What Has Martin McGuinness Ever Done For The Republic of Ireland?

Liam Byrne

IMO liam your not doing anything about it and are condeming people who are trying to do something about it.

No idea how you reached that conclusion.

The only people I'm condemning are those who are excusing it; if they excuse it then how will it even dawn on them that it needs to be changed?

foggy_lad

maccored wrote: »

this is a political forum on a thread about mmg ... what kind of conversation were you expecting? Plus theres no point equating clerical abuse in the south and the violence in the north ... two completely different things. also, Im sure if you researched it you'd find the catholic church werent much different in the north than they were here.

It is more about trying to find out what he has done in the 26 counties or for the people of Ireland whom he hopes to represent as our president

KELTICKNIGHTT

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is more about trying to find out what he has done in the 26 counties or for the people of Ireland whom he hopes to represent as our president

MMG has done sweet nothing for ireland and 26 couties of Ireland, and he won't,,,,,all he's interested is the north,everyone knows that but the sf supporters.

Bannasidhe

maccored wrote: »

this is a political forum on a thread about mmg ... what kind of conversation were you expecting? Plus theres no point equating clerical abuse in the south and the violence in the north ... two completely different things. also, Im sure if you researched it you'd find the catholic church werent much different in the north than they were here.

Then deal with the question asked - what has M McG done in the 26 counties - leaving aside NI for one moment of you can - that he now asks us, the electorate of those same 26 counties to vote for him?

Happyman42

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Then deal with the question asked - what has M McG done in the 26 counties - leaving aside NI for one moment of you can - that he now asks us, the electorate of those same 26 counties to vote for him?

If you believe, as I do, that the trouble in the North was inevitable, that it was a pressure pot that was going to explode as the Catholic middle class grew and got itself educated, then McG has done us all a tremendous service.
Because while Kelticnight and others may attempt to separate the island when it suits them, the fact is that the strife in the North was always going to pull the south down.
The fractious nature of debate on here shows that people have not dealt with the issues surrounding out particular partition.
McGuinness brokered the peace in the North and now, by running for president he is forcing the debate about 'who we are' in the south.
For me, that is deeply deeply satisfying and a worthy and substantial thing to do. Just watching the run to the hills amid civil war rhetoric and surrender monkey side of the mouthery is fascinating in itself and worth the presidential tilt.

Bannasidhe

Happyman42 wrote: »

If you believe, as I do, that the trouble in the North was inevitable, that it was a pressure pot that was going to explode as the Catholic middle class grew and got itself educated, then McG has done the us all a tremendous service.
Because while Kelticnight and others may attempt to separate the island when it suits them, the fact is that the strife in the North was always going to pull the south down.
The fractious nature of debate on here shows that people have not dealt with the issues surrounding out particular partition.
McGuinness brokered the peace in the North and now, by running for president he is forcing the debate about 'who we are' in the south.
For me, that is deeply deeply satisfying and a worthy and substantial thing to do. Just watching the run to the hills amid civil war rhetoric and surrender monkey side of the mouthery is fascinating in itself and worth the presidential tilt.

I would agree that strife in NI was always going to spread across the border and add that I believe Partition was always going to impact negatively on the development of the 26 counties - however, what annoys the living daylights out of me is the non-engagement by M McG supporters with issues which affected life in Éire (pendants happy now?), as if everything in NI was absolute ****e while 'down here' it was all happy clappy dancing at the crossroads - No it bloody wasn't!!! This tendency, coupled with their candidates overwhelming emphasis on NI, leads me to the conclusion that M McG is not particularly aware of or interested in 'southern' issues and is using the presidency simply as part of pushing the 32 county agenda.

Happyman42

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I would agree that strife in NI was always going to spread across the border and add that I believe Partition was always going to impact negatively on the development of the 26 counties - however, what annoys the living daylights out of me is the non-engagement by M McG supporters with issues which affected life in Éire (pendants happy now?), as if everything in NI was absolute ****e while 'down here' it was all happy clappy dancing at the crossroads - No it bloody wasn't!!! This tendency, coupled with their candidates overwhelming emphasis on NI, leads me to the conclusion that M McG is not particularly aware of or interested in 'southern' issues and is using the presidency simply as part of pushing the 32 county agenda.

Why are you surprised that a party that has an unapologetic United Ireland agenda would deal with issues on a 32 county basis?
The NI part of their agenda has gradually disappeared from their rhetoric anyway since the GFA and peace has taken hold.
Witness, Pearse Doherty, you'd have to squint to see him as a typical SFer.
Make no mistake about it, McG will see himself as President of a 32 county Ireland as he is entitled to do under the GFA. It just won't be a united 32 county Ireland....yet.

foggy_lad

Happyman42 wrote: »

Why are you surprised that a party that has an unapologetic United Ireland agenda would deal with issues on a 32 county basis?
The NI part of their agenda has gradually disappeared from their rhetoric anyway since the GFA and peace has taken hold.
Witness, Pearse Doherty, you'd have to squint to see him as a typical SFer.
Make no mistake about it, McG will see himself as President of a 32 county Ireland as he is entitled to do under the GFA. It just won't be a united 32 county Ireland....yet.

Dealing with presidential issues on a 32 county level could be viewed as unconstitutional because the country is only 26 counties and to utter or imply otherwise is not only offensive but disrespecting the constitution.

Mr.Micro

Happyman42 wrote: »

Make no mistake about it, McG will see himself as President of a 32 county Ireland as he is entitled to do under the GFA. It just won't be a united 32 county Ireland....yet.

In his dreams and then he woke up. What a nightmare scenario. Poor Marty is just not feeling the love. Marty wants carte blanche or else.

Happyman42

foggy_lad wrote: »

Dealing with presidential issues on a 32 county level could be viewed as unconstitutional because the country is only 26 counties and to utter or imply otherwise is not only offensive but disrespecting the constitution.

Dealing with it as a United 32 County Ireland would be unconstitutional, however that is not what I said.
Under the GFA (an agreement binding the governments of Britain and Ireland to it terms,) every citizen has the right to see themselves as 'citizens' of Ireland and it will be this constituency that McGuinness won't ignore as Irish President and more power to him, I say.

Mr.Micro

foggy_lad wrote: »

Dealing with presidential issues on a 32 county level could be viewed as unconstitutional because the country is only 26 counties and to utter or imply otherwise is not only offensive but disrespecting the constitution.

You just cannot get through to some people FL. Not happy with being allowed to run in the race Marty has to bring in the issue of the counties to 32 counties. Are the good people of NI voting for Marty as well? Talk about brain washing or what....

Happyman42

Mr.Micro wrote: »

You just cannot get through to some people FL. Not happy with being allowed to run in the race Marty has to bring in the issue of the counties to 32 counties. Are the good people of NI voting for Marty as well? Talk about brain washing or what....

Could you make sense please?

Bannasidhe

Happyman42 wrote: »

Why are you surprised that a party that has an unapologetic United Ireland agenda would deal with issues on a 32 county basis?
The NI part of their agenda has gradually disappeared from their rhetoric anyway since the GFA and peace has taken hold.
Witness, Pearse Doherty, you'd have to squint to see him as a typical SFer.
Make no mistake about it, McG will see himself as President of a 32 county Ireland as he is entitled to do under the GFA. It just won't be a united 32 county Ireland....yet.

I have listened very carefully to what McGuinness has to say - I hear the formulaic 'bring jobs'/ represent the people/up hold the Constitution aul guff- same as all the other candidates there and to be expected- however, the only time I heard him really engaged is when he is discussing NI. I am waiting (hoping!) he will really engage with us - the poor sods who live in the 26 counties. I'm sorry - I'm just not hearing it...

I was also hoping someone here would convince me I was mistaken - but all I see is the usual NI focus. Look, I know it was ****e in NI - I was up there often enough during the Troubles to at least get a glimpse of everyday life. But as I have said - we had our own ****e going on down here and I just don't think McGuinness seems aware of that.

If I were a cynical person (:P) I would posit that McGuinness doesn't want to win (and leave his beloved Derry) but that he is acting as a stalking horse for a future SF bid for the presidency - let all the anti -PIRA flak be fired now then run a 'southern' candidate next time - one who has not been 'tainted' by association with paramilitaries...

KELTICKNIGHTT

Happyman42 wrote: »

If you believe, as I do, that the trouble in the North was inevitable, that it was a pressure pot that was going to explode as the Catholic middle class grew and got itself educated, then McG has done us all a tremendous service.
Because while Kelticnight and others may attempt to separate the island when it suits them, the fact is that the strife in the North was always going to pull the south down.
The fractious nature of debate on here shows that people have not dealt with the issues surrounding out particular partition.
McGuinness brokered the peace in the North and now, by running for president he is forcing the debate about 'who we are' in the south.
For me, that is deeply deeply satisfying and a worthy and substantial thing to do. Just watching the run to the hills amid civil war rhetoric and surrender monkey side of the mouthery is fascinating in itself and worth the presidential tilt.

Don't agree with this same sein fein propaganda we in south have been hearing for long ,long time,MOST SEIN FEIN can't accept what fact is island has 2 parts,one is state of Ireland and northern Ireland which is part of united kingdom till people and all the people decide in majority to change
mcguinnes caused the troubles with others in north and mcguinness had no choice but to get the good friday agreement in place,we all can remember the length it too to get all parties too agree to that.
sein fein and mmg are there own worst enemies .
nothing has changed in over 30 years in sein feins fascist views and can be seen in its supporters.

Happyman42

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I have listened very carefully to what McGuinness has to say - I hear the formulaic 'bring jobs'/ represent the people/up hold the Constitution aul guff- same as all the other candidates there and to be expected- however, the only time I heard him really engaged is when he is discussing NI. I am waiting (hoping!) he will really engage with us - the poor sods who live in the 26 counties. I'm sorry - I'm just not hearing it...

What are the other candidates saying that is engaging you?

And I agree, SF are not expecting to win this in the sense that they will be repainting the Aras. But they will be the real winners electorally. Smart as knives electoral and political strategy.

Happyman42

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

Don't agree with this same sein fein propaganda we in south have been hearing for long ,long time,MOST SEIN FEIN can't accept what fact is island has 2 parts,one is state of Ireland and northern Ireland which is part of united kingdom till people and all the people decide in majority to change
mcguinnes caused the troubles with others in north and mcguinness had no choice but to get the good friday agreement in place,we all can remember the length it too to get all parties too agree to that.
sein fein and mmg are there own worst enemies .
nothing has changed in over 30 years in sein feins fascist views and can be seen in its supporters.

I'm surprised you would say that. :rolleyes:

p.s. can I ask you something.....is there a comic, satirical reason why you can't seem to spell Sinn? Am I missing something?

Bannasidhe

Happyman42 wrote: »

What are the other candidates saying that is engaging you?

And I agree, SF are not expecting to win this in the sense that they will be repainting the Aras. But they will be the real winners electorally. Smart as knives electoral and political strategy.

Initially, I was interested in Gallagher - however, I now think he has been less then honest about his continued involvement with FF - not that he continued after he 'left' them but that he fudged the issue so much. The revelations about the whole farce re: Louth enterprise board and the 20,000 just leaves me with the impression that this is the same old FF dodgy crap. So he is out.

I do admire Higgin's political record on civil rights issues here and I think he is the only one who has demonstrated a genuine knowledge of the role of the presidency. Yes, he is being Mr All Things to All People - but does that not go to the heart of the office? A unifier rather than a divider.

Norris - I do admire his work on civil rights, but I would prefer to see him remain in the Seanad being a mouthy trouble maker then gagged by being in the Áras. And someone needs to balance Ronan Mullins...

Dana - .......has she actually read that book she keeps whipping out?

Davis ......Vanity candidate. Little substance.

Mitchell - what were FG thinking?

KELTICKNIGHTT

Happyman42 wrote: »

I'm surprised you would say that. :rolleyes:

p.s. can I ask you something.....is there a comic, satirical reason why you can't seem to spell Sinn? Am I missing something?

WHY do you come back with these type of comments ?
maybe not to answer the post maybe.

Happyman42

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

WHY do you come back with these type of comments ?
maybe not to answer the post maybe.

Because you say the same thing every time you post and it has been answered over and over again.
I have nothing to say to somebody who keeps saying 'liar' and cannot prove that the person is a liar.

Happyman42

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Initially, I was interested in Gallagher - however, I now think he has been less then honest about his continued involvement with FF - not that he continued after he 'left' them but that he fudged the issue so much. The revelations about the whole farce re: Louth enterprise board and the 20,000 just leaves me with the impression that this is the same old FF dodgy crap. So he is out.

I do admire Higgin's political record on civil rights issues here and I think he is the only one who has demonstrated a genuine knowledge of the role of the presidency. Yes, he is being Mr All Things to All People - but does that not go to the heart of the office? A unifier rather than a divider.

Norris - I do admire his work on civil rights, but I would prefer to see him remain in the Seanad being a mouthy trouble maker then gagged by being in the Áras. And someone needs to balance Ronan Mullins...

Dana - .......has she actually read that book she keeps whipping out?

Davis ......Vanity candidate. Little substance.

Mitchell - what were FG thinking?

Fair enough, but I think you are being a tad harsh on McG. He has plenty to say on the Constitution and has actually gotten his hands dirty, dealing with Human Rights issues. (even if you don't agree with his methods, parity of esteem and equality has been achieved)
What has Norris ever said of import about Northern Ireland discrimination?

Carlos Orange

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If I were a cynical person (:P) I would posit that McGuinness doesn't want to win (and leave his beloved Derry) but that he is acting as a stalking horse for a future SF bid for the presidency - let all the anti -PIRA flak be fired now then run a 'southern' candidate next time - one who has not been 'tainted' by association with paramilitaries...

I thought he was tainted for being a paramilitary. Next one will be tainted by association.

Happyman42

psinno wrote: »

I thought he was tainted for being a paramilitary. Next one will be tainted by association.

That's Southern denial heading for a fall right there. ^ ^

Carlos Orange

Happyman42 wrote: »

That's Southern denial heading for a fall right there. ^ ^

What exactly did I deny?

KELTICKNIGHTT

Happyman42 wrote: »

Because you say the same thing every time you post and it has been answered over and over again.
I have nothing to say to somebody who keeps saying 'liar' and cannot prove that the person is a liar.

HE was called a liar on rte news during the week by son of paddy Kelly, Irish defense forces soldier, who was murdered ,David Kelly asked him where the PIRA murdering killers where and Marty Mcguinness denied knowing anything and d,kelly called Him a liar,MMG has denied alot of thing which most people even around the world don't believe him, mmg is known Liar
So it's up to MMG and supporters to prove otherwise but guess what people in south don't believe a ex-terrorist.

Happyman42

psinno wrote: »

What exactly did I deny?

That Sinn Fein are coming.

KELTICKNIGHTT

Happyman42 wrote: »

That's Southern denial heading for a fall right there. ^ ^

Why didn't you run as candidate instead of MMG ?

KELTICKNIGHTT

Happyman42 wrote: »

That Sinn Fein are coming.

So will take few decades more for them to fix their gps

alphabeat

until he shoots himself in the head .. zilch.

foggy_lad

Happyman42 wrote: »

Dealing with it as a United 32 County Ireland would be unconstitutional, however that is not what I said.
Under the GFA (an agreement binding the governments of Britain and Ireland to it terms,) every citizen has the right to see themselves as 'citizens' of 26 county Ireland and it will be this constituency that McGuinness won't ignore as Irish President and more power to him, I say.

Just as long as he forgets about those in Londonderry and the rest of the North as he is not their president, he will be president of the Ireland not including Northern Ireland!

We just have to look at the language being used by sinn fein supporters and it is very clear that the conflict is far from over for many people and the balaclava and gun are only stuffed down the back of the sofa. When any group of people repeat the same mantra over and over it is a sign of brainwashing not truth or facts.

jank

Liam Byrne wrote: »

It will if people continue to excuse it; the Americans even made up a phrase for it - "collateral damage"

Are we not allowed to strive for better ?

Once upon a time an "unfortunate fact of life" was TB - that has now been as good as eradicated.

Once upon a time an "unfortunate fact of life" for black people or gays was that they got picked on and ridiculed - that, too, has been as good as eradicated.

But that's because very few people sat back and accepted those.

Ironically, with all due respect to those affected by the above, the murder of innocents - which is a far bigger issue - gets "accepted" ?

Not on my watch.

Frankly Liam are you a dreamer and an idealist. You dont live in the real world. You think the world should be perfect and if its not you give out about it. Nobody wanted what occured in the north to happen, but it did for reasons already explained countless times. One can chose to accept the facts or not but to dream up some alternative reality is facile tbh.