Not paying maintenence ordered

Soccer Mom

Hi all. I was just wondering if anyone has anyone had any experience of this? My ex (we're yet to separate) went months without paying anything towards our two kids, but early September he was ordered to pay €150pw. The judge made him hand me the back-maintenance there and then. He would have been due to make a payment the following day, but hasn't paid a jot since.


I was under the impression that he could have gotten in a lot of trouble for this, but apparently not. I let it build up to €600 then went back to the court offices, and they've given me another court date in December. Is this really the quickest route here? Sorry if that sounds like a daft question, only I'm really badly strapped for money, can't afford to pay a lot of the bills, or run the car I badly need to get the kids to school. I don't know how I'll get by till then

The ex has no bills to pay, lives with his father, and in a full time job. He has no excuse not to pay, other than being bitter because I ended the marriage. I've met a new partner now too, which has added fuel to the fire.

I'm pulling out my hair looking at reminder letters and threats to cancel my insurance. Has anyone gone through something similar, and how did you deal with it?

Daisy M

I thought it was the court clerks job to chase up non payments. Did you cotact him/her? Also a judge can rule that an employer deducts the maintainance from wages and pays it to your bank account, I know someone whos ex worked for esb and this was ordered, ask your solicitor to request this.

silly

From my experience you have to bring him back to court everytime he falls on his payments.
That's what I had to do.... Every few months....for 8 years!!!
Everytime there was a warrant sent to his local Garda station for the money he owed... I even had to chase them up about the warrant as they couldn't care less!!
I decided this year to give up after I arranged for us to meet a mediator and he never turned up, so I had to pay her the money myself.
He owes me about 3 grand now... Maybe more, lost count. I've stopped my daughter going to see him or his family as I am so fed up with it.
I would like to take him back to court but I am newly married now and the ex has threatened that he will take my new husband to court too to get his wages assessed. Which is the last thing I need. I dont expect my husband to support ex's daughter.

Anyway, moral of story is, you have to keep going back to the court clerk and informing them that he us not paying, you'll get a court date, and he'll have to pay or promise to pay and then when he stops paying, you have to get onto the court clerk again...vicious circle!

Daisy M

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/separation_and_divorce/maintenance_orders_and_agreements.html

This link does say it can be ordered to be deducted at source by employer, it may be worth your while looking into this.

Soccer Mom

Thanks for the replies I went to CI to confirm it can be taken straight from his wages. The woman I spoke to seemed to think it could be done, but she was concerned that maintenance arrangements had been already set in place. She has told me to ring them on Tuesday to arrange an appointment with a visiting solicitor for the Wednesday. It's all happening so slowly, while the bills keep mounting at an alarming rate.


Anger is eating me away, I can't understand how he could do this to his own flesh and blood, and all for the sake at getting back at me.

tatabubbly

Hey, be careful he doesn't leave the country, my dad did on the boat to scotland and owes my mum thousands. There's no way for her to get them but I'm telling you the minute I get my hands on him, I'm gonna make a citizens arrest :P

If he continues to not pay, I know they can send them to prison for it. My dad went. TBH I dunno how someone could just leave and not think of the things like kids clothes, food etc. but it happens.

Best of luck OP

PinkFly

do you have to pay the court fees everytime you go back though?

My ex brought me to court last year and has rarely paid since then,

I never followed up on it because I've been used to not having the money from him and tbh I cant afford solicitor fees etc etc.

Silly in fairness I think you should still allow your children to see their father, you will get sorted with the money, eventually, but your children need a constant relationship with him.

Another thing, an agreement was made that he could have my son for 2 single weeks during his summer holidays, he never botherd taking him, they can't be carried over or anything can they??

silly

No, they can't be carried over.
You don't need a solicitor - they are handy to have but not necessary.
I still owe my solicitor about €250 from last year. I don't have it.

The reason I am not letting my daughter see her father is because he is a horrible individual who doesn't really want to see her anyway. He hurts her feelings every time she goes to his town to visit with him and his family, he doesn't even have her staying with him when she goes down.
When she does go there he doesn't let me speak to her and ignores my calls.
He never does his share of the driving and I have to drive the hour and a half to get her...
The list goes on.
She's better off without him.

Soccer Mom

tatabubbly wrote: »

Hey, be careful he doesn't leave the country, my dad did on the boat to scotland and owes my mum thousands. There's no way for her to get them but I'm telling you the minute I get my hands on him, I'm gonna make a citizens arrest :P

If he continues to not pay, I know they can send them to prison for it. My dad went. TBH I dunno how someone could just leave and not think of the things like kids clothes, food etc. but it happens.

Best of luck OP

Hi Tata, thanks for answering. He's made threats to leave the country alright, but I don't see him doing it. He's basically throwing everything at me for a reaction, and has asked me to take him back in between all of his threats. Despite the fact that I'm financially strung, I've told him to go if he's going. He's no use of no use to me, and certainly not the kids.

I tried to encourage a relationship between the kids and their father, but he's more interested in my personal life and using them as pawns. I'm so sad, for them.


@Silly, you're right to have stopped bothering. Trying to force a relationship between father and child, well it's pointless, and does the child more harm if you ask me.

tatabubbly

Soccer Mom wrote: »

Hi Tata, thanks for answering. He's made threats to leave the country alright, but I don't see him doing it. He's basically throwing everything at me for a reaction, and has asked me to take him back in between all of his threats. Despite the fact that I'm financially strung, I've told him to go if he's going. He's no use of no use to me, and certainly not the kids.

I tried to encourage a relationship between the kids and their father, but he's more interested in my personal life and using them as pawns. I'm so sad, for them.


@Silly, you're right to have stopped bothering. Trying to force a relationship between father and child, well it's pointless, and does the child more harm if you ask me.

Do what you think is your gut instinct I think in that case.
It's more damaging emotionally for him to pop in and out of their lives.

There needs to be clear days and times when he should be there, even in the house or out for something to eat. Do not let yourself get emotionally manipulated. If he claims he can't come, tell him he has to arrange babysitting, that you have things to do (even if you don't),and you will leave the kids to him (you wouldn't really).
He needs to take responsibility. Draw the line with treats. Buying your kid a toy does not make up for not being emotionally nurtured by him. Birthdays, xmas, easter, make set times where he can give presents. Your child will be left feeling that material things count and left with a big hole.

Hope it helps, this is some of the things that helped my mum. It ended up he didn't bother showing up, leading to me as a 16 year old telling him to take a hike and not come back.

PinkFly

thanks all....

for a long long time i was made to feel by alot lot of people that I was over reacting and should never stop visitations etc but reading comments here, he is just as bad as what was mentioned by posters, missing times because of hangovers, not paying and working and magically having money for drink, never answering calls when he is in his care,coming home stinking of smoke and manky dirty and calling me a moaner when i complain about not answering his fone, bringing my personal life in to every arguement when its never relevant......

I'm just so afraid if i cut him out that he will twist things when my son is older and he will resent me?

okiss

I am sorry to hear about the problems you are having at the moment.
You are trying to let him have time with the child/children but it is not fair if he is using them to get back at you.

I would look into get money stopped from his wages for you each week or month.

Go to his family home and tell his parents and your ex that if you don't get the money for the children you will go into his place of work and tell every one how he won't pay for his children.

One lady I know got money from her son each time he was paid and give it to the mother of his child.
His parents may think he is giving you money and won't be impressed with him if this is not happening.

angelfire9

First off OP you don't need a solicitor for family law cases and judges will be used to parents not bringing solicitors it won't make a difference to your case
Get back to court ASAP (can you not get a date before December??) Maybe go into the courts office & bring a copy of the order and tell them he is in breach of it not sure if this will get you a quicker date but no harm in trying??

And when you do get back to court ask to get an attachment order to force the deductions direct from his salary his payroll section can sort that out in 5 seconds so it isn't a problem

I presume you have tried to talk to your ex about this?

Send a letter to his house addressed to Mr. **** if he lives with his dad chances are they have the same surname & if his dad is at home while your ex is at work chances are his dad will open the letter? a not too subtle way of getting your father in law to put pressure on his useless son to cough up
If you do go this route be polite and firm and list out the bills and expenses that you have piled up and send a copy of the court order and remind him of the dates which he was supposed to pay you but didn't
Methinks his father won't be too impressed

If this does work make sure you go back to court in December anyway and get your maintenance set in stone
Good luck!!

champie

The court system in this country is useless my ex has supposed to have been in court 4 times for non payment he has turned up twice and now I'm being treated like the villian I'm being made go back to court each time on the off chance he turns up giving up a day almost every month to sit in family court is not what I wanted:(

I just want to be able to provide for my child he doesn't have regular contact he comes and goes I was tempted to try and get structured access but I know what he is like he will just come up with excuses the days he is supposed to have child and then on the other days blame me saying he's not allowed I felt it was only going to give him more amunition to play games with now my child is getting older and is starting to see his dad for the waste of space that he is and Daddy darling cannot blame me only himself

This is working at the moment but it is so wrong that they can just get away with it and nobody will do anything to stop it

I feel for you but I think the reason they get away with it so much is that the system is so frustrating that most people just give up eventually I have no intention of letting him away with it and neither should you he is a father if he is not prepared to look after the physical or emotional side he should be made look after the financial side

Funky G

silly wrote: »

From my experience you have to bring him back to court everytime he falls on his payments.
That's what I had to do.... Every few months....for 8 years!!!
Everytime there was a warrant sent to his local Garda station for the money he owed... I even had to chase them up about the warrant as they couldn't care less!!
I decided this year to give up after I arranged for us to meet a mediator and he never turned up, so I had to pay her the money myself.
He owes me about 3 grand now... Maybe more, lost count. I've stopped my daughter going to see him or his family as I am so fed up with it.
I would like to take him back to court but I am newly married now and the ex has threatened that he will take my new husband to court too to get his wages assessed. Which is the last thing I need. I dont expect my husband to support ex's daughter.

Anyway, moral of story is, you have to keep going back to the court clerk and informing them that he us not paying, you'll get a court date, and he'll have to pay or promise to pay and then when he stops paying, you have to get onto the court clerk again...vicious circle!

afaik your new husband now has rights over your child, and yes, its probable he will have to look after your child since you have moved on and married.

as for the dad, let him get your new partners wages assessed. all it shows is money coming in and money going out. it shows how your husband is providing for your daughter in a happy and safe environment. but it does not mean that the dad is excused from paying maintenance. but point out that your ex has not paid a penny in maintenance and your bank records will prove this. keep all your receipts. do a quick look back. painful i know but if your daughter has some sort of a bond with her dad you cant keep fighting over it. the key point is to stop the fighting once and for all.

i only know of one man who has never paid child maintenance - for the simple reason that at the time, till his kids grew up, he had them 3 days per week, then 4 days per week on rotation including over nights. his argument was because he had his kids 50% of the time, he had to incur the same costs as the mother.

lads - pay maintenance for your kids. something is better than nothing. there is no such thing as a free lunch !!!

Morag

Funky G wrote: »

afaik your new husband now has rights over your child, and yes, its probable he will have to look after your child since you have moved on and married.

This is completely wrong.
Getting married to the mother when you are not the bio father of the child does not confer any legal rights or create any legal relationship to the child.

The only way that can be done is if the new husband adopts the child and that can only be done if the bio father does not have guardianship and even if the bio father does not he can block the adoption.

Kildrought

i only know of one man who has never paid child maintenance

I can name hundreds...

Funky G

Kildrought wrote: »

I can name hundreds...

please quote correctly.

thank you.

silly

Sharrow wrote: »

Funky G wrote: »

afaik your new husband now has rights over your child, and yes, its probable he will have to look after your child since you have moved on and married.

This is completely wrong.
Getting married to the mother when you are not the bio father of the child does not confer any legal rights or create any legal relationship to the child.

The only way that can be done is if the new husband adopts the child and that can only be done if the bio father does not have guardianship and even if the bio father does not he can block the adoption.

Thanks for that info.
My issue is ( and I'm sorry for hijacking this thread - it wasn't my intention) I do not want my husband to have to go to court or to release details of his earnings to my ex.
He is a very private person and this has nothing to do with this situation.
I pay for everything for my daughter myself, this was a decision I made when I first got together with my now husband. Food for the household is paid for from our joint account and of course I don't get different shopping for my daughter, but when it comes to clothes, school books, Santa presents etc. it's me that pays it.

Funky G

Sharrow wrote: »

This is completely wrong.
Getting married to the mother when you are not the bio father of the child does not confer any legal rights or create any legal relationship to the child.

The only way that can be done is if the new husband adopts the child and that can only be done if the bio father does not have guardianship and even if the bio father does not he can block the adoption.

erm...yes it is. once you get married, you get rights

how do i know? from my solicitor and the parents support group who i'm with.

you become a de facto parent - you're involved in the day-to-day aspects of a child.

Sleepy

silly wrote: »

Thanks for that info.
My issue is ( and I'm sorry for hijacking this thread - it wasn't my intention) I do not want my husband to have to go to court or to release details of his earnings to my ex.
He is a very private person and this has nothing to do with this situation.
I pay for everything for my daughter myself, this was a decision I made when I first got together with my now husband. Food for the household is paid for from our joint account and of course I don't get different shopping for my daughter, but when it comes to clothes, school books, Santa presents etc. it's me that pays it.

Unfortunately, the law would see things differently AFAIK. Since your husband is expected to provide for you (e.g. if you're out of work your entitlement to welfare runs out as soon as your stamps do) I believe he'd also be expected to provide for your daughter.

Otherwise, you could rig your finances so you appeared destitute with your income barely covering the bills whilst his salary was completely untouched by any expenses. While it's admirable that you discussed the topic before marriage, you really should have looked into the legalities of it. I'm not a lawyer, nor claiming to know the ins and outs of this but if you're a married couple, his income would have to be factored into an assessment of means for you which should obviously affect any maintenance arrangement determined by the courts.

Morag

Funky G wrote: »

erm...yes it is. once you get married, you get rights

how do i know? from my solicitor and the parents support group who i'm with.

you become a de facto parent - you're involved in the day-to-day aspects of a child.

Not over the child.

You may be the hands on day to day defacto parent but legally you are a stranger to the child, can not legally consent to anything be it school or medical consent forums and if the mother of the child dies the child can go to the bio father or the mother;s parents and you can be refused access or visitation as legally a step father is a stranger unless the child is adopted by you.

Kildrought

FunkyG - when you know what you are talking about, I'll be prepared to worry about 'how' you are quoted.

silly

Sleepy wrote: »

silly wrote: »

Thanks for that info.
My issue is ( and I'm sorry for hijacking this thread - it wasn't my intention) I do not want my husband to have to go to court or to release details of his earnings to my ex.
He is a very private person and this has nothing to do with this situation.
I pay for everything for my daughter myself, this was a decision I made when I first got together with my now husband. Food for the household is paid for from our joint account and of course I don't get different shopping for my daughter, but when it comes to clothes, school books, Santa presents etc. it's me that pays it.

Unfortunately, the law would see things differently AFAIK. Since your husband is expected to provide for you (e.g. if you're out of work your entitlement to welfare runs out as soon as your stamps do) I believe he'd also be expected to provide for your daughter.

Otherwise, you could rig your finances so you appeared destitute with your income barely covering the bills whilst his salary was completely untouched by any expenses. While it's admirable that you discussed the topic before marriage, you really should have looked into the legalities of it. I'm not a lawyer, nor claiming to know the ins and outs of this but if you're a married couple, his income would have to be factored into an assessment of means for you which should obviously affect any maintenance arrangement determined by the courts.

Thanks for that.
Things have got a bit out of hand here.
My husband has no issues with supporting me and my daughter if I should lose my job etc.
The issue is with my ex. Thinking he can not give me maintenance ( owes over 3 grand now) because I am married now, so my daughter is no longer his responsibility.

champie

My Ex had to kids before me and the mother of the children took him to court looking for more maintenance he had been paying her because I made sure it was paid ironic now that I am chasing him but anyway when he went to court they took my earnings into account but wouldn't take in to account that we had a child that is about 10 years ago now so not sure if the system has changed but I doubt it

This probably is not good news for you but just thought I'd let you know :(

Funky G

@kildrought

i DO know what i am talking about. and my reasons are that i have been through the courts system for a few years now, and everytime i go into court to i learn more and more about the system.

and YES, quote me correctly, not just a few words of the start of a paragrapgh. read the paragrapgh again if you have to, to help YOU understand.

@sharrow

your partner does have rights. speak to your solicitor about it. let's say if your ex goes away for a few weeks and is un-contactable - you need a form signed or something else, for his consent, where do you stand?

I've asked all these questions before and i got these answers from my own solicitor and from a family support group with over 20 years experience in child matters.

PM me for the support group if you need it.

Sleepy

silly wrote: »

Thanks for that.
Things have got a bit out of hand here.
My husband has no issues with supporting me and my daughter if I should lose my job etc.
The issue is with my ex. Thinking he can not give me maintenance ( owes over 3 grand now) because I am married now, so my daughter is no longer his responsibility.

She's certainly still his responsibility but, purely financially speaking, the circumstances changed as soon as yourself and your daughter moved in with your husband so the amount of maintenance he should be paying will have reduced (since your financial position would be seen to have improved with respect to his since when the maintenance agreement was made).

silly

Sleepy wrote: »

silly wrote: »

Thanks for that.
Things have got a bit out of hand here.
My husband has no issues with supporting me and my daughter if I should lose my job etc.
The issue is with my ex. Thinking he can not give me maintenance ( owes over 3 grand now) because I am married now, so my daughter is no longer his responsibility.

She's certainly still his responsibility but, purely financially speaking, the circumstances changed as soon as yourself and your daughter moved in with your husband so the amount of maintenance he should be paying will have reduced (since your financial position would be seen to have improved with respect to his since when the maintenance agreement was made).

I'm aware of that. But he wants to pay NOTHING as I am now married.
I was only supposed to be getting €50 a week. But I was realistically getting about 100 a month when he felt like it. At the start of this yr I got €20 a month. And then nothing. His dole is more than my wages and he works cash in hand too. Holidays every year...etc.
I just don't want to fight with him over this after 8 years. And I don't want my husband dragged to court either.

Sleepy

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending him in the slightest, he absolutely has a duty towards his child and in no way can he shirk that because your circumstances have changed.

Unfortunately, I see no way for you to take this to court that wouldn't result in your husband's finances being part of the case unless you can come to an agreement with your ex as to the amount of maintenance he should be paying, tbh, what he's supposed to be giving you is little enough considering his illegal work. Perhaps you could use that as a negotiating tool?

"Either agree to €x per week as a court arranged payment where it comes out of your dole or I'll shop you to welfare".

I think whatever that X is will most likely have to be something lower than the previously agreed €50 in order for him to think he's "getting something out of the deal"* and not choose to fight you on it. What's the old line about a good compromise being one that neither side is happy with?

By the way: in the manner he's thinking where you being married would mean he has no responsibility towards his daughter's welfare, is he confusing your being married with your new husband having adopted his daughter? It's the only manner I can think of that would invalidate the requirement for him to pay maintenance. From the sounds of him though, it might not be something you want to bring up for fear of the upset it might cause your daughter.


*I can't understand anyone not wanting to support their child myself but trying to get into his head to help you find a resolution and even if the payment agreed to is €40 a week your child would be better off as you'd be getting 100% of the lower amount rather than an occasional payment of the old.

silly

Sleepy wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending him in the slightest, he absolutely has a duty towards his child and in no way can he shirk that because your circumstances have changed.

Unfortunately, I see no way for you to take this to court that wouldn't result in your husband's finances being part of the case unless you can come to an agreement with your ex as to the amount of maintenance he should be paying, tbh, what he's supposed to be giving you is little enough considering his illegal work. Perhaps you could use that as a negotiating tool?

"Either agree to €x per week as a court arranged payment where it comes out of your dole or I'll shop you to welfare".

I think whatever that X is will most likely have to be something lower than the previously agreed €50 in order for him to think he's "getting something out of the deal"* and not choose to fight you on it. What's the old line about a good compromise being one that neither side is happy with?

By the way: in the manner he's thinking where you being married would mean he has no responsibility towards his daughter's welfare, is he confusing your being married with your new husband having adopted his daughter? It's the only manner I can think of that would invalidate the requirement for him to pay maintenance. From the sounds of him though, it might not be something you want to bring up for fear of the upset it might cause your daughter.


*I can't understand anyone not wanting to support their child myself but trying to get into his head to help you find a resolution and even if the payment agreed to is €40 a week your child would be better off as you'd be getting 100% of the lower amount rather than an occasional payment of the old.

Thanks for that.
I have decided to go no further with it.
He has no interest in his daughter, I just wish I realised it sooner.
He is free to speak to her whenever he likes but chooses not to.
I arranged for us to meet a mediator a few months ago, even arranged to meet her nearer to his town, over an hours drive for me, and he didn't turn up. I had to pay her €90 still though.
I'm done with it.
Thanks for your advice.

campo

Funky G wrote: »

@kildrought

i DO know what i am talking about. and my reasons are that i have been through the courts system for a few years now, and everytime i go into court to i learn more and more about the system.

and YES, quote me correctly, not just a few words of the start of a paragrapgh. read the paragrapgh again if you have to, to help YOU understand.

@sharrow

your partner does have rights. speak to your solicitor about it. let's say if your ex goes away for a few weeks and is un-contactable - you need a form signed or something else, for his consent, where do you stand?

I've asked all these questions before and i got these answers from my own solicitor and from a family support group with over 20 years experience in child matters.

PM me for the support group if you need it.

Sorry Funky all of that is totally wrong im divorced now and my ex is married but I have joint custoday of children, The step dad has no legal rights what so ever when it comes to the children.
For an example if my partner passed away ( touch wood ) the kids would go to me and the step dad would not even have visitation rights ( now of course I would let him see them as they are close ) but my point being the step parent has no legal rights unless he adopts kids and he can only do this with bio dad permission