Higher Certificate in Science in Computing in Applications & Support

Brewie

Before I start I just want to declare that I DO realise that I am too late for the above named course.

I'm looking to do a not too basic course in Computers that has a ready made and well laid out path to further levels ie the Hons Degree. I saw on other posts that verified NCI folks keep an eye on here and I'm hoping they can help. Hearing from them would be great, also from people who have previously completed or on the path I am planning for myself.

The couple of questions I have are:

Overall difficulty of the course?: I've always had an interest computers and since I finished college/established my career path I really regret not doing a computer course initially. Is it going to be overly difficult for an intelligent person who has zero experience in this field. This ties into my next question.....

Course workload; I plan to study at night as I currently work fulltime in a unrelated area I'm wondering how much time is required for home study/revision. (I still want to retain some sort of social life too )
Side note - I've previously completed a years night time course so I know exactly the demands of travel and actually class attendance)

Study progression: On completion of the higher cert and deciding to join year 3 of the honours degree would I be far behind/less knowledgable in the course subject as someone who decided to just to the Honours degree from the outset. (I plan to do the higher cert to ensure I like the subjects/computer area. I will stick out a two year program if I dont like it after semester 1 but a four year course would be a different story).

Moonbeam

Do you have a primary degree already?

Brewie

Moonbeam wrote: »

Do you have a primary degree already?

I've got a BA in Accounting & Finance (Honours)

Moonbeam

I asked because it might be better to look at post grad course then rather then undergrad?

Nci have a few pgd and masters in computer related disciplines.

Brewie

Would I not be totally lost if I went to do a masters in a field such as this without any previous studying or experience...

Is it possible to do a masters in a totally unrelated subject/area with zero experience aswell?

Moonbeam

Yup!
It depends on the masters though.
Have a look at a few of them and it will tell you what previous experience etc is needed.

Brewie

Had a quick look through the pgd's and not eligible (seriously doubt I'd be incapable of completing them anyway). Looking more for something totally different just like the course mentioned.

I kind of enjoy studying too so its a part hobby and part potential profession change.

Adam

If you're intelligent you'll get by fine with no prior experience, they start from square one! I started the degree in computing course as a 25 year old mature student this year. Now I have a good amount of prior experience but no formal education in the subjects, and I'm getting on fine, as is my friend who has no prior experience, just a good head on him. Do the two years, they'll fly, and see what you see from there!

skimpydoo

Moonbeam wrote: »

Yup!
It depends on the masters though.
Have a look at a few of them and it will tell you what previous experience etc is needed.

You could do the Cert in Cloud Computing and if that goes well move onto the course I am on Post Grad in Cloud Computing.

Dyl1991

its not hard at all if you have a bit of intelligence about you, which you must have after finishing one course.

im not too sure on the evening workload, but the full time isnt much if you do the stuff as you get it, and not leave it for ages and let it pile up.

you wont be behind whatsoever, the first 2 years of BSc is the exact same as the entire HCC course, they mirror each other exactly.

I did the HCC, and am now in year 3 of the BSc, in case you wondered.

Nemothefish

@ Brewie

STAY AWAY FROM NCI.... go some where else... STAY AWAY....

I'm on the pgcert in cloud computing... in NCI and its run by 3 year olds... seriously... I picked the course because it looked impressive on-line and it was part of springboard... but that's where my prase for this course ends.. They advertised the course as a point of entry in to the Cloud computing industry, and that you dont nead a programming backgroud.... they lie...

anyway I don't want to make this a rant about my course... , I'm also a student in Kevin St... there are pro's and con's to both but... NCI will put you in to a huge class, and try to shock you with 70+ students in your class and 630-1030 evening lectures... with 2-3 differnt subjects a night... DIT has you in 630/7 - 930 with one lecture a night... the classes are smaller, and the lectuers are more accomidating to your needs...

N

PM me if you want more info

Adam

Nemothefish wrote: »

@ Brewie

STAY AWAY FROM NCI.... go some where else... STAY AWAY....

I'm on the pgcert in cloud computing... in NCI and its run by 3 year olds... seriously... I picked the course because it looked impressive on-line and it was part of springboard... but that's where my prase for this course ends.. They advertised the course as a point of entry in to the Cloud computing industry, and that you dont nead a programming backgroud.... they lie...

anyway I don't want to make this a rant about my course... , I'm also a student in Kevin St... there are pro's and con's to both but... NCI will put you in to a huge class, and try to shock you with 70+ students in your class and 630-1030 evening lectures... with 2-3 differnt subjects a night... DIT has you in 630/7 - 930 with one lecture a night... the classes are smaller, and the lectuers are more accomidating to your needs...

N

PM me if you want more info

I'm in a full time class of 80 and it's not a problem, unless you need someone to hold your hand. 8 people or 80 people, they're still going to teach you the same stuff.

Nemothefish

Hand holding is one thing... but

a first lecture on JSript and they start talking about fibonachi... is not fair on a class who dont even know what an If/Else statement is or does... i know its a level 9 but... advertised as "No previous experiance neaded..."

explain that to me.

Adam

Nemothefish wrote: »

Hand holding is one thing... but

a first lecture on JSript and they start talking about fibonachi... is not fair on a class who dont even know what an If/Else statement is or does... i know its a level 9 but... advertised as "No previous experiance neaded..."

explain that to me.

Ok.

NCI Prospectus wrote:

Entry Requirements

A second class honours Level 8 degree in a related area.

anyone that didn't know what an if/else statement is should most definitely not have been there. At no point it a postgrad course advertised as needing no prior experience.

Nemothefish

There is a Nurse on the course... there are people from a construction backgroud... while nurseing is science it is not programming

Adam

Nemothefish wrote: »

There is a Nurse on the course... there are people from a construction backgroud... while nurseing is science it is not programming

And how is that a "related area"? You're slating the course based on nothing.

clubcrown

Adam wrote: »

And how is that a "related area"? You're slating the course based on nothing.

It seems NCI accepted people with any degree at all - not related degrees. They should have *only* accepted people with engineering or electronics degrees, or people with prior industry experience (like me)..........but they didn't. Pretty much everybody who applied was let in. Some weren't even interviewed to see if they would be able to cope with the content.

So you end up with a bunch of people on a level 9 course who really shouldn't be on it, and will probably not finish the course, alongside people who can cope if they work hard, and also some people who can cope quite easily because of their past experience.

So Nemo is entirely correct to slag the college here - there are other issues with the course content, but basically the problem here is that they pretty much let anyone who could pay join the course, hence a nurse, a pharmacist, people from construction industry, people who were previously working on non-IT helpdesks, etc etc.

The problem is that the entire class gets dragged down to the lowest level and everything gets delayed or dumbed down to that level.

To the OP; if you don't have prior experience, I would suggest getting on the cert course rather than the postgrad. You may struggle otherwise.

Adam

clubcrown wrote: »

It seems NCI accepted people with any degree at all - not related degrees. They should have *only* accepted people with engineering or electronics degrees, or people with prior industry experience (like me)..........but they didn't. Pretty much everybody who applied was let in. Some weren't even interviewed to see if they would be able to cope with the content.

So you end up with a bunch of people on a level 9 course who really shouldn't be on it, and will probably not finish the course, alongside people who can cope if they work hard, and also some people who can cope quite easily because of their past experience.

So Nemo is entirely correct to slag the college here - there are other issues with the course content, but basically the problem here is that they pretty much let anyone who could pay join the course, hence a nurse, a pharmacist, people from construction industry, people who were previously working on non-IT helpdesks, etc etc.

The problem is that the entire class gets dragged down to the lowest level and everything gets delayed or dumbed down to that level.

To the OP; if you don't have prior experience, I would suggest getting on the cert course rather than the postgrad. You may struggle otherwise.

Who are they to tell someone they can't do the course? I'm sure not everyone is completely lost, and not everyone has extensive experience. For all we know, they were told exactly what the course would be like and chose to do it anyway. We see people going in to third level courses every year that are way out of their depth and realise very suddenly that the course is not for them. My only point is it's unfair to blame it on the college when we don't know what went between them and the applicants.

clubcrown

Adam wrote: »

Who are they to tell someone they can't do the course? I'm sure not everyone is completely lost, and not everyone has extensive experience. For all we know, they were told exactly what the course would be like and chose to do it anyway. We see people going in to third level courses every year that are way out of their depth and realise very suddenly that the course is not for them. My only point is it's unfair to blame it on the college when we don't know what went between them and the applicants.

Ok, with all due respect, unless you're actually *on* the course, then you don't really know what you're talking about. I am on the course and I know exactly "what went on between them and the applicants". I'm not making this stuff up.

I already said there are a bunch of people finding it easy, and another bunch who will get there with hard work (me, for one :-) Its the people who are actually lost that I'm on about.

NCI allowed people onto this course who were clearly not going to be able to complete it. You find that information out by interviewing people, which only happened for some. They should have recommended those people a place on the cert rather than a level 9 course. Then everyone would be happy.

As far as I can see its a money grab from NCI, but hey, whats new?

Anyway this is gone way off topic for the OP. I'm not sure why you're even arguing the point here. Wait a minute, you're not actually the NCI president, are you?

Adam

clubcrown wrote: »

Ok, with all due respect, unless you're actually *on* the course, then you don't really know what you're talking about. I am on the course and I know exactly "what went on between them and the applicants". I'm not making this stuff up.

I already said there are a bunch of people finding it easy, and another bunch who will get there with hard work (me, for one :-) Its the people who are actually lost that I'm on about.

NCI allowed people onto this course who were clearly not going to be able to complete it. You find that information out by interviewing people, which only happened for some. They should have recommended those people a place on the cert rather than a level 9 course. Then everyone would be happy.

As far as I can see its a money grab from NCI, but hey, whats new?

Anyway this is gone way off topic for the OP. I'm not sure why you're even arguing the point here. Wait a minute, you're not actually the NCI president, are you?

I'm not, luckily for you! :P

I'm not on the course, I'm a mature student in the Computing course, and I simply believe people will do what they want to do. At the end of the day NCI obviously aren't going to turn anyone away if the places are there, and I think it's the individuals responsibility to research the course that's right for them. There are plenty of people that are lost in my course already, and the dropout rate will be high, i don't blame that on the college, and this is in a course that really did start from square one! And it's on that note that I too return from off topic by reiterating what I said to the OP. If you're smart enough, you'll have no problems at all in undergrad!

clubcrown

Adam wrote: »

I'm not, luckily for you! :P

I'm not on the course, I'm a mature student in the Computing course, and I simply believe people will do what they want to do. At the end of the day NCI obviously aren't going to turn anyone away if the places are there, and I think it's the individuals responsibility to research the course that's right for them. There are plenty of people that are lost in my course already, and the dropout rate will be high, i don't blame that on the college, and this is in a course that really did start from square one! And it's on that note that I too return from off topic by reiterating what I said to the OP. If you're smart enough, you'll have no problems at all in undergrad!

Good luck with your course. People did research the course in advance, of course they did, but its not panned out that way............lots of things changed, like how they cut our lab hours from week one, gave us one lab assistant for a class of 70 people and changed the order of the modules around so we have complete novices faced with learning javascript (and html/css of course), ruby and C# in 3 months, none of which was set out in the original course description.................

Suffice to say all is not sweetness and light in our course, and when a college tells you before day one that no prior development experience is required, you can understand why people are pissed off with them for misleading students. A lot of what is in the original course description, and a lot of what we were told before we started, has simply not happened that way. That is not fair on students, full stop. Already we've had a class meeting with the dean and several lectures have been disrupted because people have no clue whats happening, so this is a real issue.

I bet you one thing though - they will run things properly next year.

Anyway...........back to my rails project

Edit: btw, this is a postgrad one year course, not undergrad. Time is a factor.

Adam

I hear ya, there's clearly some huge underlying issues with that particular course! I only spoke up as I'm finding our course quite good so far, and I don't think the college should be completely disregarded, which the OP might do if all he heard was one very bad review! Good luck to you too, and thanks!

Barack Obama

Adam wrote: »

I'm not, luckily for you! :P

I'm not on the course, I'm a mature student in the Computing course, and I simply believe people will do what they want to do. At the end of the day NCI obviously aren't going to turn anyone away if the places are there, and I think it's the individuals responsibility to research the course that's right for them. There are plenty of people that are lost in my course already, and the dropout rate will be high, i don't blame that on the college, and this is in a course that really did start from square one! And it's on that note that I too return from off topic by reiterating what I said to the OP. If you're smart enough, you'll have no problems at all in undergrad!

Adam - you're 25. Hardly a mature student. Posting statement's like needing "someone to hold your hand" in response to someone that is actually *on* the course and giving their experiences of how badly the course is being run comes across as patronising.

I am taking the Postgrad Diploma course in Cloud Computing with NCI and I can confirm that it is a complete mess - I would not recommend it to anyone in it's current format. I have a degree in IT and 10 years experience in my field so I'm not too bad. There are people with zero background in IT on the course and they are really struggling - the course(s) should NOT have been sold as applicable to people with a degree in other areas and no experience in IT.

Adam wrote: »

I'm not, luckily for you!

I'm not on the course, I'm a mature student in the Computing course, and I simply believe people will do what they want to do. At the end of the day NCI obviously aren't going to turn anyone away if the places are there, and I think it's the individuals responsibility to research the course that's right for them. There are plenty of people that are lost in my course already, and the dropout rate will be high, i don't blame that on the college, and this is in a course that really did start from square one! And it's on that note that I too return from off topic by reiterating what I said to the OP. If you're smart enough, you'll have no problems at all in undergrad!

You are incorrect when you say that NCI will not turn anyone away if the places are available - postgraduate places should only be offered to people who have the academic standard (2nd class honours degree) or professional experience.

These are postgraduate, level 9 courses and much more difficult then undergraduate courses.

Adam

Barack Obama wrote: »

Adam - you're 25. Hardly a mature student. Posting statement's like needing "someone to hold your hand" in response to someone that is actually *on* the course and giving their experiences of how badly the course is being run comes across as patronising.

I am taking the Postgrad Diploma course in Cloud Computing with NCI and I can confirm that it is a complete mess - I would not recommend it to anyone in it's current format. I have a degree in IT and 10 years experience in my field so I'm not too bad. There are people with zero background in IT on the course and they are really struggling - the course(s) should NOT have been sold as applicable to people with a degree in other areas and no experience in IT.



You are incorrect when you say that NCI will not turn anyone away if the places are available - postgraduate places should only be offered to people who have the academic standard (2nd class honours degree) or professional experience.

These are postgraduate, level 9 courses and much more difficult then undergraduate courses.

So pointing out my age and telling me I'm "hardly a mature student" isn't patronizing? Well done there.

Clanket

I'd have to agree with Adam. It's up to people to decide if a course is for them. NCI shouldn't have to evaluate every student and whether they should be on the course.

Shame about the problems on the course but it is a new one and they do take time to bed in.

clubcrown

Clanket wrote: »

I'd have to agree with Adam. It's up to people to decide if a course is for them. NCI shouldn't have to evaluate every student and whether they should be on the course.

Shame about the problems on the course but it is a new one and they do take time to bed in.

Read the thread more carefully. They were meant to evaluate the non-IT students in advance, that's the whole point. Only some got evaluated and interviewed - like me for example. The rest were just accepted without even talking to anyone in NCI first. Hence why so many people are struggling.

Also this is a very expensive course, its not an undergrad course, its almost equivalent to doing a masters. And because its part time there is no student grant or BTEA or any support at all for students. So the college needed to get things right from the start, its a big big investment for students.

So you would expect that they would vet/interview students - because they said they would - and that they would get the course content right. They've done neither, and they've been changing things on the fly as the months have passed.

Maybe believe the people who are actually sitting the course next time, yeah? I'm sure NCI have many fine courses, but this one is a disaster so far.

Barack Obama

Clanket wrote: »

I'd have to agree with Adam. It's up to people to decide if a course is for them. NCI shouldn't have to evaluate every student and whether they should be on the course.

Shame about the problems on the course but it is a new one and they do take time to bed in.

I completely agree - we all hope that the NCI learn from this and run a better course next year. On paper it looks excellent and the content is bang up to date - imo, a lot better then other MSc courses from larger institutions.

But again, you are missing the point. NCI SHOULD evaluate every application for a level 9 course and offers should only be made to suitable students. Here's the prospectus - have a look at the entry requirements -
http://www.ncirl.ie/Programmes_Courses/Postgraduate/Postgraduate-Diploma-in-Science-in-Cloud-Computing-PGDCLOUDNCI1

Clanket

clubcrown wrote: »

Read the thread more carefully. They were meant to evaluate the non-IT students in advance, that's the whole point. Only some got evaluated and interviewed - like me for example. The rest were just accepted without even talking to anyone in NCI first. Hence why so many people are struggling.

Also this is a very expensive course, its not an undergrad course, its almost equivalent to doing a masters. And because its part time there is no student grant or BTEA or any support at all for students. So the college needed to get things right from the start, its a big big investment for students.

So you would expect that they would vet/interview students - because they said they would - and that they would get the course content right. They've done neither, and they've been changing things on the fly as the months have passed.

Maybe believe the people who are actually sitting the course next time, yeah? I'm sure NCI have many fine courses, but this one is a disaster so far.

The thread above mentions nothing about this (bolded above). If that's true and NCI specifically said they would evaluate people before allowing them on the course then that's wrong. However, if it was me and they told me thay would evaluate me, I wouldn't have started the course without an evaluation.

clubcrown

Clanket wrote: »

The thread above mentions nothing about this (bolded above). If that's true and NCI specifically said they would evaluate people before allowing them on the course then that's wrong. However, if it was me and they told me thay would evaluate me, I wouldn't have started the course without an evaluation.

eh....yeah it does, in both my first two posts. :rolleyes:

Anybody funded by springboard is having their fees paid by the taxpayer. Its incumbent on any colleges participating in the scheme to ensure that the correct people get on the correct courses. And that the courses are properly run.

The last thing you want is for springboard to pay big fees for people to take postgraduate or masters courses and then for some of those people to fail because they weren't even interviewed or assessed to see if they could do the course.

And if you really read the thread, you'd have seen that NCI told everyone that absolutely no prior experience was required, so its not right to say people should have opted out without getting an interview. Basically they sold the course incorrectly, people signed on in good faith, and now everyone is suffering as a result.

There is someone on the course who had to be told that she could right-click a mouse. If the college bothered to interview people then she would never had made it onto the course in the first place.

All my other points stand. I'm not writing NCI off totally - but this is just our experience so far, and its not good. I'm not sure why you're trying to defend them so much, the students certainly aren't in the wrong here.

Clanket

clubcrown wrote: »

eh....yeah it does, in both my first two posts. :rolleyes:

Anybody funded by springboard is having their fees paid by the taxpayer. Its incumbent on any colleges participating in the scheme to ensure that the correct people get on the correct courses. And that the courses are properly run.

The last thing you want is for springboard to pay big fees for people to take postgraduate or masters courses and then for some of those people to fail because they weren't even interviewed or assessed to see if they could do the course.

And if you really read the thread, you'd have seen that NCI told everyone that absolutely no prior experience was required, so its not right to say people should have opted out without getting an interview. Basically they sold the course incorrectly, people signed on in good faith, and now everyone is suffering as a result.

There is someone on the course who had to be told that she could right-click a mouse. If the college bothered to interview people then she would never had made it onto the course in the first place.

All my other points stand. I'm not writing NCI off totally - but this is just our experience so far, and its not good. I'm not sure why you're trying to defend them so much, the students certainly aren't in the wrong here.

They were meant to evaluate the non-IT students in advance,

You can roll your eyes all you want. Please show me exactly where (by way of quotes) it says in your first two posts that NCI were supposed to evaluate the non-IT students in advance.

A colleges remit is to teach. Not to work out what class people should be in. That's up to the student.

As has been pointed out by yourself and others, the course has problems.
Can you please clarify exactly what course it is. Without re-reading the whole thread in detail it seems to be:-
Postgraduate Diploma in Science in Cloud Computing

If it's this course then the site says "The Post-Graduate Diploma in Cloud Computing will particularly appeal to graduates with level 8 degrees in related disciplines (including Science, Engineering, Computing…etc.)". Was this not there last year?

I could be wrong about the course but If I'm not, what did people expect?

clubcrown

Clanket wrote: »

You can roll your eyes all you want. Please show me exactly where (by way of quotes) it says in your first two posts that NCI were supposed to evaluate the non-IT students in advance.

A colleges remit is to teach. Not to work out what class people should be in. That's up to the student.

As has been pointed out by yourself and others, the course has problems.
Can you please clarify exactly what course it is. Without re-reading the whole thread in detail it seems to be:-
Postgraduate Diploma in Science in Cloud Computing

If it's this course then the site says "The Post-Graduate Diploma in Cloud Computing will particularly appeal to graduates with level 8 degrees in related disciplines (including Science, Engineering, Computing…etc.)". Was this not there last year?

I could be wrong about the course but If I'm not, what did people expect?

Its a brand new course. Seeing as you're pretty much ignoring what I'm saying, and entirely missing the point, I'm done with this discussion.