Blood Testing in Irish MMA

BigMan29

Blood tests? Why don't you guys think of the fighter's safety for once and ask for a mandatory medical??lol I have seen a few guys who were not allowed to compete in amateur boxing for medical reasons but instead turned to mma and nothing was said. If one of these guys were to be injured the future of Irish mma for the rest of us would be bleak. If you ask me if we are going to take things one step at a time, why not have a proper medical done and signed by a gp instead of a quick 5 minute pit stop before you're about to fight. Blood tests? what the hell for lol if it is to catch idiots out on ped's why not just a urine test on the day of/after the fight.

Mellor

BigMan29 wrote: »

Blood tests? what the hell for lol if it is to catch idiots out on ped's why not just a urine test on the day of/after the fight.

did you read any of the thread apart from he title?

BigMan29

Mellor wrote: »

did you read any of the thread apart from he title?

I'm quite slow lol however I believe if this is for fighter well being then why would it not be introduced to C class fighters etc, ive seen my fair share of blood filled C class fights

John Ferguson

BigMan29 wrote: »

Blood tests? Why don't you guys think of the fighter's safety for once and ask for a mandatory medical??lol I have seen a few guys who were not allowed to compete in amateur boxing for medical reasons but instead turned to mma and nothing was said. If one of these guys were to be injured the future of Irish mma for the rest of us would be bleak. If you ask me if we are going to take things one step at a time, why not have a proper medical done and signed by a gp instead of a quick 5 minute pit stop before you're about to fight. Blood tests? what the hell for lol if it is to catch idiots out on ped's why not just a urine test on the day of/after the fight.

From what I am told, a full yearly medical inc bloods is about €120. If as promoters we all agree the 20 quid fee then there is no reason why we can not all work together on this?

BigMan29

John Ferguson wrote: »

From what I am told, a full yearly medical inc bloods is about €120. If as promoters we all agree the 20 quid fee then there is no reason why we can not all work together on this?

Makes complete sense! There should be something written up on this to which all promoters in Ireland 'Unified' agree on i.e. how long before a fight should fighters be tested? how often? for which illnesses/infections/foreign bodies?

This would mean Ireland would be the first country in Europe to agree to this? Awesome

I think what most people are getting mixed up with is, is it a blood cheaters...i mean blood doping test or general blood work hiv etc

paulmclaughlin

BigMan29 wrote: »

I think what most people are getting mixed up with is, is it a blood cheaters...i mean blood doping test or general blood work hiv etc

The only persons getting mixed up are the ones who did not read before they posted, i.e. you.

Clive

Mellor wrote: »

Eh?
That's exactly what he said, he was looking for any tohers that are worh checking for.

There aren't. HIV, Hep B and C are the tests needed.

Mouthalmighty

I've been harping on about this for years. Hopefully not sounding like a tool here but its really about time. Guys could be walking around with these BBD without actually knowing it. Coulda been picked up through any means not just fighting. A very welcome development.

cowzerp

BigMan29 wrote: »

Blood tests? Why don't you guys think of the fighter's safety for once and ask for a mandatory medical??lol I have seen a few guys who were not allowed to compete in amateur boxing for medical reasons but instead turned to mma and nothing was said. If one of these guys were to be injured the future of Irish mma for the rest of us would be bleak. If you ask me if we are going to take things one step at a time, why not have a proper medical done and signed by a gp instead of a quick 5 minute pit stop before you're about to fight. Blood tests? what the hell for lol if it is to catch idiots out on ped's why not just a urine test on the day of/after the fight.

The medical for Boxing takes about 5 minutes and is forever unless you become incative and then comeback, then you just do it again-the main thing is you have no medical issues, this is discussed with Medic/Doctors at the events and then the main thing is Blood Pressure, better to be cleared healthy to fight on the day than 10 years ago when you done your Boxing Medical.

What i propose is that all pro fighters get the blood test's and the next show they are to compete on covers the cost-this will balance itself out as fighters will end up fighting on your show sometimes without needing to be covered, a test covering a person for a year is plenty-and that is the same as it is done in Pro Boxing, the likes of CC CW etc will obviously try get the same lads on 2-4 times that year anyway so it will be money well spent.

Kieran81

Sid_Justice wrote: »

If you are bitten by a person who is HIV positive, some research has estimated you have 0.004 percent chance of being infected.
s being equal").
)

if you're bitten by someone who has been tested and doesnt have HIV you have 0.000% chance of getting it . i like those odds better

mikey1

Sid_Justice wrote: »

If you are bitten by a person who is HIV positive, some research has estimated you have 0.004 percent chance of being infected.
If you have receptive anal intercourse with a person who is HIV positive you have 1 chance in 50 you will become infected.

Including male prostitutes and heroin addicts there are very few people in Ireland with HIV. There were 331 new cases of HIV were diagnosed in Ireland in 2010, according to the Dublin Aids Alliance website (don't know where they get their figures from).

The purpose of this post is to put into context the rather minuscule chance there is of a HIV positive MMA fighter fighting and the extremely low risk of viral transmission. Even if there is biting, they share a needle and have anal sex with each other, it's still about a 2% risk on a once off episode ("all things being equal").

By all means test for HIV if you're drawing a blood sample and testing for HEP B and C etc. but don't draw up regulations for one in a million stuff. You're more likely to get stabbed by a scumbag with a broken bottle of budweiser outside a MMA event AND crashing the ambulance on the way to hospital then get HIV from a mma fight (imo)

Hey Sid

I must get myself more up to speed on this HIV contraction topic, but please correct me if im wrong here - but lets say one fighter takes a hit and has a small cut and the fight is allowed to resume. The other fighter is also bleeding couldnt it be contracted through an open wound? Please correct me if Im wrong here - The scene may be 1 in what ever odds of happening but isn't it what we are trying to achieve - Minimize the chances?

Mick

John Ferguson

cowzerp wrote: »

What i propose is that all pro fighters get the blood test's and the next show they are to compete on covers the cost-this will balance itself out as fighters will end up fighting on your show sometimes without needing to be covered

It is much more clean cut for each promoter to pay the fighter a fee of 20 quid each time they use that fighter on a card. Why complicate it?

cowzerp

John Ferguson wrote: »

It is much more clean cut for each promoter to pay the fighter a fee of 20 quid each time they use that fighter on a card. Why complicate it?

Because im pretty sure the fighter who fight 1 time a year will not be happy with that, i think fighters opinions should be sought out here for what they think should happen-it's less complicated if the promoter going to use the fighter pays for the medical, bonus been they can use them for a year without paying that again, sure all ya have to do is pay them 20 quid less and then pay them 20 quid for the bloods and you have payed zero.

John Ferguson

Support so far.

Promoters

Cage Contender

Man of War

Chaos FC

Battlezone

Spartan

Under Siege/ TFBC

Rumble in Rush


Clubs

SBG Ireland

The Boxing Clinic

Kyuzo Gym

Team Ryano

Evolve

Red Dragon/Antrim MMA

Legends MMA

MMA Lucan

Rush Fight Academy


Officials (who from 2012 will only ref pro fights with blood certs)

Dave Jones

Peter Lavery

Dec Larkin

John Ferguson

cowzerp wrote: »

Because im pretty sure the fighter who fight 1 time a year will not be happy with that.

I'm pretty sure they would be happier than if the promoter didn't contribute at all, which seems to be the case everywhere else.

cowzerp

John Ferguson wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they would be happier than if the promoter didn't contribute at all, which seems to be the case everywhere else.

That's true

Performance Martial Arts

John Ferguson wrote: »

Support so far.

Promoters

Cage Contender

Man of War

Chaos FC

Battlezone

Spartan

Under Siege/ TFBC

Rumble in Rush


Clubs

SBG Ireland

The Boxing Clinic

Kyuzo Gym

Team Ryano

Evolve

Red Dragon/Antrim MMA

Legends MMA

MMA Lucan

Rush Fight Academy


Officials (who from 2012 will only ref pro fights with blood certs)

Dave Jones

Peter Lavery

Dec Larkin

I dont have any pro level guys at my club yet apart from myself but i am in support of this idea folks.

Mick Burke

ollieo

I brought this issue up before and got nowhere, then Cage Warriors brings it in and the same day most of the people that matter (in Irish MMA) start to try to bring together an agreement on blood testing.

I'm very happy with this development it's just a pity Irish MMA always follows the trend instead of setting the trend.

Anyways it's great for fighters and brings the Irish MMA scene up to a more professional level.

Clive

ollieo wrote: »

I'm very happy with this development it's just a pity Irish MMA always follows the trend instead of setting the trend.

Yeah, all those other countries had standardised rules and self-imposed regulation of bloodwork years ago...

BigMan29

Clive wrote: »

Yeah, all those other countries had standardised rules and self-imposed regulation of bloodwork years ago...

Lol

ollieo

Clive wrote: »

Yeah, all those other countries had standardised rules and self-imposed regulation of bloodwork years ago...

I never said they had self-regulation of bloodworks years ago, what I meant is that this subject was discussed before and no-one of importance in the Irish MMA scene even commented on it.

Now CW bring it in and promoters and coaches are jumping all over it (rightly so), my point is Irish MMA could have set the trend of self-regulated blood testing instead of following the trend set by CW.

Tim_Murphy

John Ferguson wrote: »

Support so far.

Promoters

Cage Contender

Man of War

Chaos FC

Battlezone

Spartan

Under Siege/ TFBC

Rumble in Rush


Clubs

SBG Ireland

The Boxing Clinic

Kyuzo Gym

Team Ryano

Evolve

Red Dragon/Antrim MMA

Legends MMA

MMA Lucan

Rush Fight Academy


Officials (who from 2012 will only ref pro fights with blood certs)

Dave Jones

Peter Lavery

Dec Larkin

Hi John,

You can add Point Blank to that as well, I'm more than happy to go along with this.

Mark actually brought this in already for the last Tribal Warfare so if TW does get brought back to life we will continue with the same policy.

John Ferguson

ollieo wrote: »

I never said they had self-regulation of bloodworks years ago, what I meant is that this subject was discussed before and no-one of importance in the Irish MMA scene even commented on it.

Now CW bring it in and promoters and coaches are jumping all over it (rightly so), my point is Irish MMA could have set the trend of self-regulated blood testing instead of following the trend set by CW.

Like alot of things I think it is about timing. The bloods subject has been being discussed in private for a while now, at CC we have been looking at it since DoD introduced it at UCMMA with plans to run with it from season 3. When CW made the subject so public again the timing seemed right so I took the chance to try and get the whole country to agree something, which seems to be happening.

Although I am shocked that still so many promoters have not replied to even the first text or this thread. Everyone harps on about fighter safety when they need fighters for cards, now it's time to man up and prove it!

Clive

ollieo wrote: »

I never said they had self-regulation of bloodworks years ago, what I meant is that this subject was discussed before and no-one of importance in the Irish MMA scene even commented on it.

Now CW bring it in and promoters and coaches are jumping all over it (rightly so), my point is Irish MMA could have set the trend of self-regulated blood testing instead of following the trend set by CW.

Boards.ie is a relatively small part of the Irish MMA community, blood tests have been talked about for years. As Tim said, Tribal Warfare brought them in without fuss or fanfare. Now Cagewarriors have brought them in. Cage Contender are doing the same and have proposed to share the cost with fighters. Two big shows have generated some momentum and now more and more people are getting on board.

If this comes in, Ireland will have established a self regulating, voluntary system of blood checks, covering all promotions and gyms. That's very different to a single promotion bringing in their own rules. No other country that I know of has something similar.

It takes time for ideas to reach a tipping point, and some shows are still miles ahead, but as a country and as a community we are leading the way.

Tim_Murphy

Clive wrote: »

As Tim said, Tribal Warfare brought them in without fuss or fanfare.

Exactly, it's really not that big a deal to do. Plus, I got the peace of mind of knowing that I was HIV negative! :cool:

IFS.NI

Glad this has come about and yes we are very happy to get onboard regarding the IFS team and Clan Wars.

ollieo

John Ferguson wrote: »

Like alot of things I think it is about timing. The bloods subject has been being discussed in private for a while now, at CC we have been looking at it since DoD introduced it at UCMMA with plans to run with it from season 3. When CW made the subject so public again the timing seemed right so I took the chance to try and get the whole country to agree something, which seems to be happening.

Although I am shocked that still so many promoters have not replied to even the first text or this thread. Everyone harps on about fighter safety when they need fighters for cards, now it's time to man up and prove it!

All the best with it hopefully the other promoters will agree to it.

John Ferguson

Promoters

Cage Contender

Man of War

Chaos FC

Battlezone

Spartan

Under Siege/ TFBC

Rumble in Rush

Tribal Warfare

Clan Wars




Clubs

SBG Ireland

The Boxing Clinic

Kyuzo Gym

Team Ryano

Evolve

Red Dragon/Antrim MMA

Legends MMA

MMA Lucan

Rush Fight Academy

Performance Martial Arts

Point Blank Submissions

IFS




Officials (who from 2012 will only ref pro fights with blood certs)

Dave Jones

Peter Lavery

Dec Larkin
__________________

MMAIRELANDFAN

Fair play to Cage Warriors for leading the way in Irish MMA

MMA in Ireland is in safe hands

John Ferguson

Kokoro MMA now also onboard

John Ferguson

Updated List


Promoters

Cage Contender

Man of War

Chaos FC

Battlezone

Spartan

Under Siege/ TFBC

Rumble in Rush

Tribal Warfare

Clan Wars

Immortal Fighting Championships

Celtic Gladiator


Clubs

SBG Ireland

The Boxing Clinic

Kyuzo Gym

Team Ryano

Evolve

Red Dragon/Antrim MMA

Legends MMA

MMA Lucan

Rush Fight Academy

Kyoujin MMA

Performance Martial Arts

Point Blank Submissions

IFS

Kokoro MMA

Strabane Fight Team

DCMMA

Spirit MMA

ICTA MMA

Tai Jutsu MMA

Next Generation NI (IMMA)

The Fitness Factory

Tuatha De Danann

Officials (who from 2012 will only ref pro fights with blood certs)

Dave Jones

Peter Lavery

Dec Larkin

John Ferguson

Like last years introduction of the new rule set this seems to be agreed by the majority and most probably the others will follow soon. The easiest way for fighters to get their cert is to simply go to their own doctor and ask for a blood test. They will be given the results with their name etc on them which is what they need.

I suggest we run this for 2012 and then introduce it for semi pro in 2013 when we are all used to the system. The first CC of 2012 is on 25 Feb, we will post any issues we come accross on here so that we can all learn from them and if other promotions and clubs could do the same it might help all round!

Snakehips

Keep it simple. Go to your Dr/GP, GUM clinic or even some family planning centers and ask for a blood test to cover HIV, HEP A-B-C&D.

So a fighter has his cert, so now you need to put a time limit on it ie. is it valid for 1/2/3 months??,(covers the fighter on any show for 1/2/3 mths) or and i think its the only way to go with this matter, and you want to bring the sport in line with most other countries, ie. Sweden, Finland, Denmark, you provide a test each time you fight!

PROS- you know each opponent you face is clear of HIV etc
- it gives the sport in Ireland a step in the direction to being accepted as a true sport and not a bunch of half wit thugs!!
- it shows that here in Ireland we can be pro-active by taking the lead and not just reactive to what happens first in America, then the UK before we act. (i know on this matter we are being reactive)
-your GP will not charge for the test and you get your results in 7 days or less.

CONS- by going to your GP and asking for such tests, it will go down on your health record and if you decide at some point you want/need life insurance for a mortgage etc it can cause problems because they will now consider you at a higher risk (ask your GP to put a side note as to why you are asking for the tests)
-the GUM clinic will not keep records, but not many people i know enjoy hanging around a GUM clinic (well apart form weemate)lol:P

So as a fighter you now have your cert, you turn up at the event and as part of your medical the Dr checks and verifies your cert, simple really!!

As a back up measure and to counter the fact that fighters being fighters forget stuff on fight day, the coach of the fighters will have already Faxed/emailed a copy of the cert to the promotor beforehand, (day,week b4) but this is only a back up and the fighter must bring the original copy on the day because we all know paperwork can be doctored!!

I speak from my own experience, and having mentioned this before to many promotors, Sweden has the best blueprint for this sort of thing and for the formation of the dreaded governing body.

Stay Frosty folks :cool:

Raze_them_all

Max 3 months between tests/ new test after fight would make the most sense imo.

One thing though down south our gp's do charge as we don't have free health care, prices can vary something shocking depending on location, as I've said before for me it was only 20e a go yet in dub you'd be looking at minimum 50e

Mouthalmighty

Not a fighter but using my logic I'd be happy to fork out 50euro (last time i went to doc for a full NCT 2months ago) to get an all clear & also to know my opponent was all clear. As far as i can tell a lot of pro irish fighters are sponsored by company x or y maybe the small cost (in the grand scheme of things)of a blood test could be covered partially by them also.

The possibility of BBDs is an occupational hazard and I know if I was a fighter I'd be all for this even if It cost me money

Great to see Irish MMA moving forward tho

shanesmith

Medical card would surely cover it down here anyway?

Sid_Justice

No they wouldn't.

http://blackrockmedicalcentre.ie/policies.php

Items not covered by the Medical Card include:
Driving Licence Medical and Driving Licence Eye Tests
Smear Tests (unless you have a letter from CervicalCheck)
Travel Vaccinations
Medical examinations and reports for legal purposes
Medical examination and reports for insurance companies
Medical examinations in connection with fitness to take part in sports
Pre employment medicals
Pre school examinations
Letters or referrals other than those related to Consultants/Hospitals
Letters to Social Welfare, Council or similar
Completion of miscellaneous forms

Barry.Oglesby

I would be fairly ratted off if my tax money was contributing towards an elective medical procedure that someone was taking so they could get paid to fight.

empacher

Why dont clubs contact gps, and say out entire club gets its bloods done i your clinic and you do us a deal of 20€ a person. Gp could while losing profit margin gain new customers, when said fighters are sick, have a family etc

Sid_Justice

i think people are going off on unnecessary tangents. people can get tested via their GP or via STI/FPC/GUM clinic. If your fight contract says you need a test you need to get a test, if it doesn't, you don't. I don't think there is a need for further screening.

Kieran81

got my blood taken for the tests today and couldnt believe what i was listenin to , the doc strongly advised me not to have these tests unless its absolutely unavoidable and said the consequences of saying you have it in black and white that you have been tested for all these diseases are life altering , such as problems getting a mortgage , health insurance and others which i cant remember and she also said many many problems arise from the fact that you have been tested for these and NOT that the results are positive or not i have to say i was astonished by this , i thought i (and every other fighter likewise) was showin admirable responsibility in going down the blood testin route and was wonderin if any others have been given the same responce by the doc?

Barry.Oglesby

Kieran81 wrote: »

got my blood taken for the tests today and couldnt believe what i was listenin to , the doc strongly advised me not to have these tests unless its absolutely unavoidable and said the consequences of saying you have it in black and white that you have been tested for all these diseases are life altering , such as problems getting a mortgage , health insurance and others which i cant remember and she also said many many problems arise from the fact that you have been tested for these and NOT that the results are positive or not i have to say i was astonished by this , i thought i (and every other fighter likewise) was showin admirable responsibility in going down the blood testin route and was wonderin if any others have been given the same responce by the doc?

This is what I cautioned against previously.

If you get tested for HIV/Hep, to an insurance company, that is tantamount to saying you live a risky life. You must have life assurance for a bank to mortgage a home for you, certain companies will require access to your medical records before employing you and you may have to pay a large premium for medical insurance... assuming the company takes the risk on you which they may not want to do.

This is not simple, not by a long shot. I've run this gauntlet before it's not pretty.

Jason McCabe

This is not a good revelation

Is this worth the hassle for the fighters?

The chance of a disease is low. What is the likelihood of a bank checking??

Jimmy Bottlehead

It's ludicrous that fighters, or even Joe Bloggs off the street, gets penalised for being responsible enough to get a blood test done.
My girlfriend is a nurse, and thus there's a much higher than normal chance of her getting pricked by a needle in work - she's now wondering will she be penalised should she ever need to get this done.

Would there be any way to get an "off-the-record" test done in a GUM clinic? It might be an option for fighters if there was some way to make sure it was the fighter themselves.

John Ferguson

Jason McCabe wrote: »

Is this worth the hassle for the fighters?

If they want a fight at pro rules then the answer has to be yes.

Almost every promotion has agreed on no test no fight, as well as more or less every referee and a majority of coaches.

Jason McCabe

John I do know this

I just did not realise such consequences for what seemed a simple matter.

cowzerp

Jason McCabe wrote: »

The chance of a disease is low. What is the likelihood of a bank checking??

Low is probably an over statement in reality, unless fighters fall in love in there and take things outside the ring!

dasmoose

Barry is absolutely correct about this, life insurance companies are not fair and do not care about whether you had good or bad reasons to have a test like this.

My mother is a nurse and had told me the exact same thing as kieran's doctor.

If as promoters you guys really feel the risks of bloodborne disease transmission are high enough to require these tests, fair enough, but I hope all fighters who take these tests are informed of the affect it could have on their lives.

John Ferguson

dasmoose wrote: »

If as promoters you guys really feel the risks of bloodborne disease transmission are high enough to require these tests, fair enough, but I hope all fighters who take these tests are informed of the affect it could have on their lives.

Before the decision was taken at Cage Contender in regards to blood testing we had discussions with both Zurich and Aviva in regards to what if any affect a test could have on the individual.

They both were of the opinion that unless a test came back positive there would be no issues. I have requested this in writing this morning and Zurich have agreed to get it to me this week. I will post it here when I have it.

John Ferguson

John Ferguson wrote: »

Before the decision was taken at Cage Contender in regards to blood testing we had discussions with both Zurich and Aviva in regards to what if any affect a test could have on the individual.

They both were of the opinion that unless a test came back positive there would be no issues. I have requested this in writing this morning and Zurich have agreed to get it to me this week. I will post it here when I have it.

I'd say that will alleviate a lot of concerns. Everyone should talk about this to their own provider too though.