Waste Water Treatment Plant

martinn123

Minister Howlin, agrees to have plan '' reviewed''

Not sure what this means, but with the upcoming Budget, perhaps there are no funds available for such a plan

http://myswords.ie/2011/11/24/government-minister-agrees-to-review-planned-sewage-plant/

Cardinal Richelieu

How come FCC needs a site of 20 hectares for the treatment works but one of the 9 selected is 114 hectares? Isn't that a bit excessive and a waste of taxpayers money? Or is there another development in the future if they select that site?


The Irish Times - Thursday, December 1, 2011

OPPOSITION IS mounting across north Co Dublin to plans for a new €500 million regional sewage plant to serve up to 700,000 people in Dublin city and county, as well as parts of Meath and Kildare.
Nine sites, all in Fingal, have been selected as potential locations for the plant, which would be second in size only to the Ringsend sewage works.
The closing date for public submissions on the proposed locations is tomorrow. Reclaim Fingal, an alliance of opposition groups from each of the targeted communities, said it intended to present about 10,000 submissions against the proposal to Fingal County Council.
Controversy over the location of a large municipal sewage plant in north Co Dublin has been brewing for six years. The need for a second regional plant for Dublin and its surrounding counties was identified in the Greater Dublin Strategic Drainage Study, commissioned by Fingal on behalf of the four Dublin local authorities and published in 2005.
The study identified Portrane, north Co Dublin, as the best location for the plant. Opposition to the selection of Portrane was rapidly organised and extremely vocal, with actor and local resident Stephen Rea among those backing the campaign.
In November 2005, Fingal councillors rejected the plan for Portrane and ordered a review of the study. The review, completed in 2007, found a single regional treatment plant was still required and that the selection of the northern greater Dublin area was correct.
The review did not rule Portrane in or out of contention, but recommended that a new process of site selection begin.
Jacobs Engineering and Tobin Consulting Engineers were chosen this year to assess potential sites. Following their assessment, Portrane was taken out of the mix.
The nine potential locations are in townlands stretching from just south of Skerries to just north of Darndale. While the townlands would be unknown to most people, they are closest to the towns of Rush, Lusk, Swords, Portmarnock, Malahide and the village of Loughshinny.
The decision to eliminate Portrane from consideration was not due to political or public pressure, project engineer with Fingal County Council Peter O’Reilly said.
“Portrane has been screened out. There have been a number of archaeological and environmental designations that have been introduced since 2005 that mean the site is no longer suitable.”
He said the nine potential locations would be narrowed down next spring or early summer.
Reclaim Fingal chairman Brian Hosford said the group was greatly encouraged by the success of the Portrane campaign.
“The campaign is really ramping up; we hope to submit around 10,000 [objections] to the county hall on Friday and we are very hopeful that the separate communities, by sticking together, can defend themselves against this monster sewage plant.”
The campaign was not an exercise in “nimbyism”, Mr Hosford added. “This is not a case of ‘not in my back yard’, its a case of ‘not in anyone’s back yard’.
“This is not the correct solution. The potential for environmental disaster with a plant this size is enormous. There should be a series of local plants instead of pumping sewage from everywhere around the M50 into Fingal.”
A series of smaller plants had been considered, Mr O’Reilly said, but one large regional plant was determined to have a lesser potential impact on the environment.
In addition to objections from community groups, a number of sports organisations, including fishing and gun clubs, are opposing the plant.
The Irish Farmers Association also plans to make a submission to the council tomorrow outlining its concerns about the scale of the facility and its proximity to horticultural land.
Sites shortlist: 20 hectares required for new sewage plant

A PLOT of 20 hectares is required for the development of the new regional plant, which will cater for the sewage of up to 700,000 people and will accommodate the overflow from the Ringsend sewage treatment works.
Nine potential locations have been selected in townlands in the Fingal local authority area. From north to south the sites under consideration are at:
* Tyrrelstown Little (114 ha), 2.8km northeast of Lusk and 3.6km northwest of Rush, close to Loughshinny;
* Rathartan (41 ha), 2km west of Rush and 3km to the east of Lusk;
* Newtowncorduff (43 ha) 2.2km west of Lusk.
Moving further inland are the less densely populated areas of:
* Annsbrook (62 ha), 2.5km northeast of Ballyboughal;
* Baldurgan (57ha), 1.6km southeast of Ballyboughal;
* Cookstown (80ha), 2.5km southeast of Ballyboughal.
Still in a rural setting but moving back towards a more populated area is:
* Saucerstown (36 ha) 3.3km northwest of Swords; and
* Cloghran (32 ha), 3.3km south of Swords.
The final land parcel is at
* Clonshaugh (40 ha), just outside of Dublin city, 1.3km north of Belcamp and Darndale.
Following assessment of the public submissions, a further narrowing of the options will take place next spring into early summer. There will then be another round of public consultation. The preferred site is due for selection by the end of next year.
A planning application is expected to be submitted to An Bord Pleanála in 2013. Construction is due to begin in 2017 and the plant should be operational by 2020.

The Hill Billy

In the instance of Tyrrellstown it may be that the available land for suitable development in area is 114 ha, but that only 20 ha will be required for the actual build. One would hope that they would only purchase the 20 ha required.

But at 114 ha - the Tyrrellstown site would be as big as (if not bigger than) Ardgillan Demesne.

Unshelved

Time is running out for those of you who want to object to the Greater Dublin Waste Water Treatment Plant - all submissions must be received by tomorrow, Friday 2nd December.

You can email info@greaterdublindrainage.ie or post your letter to -

Greater Dublin Drainage
RPS Group
West Pier Business Campus
Dun Laoghaire
Co. Dublin

If you're not sure what to say, have a look here - http://skerriesca.com/?q=node/526 or here - http://www.luskwastewatchers.com/#/how-to-object/4556919252

If you're in Skerries, you can sign the petition in Gerry's and Supervalu - where there are information stands today - and also at Greg Reddin's, Eurospar and C&T's Supermarket.

Please take the time to make your voice heard.

shanemasseyman

protest on monday at 3.30 in swords at the county council offices. try and make it, we need our voices heard!!

Cardinal Richelieu

shanemasseyman wrote: »

protest on monday at 3.30 in swords at the county council offices. try and make it, we need our voices heard!!

Fairplay to those that turned up in Swords today in really bitter conditions. Rush Needs You facebook page has a fair few images of the protest. One slight note of caution, if you look closely at certain photos the headline above the placards was "Sinn Fein" and also some protesters were holding up copies of the Socialist newspapers. So it seems the usually hijack a protest brigade turned up to make a political statement. Some day that crowd is going to make a serious mistake and join the back of a funeral with their placards.


I have to say a good few of my questions were answered at the monthly meeting today which I watched live. The need for one large treatment plant rather than a series of small works, technology involved etc You should be able to see at the below link in the next couple of days. Worth a watch if you want to be informed by more than a one liner on Facebook or Twitter or the fellow in the pub.

http://www.fingalcoco.public-i.tv/core/


The main serious note that came out for me at the meeting was not the Dublin Drainage Scheme but the number of Local Councillors that admitted signing this plant off under the Fingal Development plan that now object to it because they weren't aware of the consequences. It begs the question whatelse did they signoff that they weren't aware of?

FCC Minutes 23 March 2011

It was proposed by Councillor K. Farrell and seconded by Councillor P. Coyle and RESOLVED:

“It is hereby resolved that Fingal County Council of the County of Fingal being the Planning Authority for the County of Fingal exclusive of any Borough or Urban district within, having reviewed the Fingal Development Plan, 2005-2011, and having published a draft of a new development plan for the County entitled “Fingal Draft Development Plan 2011-2017 and having taken into account objections and representations received and having considered the report of the County Manager, regarding this 2011-2017 Draft Development Plan and having further published Proposed Amendments to the said 2011-2017 Draft Development Plan and having taken into account the further representations made and having considered the report of the County Manager, with respect to such Proposed Amendments hereby adopts for the purpose of making the Fingal Development Plan 2011-2017 the documents entitled “Fingal Development Plan 2011-2017 comprising sheets 1-16 and Written Statement decided by the Council at the special meetings held on the 22nd and 23rd March 2011 (which documents have been signed for identification purposes by Mr. Gilbert Power, Director of Services, Planning and in accordance with the provisions of the Planning & Development Acts 2000-2010 hereby make the Fingal Development Plan, 2011-2017 and it is further resolved that the Seal of the Council be affixed to the revised document entitled “Fingal Development Plan 2011-2017 comprising sheets 1 to 16 and Written Statement as amended by the Council at special meetings held on the 22nd and 23rd March 2011 and that the necessary notices for the making of the Plan, be published in accordance with the said Acts.”

The Motion was put and on a division the voting resulted as follows:

For: 21 (Twenty One)
Against: 3 (Three)

For: Councillors Butler, Byrne, Coyle, Dennison, Devitt, Farrell, Hamill, Kelleher, Lavin, Loftus, Maher, McGuinness, McGuire, McKeon, Murray, Nulty, O’Brien, O’Callaghan, O’Connor, O’Donovan, O’Leary.

Against: Councillors Coppinger E., Coppinger R., Waine.


The Mayor, Councillor K. Farrell declared the Motion PASSED:

So they reviewed considered, then reviewed and considered again but failed to spot that the Dublin Drainage Scheme might be in their Ward? You couldn't make this up. What's the point in getting them to sign off the Development plan if they haven't got a clue whats in it or how its objectives will effect Fingal? It just makes the document worthless and a waste of taxpayers money.

Carawaystick

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

So they reviewed considered, then reviewed and considered again but failed to spot that the Dublin Drainage Scheme might be in their Ward? You couldn't make this up. What's the point in getting them to sign off the Development plan if they haven't got a clue whats in it or how its objectives will effect Fingal? It just makes the document worthless and a waste of taxpayers money.

Could you point out where any of the 9 proposed locations are zoned for a sewage treatment plant in the development plan?
The Ringsend sewage plant is in an industrial zoned area. The largest Heavy industry zoned area is near Kilshane cross, where the Fingal Sludge management plan envisages a sludge treatment plant. It's hardly unreasonable to councillors to expect a heavy industry be sited in a heavy industry zoned site?
Rather than a rural zoned site?

Cardinal Richelieu

Carawaystick wrote: »

Could you point out where any of the 9 proposed locations are zoned for a sewage treatment plant in the development plan?
The Ringsend sewage plant is in an industrial zoned area. The largest Heavy industry zoned area is near Kilshane cross, where the Fingal Sludge management plan envisages a sludge treatment plant. It's hardly unreasonable to councillors to expect a heavy industry be sited in a heavy industry zoned site?
Rather than a rural zoned site?

I assume you read my previous posts were I voiced my preference on a brown field site. But your right the plan doesn't mention the 9 proposed locations but was it too much to ask that one or two coucillors would have asked for a brown field site to be in the design brief and ring fenced that in the Fingal Development Plan? Due Diligence or in simple terms "Cover your arse"

Dave623

Lusk has to stop this way too near the village

http://www.greaterdublindrainage.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Plans_021111_Aerial_Newtowncorduff.pdf

Unshelved

PROPOSED MONSTER SEWAGE PLANT GETS AIRING ON PAT KENNY SHOW, RADIO 1 (10.00-12.00am) THURSDAY 9 JANUARY



RTE Radio Journalist, Valerie Cox, will be reporting on the proposed monster sewage treatment plant to be located in North Fingal. She visited Skerries yesterday (Tuesday) and interviewed a number of local people about the proposed plant - PJ Jones, Chairman of the Irish Horticultural Association, Charlie Heasman, Jane Landy, Chairperson of SCA, Emily Diebold of Skerries Adopt a Beach and Berniann Condon of the Reclaim Fingal Alliance. In studio, the issue will be debated with Pat Kenny by resident David Cooke and a representative from Fingal County Council.

SeaSide

Looks like all views have been ignored

http://www.greaterdublindrainage.com/2012/04/16/gdd-asa-p1-consultation-rp/

Spidermany

Now we have to wait and see where the three locations are.

SeaSide

From Reclaim Fingal Facebook page

THE THREE UNLUCKY SITES NAMED:
Annsbrook, Approx 10km north of Dublin airport and approximately 2.7km west of Lusk with a marine outfall in the Northern Outfall Study Area, in the vicinity of Loughshinny
Newtowncorduff, Approx 10km north of Dublin airport and approximately 1.0km west of Lusk, with a marine outfall in the Northern Outfall Study Area, in the vicinity of Loughshinny
Clonshagh/ Clonshaugh, Approx 2.2km east of Dublin Airport, with a marine outfall in the Southern Outfall Area, to the north east of Ireland’s Eye.

Cardinal Richelieu

This topic seems to have died a death since the shortlist was announced. Even the thread in infrastructure has died down. The naming of the Clonshagh/Clonshaugh site among the shortlist seems to have caught the Reclaim Fingal protesters on the hop. Personally speaking I am pleasantly surprised that the Newtowncorduff is the one Lusk site picked when you consider who happens to be the landowner of 84 acres of the townland to the North East of the site. It shows that lobbying from powerful political figures didn't play apart in the selection of the shortlist. Would that have ever happened in the old days of Nod Nod Wink Wink?

Unshelved

Save our Shores have a stand in Skerries at the finale of the Rás on Sunday to inform people about the planned protest at Fingal Co Council, Swords, on 30th May. Three representatives from Save our Shores were on TV3 last week speaking about the proposed treatment plant and their opposition to it.

There are more details about the protest on the Skerries facebook page. I don't have access to facebook so can't provide a link.

SeaSide

I've been checking some of the numbers behind this proposal.

There are three treatment plants in North Dublin of relevance. Swords, Malahide and Donabate with the following capacities:
60,000PE, 20,000PE and 65,000PE (Figures from Fingal CoCo website) serving populations of 43,000, 14,000 and 28,200 (Donabate, Portrane, Rush, Lusk) according to 2011 census. Swords can be expanded to 90,000PE.

So even including Swords and Malahide in the catchment of the project seems to be a significant stretch (I would use unparliamentary language here).

This means that Fingal CoCo are looking to build a 25km pipeline going from the M2/M50 junction to Loughshinny instead of using the existing North Fringe Sewer which would require minimal additional construction. 25km in a straight line would take you from Dublin City to well beyond Ahsbourne. At a cost of €500 per metre (guestimate) that's an additional and unwarranted €12.5million to deliver this project onto out doorsteps.

Scubadevils

Went to the protest march today in Swords, I would have thought a lot more people would have attended, numbers quite disappointing really. Do people in the area not give a sht? Pardon the pun...

LeoB

Scubadevils wrote: »

Went to the protest march today in Swords, I would have thought a lot more people would have attended, numbers quite disappointing really. Do people in the area not give a sht? Pardon the pun...

I didnt see any advertising of this proteast around. I could not have gone anyway

Cardinal Richelieu

Scubadevils wrote: »

Went to the protest march today in Swords, I would have thought a lot more people would have attended, numbers quite disappointing really. Do people in the area not give a sht? Pardon the pun...

Just maybe most of the good citizens of Fingal don't have a problem with the scheme after they read about the scheme and now know the final shortlist.

Can anyone give me a rational argument how this plant will threaten Fingals Horticulture industry? It seems to be one of the major objection points.

I was a little concerned at the start due to the plot sizes but the future plant will be only 20h.

SeaSide

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Just maybe most of the good citizens of Fingal don't have a problem with the scheme after they read about the scheme and now know the final shortlist.

Probably because most of the good citizen's of Fingal are quite happy for it to be someone else's problem. Or else they have recognised that the CoCo will do what they want, where they want in any case like the notice that was taken of people's views so far.

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Can anyone give me a rational argument how this plant will threaten Fingals Horticulture industry? It seems to be one of the major objection points.

I don't know and you don't know either but perception in the case of food production is what the industry lives or dies by. If you want an example look at the effect of BSE and the dioxin scare in pork a few years ago or the German version of the food safety authority that wrongly blaming Spanish cucumbers for an outbreak of food poisoning. They couldn't give them away.

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

I was a little concerned at the start due to the plot sizes but the future plant will be only 20h.

This is what they start with and then they add. What gets me is the amount of pipeline that will be required to reach the sites in Lusk. Two pipelines one running from the M50/N2 junction and the other from around Clarehall via Swords. Probably 50km of pipeline in total.

Cardinal Richelieu

SeaSide wrote: »

Probably because most of the good citizen's of Fingal are quite happy for it to be someone else's problem. Or else they have recognised that the CoCo will do what they want, where they want in any case like the notice that was taken of people's views so far.

Or perhaps they don't agree with the political vested interests connecting themselves with the protesters. When you see a grinning FF Senator who was booted out as the local TD and the former press aide to the Ex-Green Minister of the failed previou government, some people won't give them the time of day for good reason. Not to forget the cursing Socialist TD and Shinners.

It also a free society so people can have different views, sometimes these campaigns come over as snobbery if you dare voice that you don't agree with them. If you don't agree with the viewpoint your told your the misinformed one even when you went out of your way to study the issue while they can just quote hearsay or your accused of been too lazy to protest or they call you a sheep. Its an excellent way to piss off potential supporters. Local facebook pages are not immune to this either, they are great for general info but remember at the end of the day the person running the account can set the agenda and tone by blocking posts that do not agree with their viewpoint. One of the great features of Boards is that it allows a wide range of opinions and views to be aired without censorship once you don't break the forum rules.

The local elections are next year, perhaps people who have issues with the council and the councillors who adopted the frankly adopted the "I know nothing" defence can get out to vote this time unlike the 18,000 that didn't bother in the Balbriggan Ward in 2009.

SeaSide wrote: »

I don't know and you don't know either but perception in the case of food production is what the industry lives or dies by. If you want an example look at the effect of BSE and the dioxin scare in pork a few years ago or the German version of the food safety authority that wrongly blaming Spanish cucumbers for an outbreak of food poisoning. They couldn't give them away.

This answer makes no sense! If your worried about perception why have we not closed the pharmaceutcal and chemical in Swords? If say one burns down tomorrow don't we run a risk of ruining Fingals Horticulture Industry. Or is that the Waste water plant would provide less local jobs and we are prepared to lower the risk rating when it comes to providing local jobs. Fact is that the worst risk to Fingals Horiculture Industry apart from the domination of supermarkets and cheap imports is the development of Housing Developments like, Dun Emer, Chapel Village, Goldenridge, Tayleurs Point on precious good Horticulture land that is in rather short supply already and most likely will never be farmed again in the next few hundred years. But I don't hear any protesters complaining about that.

(P.S.you forgot to mention the Irish cucumber scare of the 1990s)

SeaSide wrote: »

This is what they start with and then they add. What gets me is the amount of pipeline that will be required to reach the sites in Lusk. Two pipelines one running from the M50/N2 junction and the other from around Clarehall via Swords. Probably 50km of pipeline in total.

Only one site left in Lusk and that may not be picked since its beside the property developer/TD family farm who has vowed to fight against it but didn't mention his personal interests.

The pipeline was always going to be long especially the outflow as you run the risk of bacteria load overload if you were pumping treated water from the Fingal plant and Ringsend plant in the same section of coast.

SeaSide

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Or perhaps they don't agree with the political vested interests connecting themselves with the protesters. When you see a grinning FF Senator who was booted out as the local TD and the former press aide to the Ex-Green Minister of the failed previou government, some people won't give them the time of day for good reason. Not to forget the cursing Socialist TD and Shinners.

Yes we are blessed with the options that have. I keep an eye on various twitter accounts of our local TDs and they seem to be everywhere except Lusk these days (and Swords on Saturday) BUT it makes no difference since all power on these matters has been taken out of local politicians hands.

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

It also a free society so people can have different views, sometimes these campaigns come over as snobbery if you dare voice that you don't agree with them. If you don't agree with the viewpoint your told your the misinformed one even when you went out of your way to study the issue while they can just quote hearsay or your accused of been too lazy to protest or they call you a sheep. Its an excellent way to piss off potential supporters. Local facebook pages are not immune to this either, they are great for general info but remember at the end of the day the person running the account can set the agenda and tone by blocking posts that do not agree with their viewpoint. One of the great features of Boards is that it allows a wide range of opinions and views to be aired without censorship once you don't break the forum rules.

Don't disagree...

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

The local elections are next year, perhaps people who have issues with the council and the councillors who adopted the frankly adopted the "I know nothing" defence can get out to vote this time unlike the 18,000 that didn't bother in the Balbriggan Ward in 2009.

This is probably a symptom of a wider malaise with the system

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

This answer makes no sense! If your worried about perception why have we not closed the pharmaceutcal and chemical in Swords? If say one burns down tomorrow don't we run a risk of ruining Fingals Horticulture Industry. Or is that the Waste water plant would provide less local jobs and we are prepared to lower the risk rating when it comes to providing local jobs. Fact is that the worst risk to Fingals Horiculture Industry apart from the domination of supermarkets and cheap imports is the development of Housing Developments like, Dun Emer, Chapel Village, Goldenridge, Tayleurs Point on precious good Horticulture land that is in rather short supply already and most likely will never be farmed again in the next few hundred years. But I don't hear any protesters complaining about that.

I believe that tribunals have not managed to get to the bottom of land rezoning around the country but this is a direct result of landbanks being hoarded to push up values.

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

(P.S.you forgot to mention the Irish cucumber scare of the 1990s)

Must have happened on my day off

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Only one site left in Lusk and that may not be picked since its beside the property developer/TD family farm who has vowed to fight against it but didn't mention his personal interests.

You're just too cynical

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

The pipeline was always going to be long especially the outflow as you run the risk of bacteria load overload if you were pumping treated water from the Fingal plant and Ringsend plant in the same section of coast.

And that would that not be an argument for treating the sewage locally

SeaSide

And the winner is Clonshaugh

martinn123

And the winner is...........Clonshaugh.........with the outfall pipe at Portmarnock/ Baldoyle.

CorsendonkX

And so the NIMBYs rise up

Irish Times

Mr Broughan said the decision was “a total disaster” for the area and described it as “a cynical power play by the politicians in Fingal” to place a facility which will work primarily for people in Fingal, “on the very border with Dublin city”.

Further Reading
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/500m-clonshaugh-plant-a-disaster-for-area-says-td-1.1423843

I should say FCC is a Labour dominated Council, the same party as Mr Broughan and as AFAIK it was the experts in charge of the DDS that picked the final site not the councilors. Maybe in coming days he will provide evidence to vindicate his statement.

Senator Averil Power(FF) was also on Pat Kenny today objecting to the scheme
http://averilpower.ie/?p=3704

You got to love Tommy Kelleher(LB), he ain't afraid of increasing costs and handing out compo in these tough times. Local politics over national budgets....

IrishTimes

project engineers said the proposed site would lead to a saving of some €80 million on the original estimated cost of €500 million. Mr Kelleher suggested that €20 million or €30 million of that should be earmarked for community projects in the local area.

Full Article
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/call-for-community-projects-as-compensation-1.1423876

Ernest

I am surprised that there has, so far, been so little outcry on this forum against the proposal of Fingal County Council to locate the enormous new sewage treatment plant at Clonsaugh and to pipe the outfall from this to a point opposite Sutton/Baldoyle/Portmarnock.

Given the high amenity value of the beaches at Portmarnock and Sutton and adjacency of Howth fishing industry, this seems to be an extraordinary location for such a pollutant.

msg11

Excuse my ignorance but is it not clean water they are flushing out into the sea?

dsmythy

They had two other locations but residents did kick up a fuss.

CorsendonkX

Ernest wrote: »

I am surprised that there has, so far, been so little outcry on this forum against the proposal of Fingal County Council to locate the enormous new sewage treatment plant at Clonsaugh and to pipe the outfall from this to a point opposite Sutton/Baldoyle/Portmarnock.

Given the high amenity value of the beaches at Portmarnock and Sutton and adjacency of Howth fishing industry, this seems to be an extraordinary location for such a pollutant.

Thread here

OP how much of the Howth Fishing industry harvest comes from the waters that the outfall pipe discharges treated water into?

sNarah

Threads merged