Statement from Geezer,

I feel sad to see the Sabbath reunion becoming a bit of a soap opera on the internet. It has been a very tough year for us as a band, having announced our reunion plans, only for Tony to be diagnosed with lymphoma, leaving us no choice but to postpone the proposed Sabbath tour, and then for Bill to go public on his site about an un-signable contract. None of us knew how Tony was going to respond to his intensive chemo therapy, and radiotherapy. Ozzy and myself flew to England to be with Tony, and on his “good” days, we’d meet at his home studio and put ideas together for the upcoming album, all sitting down together, no drummer involved, just 3 of us quietly putting together ideas. We thought that when we had enough songs together for a full band rehearsal, we’d move back to L.A and put the whole thing together with Bill. Unfortunately, to our surprise, Bill issued a statement on his site saying he’d been offered an un-signable contract. He hadn’t told any one of us he was having contractual problems, and frankly those things are worked out between our representatives, and never between the four of us let alone in public. We had the idea of keeping just one show in this year, hoping that Tony would be well enough for that show, and that things with Bill would be sorted. As you may expect, a one off show at Donnington Festival (Download) costs an absolute fortune to stage, involving over 50 people, transport, air fares, hotels, meals, agents, promotors, accountants, lawyers etc, so none of us, expected to make much money from it- it was a one off Sabbath show for the fans, before we go into recording the new album. Apparently, this wasn’t acceptable to Bill’s representatives, they wanted an amount that was so unrealistic that it seemed to have been a joke. So we resigned ourselves to doing Download without Bill, hoping he’d change his mind and at least make a guest appearance. We started rehearsals a few weeks ago with Tommy Cluefetos, the drummer who will be on the Ozzy and Friends Tour. Brilliant drummer and good bloke. It was decided we’d better do a warm up show, to break the ice since we haven’t played together live. The O2 Academy was available in Birmingham, where we were rehearsing, so we decided on that, and to make a donation to Help For Heroes Charity, since we’d be ironing out any glitches we may have. Then Bill put out a further statement saying he’d been ready to play the Birmingham show , but he was expected to have to do it “for free”- well, I think that’s basically how you raise money from gigs for charity – you play them “for free”.
All I am saying is that there are two sides to everything. I do hope to play with Bill again some day. For whatever reason; it wasn’t meant to be this time. Bill’s made his decision, and I have to respect that. Hopefully this painful year will be worth the wait for the new Sabbath album and end in joy and happiness for all.
Stay frosty,
Geezer

Itssoeasy

http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/news/black-sabbath-wipe-bill-ward-from-photo-history/

Apparently Bill asked to be removed from pictures on the official site.

grimm2005

On a slightly more positive note, the reviews for last nights show appear to be quite positive: http://www.sundaymercury.net/news/midlands-news/2012/05/20/review-black-sabbath-make-a-triumphant-return-to-birmingham-66331-31008580/

Furious-Red

We like a massive feud as much as the next person – after all, ridiculous band-drama is our bread and butter here at Thrash Hits – but this ongoing Bill Ward/Black Sabbath situation is really starting to get ridiculous. As soon as we’ve posted one missive from a band member on the situation, another one pops up. And being the (ir)responsible website that we are, we have to keep posting them.

Firstly, it’s turned out that the removal of Bill Ward from Black Sabbath’s website was a result of Bill Ward requesting they be taken down, on the excuse that he didn’t want to mislead fans about his presence in the reunion. O-kay, kinda weird, but understandable. Then last night, Bill Ward issued this latest statement via his official Facebook page as a response to Geezer Butler’s blog post on the Sabbath drummer situation. Jeez:

Dear Sabbath Fans and Musicians,

I have read Geezer’s statement of May 19, 2012 titled “Heavy Heart.” Out of respect for the Birmingham gig, I wanted to wait 24 hours before releasing this statement. There are some points he brought up which I want to respond to.

1) I had indeed notified Ozzy, Tony and Geezer, well before my first public statement, that I was having contractual difficulties.

2) I came out into a public forum to be accountable to the fans primarily, and to say at a public level there’s a problem. The band members stopped talking and corresponding with me some time ago, with the exception of a nice letter from Tony on my birthday. Prior to that, Geezer and I were corresponding, but that stopped abruptly in late February after I emailed a specific question to him.

3) In my statement of May 15, I clearly stated I would play Birmingham for free. That was not a problem – charity or otherwise.

4) My Download fee was not an extravagant amount. Originally, when Download was part of a full tour, I had asked for a decent fee. More recently, as we were negotiating just Download/Birmingham and Lollapalooza, I told my attorney that I would accept the proposed small Download fee, but there were other parts of the offer that were unsatisfactory.

I will continue to be honest and respectful towards the band and our fans. I will also confront any untruths about me, and any fault finding missions aimed at me that come to my attention.

I hope the band and the fans had a good gig in Brum.

Stay safe/stay strong.
Bill Ward

Seriously guys, we get it – you’re all old, you’re all entrenched in your positions, it’s all about the money, and none of you want to be “the bad guy”. But guess what? You all are. Please either a) get your **** together, or b) shut the **** up about this giant, contractual cluster****. At the very least, we’re running out of ways to frame your ever-increasingly rambling press releases.

Nodferatu

Legendary heavy metal band BLACK SABBATH has set "13" as the title of its much-anticipated new album. The group's first LP with Ozzy Osbourne since 1978 will be released in June via Vertigo/Universal Republic in the U.S. and Vertigo in all other territories. The drum tracks on the CD were laid down by RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE sticksman Brad Wilk following original drummer Bill Ward's decision to bow out of the reunion.

Osbourne, Tony Iommi (guitar) and Geezer Butler (bass) recorded the album primarily in Los Angeles with producer Rick Rubin.

In advance of the CD's release, BLACK SABBATH will head to New Zealand, Australia and Japan for live performances. Additional tour plans will be revealed in the coming months.

Iommi, Osbourne and Butler discussed their new album in a video interview posted at NME.com. Asked how Rubin influenced the band's approach to writing together again, Butler explained, "He sat us down, put the first album on and said 'listen to this', imagine it's 1969, you've just done that, what would you do next?"

Iommi added, "It's taken on the flavor of the old stuff in the way we put things together, but with a different look on it."

Back in August, Butler said SABBATH had recorded 15 tracks, with 12 making the final cut, including a song entitled "God Is Dead".

Ward in May 2012 announced again that he was declining to join his former bandmates for its scheduled 2012 dates, as well as the recording of a new album, due to a contractual dispute.

He also allegedly had his lawyers direct SABBATH to remove him from photos of the band posted at the official BLACK SABBATH web site "so as to not give the public the wrong impression about his involvement in the current BLACK SABBATH lineup," according to a statement issued by the band's publicist.

Butler issued a lengthy retort at his own web site, writing that Ward "hadn't told any one of us he was having contractual problems, and frankly those things are worked out between our representatives, and never between the four of us, let alone in public."

Until now, Iommi told The Pulse Of Radio a while back that the members of SABBATH stayed friendly even when there were legal or other issues going on. "We've always been talking. We've always been in touch with each other," he said. "There might be a lawsuit in the thing between us, but we still talk to each other like nothing's happened, you know."

Asked if there is any chance of Ward rejoining the band, Iommi said last October, "We'll always have a heart for Bill, but I think it's gone past that now, because it's gone on so long that I don't see that happening at the moment. Maybe at some point we might [play together again]."

Iommi, Osbourne and Butler performed live together for the first time in seven years on May 19, 2012, playing an intimate show at the 3,800-person O2 Academy in SABBATH's hometown of Birmingham, England. The concert, which served as a warm-up for the group's appearance at the following month's Download festival, was laced with emotion and drama: it was the first live appearance for Iommi since being diagnosed with cancer, and it was the first with stand-in drummer Tommy Clufetos, making the split official between Ward and the rest of SABBATH.

BLACK SABBATH took part in a photo shoot on November 30, 2012 with famed British photographer/artist Sam Taylor-Wood.

Catari Jaguar

Nodferatu wrote: »

The drum tracks on the CD were laid down by RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE sticksman Brad Wilk

Unless he can jazz drum then I will be severely disappointed. Bill Ward is my drumming idol. Was raging that he didn't play at the Donington show. Not the same without him. Double foot pedals does not make an acceptable substitute for a drum roll

GhostInTheRuins

Catari Jaguar wrote: »

Unless he can jazz drum then I will be severely disappointed. Bill Ward is my drumming idol. Was raging that he didn't play at the Donington show. Not the same without him. Double foot pedals does not make an acceptable substitute for a drum roll

I would be fairly interested in this new album if Bill Ward was on it, but that's his own doing really. He didn't come off well with his contract/looking for more money crap. I wonder was Vinny Appice asked, at least he has some genuine sabbath credentials.

We know that Geezer and Iommi can still pump out the tunes, Heaven and Hell was a decent enough cd. But Ozzy's been a complete joke for years (decades?) with his terribly over-processed/layered/autotuned wails.

Ozzy and no Ward cancel out any positives for me I'm afraid.

Doctor Jimbob

GhostInTheRuins wrote: »

I would be fairly interested in this new album if Bill Ward was on it, but that's his own doing really. He didn't come off well with his contract/looking for more money crap. I wonder was Vinny Appice asked, at least he has some genuine sabbath credentials.

We know that Geezer and Iommi can still pump out the tunes, Heaven and Hell was a decent enough cd. But Ozzy's been a complete joke for years (decades?) with his terribly over-processed/layered/autotuned wails.

Ozzy and no Ward cancel out any positives for me I'm afraid.

No Ward is a pretty big blow all right, but who could they have instead of Ozzy?

GhostInTheRuins

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

No Ward is a pretty big blow all right, but who could they have instead of Ozzy?

Nobody really. I suppose I just wish they'd leave the past where it is.

BlaasForRafa

GhostInTheRuins wrote: »

I would be fairly interested in this new album if Bill Ward was on it, but that's his own doing really. He didn't come off well with his contract/looking for more money crap. .

I think Bill Ward has been thrown under the bus by Ozzy (primarily and his scumbag shrew of a wife), Geezer and Tony.

During the original Black Sabbath formation until Ozzy left in 78/79 the money was shared equally amongst the band, if you look at the albums from that era the songs are all credited to osbourne/iommi/butler/ward.

Everyone knows by now that Iommi wrote most of the riffs and Butler most of the lyrics with Ozzy and Ward just putting in little bits here and there but at the time they were operating on the principle that they were a group and each person had a crucial contribution to the group. I'm betting that the new contracts drawn up by Sharon reduced Bill's percentage and he wasn't going to take that. And why should he, he's an original member of the band, why shouldn't he be a part of the band on the same terms as he originally was, just like Ozzy.

Now that they have this new flunkie in, he'll get a flat fee and the other 3 will share the royalties between then, 33% each rather than 25% each.

BlaasForRafa

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

No Ward is a pretty big blow all right, but who could they have instead of Ozzy?

Steve Hennessy of sHeavy does a better Ozzy impersonation than Ozzy does these days...

Anyway more than likely I'll be buying the new Pagan Altar album out this year rather than an Ozzy sung black sabbath one, the pity being that the PA album will probably be streets better but inevitably sell far less.

scudzilla

Old Sabbath are relevant

New Sabbath are about as relevant as one of my farts

rednik

Well they are coming

Mental Mickey

scudzilla wrote: »

Old Sabbath are relevant

New Sabbath are about as relevant as one of my farts

PMSL. The whole thing is one big embarrassment.

blastman

Eeek!!

Welsh Megaman

£61 for a Manchester standing ticket!!! :eek::eek::eek::mad::mad:

Sorry Mrs. O...I'll pass!

scudzilla

61stg is just fcukin ridiculous, this tour has $harron O$bourne written all over it.

Thats why i reckon they didn't add a Dublin date, would have cost a lot extra in Insurances etc and would have ate into the greedy bitches profits

Welsh Megaman

scudzilla wrote: »

61stg is just fcukin ridiculous, this tour has $harron O$bourne written all over it.

Thats why i reckon they didn't add a Dublin date, would have cost a lot extra in Insurances etc and would have ate into the greedy bitches profits

Don't be surprised if '13' costs just that lil' bit more on iTunes.