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What Has Martin McGuinness Ever Done For The Republic of Ireland?
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If it wasn't for the IRA, we wouldn't have needed a peace process.
Imagine two candidates.
A joins a violent organisation, encourages bombings shootings etc. Eventually realises this doesn't work, but manages to use this threat to gain political advantage. He stops the bombings and is therefore hailed as a hero of the peace process.
B doesn't join, doesn't encourage violence, therefore can't have an effect on the peace process and doesn't get hailed as a hero.
Which is more deserving of our approval?
Just to expand on my point.
Imagine 1969 in Derry, three options:
A) join violent organisation to try to achieve aim
do nothing
C) use peaceful tactics to try to achieve aim
MMG did A - a real lack of imagination in my book.
If people had done C instead of A, maybe we would be in the same situation we are now, but without 30 years of violence. Martin Luther King won the Nobel peace prize and has a holiday named after him - it's a shame there was no Martin Luther King in NI.
Some societies in NI are very polarised, which has gotten worse because of the conflict. MMG is no closer to achieving his aims, than, say, the SNP in Scotland. So why vote for a failure as president?0 -
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Just to expand on my point.
Imagine 1969 in Derry, three options:
A) join violent organisation to try to achieve aim do nothing
C) use peaceful tactics to try to achieve aim
MMG did A - a real lack of imagination in my book.
If people had done C instead of A, maybe we would be in the same situation we are now, but without 30 years of violence. Martin Luther King won the Nobel peace prize and has a holiday named after him - it's a shame there was no Martin Luther King in NI.
Some societies in NI are very polarised, which has gotten worse because of the conflict. MMG is no closer to achieving his aims, than, say, the SNP in Scotland. So why vote for a failure as president?
Do you know anything about how the Norths troubles erupted ?0 -
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Just to expand on my point.
Imagine 1969 in Derry, three options:
A) join violent organisation to try to achieve aim do nothing
C) use peaceful tactics to try to achieve aim
MMG did A - a real lack of imagination in my book.
If people had done C instead of A, maybe we would be in the same situation we are now, but without 30 years of violence. Martin Luther King won the Nobel peace prize and has a holiday named after him - it's a shame there was no Martin Luther King in NI.
Have you heard of Bloody Sunday?0 -
And can you tell me where in any war or conflict Innocents have not been killed that the combandents have just killed only fellow combandents,as you have previously said you have no problem with that ,its a very unfortunate fact of war/conflict that Innocents will be killed it was then and will be in the future.
It will if people continue to excuse it; the Americans even made up a phrase for it - "collateral damage"
Are we not allowed to strive for better ?
Once upon a time an "unfortunate fact of life" was TB - that has now been as good as eradicated.
Once upon a time an "unfortunate fact of life" for black people or gays was that they got picked on and ridiculed - that, too, has been as good as eradicated.
But that's because very few people sat back and accepted those.
Ironically, with all due respect to those affected by the above, the murder of innocents - which is a far bigger issue - gets "accepted" ?
Not on my watch.0 -
Just to expand on my point.
Imagine 1969 in Derry, three options:
A) join violent organisation to try to achieve aim do nothing
C) use peaceful tactics to try to achieve aim
MMG did A - a real lack of imagination in my book.
If people had done C instead of A, maybe we would be in the same situation we are now, but without 30 years of violence. Martin Luther King won the Nobel peace prize and has a holiday named after him - it's a shame there was no Martin Luther King in NI.
Some societies in NI are very polarised, which has gotten worse because of the conflict. MMG is no closer to achieving his aims, than, say, the SNP in Scotland. So why vote for a failure as president?
Maybe this will help you understand the situation a bit more,one of many British government operations against just one side of the community.
Operation Demetrius (or internment as it is more commonly known) began in Northern Ireland on the morning of Monday 9 August 1971. Operation Demetrius was launched by the British Army and Royal Ulster Constabulary and involved arresting and interning (without trial) people accused of being paramilitary members. During the operation, the British Army killed 11 civilians[ and detained 342 people, leading to widespread protests and rioting. The internment would last from 1971 to 1975.
Internment was reintroduced on the orders of the then Prime Minister of Northern Ireland, Brian Faulkner. The policy of internment had been used a number of times during Northern Ireland's (and the Republic of Ireland's) history.
In the case brought to the European Commission of Human Rights by the Irish government against the British state it was conceded that Operation Demetrius was planned and implemented from the highest levels of the British Government and that specially trained personnel were sent to Northern Ireland to familiarise the local forces in what became known as the 'five techniques'.What they did not include was a single Loyalist. Although the UVF had begun the killing and bombing, this organisation was left untouched, as were other violent Loyalist satellite organisations such as Tara, the Shankill Defence Association and the Ulster Protestant Volunteers.
It is known that Faulkner was urged by the British to include a few Protestants in the trawl but he refused0 -
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Liam Byrne wrote: »It will if people continue to excuse it; the Americans even made up a phrase for it - "collateral damage"
Are we not allowed to strive for better ?
Once upon a time an "unfortunate fact of life" was TB - that has now been as good as eradicated.
Once upon a time an "unfortunate fact of life" for black people or gays was that they got picked on and ridiculed - that, too, has been as good as eradicated.
But that's because very few people sat back and accepted those.
Ironically, with all due respect to those affected by the above, the murder of innocents - which is a far bigger issue - gets "accepted" ?
Not on my watch.
Your not answering my question that was asked,as it has never happened or will happen and where I am sure all the peoples in the world would agree with you that no innocent people be killed,its a pipe dream and not reality and instead of going over & over about what happened do something about it and move on,its hard but it can be done.0 -
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Actually there was a D) Join a civil rights movement. D were a cross community organisation and tryed to achieve civil rights for all people. They were seen as a cover for the IRA by some (paranoid) people and were attacked by A resulting in the deaths of 14 people.Just to expand on my point.
Imagine 1969 in Derry, three options:
A) join violent organisation to try to achieve aim do nothing
C) use peaceful tactics to try to achieve aim
MMG did A - a real lack of imagination in my book.
If people had done C instead of A, maybe we would be in the same situation we are now, but without 30 years of violence. Martin Luther King won the Nobel peace prize and has a holiday named after him - it's a shame there was no Martin Luther King in NI.
Some societies in NI are very polarised, which has gotten worse because of the conflict. MMG is no closer to achieving his aims, than, say, the SNP in Scotland. So why vote for a failure as president?
Whats with you and trying to over simplify history, people don't just get posed with 3 solutions with an obvious right answer.
EDIT: Brain's not working D would fall under c, my point still stands.0 -
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President Bill Clinton's speech on this last week (earlier this week?) was pretty interesting regarding these points.But what about the people who wouldn't invest in Ireland because of "the troubles"? I met loads of people when I travelled a lot in the 80s who once they heard I was from Ireland would always ask me about the IRA. People telling me how they would love to visit Ireland but wouldn't because of the "war". How much money for tourism and investment was lost due to Martin's friends?
It would certainly show how far we've come.
For the most part, the problem with the Presidency is that people feel this way about it; and they're wrong.What on earth can Martin Mcguinness do in the role anyway? From what I hear, it has very little power. To be honest, you should be looking to give more power to the role or scrap it.
I would disagree, the President has much more potential power if used correctly. I would advocate imparting more power on the President in order to have a functional executive branch that isn't already a part of the legislative branch.Liz has far more potential power then any Irish President.
However, with the referendum on Judge's pay which will likely pass, it's more likely we're in for LESS separation of powers than MORE.
Why the electorate would choose to give more power to the idiots in the legislative branch who fecked up everything in the first place is beyond me!
I have to completely agree with you here and my next point goes to the issue of this:Well if Gay Mitchell is to be believed MMcG does not recognise this country and refers to it as the 26 counties. He therefore falls into the camp occupied by some of the posters here who also dont seem to care about the name of the country.
As for my opinion as to what he has done for this country - He has brought huge amounts of pain and despair to a lot of the citizens of this state.
That's a bit harsh isn't it? I mean it's like saying show me a source that proves he is still involved. (which he totally probably is!Can you show a link which proves MMG is no longer in the IRA? Man you love your "links" and "sources".
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