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What Has Martin McGuinness Ever Done For The Republic of Ireland?

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    #872
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    OMD wrote: »
    Sectarian and nationalist killings haven't stopped. Merely greatly reduced.
    Very revealing answer! Is that the only type of killings you have noticed? :D
    OMD wrote: »
    But they don't share power. Haven't all the SF people been saying we can't judge Martin McG's record in the northern assembly because it has no powers? Also are you really saying sharing power was an aspiration of nationalists?

    It certainly was an aspiration of 'my recent ancestors', who as I said earlier, are SDLP voters.


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    #873
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    maccored wrote: »
    who are the 'IRA apologists on here' if you dont mind me asking?

    People who can't condemn the likes of Proxy bombs without the usual whataboutery and excuses, simple. It's like reading an IRA propaganda manual at times.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #874
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    K-9 wrote: »
    People who can't condemn the likes of Proxy bombs without the usual whataboutery and excuses, simple. It's like reading an IRA propaganda manual at times.

    You mean 'realists' who see the politics of condemnation as futile and the preserve of high moral grounders?


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    #875
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    They are fond of rhetorical questions to avoid condemning IRA actions unreservedly.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #876
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    The IRA was trying to bomb people into a United Ireland in the 50s. And they are still trying to do it today. A RIRA man has been sent to jail for 12 years for trying to smuggle weapons into Ulster to carry on the vicious IRA campaign which involves killing PSNI officers.

    It will be interesting if Martin Mcguinness will comment on this latest case.

    His contesting the presidency in the ' Free State'is in itself an enormous statement and certainly one that says taking the path of peace allows for truly extraordinary things.


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    #877
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    maccored wrote: »
    not of the same nature than caused the rise of the provos in the north.

    Inequality is people at the bottom of the heap, people being screwed over by those that govern. The power of a furious people if harnessed could be a dangerous thing.

    When McG fails in his attempt; this will spell the end for SFs advances southwards.


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    #878
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    K-9 wrote: »
    They are fond of rhetorical questions to avoid condemning IRS actions unreservedly.

    .....the workings of the US revenue service are a subject on which I feel insufficiently informed to comment.


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    #879
    Tiocfaidh Armani
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭Tiocfaidh Armani


    K-9 wrote: »
    People who can't condemn the likes of Proxy bombs without the usual whataboutery and excuses, simple. It's like reading an IRA propaganda manual at times.

    When I see folk like you actually concentrate on something the Brits and loyalists do I'd take you seriously. You're fixated on the IRA, you would swear they were the only ones involved.


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    #880
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Nodin wrote: »
    .....the workings of the US revenue service are a subject on which I feel insufficiently informed to comment.

    Ah Nodin, well played, can always rely on your witty remarks.
    Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »
    When I see folk like you actually concentrate on something the Brits and loyalists do I'd take you seriously. You're fixated on the IRA, you would swear they were the only ones involved.

    Point proven.

    I've repeatedly pointed to British crimes and cover ups. I think it's a moral block or something that hardline Republicans have.

    There'd be no point in me linking to them as it doesn't sink in, computer says no.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #881
    Tiocfaidh Armani
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭Tiocfaidh Armani


    K-9 wrote: »
    Point proven.

    I've repeatedly pointed to British crimes and cover ups. I think it's a moral block or something that hardline Republicans have.

    I was speaking generally. People in Ireland are fixated with the IRA. You would swear they were a new thing and just decided to randomly kill people for the craic.

    FYI, I've condemned plenty of IRA actions where I see not, not when someone tells me to. Some bad things happen in a war and some very wrong things. The IRA apologised for the deaths of all non-combatants, that's good enough for me.


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    #882
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »
    I was speaking generally. People in Ireland are fixated with the IRA. You would swear they were a new thing and just decided to randomly kill people for the craic.

    FYI, I've condemned plenty of IRA actions where I see not, not when someone tells me to. Some bad things happen in a war and some very wrong things. The IRA apologised for the deaths of all non-combatants, that's good enough for me.

    I must have missed this war you speak of. :confused:


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    #883
    Tiocfaidh Armani
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭Tiocfaidh Armani


    old hippy wrote: »
    I must have missed this war you speak of. :confused:

    Were you in a thirty year coma then?


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    #884
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »
    Were you in a thirty year coma then?

    I was living in the Republic of Ireland; there was no war on there, a chara :)


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    #885
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »
    I was speaking generally. People in Ireland are fixated with the IRA. You would swear they were a new thing and just decided to randomly kill people for the craic.

    FYI, I've condemned plenty of IRA actions where I see not, not when someone tells me to. Some bad things happen in a war and some very wrong things. The IRA apologised for the deaths of all non-combatants, that's good enough for me.

    Fair enough. It's when people can't unreservedly condemn proxy bombs and the murder of Patsy Gillespie without bringing in 800 years, that's the type of stuff I'm on about.

    I don't have time for whataboutery for Shoot to Kill etc. either.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #886
    OMD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »
    Were you in a thirty year coma then?

    The war against organised criminals like the IRA is not like a war as most people think about it. Think the "war against drugs". Again not really a war in the true sense of the word.


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    #887
    Tiocfaidh Armani
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭Tiocfaidh Armani


    OMD wrote: »
    The war against organised criminals like the IRA is not like a war as most people think about it. Think the "war against drugs". Again not really a war in the true sense of the word.

    Oh, okkkaaayyyy....:rolleyes:


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    #888
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »
    Oh, okkkaaayyyy....:rolleyes:

    He's got a point, mind. If the Republic and the UK had been in a war, I'm sure I'd remember. You can hardly call a bit of thuggery and tribalism in a foreign country a war, unpleasant as it was.


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    #889
    Tiocfaidh Armani
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭Tiocfaidh Armani


    K-9 wrote: »
    Fair enough. It's when people can't unreservedly condemn proxy bombs and the murder of Patsy Gillespie without bringing in 800 years, that's the type of stuff I'm on about.

    I don't have time for whataboutery for Shoot to Kill etc. either.

    I would condemn his killing, it shouldn't have happened. No doubt about it.
    I was living in the Republic of Ireland; there was no war on there, a chara
    He's got a point, mind. If the Republic and the UK had been in a war, I'm sure I'd remember. You can hardly call a bit of thuggery and tribalism in a foreign country a war, unpleasant as it was.

    Yeah foreign country? ppffffttt, jog on.

    Next time I hear the old "they went against our wishes" I'll point to posts like that to see why they were right not to give a damn about what the 26 counties thought. Why should they have given a hoot about what people think who didn't have to live with what they had to and about people who didn't give a damn about what happened up there unless it was the IRA who did it.


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    #890
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    old hippy wrote: »
    He's got a point, mind. If the Republic and the UK had been in a war, I'm sure I'd remember. You can hardly call a bit of thuggery and tribalism in a foreign country a war, unpleasant as it was.

    The IRA boys call it a war as it makes them feel like heroes when they killed and bombed, otherwise the awful truth of what it really was might dawn on them. Probably even gave each other medals, Marty probably has a few as well.


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    #891
    OMD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

    Next time I hear the old "they went against our wishes" I'll point to posts like that to see why they were right not to give a damn about what the 26 counties thought. Why should they have given a hoot about what people think who didn't have to live with what they had to and about people who didn't give a damn about what happened up there unless it was the IRA who did it.

    but they didn't just go against the wishes of the 26 counties. They also went against the wishes of the majority of people in the north also. For the partitionist's amongst you they also went against the wishes of nationalists in the north.


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    #892
    Tiocfaidh Armani
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭Tiocfaidh Armani


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    The IRA boys call it a war as it makes them feel like heroes when they killed and bombed,

    That's what happens in a war....


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    #893
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    old hippy wrote: »
    He's got a point, mind. If the Republic and the UK had been in a war, I'm sure I'd remember. You can hardly call a bit of thuggery and tribalism in a foreign country a war, unpleasant as it was.


    It was a war...it's just that the Fine Gael and Fianna Fail battalions deserted! :rolleyes:


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    #894
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »


    Yeah foreign country? ppffffttt, jog on.

    Next time I hear the old "they went against our wishes" I'll point to posts like that to see why they were right not to give a damn about what the 26 counties thought. Why should they have given a hoot about what people think who didn't have to live with what they had to and about people who didn't give a damn about what happened up there unless it was the IRA who did it.

    Don't get me wrong, I genuinely feel sorry for the victims in both tribes, in the same way that I feel sorry for the victims of any violence in any conflict but the 6 counties might as well be Rwanda to most Irish people.


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    #895
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »
    That's what happens in a war....

    Only there was no war as far as most people are concerned, its only the murderers called it that, funny that is it not? Normal people call it murder.


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    #896
    OMD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    It was a war...it's just that the Fine Gael and Fianna Fail battalions deserted! :rolleyes:

    So considering now the Real IRA are still in action how can people say "the war is over".


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    #897
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    It was a war...it's just that the Fine Gael and Fianna Fail battalions deserted! :rolleyes:
    It doesn't really matter what you want to call it. The fact is the PIRA surrendered and ended the armed campaign. It had nothing to do with Fine Gael or Fiannna Fail either. They had nothing to abandon.


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    #898
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Only there was no war as far as most people are concerned, its only the murderers called it that, funny that is it not? Normal people call it murder.

    Yup. Al Qaeda reckon they're at war with the west but we all know the mindset of the terrorist and how they like to justify mayhem...


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    #899
    Tiocfaidh Armani
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭Tiocfaidh Armani


    OMD wrote: »
    but they didn't just go against the wishes of the 26 counties. They also went against the wishes of the majority of people in the north also. For the partitionist's amongst you they also went against the wishes of nationalists in the north.

    True but they had a large portion of it and in working class areas where the fighting was they had a majority a lot of the time.

    I ask again, what endorsement of the people did 1916 have? Yet we'll have a big celebration for them in 2016 and they'll be hailed as heroes, despite going against the will of the majority at the time. Pure and utter revisionism and what's good for you isn't good enough for them and they had a lot worse to live with than what we ever had.


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    #900
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,665 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    old hippy wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong, I genuinely feel sorry for the victims in both tribes, in the same way that I feel sorry for the victims of any violence in any conflict but the 6 counties might as well be Rwanda to most Irish people.

    please lay off with the highly inaccurate 'tribes' theory. its so far off the mark.


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    #901
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,665 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    K-9 wrote: »
    People who can't condemn the likes of Proxy bombs without the usual whataboutery and excuses, simple. It's like reading an IRA propaganda manual at times.

    so instead of saying these things directly to whoever it is you are talking about - without the usual whataboutery and excuses - you just make generalisations? Great work there.


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