What Has Martin McGuinness Ever Done For The Republic of Ireland?

crebel81 · 13-10-2011 12:54pm

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

Northern Ireland is different country to state of Ireland,Till such time as all people of all divides decide they don't want to be part of UK anymore .Not going to happen right now but maybe in future if majority of people decide.

If there was a referendum on this, how would you vote?

KELTICKNIGHTT · 13-10-2011 1:13pm

crebel81 wrote: »

If there was a referendum on this, how would you vote?

The referendum has to be in northern Ireland and not in state of Ireland, I would say yes to whole Ireland where the government of Ireland was in charge Only in DUBLIN ONLY and ALL Terrorist and EX-terrorist weren't involved that's marty mcguinness out and his likes.

But referendum can only be in Northern Ireland as its them who it affects most and that means all divides from all sections of Northern Ireland.

Border-Rat · 13-10-2011 1:35pm

But Fianna Fail has its roots in terrorism mate. Real head scratcher for ye there. :rolleyes:

maxer68 · 13-10-2011 1:57pm

To answer the OP MMG has done absolutley nothing whatsoever for the republic of Ireland.

He was brought kicking and screaming into the peace process only AFTER the USA was about to announce SF as a terrorist organisation and only afetr numerous attempts to bring him/IRA into a peace situation failed.

He wrecked the Irish economy from early seventies through to mid nineties as many people were afraid to visit / set up business.

He still cannot control the sectarian violence that is rife acroos republican araes of northern Ireland.

Yes - he was education minister and did goo dthings in NI, but money was thrown at him and a blind bat could have done the same jib with the same money.

Sorry, but MMG is a violent person who has very lately come to the non-violent party and has tried to give the impression that butter wouldn't melt in his mouth.

Liam Byrne · 13-10-2011 2:04pm

maxer68 wrote: »

Yes - he was education minister and did goo dthings in NI, but money was thrown at him and a blind bat could have done the same jib with the same money.

To be fair, that's not necessarily true, given the amount of money that FF have thrown at stuff for the last 10 years and not even remotely improved matters.

So if MMG has done some good in Northern Ireland after they voted in the 2 extremes, then credit where credit's due.

It still doesn't remotely compensate for the other things that he did, though....it's like someone having a boyfriend who buys her chocolates while beating her.

maccored · 13-10-2011 2:10pm

maxer68 wrote: »

He was brought kicking and screaming into the peace process only AFTER the USA was about to announce SF as a terrorist organisation and only afetr numerous attempts to bring him/IRA into a peace situation failed.

You really need to learn your history - it wasnt that long ago either. hint - google 'hume adams talks' - which was the basis for the gfa. Sinn Fein, including mmg who was chief negotiator, where one of the main driving forces behind the gfa. dont know what you're on about with the 'kicking and screaming'.

cosmicfart · 13-10-2011 2:16pm

maxer68 wrote: »

To answer the OP MMG has done absolutley nothing whatsoever for the republic of Ireland.

Fighting for the Republican cause in the north of our small island in a time of War is nothing then?

maxer68 wrote: »

He was brought kicking and screaming into the peace process only AFTER the USA was about to announce SF as a terrorist organisation and only afetr numerous attempts to bring him/IRA into a peace situation failed.

The USA has killed millions of innocent people in Iraq, Vietnam etc the list goes on. u could say they are an entire nations of terrorists themselves. I couldnt care less what they would label a party from a ours or another country as, taking the above into consideration.

maxer68 wrote: »

He wrecked the Irish economy from early seventies through to mid nineties as many people were afraid to visit / set up business.

u are clearly confusing Fianna Fail with Sinn Fein.

maxer68 wrote: »

He still cannot control the sectarian violence that is rife acroos republican araes of northern Ireland.

He is NOT the leader of any paramilitary group, and there are loads of groups/splintr groups both nationalist and loyalist. The man aint superman u know!

maxer68 wrote: »

Yes - he was education minister and did goo dthings in NI, but money was thrown at him and a blind bat could have done the same jib with the same money.

Reall, were u asleep during the Cetic Tiger and our are still sleeping now in this recession???

maxer68 wrote: »

Sorry, but MMG is a violent person who has very lately come to the non-violent party and has tried to give the impression that butter wouldn't melt in his mouth.

people have a past, and yes, they can learn from it and become all the better because of it.

KELTICKNIGHTT · 13-10-2011 2:17pm

Border-Rat wrote: »

But Fianna Fail has its roots in terrorism mate. Real head scratcher for ye there. :rolleyes:

maybe you should read when parties where formed after independence.
while your at it
see that state of Ireland is separate from Northern Ireland with a border

KELTICKNIGHTT · 13-10-2011 2:20pm

Border-Rat wrote: »

But Fianna Fail has its roots in terrorism mate. Real head scratcher for ye there. :rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fianna_F%C3%A1il
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine_Gael

and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_mcguinness

maxer68 · 13-10-2011 2:47pm

cosmicfart wrote: »

Fighting for the Republican cause in the north of our small island in a time of War is nothing then?

The USA has killed millions of innocent people in Iraq, Vietnam etc the list goes on. u could say they are an entire nations of terrorists themselves. I couldnt care less what they would label a party from a ours or another country as, taking the above into consideration.

u are clearly confusing Fianna Fail with Sinn Fein.

He is NOT the leader of any paramilitary group, and there are loads of groups/splintr groups both nationalist and loyalist. The man aint superman u know!

Reall, were u asleep during the Cetic Tiger and our are still sleeping now in this recession???

I don't understand this. I'm in business, i recently opened a UK division and will be incerasing my employee count to 20 by christmas. Small business, but beautiful business.

people have a past, and yes, they can learn from it and become all the better because of it.

The war was created by the IRA because they did not like britush rule. The IRA were NOT voted in by the people of any part of ireland and therefore did not represent us and their "war" was a war of terror. Only when they realised that their funding and SF funding would be stopped immediately did they really enter the peace process.

The USA war with Iraq was valid as it was partaken in by the ELECTED representatives. Whether it was right or wrong is another discussion. But the citizens of the USA could vote out the ruling party and change that if THEY wished. SF/IRA on the otherhand listened to nobody.

MMG still has plenty of contacts with all groups and SF could easily lead by example, but its in their interest to still have activity going otherwise other parties will take their votes.

recession question???
I don't understand this. I'm in business, i recently opened a UK division and will be increasing my employee count to 20 by christmas. Small business, but beautiful business.

last part

A leopard does not change their spots.

If a new sf went for presidency such as Mary lou - it would be a different story. But MMG - We don't want / need a violent, gun toting, bank robbing person representing us.

maccored · 13-10-2011 2:50pm

Yes, you really, really, really do need to read up on irish history. the IRA didnt even exist when the trouble between the irish and british started.

maxer68 wrote: »

The war was created by the IRA because they did not like britush rule. The IRA were NOT voted in by the people of any part of ireland and therefore did not represent us and their "war" was a war of terror. Only when they realised that their funding and SF funding would be stopped immediately did they really enter the peace process.

The USA war with Iraq was valid as it was partaken in by the ELECTED representatives. Whether it was right or wrong is another discussion. But the citizens of the USA could vote out the ruling party and change that if THEY wished. SF/IRA on the otherhand listened to nobody.

MMG still has plenty of contacts with all groups and SF could easily lead by example, but its in their interest to still have activity going otherwise other parties will take their votes.

recession question???
I don't understand this. I'm in business, i recently opened a UK division and will be increasing my employee count to 20 by christmas. Small business, but beautiful business.

last part

A leopard does not change their spots.

If a new sf went for presidency such as Mary lou - it would be a different story. But MMG - We don't want / need a violent, gun toting, bank robbing person representing us.

Stark · 13-10-2011 2:52pm

RepublicanEagle wrote: »

Hence it is not a "country".

You're confusing "country" with "sovereign state". Northern Ireland is a country. As are England, Wales and Scotland. The United Kingdom is a state.

blahfckingblah · 13-10-2011 2:56pm

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

maybe when he stops lying,tells paddy kellys son who the murders are so Kelly family can get justice,if he doesn't ,then we know he hasn't changed ,just moved the goal posts,marty mc guinness is too toxic a candidate to be president of any country,he has alot of questions to answer like others in IRA /SEIN FEIN party,there is still family members who where taken from there homes by ira/sein fein and known to be killed and there body's never found. There is too many un-answered with Mc Guinness and party to these and other issues,People in state of Ireland can't take a chance with mc guinness too attract jobs and other services too Ireland.you can say the ira/sf propaganda any way you like,WON'T change anything now in Irelandin few decades ,maybe but not now

TG, DR (too green, didnt read)

Iomega Man · 13-10-2011 3:05pm

If you are all so concerned that he has done nothing for the ROI then why don't you vote for him?
That way we'd be saving the difference between the average industrial wage, which is what he said he would take and what a President would normally receive..

maxer68 · 13-10-2011 3:06pm

maccored wrote: »

Yes, you really, really, really do need to read up on irish history. the IRA didnt even exist when the trouble between the irish and british started.

my irish history is fine thank you - the current / just resolved situation known as "The Troubles" started in 1969 and ended with the good friday agreement.

Prior to this, whilst some people were not happy, there was relative peace in Ireland and the country grew quite prosperous from the late fifties though to very early seventies... then the IRA and their campaing of terror along with MMG ruined the country.

Then again some people will only look through rose tinted googles and see SF/IRA as saviours. (tell that to the 1700+ who were murdered by SF/IRA - oh damn they're dead - then tell their families!)

Iomega Man · 13-10-2011 3:10pm

maxer68 wrote: »

my irish history is fine thank you - the current / just resolved situation known as "The Troubles" started in 1969 and ended with the good friday agreement.

Prior to this, whilst some people were not happy, there was relative peace in Ireland and the country grew quite prosperous from the late fifties though to very early seventies... then the IRA and their campaing of terror along with MMG ruined the country.

Then again some people will only look through rose tinted googles and see SF/IRA as saviours. (tell that to the 1700+ who were murdered by SF/IRA - oh damn they're dead - then tell their families!)

Yea, peace at the EXPENSE of the Catholic/Nationalist minority in the north.
Thats no peace at all , now is it?

And if you think that the IRA ruined the country then I'd like to know where you've been for the last few years...

cosmicfart · 13-10-2011 3:11pm

maxer68 wrote: »

The war was created by the IRA because they did not like britush rule. The IRA were NOT voted in by the people of any part of ireland and therefore did not represent us and their "war" was a war of terror. Only when they realised that their funding and SF funding would be stopped immediately did they really enter the peace process.

No you are wrong actually, the War, thats the War for our entire independence, is down to the occupation of the British in Ireland. The 'Troubles' began because of British solders killing innocent nationalists and catholics. If it wasnt for the IRA we would still be a dominion of the British empire!!

maxer68 wrote: »

The USA war with Iraq was valid as it was partaken in by the ELECTED representatives. Whether it was right or wrong is another discussion. But the citizens of the USA could vote out the ruling party and change that if THEY wished. SF/IRA on the otherhand listened to nobody.

So just because some elected officials of one country deem its ok to go into another country and destroy it then you have problem with it??? Have u ever heard of Nazi Germany???

Sein Fein and the IRA are the only repbulican voice that has a say in the North.

maxer68 wrote: »

MMG still has plenty of contacts with all groups and SF could easily lead by example, but its in their interest to still have activity going otherwise other parties will take their votes.

He is leading by example, he is the deputy first minister of the North! When was the last time u heard of dozens of people been killed by bombs up North?? Long ago now and that IS BECAUSE of MMG.

maxer68 wrote: »

recession question???
I don't understand this. I'm in business, i recently opened a UK division and will be increasing my employee count to 20 by christmas. Small business, but beautiful business.

MMG has had NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH RECESSION IN THE REPUBLIC, CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU????!!

maxer68 wrote: »

last part

A leopard does not change their spots.

If a new sf went for presidency such as Mary lou - it would be a different story. But MMG - We don't want / need a violent, gun toting, bank robbing person representing us.

LOL spoken like a broken record. I cant say Ive ever seen MMG hold a gun, rob a bank or do any of the other things u claim. If you can show me this on his criminal record, you know some proof of what ur claiming then fine, otherwise I think you should stop spouting lies.

Liam Byrne · 13-10-2011 3:15pm

cosmicfart wrote: »

No you are wrong actually, the War, thats the War for our entire independence, is down to the occupation of the British in Ireland. The 'Troubles' began because of British solders killing innocent nationalists and catholics. If it wasnt for the IRA we would still be a dominion of the British empire!!

Not exactly possible, since the British Empire doesn't exist anymore.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/empire/g3/overview.htm
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090819034643AAoyf8V

cosmicfart · 13-10-2011 3:18pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Not exactly possible, since the British Empire doesn't exist anymore.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090819034643AAoyf8V

Bravo. I was thinking back in the day, you know 1919 and such. Its down to groups like the IRA that stood up for the national freedom of their country that the British Empire no longer exists.

Liam Byrne · 13-10-2011 3:20pm

cosmicfart wrote: »

Bravo. I was thinking back in the day, you know 1919 and such.

Really ? What does that have to do with McGuinness and this thread ?

cosmicfart wrote: »

Its down to groups like the IRA that stood up for the national freedom of their country that the British Empire no longer exists.

Yes, and such a pity that so many of their innocent victims aren't around to enjoy that fact.

Zubeneschamali · 13-10-2011 3:22pm

cosmicfart wrote: »

I cant say Ive ever seen MMG hold a gun, rob a bank or do any of the other things u claim.

In 1973, he was convicted by the Republic of Ireland's Special Criminal Court, after being caught with a car containing 250 lb (113 kg) of explosives and nearly 5,000 rounds of ammunition. He refused to recognise the court, and was sentenced to six months imprisonment. In court, he declared his membership of the Provisional Irish Republican Army without equivocation: 'We have fought against the killing of our people... I am a member of Óglaigh na hÉireann and very, very proud of it'.

dulpit · 13-10-2011 3:29pm

As far as I can tell (and I'm no expert mind) he's done a grand total of nothing for Ireland (or the South, Down South, 26 counties, whatever you're having today that he calls it).

What irks me here is that people view the North as being part of Ireland (the country, not the island), which it ain't. Republicans/etc are perfectly entitled to be in favour of a United Ireland, that's fine, but they need to recognise the facts as they are right now. Which they don't. Which bugs me.

maccored · 13-10-2011 3:41pm

maxer68 wrote: »

my irish history is fine thank you - the current / just resolved situation known as "The Troubles" started in 1969 and ended with the good friday agreement.

Prior to this, whilst some people were not happy, there was relative peace in Ireland and the country grew quite prosperous from the late fifties though to very early seventies... then the IRA and their campaing of terror along with MMG ruined the country.

Then again some people will only look through rose tinted googles and see SF/IRA as saviours. (tell that to the 1700+ who were murdered by SF/IRA - oh damn they're dead - then tell their families!)

1969 was just a continuation of a longer war. even in the 1916 rebellion the IRA didnt exist. to say it all started because of the IRA wanting the brits out is completely wrong. Who killed the first soldier in the north? the first policeman? the first loyalist? I think you'll find none of those were killed by the IRA.

Happyman42 · 13-10-2011 3:43pm

dulpit wrote: »

Which they don't.

How do you figure that?
SF signed up to the GFA.....have you read that document/are you aware of it's existence?

LordSutch · 13-10-2011 3:45pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

What Has Martin McGuinness Ever Done For The Republic of Ireland?

Nothing positive.

maxer68 · 13-10-2011 3:53pm

Iomega Man wrote: »

Yea, peace at the EXPENSE of the Catholic/Nationalist minority in the north.
Thats no peace at all , now is it?

And if you think that the IRA ruined the country then I'd like to know where you've been for the last few years...

My family is from Ballycastle. Plenty of family still in Ballycastle area. Never had an issue when growing up becuse SF didn't have a look in up there. Big Ian was the man and he got votes from all quarters as he looked after everyone, catholic & protestant, he didnt care. If he was gong for president, he'd get my number 1 (but he's a little too old:D)

cosmicfart · 13-10-2011 3:56pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Really ? What does that have to do with McGuinness and this thread ?

I was responding to ur post and its very relevant if we are going to be if we are going to be talking about MMG and the IRA.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Yes, and such a pity that so many of their innocent victims aren't around to enjoy that fact.

What about the innocent victims killed by the British?? Or do they not count in you're one-sided argument eh??

cosmicfart · 13-10-2011 3:59pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

In 1973, he was convicted by the Republic of Ireland's Special Criminal Court, after being caught with a car containing 250 lb (113 kg) of explosives and nearly 5,000 rounds of ammunition. He refused to recognise the court, and was sentenced to six months imprisonment. In court, he declared his membership of the Provisional Irish Republican Army without equivocation: 'We have fought against the killing of our people... I am a member of Óglaigh na hÉireann and very, very proud of it'.

I never take what I read on Wikipedia as Gospel and his past has really nothing to do with the man he is today as far as im concerned. At least his 'criminality' was for a just cause, unlike so many of recent politicians down south with have screwed this country for generations and TOTALLY GOT AWAY SCOT FREE!

dulpit · 13-10-2011 4:07pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

How do you figure that?
SF signed up to the GFA.....have you read that document/are you aware of it's existence?

The vast majority of republican people on this issue (either here or elsewhere) seem to refer to Ireland as 1 country, etc. That's all..

Zubeneschamali · 13-10-2011 4:13pm

cosmicfart wrote: »

his past has really nothing to do with the man he is today as far as im concerned.

So when you said "I cant say Ive ever seen MMG hold a gun, rob a bank or do any of the other things u claim" you actually meant"I don't care if MMG held a gun, robbed a bank or any of the other things you claim". By the way:

What Has Martin McGuinness Ever Done For The Republic of Ireland?

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