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What Has Martin McGuinness Ever Done For The Republic of Ireland?

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    #422
    hangon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 374 ✭✭hangon


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    "Taken up arms" against those attacking them - maybe. I wouldn't condemn anyone for doing that.

    But that's not what the IRA did.
    Well what did they do?


    Ah yes, isn't it inevitable that people make up statments like the above every single time.

    Show me where I said ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY to that effect

    You can't - because I didn't.[

    That was not directed at you Liam,its just a pain reading misinformed stuff in general.
    there is nothing black or white,no angels or saints about the 'Troubles'
    The fact is that the Crown isn't running for election. If they were, I'd point at Iraq and a lot of other atrocities. But whatever about the general point, lying about the fact that the above has been said or alluded to is pathetic and indicative of the blinkered siege mindset.

    No but Martin is ,and i wish the Crown had realised that free and fair Elections for the minority in the six Counties should have been erm suggested to an English Govt a long time ago.



    like McGuinness and others - join a murder organisation

    When he joined he saw no alternative to murder,just like many of the Crown force's could not see an alternative.
    SF always said they were a 32 County Org so it is hardly a contradiction in terms for him to run.


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    #423
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    hangon wrote: »
    Well what did they do?

    Fought against and murdered their own countrymen.
    hangon wrote: »
    That was not directed at you Liam,its just a pain reading misinformed stuff in general.

    Believe me, that goes both ways.....there's been a few times on here that I've really despaired at the biased attack mode, where anything is twisted and dodged and given the traditional double-speak treatment.
    hangon wrote: »
    there is nothing black or white,no angels or saints about the 'Troubles'

    No. But we've had enough dodgy characters in power in this state, thanks very much.
    hangon wrote: »
    No but Martin is ,and i wish the Crown had realised that free and fair Elections for the minority in the six Counties should have been erm suggested to an English Govt a long time ago.

    That has nothing to do with the presidential election for this state.
    hangon wrote: »
    When he joined he saw no alternative to murder

    He doesn't even call it that. And anyone who sees "no alternative" to murder isn't fit to be president. A house thief might "see no alternative" to murder if cornered - would you excuse them ?
    hangon wrote: »
    SF always said they were a 32 County Org so it is hardly a contradiction in terms for him to run.

    No idea what that's about - McAleese was from the North too, and I had no problem with her, because she was never involved in murder.


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    #424
    hangon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 374 ✭✭hangon


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Fought against and murdered their own countrymen.
    again when you say their own Countrymen,well who were they?the protestant Majority in NI who were created after the treaty by slicing up Ireland in such a way that People loyal to the Crown would always be in the majority, or the entire population of the UK?


    Believe me, that goes both ways.....there's been a few times on here that I've really despaired at the biased attack mode, where anything is twisted and dodged and given the traditional double-speak treatment.

    not sure if you are being sarcastic at me there but i am thrilled that the 'Troubles' in general have ended even though i would like Ireland to be united,i prefer the peace


    No. But we've had enough dodgy characters in power in this state, thanks very much.
    at least now i know for sure You are not Bertie!:)


    That has nothing to do with the presidential election for this state.
    as the candidates have found out running for the office does not stop at the 26 Counties!,even if possibly it should

    He doesn't even call it that. And anyone who sees "no alternative" to murder isn't fit to be president.has been deeply devastated or insane,Mc is not insane

    FYP

    No idea what that's about - McAleese was from the North too, and I had no problem with her, because she was never involved in murder.

    No her family were nearly murdered by Para's on the Protestant side,they had to leave their home as a result.

    it was always more likely that teens from poor backgrounds would stay despite the attempted ethnic cleansing that was being carried out as the blind eye was turned by those in charge of law and order in the six Counties.


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    #425
    Pat D. Almighty
    Registered Users Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Pat D. Almighty


    The handbags on these discussion would make a show of the dance floor in Copperface Jacks.


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    #426
    OMD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    I think the funny thing about all this is how poorly MMG is doing. Based on the latest poll he is looking like finishing 4th. Just ahead of 3 independents. All this talk of SF being in second place, Martin being the only statesman yet the people look like giving him a massive fcuk off. Fantastic.


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    #427
    hangon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 374 ✭✭hangon


    Pat D. Almighty wrote: »
    The handbags on these discussion would make a show of the dance floor in Copperface Jacks.
    No harm in some humour even in politics!
    OMD wrote: »
    I think the funny thing about all this is how poorly MMG is doing. Based on the latest poll he is looking like finishing 4th. Just ahead of 3 independents. All this talk of SF being in second place, Martin being the only statesman yet the people look like giving him a massive fcuk off. Fantastic.

    Fantastic for who exactly?


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    #428
    OMD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    hangon wrote: »

    Fantastic for who exactly?
    the people of this island north & south


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    #429
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,665 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Yes. I will place my utmost trust in media polls. they are always so very accurate. - I assume you share that belief?
    OMD wrote: »
    I think the funny thing about all this is how poorly MMG is doing. Based on the latest poll he is looking like finishing 4th. Just ahead of 3 independents. All this talk of SF being in second place, Martin being the only statesman yet the people look like giving him a massive fcuk off. Fantastic.


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    #430
    hangon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 374 ✭✭hangon


    OMD wrote: »
    the people of this island north & south

    Living proof that propaganda works all the time!
    Does anybody really believe that Paisly then Robinson would have worked with MMG if they were not totally satisfied that he had rejected violence?
    what should we do.never accept that People change?
    they were getting their info via our secret service,UK secret service and US Secret service.
    hate to repeat what many have said across the forums but history is littered with Statesmen who were formally called terrorists by some other state(even their own)

    BTW i wish more were in favour of M D Higgins,now there is and always was a Statesman.


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    #431
    Andrew49
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Andrew49


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    I suppose it could be said that by making the peace process work so well in the Six Counties and working so smoothly with Ian Paisley and Peter Robinson, Martin McGuinness has done quite a lot of good for all of Ireland. Things are certainly better everywhere on the island compared with the situation while the violence was still going on.:)

    Apart from winning the Eurovision song contest and in the process making a good deal of money for herself in the course of her subsequent career, what has Dana done for Ireland, for that matter?:D

    I can hardly wait to see how she handles the interview on TV3 later this evening. It will certainly be interesting to see how she explains herself.

    According to this article (and I have no way of knowing whether or not it is true) http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Danas-brother-accused-of-molesting-sisters-child-131838148.html her brother-in-law accused her (Dana's) brother of molesting his (the brother-in-law's) child. That is a very serious allegation indeed.:eek:

    Yet Dana complained about the media a few days ago and spoke of a family disagreement that had subsequently been settled. The question she ought to be asked now is how it was settled. Did her brother-in-law (called Stein) withdraw the allegation? And if he did, why did he make such a false allegation in the first place?

    And why did Dana not either report the matter to the police since child sex abuse was claimed, or else have Stein brought to book for having made such a serious and unfounded accusation?:cool:

    The allegations themselves are not defamatory of Dana, though they could be described as showing a certain dysfunctional quality in the family circle particularly if the allegations were not handled properly - and not just to protect the name of the accused but also from the standpoint of the child in alleged danger! There's no doubt in my mind that Dana's upset at these vile allegations are more to do with the fact that the story will deflect away from her own election campaign - I suppose that could be described as the narcissism with her (and the other candidates too) but, still though, child protection is a heck of a lot more important than the impression Dana is trying to impart to potential supporters: devoutly Catholic and pro-family.

    McGuinness himself is the most interesting candidate in the race. His journey from street activist fighting sectarianism and bigotry using whatever tools were to hand, to sharing power with Paisley and Robinson and becoming an opponent of violence.


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    #432
    OMD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    hangon wrote: »
    Living proof that propaganda works all the time!
    Does anybody really believe that Paisly then Robinson would have worked with MMG if they were not totally satisfied that he had rejected violence?
    what should we do.never accept that People change?
    they were getting their info via our secret service,UK secret service and US Secret service.
    hate to repeat what many have said across the forums but history is littered with Statesmen who were formally called terrorists by some other state(even their own)
    .

    The vast majority of people in this Island, north and south do not want SF in power. 80+% of people do not vote SF. The reason they are in power in the North is not because they are popular, anymore than the reason the Lib Dems are in power in the UK is because they are popular (although they do better in UK than SF on the island of Ireland). The vast majority of Unionists do not want to share power with SF. They do so because they have no real choice. We have a choice and are going to tell SF to fcuk off by an even bigger majority than the 70+% who do so in Northern Ireland. In fact, the one thing that actually unites this Island is that we all hate Sinn Fein.


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    #433
    cardwizzard
    Registered Users Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭cardwizzard


    :eek:
    OMD wrote: »
    The vast majority of people in this Island, north and south do not want SF in power. 80+% of people do not vote SF. The reason they are in power in the North is not because they are popular, anymore than the reason the Lib Dems are in power in the UK is because they are popular (although they do better in UK than SF on the island of Ireland). The vast majority of Unionists do not want to share power with SF. They do so because they have no real choice. We have a choice and are going to tell SF to fcuk off by an even bigger majority than the 70+% who do so in Northern Ireland. In fact, the one thing that actually unites this Island is that we all hate Sinn Fein.


    80% of people don't vote for Labour:eek:
    80% of people don't vote FF:eek:
    80% of people didn't vote for the PD'S:eek:

    Your comments are totally worthless. And we don't all hate SF as you put it. Democratic are we?


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    #434
    OMD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    cardwizzard wrote: »
    :eek:


    80% of people don't vote for Labour:eek:
    80% of people don't vote FF:eek:
    80% of people didn't vote for the PD'S:eek:

    Your comments are totally worthless. And we don't all hate SF as you put it. Democratic are we?
    The implication given by SF voters is that unionists accept them and so we should. The reality is that the vast majority of people in NI do not accept SF and the only reason they are in power is because of the way the system is set up. Opinion polls (and actual elections backs this up) in Ireland put SF as the most unpopular party (ie the party people would least likely vote for). I would think at a guess with a unionist majority in the north that SF would easily be the most unpopular party in the north and hence on the island as a whole. Perhaps hate was too strong a word for it. Let's just say the majority of people on this island dislike SF intensely.


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    #435
    blahfckingblah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭blahfckingblah


    OMD wrote: »
    the people of this island north & south
    why?


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    #436
    OMD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    blahfckingblah wrote: »
    why?

    Why what?


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    #437
    cardwizzard
    Registered Users Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭cardwizzard


    OMD wrote: »
    The implication given by SF voters is that unionists accept them and so we should. The reality is that the vast majority of people in NI do not accept SF and the only reason they are in power is because of the way the system is set up. Opinion polls (and actual elections backs this up) in Ireland put SF as the most unpopular party (ie the party people would least likely vote for). I would think at a guess with a unionist majority in the north that SF would easily be the most unpopular party in the north and hence on the island as a whole. Perhaps hate was too strong a word for it. Let's just say the majority of people on this island dislike SF intensely.

    I get what you are trying to say. However 10% of the vote went to SF in the last election. Something like 220000 first preference votes. So quite a significant minority. SF seem to be moving up wards in the general opinion of people( no evidence) and may well be more popular than Labour or FF at the moment. Of course all this is worthless, its polling day that counts.

    Up North they do nearly 3x better. Vast majority of people do support SF in the North.( Nationalist view point). And they way it is set up is because Unionists abused their power for years.




    *stats ,figures can be manipulated to fit any view point.


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    #438
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    cardwizzard wrote: »
    I get what you are trying to say. However 10% of the vote went to SF in the last election. Something like 220000 first preference votes. So quite a significant minority. SF seem to be moving up wards in the general opinion of people( no evidence) and may well be more popular than Labour or FF at the moment. Of course all this is worthless, its polling day that counts.

    Up North they do nearly 3x better. Vast majority of people do support SF in the North.( Nationalist view point). And they way it is set up is because Unionists abused their power for years.




    *stats ,figures can be manipulated to fit any view point.

    Significant minorities don't count in OMD's world, they don't deserve consideration that others get. 'Keep them down where they belong' kinda thinking. What situation does that remind you of?:rolleyes:


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    #439
    KELTICKNIGHTT
    Registered Users Posts: 3,799 ✭✭✭KELTICKNIGHTT


    blahfckingblah wrote: »
    when who answers what?

    check the post you answered for ;)


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    #440
    KELTICKNIGHTT
    Registered Users Posts: 3,799 ✭✭✭KELTICKNIGHTT


    Pat D. Almighty wrote: »
    I've already answered that question. Search back through my posts if you're that adamant on getting an answer from me.

    then you have no problem answering it again


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    #441
    KELTICKNIGHTT
    Registered Users Posts: 3,799 ✭✭✭KELTICKNIGHTT


    Pat D. Almighty wrote: »
    I've already answered that question. Search back through my posts if you're that adamant on getting an answer from me.

    then you have no problem answering it again save us going through all your rants


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    #442
    Pat D. Almighty
    Registered Users Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Pat D. Almighty


    KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »
    then you have no problem answering it again save us going through all your rants

    Unlike yourself, I don't like repeating myself, especially to people with agendas. I've answered your question. You may not like the answer, but that's your problem.


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    #443
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,317 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Pat D. Almighty wrote: »
    Unlike yourself, I don't like repeating myself unless it suits my agenda, especially to people with other agendas. I've answered your question. You may not like the answer, but that's your problem.

    FYP


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    #444
    Pat D. Almighty
    Registered Users Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Pat D. Almighty


    phog wrote: »
    FYP

    No idea what that means...


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    #445
    FUNKY LOVER
    Closed Accounts Posts: 905 ✭✭✭FUNKY LOVER


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    hangon wrote: »
    Well what did they do?

    Fought against and murdered their own countrymen.
    hangon wrote: »
    That was not directed at you Liam,its just a pain reading misinformed stuff in general.

    Believe me, that goes both ways.....there's been a few times on here that I've really despaired at the biased attack mode, where anything is twisted and dodged and given the traditional double-speak treatment.
    hangon wrote: »
    there is nothing black or white,no angels or saints about the 'Troubles'

    No. But we've had enough dodgy characters in power in this state, thanks very much.
    hangon wrote: »
    No but Martin is ,and i wish the Crown had realised that free and fair Elections for the minority in the six Counties should have been erm suggested to an English Govt a long time ago.

    That has nothing to do with the presidential election for this state.
    hangon wrote: »
    When he joined he saw no alternative to murder

    He doesn't even call it that. And anyone who sees "no alternative" to murder isn't fit to be president. A house thief might "see no alternative" to murder if cornered - would you excuse them ?
    hangon wrote: »
    SF always said they were a 32 County Org so it is hardly a contradiction in terms for him to run.

    No idea what that's about - McAleese was from the North too, and I had no problem with her, because she was never involved in murder.
    If someone burned your family out of their house what would you do?

    Grow a set chief.


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    #446
    Pat D. Almighty
    Registered Users Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Pat D. Almighty


    Mary McAleese wanted to join the IRA, but he father wouldn't allow her.

    Fact.


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    #447
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,317 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Pat D. Almighty wrote: »
    Mary McAleese wanted to join the IRA, but he father wouldn't allow her.

    Fact.

    Grasping at even bigger straws.


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    #448
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    FUNKY LOVER wrote: »
    If someone burned your family out of their house what would you do?

    Whatever it was, it would be targetted at those who burned my family and not at innocent third parties.
    FUNKY LOVER wrote: »
    Grow a set chief.

    I have a set. I just don't use them to think and reason with.


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    #449
    Pat D. Almighty
    Registered Users Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Pat D. Almighty


    phog wrote: »

    Grasping at even bigger straws.

    Making words appear bigger doesn't make you right. I was responding to someone who asked why Mary McAleese didn't get involved in the republican movement even though her house was burned down.
    Your agenda against me is sad. Should you not be watching the X-Factor with the rest of the sheep?


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    #450
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Pat D. Almighty wrote: »
    Mary McAleese wanted to join the IRA, but he father wouldn't allow her.

    Fact.

    Says a lot about what proper parenting and direction does......he points her in the right direction and she ends up as president.

    If only McGun's dad had been as forward-thinking and capable of guidance.


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    #451
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,317 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Pat D. Almighty wrote: »
    Making words appear bigger doesn't make you right. I was responding to someone who asked why Mary McAleese didn't get involved in the republican movement even though her house was burned down.
    Your agenda against me is sad. Should you not be watching the X-Factor with the rest of the sheep?

    I've no agenda against you. If you cant take the cut and thrust of this forum you can always stop posting garbage.

    Just because a poster puts the word fact in their post doesn't actually make it fact. Fact.


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