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What Has Martin McGuinness Ever Done For The Republic of Ireland?

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    #62
    cardwizzard
    Registered Users Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭cardwizzard


    mike65 wrote: »
    Liz has far more potential power then any Irish President.


    Well thats debatable. Must be nice to be born into such a role:rolleyes:


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    #63
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    du Maurier wrote: »
    Clearly you don't sound like a person satisfied with anything. Pontificating from your exalted pedestal of pedantry:) Could be tongue-twister, that one..

    Do you have any concern for accuracy at all then ? This is not a case of pedantry.And the posters that are saying so are the very ones one would think would know better.

    Try checking before replying next time


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    #64
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    nothing.


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    #65
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    spider guardian wrote: »
    As Sinn Féin's chief negotiator at the Good Friday Agreement talks I would say he played a substantial role in bringing it to fruition. It could hardly have came about without Sinn Féin's agreement but that is not to dismiss the contribution of others. But remember that efforts at reconciliation did not simply stop when the agreement was signed, the Unionists and Nationalists still had to build and maintain relationships, there were many on either side that did not want that to happen. McGuinness is seen on the Unionist side as being very fair, it takes skill and character to reach out to the other side the way McGuinness did.

    Given that McGuinness is campaigning on the line that he wants to 'build a new republic' then if he is elected he will have a mandate to at least bring about dialogue, maybe not directly himself but having a Shinner in the Áras will certainly stimulate debate on the issue.
    It can be said that the GFA and peace would not have come about without the support and agreement of sinn fein but I would say that sinn fein and the IRA and any other organisation involved in the troubles would not have survived unless they climbed on board as it was something ordinary people on both sides of the conflict wanted and something they were collectively powerful enough to ensure happened even without the support of the gunmen.

    If McGuinness wants to talk about changing the constitution I feel he should not be seeking election as the president must remain impartial, and I don't believe that would be possible for him because of his 32county unified Ireland agenda.


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    #66
    Geekness1234
    Registered Users Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Geekness1234


    Absolutely nothing,never has and never will.


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    #67
    FionnRua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 56 ✭✭FionnRua


    Well if Gay Mitchell is to be believed MMcG does not recognise this country and refers to it as the 26 counties. He therefore falls into the camp occupied by some of the posters here who also dont seem to care about the name of the country.
    As for my opinion as to what he has done for this country - He has brought huge amounts of pain and despair to a lot of the citizens of this state.


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    #68
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    When he says everything does that include remaining within the 26 county state if the Government decide he is not to travel abroad?
    The 6 counties are not considered 'abroad'. The president would never be asked to stay out of any part of Ireland (well, ****holes aside).


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    #69
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    FionnRua wrote: »
    He has brought huge amounts of pain and despair to a lot of the citizens of this state.
    He was outdone by DeValera. How many terms did he have.

    One man's terrorist, another's freedom fighter, and all that.


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    #70
    barrmur
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭barrmur


    n97 mini wrote: »
    The 6 counties are not considered 'abroad'. The president would never be asked to stay out of any part of Ireland (well, ****holes aside).

    Abroad - "Beyond the boundaries of ones country".

    Of course the North of Ireland is abroad. Different rulers, different government, different currency. The president is the president of the "26 counties". How can someone be the president of two different countries, one of which don't even get a vote on the matter.?


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    #71
    maxer68
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭maxer68


    there's one thing he hasn't done in the northern part of the island and that is to stop the sf/ira types leaving bombs on the window sills of ordinary decent hardworking eastern europeans. - Yet another one tonight.

    their crime is they are not sf/ira supporters - it is a huge problem in working class republican areas and SF frankly don't give a toss about it cos the Polish & Lithuanians don't have a vote.


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    #72
    coffee_cake
    Registered Users Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    No more discussion about what the country is called please, we all know where we are talking about and the subject of this thread is MMG


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    #73
    OMD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    n97 mini wrote: »
    The 6 counties are not considered 'abroad'.
    Yet in this country Northern Ireland it is the responsibility of the Department of Foreign Affairs.


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    #74
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    maxer68 wrote: »
    there's one thing he hasn't done in the northern part of the island and that is to stop the sf/ira types leaving bombs on the window sills of ordinary decent hardworking eastern europeans. - Yet another one tonight.

    their crime is they are not sf/ira supporters - it is a huge problem in working class republican areas and SF frankly don't give a toss about it cos the Polish & Lithuanians don't have a vote.


    Can you show a link to that.


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    #75
    barrmur
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭barrmur


    realies wrote: »
    Can you show a link to that.

    Can you show a link which proves MMG is no longer in the IRA? Man you love your "links" and "sources".


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    #76
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    maxer68 wrote: »
    there's one thing he hasn't done in the northern part of the island and that is to stop the sf/ira types leaving bombs on the window sills of ordinary decent hardworking eastern europeans. - Yet another one tonight.

    their crime is they are not sf/ira supporters - it is a huge problem in working class republican areas and SF frankly don't give a toss about it cos the Polish & Lithuanians don't have a vote.
    barrmur wrote: »
    Can you show a link which proves MMG is no longer in the IRA? Man you love your "links" and "sources".

    Man Love the way you cant show your sources, if it happened tonight it should be know problem to you.


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    #77
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    maxer68 wrote: »
    there's one thing he hasn't done in the northern part of the island and that is to stop the sf/ira types leaving bombs on the window sills of ordinary decent hardworking eastern europeans. - Yet another one tonight.

    their crime is they are not sf/ira supporters - it is a huge problem in working class republican areas and SF frankly don't give a toss about it cos the Polish & Lithuanians don't have a vote.

    Wrong with a capital W. It was Loyalists. Love how this poster jumps to conclusions.

    http://www.u.tv/News/Polish-couple-targeted-in-attack/1d6b8618-8050-4d13-b2f8-6e59eda31b66
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15271940


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    #78
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    gurramok wrote: »
    Wrong with a capital W. It was Loyalists. Love how this poster jumps to conclusions.

    http://www.u.tv/News/Polish-couple-targeted-in-attack/1d6b8618-8050-4d13-b2f8-6e59eda31b66
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15271940


    I knew that ;) It is well know fact that loyalists carry out the maority of racist attacks there using the polish & other eastern peoples catholic religion as a reason.


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    #79
    Mucco
    Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Mucco


    spider guardian wrote: »
    I would put it to you that his part in delivering the Good Friday Agreement benefited people on both sides of the border. Peace on the island is not to be taken for granted.

    If it wasn't for the IRA, we wouldn't have needed a peace process.

    Imagine two candidates.

    A joins a violent organisation, encourages bombings shootings etc. Eventually realises this doesn't work, but manages to use this threat to gain political advantage. He stops the bombings and is therefore hailed as a hero of the peace process.

    B doesn't join, doesn't encourage violence, therefore can't have an effect on the peace process and doesn't get hailed as a hero.

    Which is more deserving of our approval?


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    #80
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Mucco wrote: »
    If it wasn't for the IRA, we wouldn't have needed a peace process.

    Imagine two candidates.

    A joins a violent organisation, encourages bombings shootings etc. Eventually realises this doesn't work, but manages to use this threat to gain political advantage. He stops the bombings and is therefore hailed as a hero of the peace process.

    B doesn't join, doesn't encourage violence, therefore can't have an affect on the peace process and doesn't get hailed as a hero.

    Which is more deserving of our approval?
    B is the only real man and deserves a vote and deserves to be heard. A should be ignored till they go away.


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    #81
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    Muco wrote: »
    If it wasn't for the IRA, we wouldn't have needed a peace process.

    Imagine two candidates.

    A joins a violent organisation, encourages bombings shootings etc. Eventually realises this doesn't work, but manages to use this threat to gain political advantage. He stops the bombings and is therefore hailed as a hero of the peace process.

    B doesn't join, doesn't encourage violence, therefore can't have an affect on the peace process and doesn't get hailed as a hero.

    Which is more deserving of our approval?

    So what your saying is the IRA started the conflict in the North, Good revision there.



    foggy_lad wrote: »
    B is the only real man and deserves a vote and deserves to be heard. A should be ignored till they go away.


    That's what the loyalists /unionists wished for before it wont be happening this time.


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    #82
    blahfckingblah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭blahfckingblah


    Mucco wrote: »
    If it wasn't for the IRA, we wouldn't have needed a peace process.
    As the ancient proverb goes "Facepalm". That is an over simplified inaccurate version. The Troubles were not caused by one incident and cannot be blamed on one organisation, it was born from social unrest, inequality, sectarianism and failures in the political and policing systems. Even if you were to try pin it on the IRA the UVF were established and functioning before the IRA (thats not to blame the UVF solely).

    It could also be argued that the troubles were part of a long series of conflicts in Ireland all part of a chain reaction all stemming from intrusion into this land.

    Just pondering out loud haha


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    #83
    Duke Leonal Felmet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭Duke Leonal Felmet


    barrmur wrote: »
    realies wrote: »
    Can you show a link to that.

    Can you show a link which proves MMG is no longer in the IRA? Man you love your "links" and "sources".

    Yeah, you can prove anything with facts.


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    #84
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    realies wrote: »
    So what your saying is the IRA started the conflict in the North

    I didn't see that poster claim any such thing ? Why are you making things up ?


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    #85
    blahfckingblah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭blahfckingblah


    Actually the story of zacchaeus comes to mind with the A and B thing ;), don't worry I'm gonna log of now.


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    #86
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    I didn't see that poster claim any such thing ? Why are you making things up ?


    As you said to me on another thread what buisness is it of yours or something simlar with them lines.


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    #87
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    realies wrote: »
    As you said to me on another thread,whats it got to do with you or something simlar.

    You got involved in an off-topic spat (one that I shouldn't have even let myself be dragged into)

    This is completely different, as it's 100% on-topic, but if you want to use the above as a cop-out of not answering the question, then fire away.


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    #88
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    Not coping out of anything just tired of reading your big high moral ground,if only the world was like what you say it should be, well its not and never will be.


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    #89
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    realies wrote: »
    Not coping out of anything just tired of reading your big high moral ground,if only the world was like what you say it should be, well its not and never will be.

    You made a claim about a poster above that was false. That has nothing whatsoever to do with my high moral ground.

    Are you going to admit that they never claimed what you said ? Or are you going to keep on deflecting and dodging and hope that no-one notices ?

    Either explain where they claimed that, or retract it.


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    #90
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    That poster said that if we had not the IRA we wouldn't need the peace process as in implying that it was Just the IRA who was committing/starting the violence.


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    #91
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    realies wrote: »
    That poster said that if we had not the IRA we wouldn't need the peace process as in implying that it was Just the IRA who was committing/starting the violence.

    That's not how I read it.

    If the IRA hadn't targetted innocent civilians then the "troubles" would have been completely different, and the peace process wouldn't have been between two terrorist sides.

    Some intervention would have been required, but there would have been no bombs and arms dumps and international decommissions boards or anything of the sort.

    And - strangely enough - they might have been respected for standing up for human rights and fighting their oppressors, instead of being reviled for murdering innocent civilians; there certainly wouldn't have been any objection from me regarding McGuinness running for election if he had chosen that route.


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