What Has Martin McGuinness Ever Done For The Republic of Ireland?

maccored · 13-10-2011 4:15pm

So you;re saying that picture proves he's robbed banks etc etc? Otherwise, whats your point? Im sure many many people have held a gun. People hold guns on Top Shot every week. Doesnt mean they killed or robbed anyone.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

So when you said "I cant say Ive ever seen MMG hold a gun, rob a bank or do any of the other things u claim" you actually meant"I don't care if MMG held a gun, robbed a bank or any of the other things you claim". By the way:

Liam Byrne · 13-10-2011 4:16pm

cosmicfart wrote: »

What about the innocent victims killed by the British?? Or do they not count in you're one-sided argument eh??

Yet again, there's ridiculous claims being made about what has never been said.

Can you not debate the topic at hand without resorting to false claims and attempted discrediting ?

The reason that it's a "one-sided argument" is because McGuinness is running for election in this country. The British aren't, and I wouldn't vote for them if they were.

So quit the whataboutery.

Zubeneschamali · 13-10-2011 4:20pm

maccored wrote: »

whats your point?

Cosmicfart commented that he'd never seen MMG holding a gun, so I showed him a picture of MMG holding a gun.

Bannasidhe · 13-10-2011 4:24pm

The OP posted a specific question - So semantics about the name of the state currently consisting of 26 out of 32 counties on the island of Ireland aside and avoiding ye another tedious rehash/rerehash/rererehash of the Brits Vs Irish debate - my response is that to date Martin McGuinness has done as much for the 26 county state known as '......' as Ian Paisley has.

Zubeneschamali · 13-10-2011 4:27pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

McGuinness is running for election in this country. The British aren't.

But what about the West British?

maccored · 13-10-2011 4:31pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Cosmicfart commented that he'd never seen MMG holding a gun, so I showed him a picture of MMG holding a gun.

ah. Good on you. I dont know what that proves one way or another, but good for you. still, technically its a picture of him holding a gun. you arent actually there, watching him holding a gun. I think its photoshopped as I can see the pixels.

maccored · 13-10-2011 4:33pm

in answer to the OP - i think the world doesnt know the difference between Ireland, the republic and the north etc ..... so therefore overall MMG has probably done a good job in making this place look better the world over - north and south though ... not just specifically the republic.

Bannasidhe · 13-10-2011 4:39pm

maccored wrote: »

in answer to the OP - i think the world doesnt know the difference between Ireland, the republic and the north etc ..... so therefore overall MMG has probably done a good job in making this place look better the world over - north and south though ... not just specifically the republic.

If you mean people like these

Even domestic natural disasters like Katrina appear to have little impact on the geographic knowledge of young Americans. One-third of those surveyed could not find Louisiana on a U.S. map, and almost half (48 percent) could not locate the state of Mississippi. On a more practical level, given a map of a hypothetical place and told they could escape an approaching hurricane by evacuating to the northwest, one-third would travel in the wrong direction.

http://press.nationalgeographic.com/pressroom/index.jsp?siteID=1&pageID=pressReleases_detail&cid=1146580209503

I would respectfully suggest that the woeful geographical ignorance of people is no basis for a valid argument to support your hypothesis...

maccored · 13-10-2011 4:44pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If you mean people like these http://press.nationalgeographic.com/pressroom/index.jsp?siteID=1&pageID=pressReleases_detail&cid=1146580209503

I would respectfully suggest that the woeful geographical ignorance of people is no basis for a valid argument to support your hypothesis...

doesnt that actually back the fact up even more? If you ask has mmg done anything for the republic then the answer is clearly yes - people have a respect for ireland because of the peace process. OK - we know thats really about the north, but the kind of people you quoted obviously wouldnt know the difference.

View · 13-10-2011 4:51pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

But what about the West British?

Well the opinion of the UK Border Agency based on UK law is:

If you were born in the UK before 1 January 1983

If you were born in the UK before 1 January 1983, you are almost certainly a British citizen. The only exception is if you were born to certain diplomatic staff of foreign missions who had diplomatic immunity.

As a matter of interest, when and where was Martin McGuinness born?
Would it have been in a western part of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland" (to use the formal title)?

Bannasidhe · 13-10-2011 4:52pm

maccored wrote: »

doesnt that actually back the fact up even more? If you ask has mmg done anything for the republic then the answer is clearly yes - people have a respect for ireland because of the peace process. OK - we know thats really about the north, but the kind of people you quoted obviously wouldnt know the difference.

The people I quoted would appear to have trouble finding their own arse with a map since they can't actually read a map. What 'most' of the (geographically ignorant) of the world think has no baring on the question the OP asked - which was 'Can anyone list things that Martin McGuinness has done...'.

The vast majority of people in the world probably have no fecking idea where the tiny little island called Ireland is...never mind give a flying monkey about it. So I would posit, respectfully, that their opinion is utterly void of relevance to the question asked.

maccored · 13-10-2011 4:53pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The people I quoted would appear to have trouble finding their own arse with a map since they can't actually read a map. What 'most' of the (geographically ignorant) of the world think has no baring on the question the OP asked - which was 'Can anyone list things that Martin McGuinness has done...'.

The vast majority of people in the world probably have no fecking idea where the tiny little island called Ireland is...never mind give a flying monkey about it. So I would posit, respectfully, that their opinion is utterly void relevance to the question asked.

so people around the world havent heard of ireland before. Fair enough.

Happyman42 · 13-10-2011 4:54pm

dulpit wrote: »

The vast majority of republican people on this issue (either here or elsewhere) seem to refer to Ireland as 1 country, etc. That's all..

Some people, need to sit down for an evening and read and digest the GFA, especially those who refer to themselves as 'no experts'.

URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Good_Friday_Agreement&action=edit&section=4"]edit[/URL Constitutional issues

The Agreement acknowledged and recognised:
that the majority of the people of Northern Ireland at the time wished to remain as part of the United Kingdom, and that Northern Ireland's present and continuing status as part of the United Kingdom was a reflection of that wish;

that a "substantial section" of the people of Northern Ireland, and the majority "of the people of the island of Ireland", wished to bring about a united Ireland;

that both views were legitimate;

that it was only for the people of Ireland as a whole, by agreement between North and South, "to exercise their right of self-determination on the basis of consent, freely and concurrently given", to bring about a united Ireland;

that any future change in the status of Northern Ireland as a part of the United Kingdom is only to be brought about by the freely exercised choice of "a majority of the people of Northern Ireland";

and that the British and Irish governments are under "a binding obligation" to implement that choice.

The Agreement also "affirm" that whether as part of the United Kingdom, or in future as a part of a united Ireland, the relevant government with authority over Northern Ireland shall exercise its authority there "with rigorous impartiality on behalf of all the people in the diversity of their identities and traditions and shall be founded on the principles of full respect for, and equality of, civil, political, social and cultural rights, of freedom from discrimination for all citizens, and of parity of esteem and of just and equal treatment for the identity, ethos, and aspirations of both communities".

The "birthright" of all the people of Northern Ireland "to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both", is also recognised, as well as their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship; and that these rights are not to be affected should Northern Ireland become a part of a united Ireland.

It is quite legitimate to refer to the island as one country. It depends on what you see as your birthright.

maccored · 13-10-2011 4:54pm

View wrote: »

Well the opinion of the UK Border Agency based on UK law is:

As a matter of interest, when and where was Martin McGuinness born?
Would it have been in a western part of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland" (to use the formal title)?

Some might call it that. others would say 'Derry, Ireland'. much shorter.

cosmicfart · 13-10-2011 4:58pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

So when you said "I cant say Ive ever seen MMG hold a gun, rob a bank or do any of the other things u claim" you actually meant"I don't care if MMG held a gun, robbed a bank or any of the other things you claim". By the way:

LOL that could be anyone you cant even see his full face

Bannasidhe · 13-10-2011 5:01pm

maccored wrote: »

so people around the world havent heard of ireland before. Fair enough.

The majority probably haven't. I know we like to think we are well known globally but we really are just a small Island off the western coast of Europe. Given that the majority of the Irish diaspora went to the U.S. and the National Geographic has shown that nearly 50% of young Americans (some of who would call themselves 'Irish-Americans') can't find Mississippi on a map - do you really think they know where Ireland is?

As for the 1.3 billion people in China or the 1.21 billion in India - Do you really think the majority of them either know or care?

cosmicfart · 13-10-2011 5:03pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Yet again, there's ridiculous claims being made about what has never been said.

Can you not debate the topic at hand without resorting to false claims and attempted discrediting ?

The reason that it's a "one-sided argument" is because McGuinness is running for election in this country. The British aren't, and I wouldn't vote for them if they were.

So quit the whataboutery.

Im discussing the man in question but OK so back on topic, what has MMG done for the South? Quite a lot apparently, making the IRA less and less militant to the point that they no longer are in volved in violence therefore, in essence, ridding both the North and South of terrorism and bombings. Some might call that an achievement. What would you call it? what might he do for the future should he be elected, a dam lot more than other politically inept candidates who can barely string two words together.

maccored · 13-10-2011 5:03pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The majority probably haven't. I know we like to think we are well known globally but we really are just a small Island off the western coast of Europe. Given that the majority of the Irish diaspora went to the U.S. and the National Geographic has shown that nearly 50% of young Americans (some of who would call themselves 'Irish-Americans') can't find Mississippi on a map - do you really think they know where Ireland is?

As for the 1.3 billion people in China or the 1.21 billion in India - Do you really think the majority of them either know or care?

im not saying everyone in the world has heard of Ireland - but countries throughout the world are aware of ireland and the peace process. many of those people might not be aware of the north / republic / ireland debate, and instead lump it all together. Really, you get the point. Labour it out more if you want, but I cant make it any simpler for you to understand unfortunately.

RepublicanEagle · 13-10-2011 5:05pm

Most of you people in the south and on this site will never understand what the Irish nationalist community and others in the north had to go through, you sit there in your seat typing remarks about the people up north who endured what you never went through and will never understand.

We were forced to defend ourselves, our families and communities against a state that oppressed us, a British Army that sought to use any excuse to kill us and make our lives a living hell, the RUC who were supposed to protect the innocent and uphold the law and instead worked with loyalist terrorists, unionist politicians and a British goverment who treated us as vermin and second class citizens.

You have no idea about the ordeals McGuinness and the people went through and you still see it fit to pass judgement on us.
Innocent people died, people were forced to kill people until their voices were heard, which ended thankfuly with the Good Friday Agreement, but the likes of you Liam and usual suspects here call us cravens and cowardly

COWARDLY is kicking your door down and dragging your parents away to prison for no reason.
COWARDLY is burning people out of there homes making them refugees.
COWARDLY is beating and shooting people who go on civil rights marches.
COWARDLY is throwing bags of urine and bombs at schoolgirls and their mothers walking to school
COWARDLY is abducting innocent people and murdering them up just because they have different beliefs
COWARDLY is blowing up and maiming innocent people

but no.......you call people who had no choice but to stand up against oppression cowardly...

Liam Byrne · 13-10-2011 5:05pm

cosmicfart wrote: »

......ridding both the North and South of terrorism and bombings....

.....which he and his cronies should never have been doing in the first place.

Would you consider Ivor Callely a great man if he suddenly stopped fiddling expenses, or Ahern if he suddenly stopped getting cash out of nowhere ?

No, because they shouldn't have been doing it in the first place, and therefore shouldn't be fawned on for simply stopping.

Happyman42 · 13-10-2011 5:06pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

[Embedded Image Removed]

:eek:

Bannasidhe · 13-10-2011 5:06pm

maccored wrote: »

im not saying everyone in the world has heard of Ireland - but countries throughout the world are aware of ireland and the peace process. many of those people might not be aware of the north / republic / ireland debate, and instead lump it all together. Really, you get the point. Labour it out more if you want, but I cant make it any simpler for you to understand unfortunately.

I understand your point perfectly, it is simplistic enough already thank you - I just don't think it has any relevance to the question asked.

Liam Byrne · 13-10-2011 5:08pm

RepublicanEagle wrote: »

Innocent people died, but the likes of you Liam and usual suspects here call us cravens and cowardly

1. COWARDLY is kicking your door down and dragging your parents away to prison for no reason.
2. COWARDLY is burning people out of there homes making them refugees.
3. COWARDLY is beating and shooting people who go on civil rights marches.
4. COWARDLY is throwing bags of urine and bombs at schoolgirls and their mothers walking to school
5. COWARDLY is abducting innocent people and murdering them up just because they have different beliefs
6. COWARDLY is blowing up and maiming innocent people

but no.......you call people who had no choice but to stand up against oppression cowardly...

Agreed on Numbers 5 & 6....are you disgusted by BOTH SIDES that did those ?

Neither of those equate to "standing up against oppression". That is the main point.

Reacting appropriately to 1 - 4 is a whole other issue, and I wouldn't condemn anyone for doing so

cosmicfart · 13-10-2011 5:08pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

.....which he and his cronies should never have been doing in the first place.

Would you consider Ivor Callely a great man if he suddenly stopped fiddling expenses, or Ahern if he suddenly stopped getting cash out of nowhere ?

No, because they shouldn't have been doing it in the first place, and therefore shouldn't be fawned on for simply stopping.

You cant compare fraudsters with freedom fighters, so dont bother going there. Him and his cronies as u put it were involved in a conflict and prepared to put there lives on the line to defend the place they lived in, I suppose you are of such character that you would just let people walk all over you by the looks of it.

Zubeneschamali · 13-10-2011 5:09pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

[Embedded Image Removed]

:eek:

So, Willie O'Dea for President?

No, I didn't think so.

maccored · 13-10-2011 5:09pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I understand your point perfectly, it is simplistic enough already thank you - I just don't think it has any relevance to the question asked.

I on the other hand, think it does. To make your point relevant then no-one in the world of any importance has ever heard of Ireland. I believe mmg has made this island look much better to the international community.

Liam Byrne · 13-10-2011 5:11pm

cosmicfart wrote: »

You cant compare fraudsters with freedom fighters, so dont bother going there.

You can compare common thugs who don't give a crap about innocents, though.

cosmicfart wrote: »

Him and his cronies as u put it were involved in a conflict and prepared to put there lives on the line to defend the place they lived in, I suppose you are of such character that you would just let people walk all over you by the looks of it.

Again with the absolutely false examples - this is getting absolutely ridiculous.

I'll say it once, slowly and clearly

I would not murder anyone innocent

Someone "walking all over me" for absolutely no reason is not "innocent", and I have given very little indication as to how I'd react - the one time I did give an indication I was pulled up for incitement to violence! :rolleyes:

So where you got this "let people walk all over you" crap from is beyond me.
Is that concept sooooooo difficult to understand ?

Bannasidhe · 13-10-2011 5:13pm

RepublicanEagle wrote: »

Most of you people in the south

By which you mean the electorate?

Answer me this - do most of the people in the north understand what is was like to live in a state where Rome had a say in the everyday lives of the citizenry?

Yes - people in the 'south' (we'll ignore the fact that the most northerly point on the island is in the republic shall we...?) are ignorant of life in the 'north' - but equally most people in the 'north' are equally ignorant of the realities of life in the 'south' - it wasn't all sunshine and lollypops you know...

Many have expressed concern that as a life-long resident in the 'north' M McG shares that ignorance...

cosmicfart · 13-10-2011 5:17pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You can compare common thugs who don't give a crap about innocents, though.

Again with the absolutely false examples - this is getting absolutely ridiculous.

I'll say it once, slowly and clearly

I would not murder anyone innocent

Someone "walking all over me" for absolutely no reason is not "innocent", and I have given very little indication as to how I'd react - the one time I did give an indication I was pulled up for incitement to violence! :rolleyes:

So where you got this "let people walk all over you" crap from is beyond me.
Is that concept sooooooo difficult to understand ?

Again you FAIL to grasp why MMG and the IRA were involved in violence. Ill spell it out for you and HOPE you can grasp it. They were forced into it by the British government and all the Loyalist groups up North who were hell bent of ridding the North of nationalists. I have no problem in someone defending the way of life by means of violence if violence is been used against them. there is no point in waving a white flag if someone has a gun and is going to use it on you.

maccored · 13-10-2011 5:17pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Answer me this - do most of the people in the north understand what is was like to live in a state where Rome had a say in the everyday lives of the citizenry?

yes - because in northern catholic societies it was probably even worse than down here. the brothers in the CBS i went to certainly were as crazy as any of the stories of cbs schools down here.

What Has Martin McGuinness Ever Done For The Republic of Ireland?

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