National Beer & Cheese Weekend, 27-31 October

BeerNut

Over the bank holiday weekend, Bord Bia are organising a series of events around the country about Irish farmhouse cheese and craft beer.

More details, and a list of events, are here.

redlead

BeerNut wrote: »

Over the bank holiday weekend, Bord Bia are organising a series of events around the country about Irish farmhouse cheese and craft beer.

More details, and a list of events, are here.

I still haven't bought into the whole beer and cheese thing. I love both but I still think some nice red wine compliments a good cheese much better. In saying that any excuse to have some great Irish craft beer and cheese will be taken by this poster!

noby

There's nothing to buy in to. No one is trying to suggest that wine and cheese is wrong, or beer and cheese is better.
The whole idea is for people to try different combinations, and you might be pleasantly surprised at how well some of the pairings work.

BeerNut

noby wrote: »

No one is trying to suggest that wine and cheese is wrong

So the first question in your quiz isn't going to be "Wine and cheese or beer and cheese?"

redlead

noby wrote: »

There's nothing to buy in to. No one is trying to suggest that wine and cheese is wrong, or beer and cheese is better.
The whole idea is for people to try different combinations, and you might be pleasantly surprised at how well some of the pairings work.

There is something to buy into because there are often beer and cheese events organised where as you would never see a coca cola and cheese event (although nothing would surprise me).

I recently bought the same cheese which Dungarvan Brewing used with their beers at a recent festival to see how they complimented each other. I loved both products because they are both individually delicious but didn't really see how the cheese chosen for Copper Coast complimented that beer and the cheese chosen for Helvick Gold complimented that beer. If you swapped the cheeses around, I still would have enjoyed them all just as much. I just think wine is the drink which compliments cheese the most but that's just my opinion. Perhaps it will change if I go to the event and it's explained to me more.

noby

That's fair enough - you tried and it wasn't for you. That's all it is - hence there's nothing to buy in to. There's no big secret. Yes, someone could point out the dominant flavours and why they think they would compliment each other - but ultimately it's down to personal taste.
But it's all about getting people to try. You did, and hopefully more people will.

BaZmO*

I'd have to agree with redlead on this one. I love my beer, and I love my cheese. I also love my wine, but for me the only combination that really works is the wine and cheese one.

I've a suspicion that the beer and cheese "thing" that redlead is pointing out is a slightly cynical hijacking of the seemingly high brow association that one conjures up when thinking of cheese & wine, thereby trying to nullify the common perception that beer is for louts. I'd prefer if another more suitable pairing was established, which is fairness, is being done in a lot of places.

BeerNut

I don't think it's that. Part of it is that beer and cheese have a natural affinity: both are based on fermented grass. The other is that both are made here. You don't support much native Irish industry by buying wine. According to the Bord Bia blurb[PDF], it's hard to find wine to go with washed-rind cheese, but beer works.

BaZmO*

BeerNut wrote: »

Part of it is that beer and cheese have a natural affinity: both are based on fermented grass.

Haha, I think you may be stretching the affinity a tad bit.

BeerNut wrote: »

The other is that both are made here. You don't support much native Irish industry by buying wine. According to the Bord Bia blurb[PDF], it's hard to find wine to go with washed-rind cheese, but beer works.

True, but personally I don't think it's a good enough reason to say that they're a match. In some cases they do pair but it's no way as near a perfect match as you'd get with cheese and wine.

BeerNut wrote: »

You don't support much native Irish industry by buying wine.

I get this, and it is important to support Irish craft foods, extremely important in fact, but for me it's too forced. There are plenty of other excellent types of food that are produced in Ireland that would work better......imo

BeerNut

BaZmO* wrote: »

In some cases they do pair but it's no way as near a perfect match as you'd get with cheese and wine.

So, hang on: "cheese and wine" match perfectly, but only "some" beers pair with cheese? It reads like you're criticising beer for being more diverse than wine. Of course, when you have something as wide-ranging in flavour and texture as beer, you're going to get more mismatches than you are with wine. But you're also going to get matches that wine can't do.

BaZmO* wrote: »

but for me it's too forced

There were probably saying that about the whole wine and cheese thing in the '70s. Calvita and Piat D'Or, anyone? :P

BaZmO*

BeerNut wrote: »

So, hang on: "cheese and wine" match perfectly, but only "some" beers pair with cheese? It reads like you're criticising beer for being more diverse than wine.

Whoah, Whoah, Whoah!!! When did I EVER criticise beer!!!
I just don't think that when a beer matches with a cheese it's anywhere as good as when a wine matches with cheese, and it general, wine matches better.

BeerNut wrote: »

But you're also going to get matches that wine can't do.

Such as?

BeerNut wrote: »

There were probably saying that about the whole wine and cheese thing in the '70s. Calvita and Piat D'Or, anyone? :P

Doubt it. Wine and cheese pairings go back much further than the 70's

noby

I think both wine and cheese and beer and cheese can lay claim to a history that pre-dates the '70s.

A farm labourer ate and drank what was local, which in these parts was more likely to be beer and cheese, or perhaps cider and cheese - hence the ploughman's lunch. If you happened to live around the med that was more likely to consist of wine and cheese, amongst others.

Again, and I don't want to labour the point, it all comes down to personal preference, but I don't think it's a cynical hijacking, more a promotion of something that some people think go rather well together, me included.

BeerNut

BaZmO* wrote: »

I just don't think that when a beer matches with a cheese it's anywhere as good as when a wine matches with cheese

Ah OK, I picked you up wrong. I don't know how to judge the comparative merit of these things. I'm a big fan of heavy red wine (St. Emillion, Rioja, Shiraz) with bleu d'Auvergne. But I was also amazed by Williams IPA with Wexford cheddar. However, I have not had enough cheese, beer or wine to be able to make a statement on which pairing works better than the other.

BaZmO* wrote: »

Such as?

Going back to the washed rind thing. This site offers some suspiciously diverse wine pairings, before settling on beer.

BaZmO* wrote: »

Wine and cheese pairings go back much further than the 70's

But were they being forced? Beer and cheese pairings go back pretty far too. Several of Belgium's trappist monasteries produce cheese as well as beer.

BaZmO*

BaZmO* wrote: »

I also love my wine, but for me the only combination that really works is the wine and cheese one.

BaZmO* wrote: »

I get this, and it is important to support Irish craft foods, extremely important in fact, but for me it's too forced. There are plenty of other excellent types of food that are produced in Ireland that would work better......imo

BaZmO* wrote: »

I just don't think that when a beer matches with a cheese it's anywhere as good as when a wine matches with cheese, and it general, wine matches better.

noby wrote: »

Again, and I don't want to labour the point, it all comes down to personal preference

Indeed!

noby wrote: »

but I don't think it's a cynical hijacking, more a promotion of something that some people think go rather well together, me included.

Maybe using the word "hijacking" was a bit harsh but I certainly think there's a point to me made about trying to marry the two with one eye being on the association that the cheese and wine pairing holds.

Think about though. After the Beer Festival in the RDS, there was a point made about there being more food stands next year, how many of those people were asking for more cheese stands?

BeerNut

BaZmO* wrote: »

how many of those people were asking for more cheese stands?

Not many I'm sure. When I'm wandering around a beer festival I'd rather have a pie or a hotdog to eat -- something portable. I prefer to eat cheese while sitting down and taking my time. I suspect other people do too. If there was a tutored beer and cheese tasting, though, I think I'd go to that.

noby

Yes, and maybe that point is taking smething that is generally accepted (wine and cheese) and saying to people: did you know that beer and cheese can work just as well? I see it as a good thing to take someone out of their 'comfort zone' by saying it's not just wine that works well with cheese.
Plus, there's substance behind it.


The last beer and cheese tasting I did was with a well-known, and well-respected, cheesemonger. He said that since doing his first beer and cheese tasting he has stopped doing wine and cheese tastings. He also said that he is yet to find a beer that pairs well with washed-rind cheese, but much prefers a dry cider.

So, coming next month: forget beer and cheese, cider and cheese is where it's at!

BaZmO*

BeerNut wrote: »

Not many I'm sure. When I'm wandering around a beer festival I'd rather have a pie or a hotdog to eat -- something portable. I prefer to eat cheese while sitting down and taking my time. I suspect other people do too.

That's my point though, it's not seen as something that pairs well, for rightly or wrongly.

BeerNut wrote: »

If there was a tutored beer and cheese tasting, though, I think I'd go to that.

Me too I suppose, but it's not something that'd be a clincher for me. I'd much prefer if there many other food stands to choose from.

Just for the record though, I'd love to be proven wrong on this one.

noby

BaZmO* wrote: »

Think about though. After the Beer Festival in the RDS, there was a point made about there being more food stands next year, how many of those people were asking for more cheese stands?

Some, but not many. But, you could get a selection of about a half dozen or more different cheeses at the RDS, so it was other foods that were lacking.

BeerNut

BaZmO* wrote: »

it's not seen as something that pairs well, for rightly or wrongly.

And craft beer is not seen as being better than mass-produced beer, rightly or wrongly. Events like the RDS festival and the Beer & Cheese weekend are there to point these things out to people, because they often aren't aware of them. And of course to let them make up their own minds. If it was just a question of giving punters what they already want, a Guinness tap and a Heineken tap would have us covered.

BaZmO*

BeerNut wrote: »

And craft beer is not seen as being better than mass-produced beer, rightly or wrongly. Events like the RDS festival and the Beer & Cheese weekend are there to point these things out to people, because they often aren't aware of them. And of course to let them make up their own minds. If it was just a question of giving punters what they already want, a Guinness tap and a Heineken tap would have us covered.

I agree with you in principle lads, but I'd be more concerned about the promotion of craft beer rather than the cheese side of things. And with that in mind, I think that if you want to promote beer you need to make it more accessible to people and pairing it with cheese is the wrong way to go in my opinion. It's a nice "crafty" gourmet way to go but you'll just be preaching to converted, i.e. the foody types. If you want to attract the numbers that would make a real difference I'd say a better selection of foods would be the way to go.

BeerNut

BaZmO* wrote: »

you'll just be preaching to converted, i.e. the foody types.

Couldn't disagree more with this. Beer does not have the place it deserves among the foody types. The foodies' periodical of choice is called Food and Wine Magazine. No newspaper carries a regular beer column, though we've started to see irregular beer corners in some of them. Until very recently none of the top-flight restaurants in the country paid any attention to the beers it stocked, and you'd still be hard pressed to find one that puts the care and attention into its selection and listing of beer that it does with its wine.

The foodies are not converted. Part of Bord Bia's remit is to try and bring the food and drink we produce here to their attention.

BaZmO*

If you look at the type of person that drinks beer, they'd be more prone to having a burger with their beer than having cheese. Giving them cheese would not act as an encouragement to go to these types of event. Is the promotion about getting cheese eaters to drink beer or is it getting beer drinkers to drink craft beer?

BeerNut

BaZmO* wrote: »

If you look at the type of person that drinks beer, they'd be more prone to having a burger with their beer than having cheese.

They'd also be more prone -- hugely so -- to drinking Guinness or Heineken than any of that poncy craft stuff. And I say all the best to them: no-one wants to lure them away from what they like to eat and drink (except Diageo and Heineken who are desperate to attract each other's customers).

BaZmO* wrote: »

Giving them cheese would not act as an encouragement to go to these types of event

Cunningly, by the time the cheese is produced, they're already at the event! One nil to Bord Bia. Check and mate.

BaZmO* wrote: »

Is the promotion about getting cheese eaters to drink beer

This.

BaZmO* wrote: »

is it getting beer drinkers to drink craft beer?

And this.

And getting people who go to farmers' markets, delis, restaurants and pubs to try Irish artisan cheese and Irish craft beer.

BaZmO*

BeerNut wrote: »

And getting people who go to farmers' markets, delis, restaurants and pubs to try Irish artisan cheese and Irish craft beer.

Ok, so maybe I missed the point of what they're trying to do, they're aiming for the foody types rather than beer drinkers.

It still ties into one of my original points about it about the cheese and wine association.

BeerNut

BaZmO* wrote: »

they're aiming for the foody types rather than beer drinkers.

They're trying to turn the foody types into beer drinkers. And into cheese eaters.

BaZmO*

BeerNut wrote: »

They're trying to turn the foody types into beer drinkers. And into cheese eaters.

Would foody types not be cheese eaters anyway?

BeerNut

BaZmO* wrote: »

Would foody types not be cheese eaters anyway?

I don't think your labels like "foody types" and "cheese eaters" are very helpful, nor reflect the reality of the Irish people who eat food.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who enjoy cheese who aren't familiar with the various types that Ireland produces. This event is intended to show them what's available, and maybe give them a taste of ones that they ordinarily might not consider buying.

Replace the word "cheese" above with "beer" and you get another purpose of the event.

BaZmO*

BeerNut wrote: »

I don't think your labels like "foody types" and "cheese eaters" are very helpful, nor reflect the reality of the Irish people who eat food.

Why are you getting so uptight? You'd swear I was calling them cheese monkeys or something derogatory. It was only a descriptive term.

BeerNut wrote: »

I'm sure there are plenty of people who enjoy cheese who aren't familiar with the various types that Ireland produces. This event is intended to show them what's available, and maybe give them a taste of ones that they ordinarily might not consider buying.

Replace the word "cheese" above with "beer" and you get another purpose of the event.

I'll just reiterate my original point that I don't really think that cheese and beer go as well together as wine and cheese and leave it at that.

BeerNut

BaZmO* wrote: »

Why are you getting so uptight?

I'm not at all. I'm just saying that your labels don't reflect reality.

schemingbohemia

BaZmO* wrote: »

I'll just reiterate my original point that I don't really think that cheese and beer don't go as well together and leave it at that.

Please do, I think you've said it 20 times already.

Corsendonk

Fact is that Bord Bia don't have any Irish wine producers to pair up with the cheese. There is one or two guys who grow vines for the novelty factor but not enough for an event like this hence the beer and cheese.