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What Has Martin McGuinness Ever Done For The Republic of Ireland?

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    #272
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I do think that part of the problem was that the majority in the South just weren't aware of the reality.

    I agree - but I also think the majority in NI have/had no idea of the reality 'down here' - McG seems to share that lack of awareness - it is all very well to state he will be a president for 32 counties, when he has yet to discuss the reality of life in the majority of those counties in anything but the vaguest terms. He is running on his record in 6 of those 32 - yet the position he seeks is to be head of the other 26. I am not questioning his record in NI - I'm saying he has no comparable record in the actual jurisdiction he is running for election in - and comes across as disinterested in life in the 'south'.


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    #273
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I agree - but I also think the majority in NI have/had no idea of the reality 'down here' - McG seems to share that lack of awareness - it is all very well to state he will be a president for 32 counties, when he has yet to discuss the reality of life in the majority of those counties in anything but the vaguest terms. He is running on his record in 6 of those 32 - yet the position he seeks is to be head of the other 26. I am not questioning his record in NI - I'm saying he has no comparable record in the actual jurisdiction he is running for election in - and comes across as disinterested in life in the 'south'.

    I don't think you can say that to be honest. SF are very engaged in the Dail and constitutional politics here. I think if the media shifted it's ridiculous focus and hidden agenda we might get people like you some answers. But I think I may be dreaming there.


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    #274
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I don't think you can say that to be honest. SF are very engaged in the Dail and constitutional politics here. I think if the media shifted it's ridiculous focus and hidden agenda we might get people like you some answers. But I think I may be dreaming there.

    McGuinness isn't a SF candidate - remember?


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    #275
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    McGuinness isn't a SF candidate - remember?

    Why are you so concerned with his SF past then? :D


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    #276
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I don't think you can say that to be honest. SF are very engaged in the Dail and constitutional politics here. I think if the media shifted it's ridiculous focus and hidden agenda we might get people like you some answers. But I think I may be dreaming there.

    Ah - but McGuinness is not a SF candidate now is he - he is running as an independent ;). Even if he were - I am not looking at the Labour Party's track record when considering Higgins...so why should I look at SF's when looking at McGuinness? The presidency is, after all, meant to be above party politics :p. I can only assess McG on his track record in the 26 counties - the reality is he doesn't have one...


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    #277
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Why are you so concerned with his SF past then? :D

    I'm not remotely interested in his SF past - it's his IRA past that most people have concerns about. And if he's not a SF candidate, you can't really claim that the SF role in the republic is anything to do with him, can you? He's running on his own record.


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    #278
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I can only assess McG on his track record in the 26 counties - the reality is he doesn't have one...

    Except for transporting explosives.


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    #279
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    I'm not remotely interested in his SF past - it's his IRA past that most people have concerns about. And if he's not a SF candidate, you can't really claim that the SF role in the republic is anything to do with him, can you? He's running on his own record.

    But...but ...he's not running as an IRA man. :rolleyes:


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    #280
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Ah - but McGuinness is not a SF candidate now is he - he is running as an independent ;). Even if he were - I am not looking at the Labour Party's track record when considering Higgins...so why should I look at SF's when looking at McGuinness? The presidency is, after all, meant to be above party politics :p. I can only assess McG on his track record in the 26 counties - the reality is he doesn't have one...

    So what has MDH contributed outside the Labour Party? Poems?


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    #281
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    jank wrote: »
    Actually it is the reverse that is the case. If you call someone say a rapist, then you have to put forward evidence to base your case.
    I can call your mother a witch and 500 years ago that accusation alone would probably have been sufficient to have her burned at the stake. Now we have a court of law that one has to submit evidence.

    I hear all these things about Martin McGuinness but no evidence from anyone in the media or here.

    pity the same rules of evidence were not used for some of their victims


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    #282
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    But...but ...he's not running as an IRA man. :rolleyes:

    He is a Provo running for president. It's part of his personal record. A part he'd like us to forget admittedly, but there you go.


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    #283
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    He is a Provo running for president. It's part of his personal record. A part he'd like us to forget admittedly, but there you go.

    And his membership of SF is not part of his personal record?
    Running with the hare and hunting with the hounds Alastair???


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    #284
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    And his membership of SF is not part of his personal record?
    Running with the hare and hunting with the hounds Alastair???

    He said he's not a SF candidate. I'm simply reminding you where people's concerns regarding him lie.


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    #285
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    jank wrote: »
    My 2nd cousin is a priest, he belongs to an organisation that oversaw the abuse and rape of children. Should I then say that my cousin is a rapist? Like I have no proof that he did but he belongs to the catholic church. Guilt by association seems to be de jour on boards.ie and the wider media.
    In 1973, McGuinness was convicted by the Special Criminal Court of possession of over 100kilos of explosives and around 5,000 rounds of ammo. He spent six months in prison.

    In 1974 he was convicted of membership of the IRA and again sentenced to Portlaoise.

    So, we're not exactly talking about a comparable issue. If your second cousin was arrested and charged of the crime, then it's reasonable to deduce that he was involved.


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    #286
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    He said he's not a SF candidate. I'm simply reminding you where people's concerns regarding him lie.

    Yeh...you said.... 'he's a Provo running for President'!


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    #287
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Yeh...you said.... 'he's a Provo running for President'!

    That wasn't too difficult now, was it?


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    #288
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    That wasn't too difficult now, was it?

    :D Some votes aren't worth having.
    Martin's loss is David's gain!:rolleyes:


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    #289
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    'Living under suspicion
    Putting up with the hatred and fear in their eyes
    You can see that you're nothing but a murderer
    In their eyes, we're nothing but a bunch of murderers ', as Paul Brady says.

    The Strabane man had a few things to say about people trying to bomb their way to freedom too.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #290
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,317 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I wonder if Martin is elected president of Ireland and he goes on a trade mission with a government minister and there's an offer of jobs for Ireland but from his contacts in the NI assembly he knows these jobs are also on offer to NI what would he do?

    Go with his old constituency or his new constituency?


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    #291
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    K-9 wrote: »
    The Strabane man had a few things to say about people trying to bomb their way to freedom too.

    He changed his viewpoint....shock horror!


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    #292
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    He changed his viewpoint....shock horror!

    I don't think Paul Brady changed his viewpoint at all - he was no friend to apologists for violence at any point.


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    #293
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    I don't think Paul Brady changed his viewpoint at all - he was no friend to apologists for violence at any point.

    Arthur McBride?

    But then maybe he was one of the deniers, happy to sing about it, but of course, :eek: 'it has nothing to do with me'!


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    #294
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Arthur McBride?

    But then maybe he was one of the deniers, happy to sing about it, but of course, :eek: 'it has nothing to do with me'!

    What's the 'it' you think he's singing about?
    “Up here we sacrifice our children
    To feed the worn-out dreams of yesterday “


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    #295
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    What's the 'it' you think he's singing about?

    Way off topic. But from his earlier career, the word of Arthur McBride.


    And then Arthur and I we soon drew our hods
    And we scarce gave them time for to draw their own blades
    When a trusty shillelagh came over their heads
    And bade them take that as fair warning

    And their old rusty rapiers that hung by their side
    We flung them as far as we could in the tide
    "Now take them out, Divils!", cried Arthur McBride
    "And temper their edge in the morning".
    And the little wee drummer we flattened his pow
    And we made a football of his rowdeydowdow
    Threw it in the tide for to rock and to row
    And bade it a tedious returning

    And we having no money, paid them off in cracks
    And we paid no respect to their two bloody backs
    For we lathered them there like a pair of wet sacks
    And left them for dead in the morning.


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    #296
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Way off topic. But from his earlier career, the word of Arthur McBride.


    And then Arthur and I we soon drew our hods
    And we scarce gave them time for to draw their own blades
    When a trusty shillelagh came over their heads
    And bade them take that as fair warning

    And their old rusty rapiers that hung by their side
    We flung them as far as we could in the tide
    "Now take them out, Divils!", cried Arthur McBride
    "And temper their edge in the morning".
    And the little wee drummer we flattened his pow
    And we made a football of his rowdeydowdow
    Threw it in the tide for to rock and to row
    And bade it a tedious returning

    And we having no money, paid them off in cracks
    And we paid no respect to their two bloody backs
    For we lathered them there like a pair of wet sacks
    And left them for dead in the morning.

    You do realise he didn't write that - it's a traditional number, and it has nothing to do with republicanism?


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    #297
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    You do realise he didn't write that - it's a traditional number, and it has nothing to do with republicanism?

    :D:D 'They made me sing it your honour'!


    You need to allow people to change Alastair. Swallow hard and try it yourself. Very redemptive.


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    #298
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    :D:D 'They made me sing it your honour'!


    You need to allow people to change Alastair. Swallow hard and try it yourself. Very redemptive.

    You need to acknowledge that Paul Brady never supported the IRA - he was consistently and vocally opposed to violence. He sang lots of other traditional songs about pixies and seductive gypsys too - but that doesn't mean he advocated either - look to his own writing to see a consistent line against political violence - and the damage it caused for the people of NI.


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    #299
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    You need to acknowledge that Paul Brady never supported the IRA

    Where did I say that? God you are getting kinda desperate on two threads.


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    #300
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Where did I say that? God you are getting kinda desperate on two threads.

    I see the desperation alright:
    Happyman wrote:
    Originally Posted by K-9
    The Strabane man had a few things to say about people trying to bomb their way to freedom too.

    He changed his viewpoint....shock horror!


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    #301
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    I see the desperation alright:

    So all people of Republican persuasion where in The IRA? :D:D:D:D


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