Rainwater system for drinking water and showering?

paddy147

Can a rainwater harvesting system (underground tanks) be used for drinking water and showering too??

Im looking into this,as a next step of being energy effiecent.

These "IMF" water meters are deffinately comming in,so Im thinking about getting a rainwater system.

Anyone have any experience in this field and could anyone reccomend a company,that they have dealt with over this matter?

Thanks.:)

BryanF

paddy147 wrote: »

Can a rainwater harvesting system (underground tanks) be used for drinking water and showering too??

Im looking into this,as a next step of being energy effiecent.

These "IMF" water meters are deffinately comming in,so Im thinking about getting a rainwater system.

Anyone have any experience in this field and could anyone reccomend a company,that they have dealt with over this matter?

Thanks.:)

Hi paddy,
there are plenty of RWH systems out there, including one or two that can go in your attic (gravity feed). but most are typically used for grey water so you need to be checking out the cost/ + risks of filtration systems if you wish to drink the stuff:)

paddy147

I was speaking to a chap today in my house,who said that he could install a plastic 6000 litre underground tank in my back garden,it would contain a 1/2 watt water pump,and then install a special filtration system and UV sterilizer and water pressure system in the garage,that would allow the water to be used for drinking,showering,cooking,cleaning and the fish tanks too.Bascily for everything water related.

The system would be hooked up to the mains water pipe that goes up to the attic tank,and that the system would allow the mains water to kick in,when the rainwater level went below a certain level in the underground rainwater tank.


He said that the water quality would be same as,if not better quality than what Dublin City Council currently supply,and it would 110% drinkable.

Hes due to come back to me with an exact price in the next week,but he rekons roughly around 4.5 euro for the supply and instalation/commisioning of the system.

If such a system would cost 4.5K euro,then would it be a worthwhile investment then,wth these water meters comming in next year???



What do you think of the above??

Thanks.:)

BryanF

paddy147 wrote: »

I was speaking to a chap today in my house,who said that he could install a plastic 6000 litre underground tank in my back garden,it would contain a 1/2 watt water pump,and then install a special filtration system and UV sterilizer and water pressure system in the garage,that would allow the water to be used for drinking,showering,cooking,cleaning and the fish tanks too.Bascily for everything water related.

The system would be hooked up to the mains water pipe that goes up to the attic tank,and that the system would allow the mains water to kick in,when the rainwater level went below a certain level in the tank.


He said that the water quaity would be same as,if not better quality than what Dublin City Council currently supply,and it would 110% drinkable.

Hes due to come back to me with a price in the next week,but he rekons around 4.5 euro for the supply and instalation/commisioning of the system.



What do you think of the above then??

sounds OK! i generally tell people to budget about 5k,

there are some environmentalist that would argue that the Embodied energy of everyone installing a tank is much greater than using the main supply, but then in their calc'c that probably doesn't include <50% water loss by the council:rolleyes:... have you approximated the the payback?

I'd bow to someone with more knowledge of the filter side of things TBH:)
its interesting that you still require the mains back-up! i wonder if you: calculated your monthly or better bi-annual water usage V your catchment, projected rainfall and storage capacity how it would work out?

paddy147

BryanF wrote: »

sounds OK! i generally tell people to budget about 5k,

there are some environmentalist that would argue that the Embodied energy of everyone installing a tank is much greater than using the main supply, but then in their calc'c that probably doesn't include <50% water loss by the council:rolleyes:... have you approximated the the payback?

I'd bow to someone with more knowledge of the filter side of things TBH:)
its interesting that you still require the mains back-up! i wonder if you: calculated your monthly or better bi-annual water usage V your catchment, projected rainfall and storage capacity how it would work out?

I dont know about payback,as no one knows what the water rates will be??

But knowing the IMF and Enda Kenny,the water rates will probably keep on rising every year that passes by.


The chap said that the mains water would be there as a back up,if ever the tanks ran below a certain level of rainwater,or if we ever had a propper long dry summer (I wish).

BryanF

paddy147 wrote: »

The chap said that the mains water would be there as a back up,if ever the tanks ran below a certain level of rainwater,or if we ever had a propper long dry summer (I wish).

but sure then your still paying the 'IMF and Enda Kenny':) at least for the annual flat fee!

paddy147

BryanF wrote: »

but sure then your still paying the 'IMF and Enda Kenny':) at least for the annual flat fee!

I know,but once all these domestic meters are installed,then the sh!t will hit the fan for alot of households.


My heart and head is saying go for it and get it installed,but part of my brain and "wallet" is saying dont do it.

I really dont know???:D

CatFromHue

I was thinking of installing a rainwater system just for the toilets during the summer. It is a great idea but whether it's a financially good idea is a different story.

If they bring in water meters it could be a good option, if they bring in a flat fee it would still be a good idea but financially pointless to the user. To install the water meters could take a long time and a lot of work. We all know how govts work in relation to work!

I'd say look into it and get prices etc. but wait until the budget is announced to see if it's viable. Once you have the costing to install it you should be able to work out the payback if the govt announce water metering.

One thing I have found though is that every time it buckets down rain all I can think if is that I could be harvesting that!

youtheman

I think the first thing to consider is how your house is plumbed. In my house the only water taken directly from the mains is the kitchen sink. All other cold feeds (upstairs sinks etc) are taken from the header tank. So if I feed the header tank with rain water then it will supply all my hot water, and all showers, W.C.s and sinks EXCEPT the kitchen sink. So I'll be showering in rain water, washing my teeth in rain water, flusing the toliet, but not drinking it or ingesting it with my food. This, I think, is an acceptable solution from a health point of view. Plus it is a relatively simple plumbing modification.

BryanF

paddy, you know this 1/2 watt water pump, if this is ( as suggested by Youtheman) pumping al water to the header tank what's this going to cost you in elec?

paddy147

BryanF wrote: »

paddy, you know this 1/2 watt water pump, if this is ( as suggested by Youtheman) pumping al water to the header tank what's this going to cost you in elec?

Thats a very good question and something I wouldnt have thought of.

Thanks.:)

heinbloed

A half Watt per hour is how much per hour?

@ paddy147:
Contact a health and safety engineer about the hygenic situation. Otherwise you'll be sold a "solar system" again (smiley).

paddy147

heinbloed wrote: »

A half Watt per hour is how much per hour?

@ paddy147:
Contact a health and safety engineer about the hygenic situation. Otherwise you'll be sold a "solar system" again (smiley).

Thanks,and I love my solar panel system.:D

antiskeptic

a half watt pump? Sounds a bit on the low side (think DIY Bosch drill at 900 watts then divide by 1800)

Carlow52

Paddy: no pictures:)

proceed with caution re the production of potable water, there are regs out there about having it tested etc, will try find the link and revert. { Google BS8515:2009 ]

However I dont see the potable testing issues raised in the first few links

The 1/2 watt pump is nonsense....

On the UV there are a few issues

the better the physical filtration, the better the UV will work.

You also need to size the UV for the flow. higher flow = bigger lamp.

The lamps last about 8000 hrs and u do need to know if they are not working, u cannot look at them, or at least not twice with naked eye.

Ease of replacement, cost, availability are all issues

This link is just to get u startedhttp://www.purion.de/en/index.php
Its NOT a recommendation so if it falls foul of the site rules pls delete it

harry21

Paddy, I'd be very cautious about using it for drinking. Stagnant water can be a deadly thing, especially if it is kept in an underground tank, where temperatures are higher.

The UV systems I assume filter the water prior to it being pumped and then being used, but I remain skeptical.

I am very in favour of using it for non-potable consumption including washing.

P.S. Does a ban mean you can't read a post or just can't reply. See you in a few days!!

Carlow52

harry21 wrote: »

Paddy, I'd be very cautious about using it for drinking. Stagnant water can be a deadly thing, especially if it is kept in an underground tank, where temperatures are higher.

The UV systems I assume filter the water prior to it being pumped and then being used, but I remain skeptical.

I am very in favour of using it for non-potable consumption including washing.

P.S. Does a ban mean you can't read a post or just can't reply. See you in a few days!!

How do you make this out

where temperatures are higher

Joey the lips

I am very interested in these. Its something i want to investigate for practical reasons as well as environmental reasons.

I am reading up on everything at the moment and 2 things spring to mind.

1. It is still working out far less risky to catch rainwater comeing from gutters in a butt and treat the water from there. Bear in mind smaller qtys are stored and moved on quicker with a smaller pump meaning the tank in the attic will use it quicker. Also any evidence of rat/mouse infestion will be visable. However bird droppings on the roof.... It feels like i will be drinking recycled toilet water no matter what i do to treat it.

2. Using tanks to take large amounts of water from the yard all off a sudden is not good for foundations of anytime and builders will advise. Then there is the possibility that any water taken from the grass area will have to be replaced there for canceling out benefits.

From these 2 points i figure a water butt on each down pipe with a guttering system applied to my shed giving a third water butt means water in left in the garden. Treating smaller qtys of water in the water butts means smaller systems and there for cheaper.

This is how far i am. I am not convinced yet by the benefits of underground systems.

Carlow52

J,
am a bit puzzled by 2:

In most cases the water being collected is already going either into the main sewage pipes or french drains so I don't get the issue with the foundations....

If you have a different construct in mind then what you say will follow

Just on the underground issue, the key benefit is that the tank is kept colder than if above ground and it does not deteriorate from the UV from sun.

A half filled water butt exposed to sun is a receipt for breeding 'dana-bugs' ie all sorts of everything bugs

ponddigger

hi ,try this website it might be of some help. wwwrainXchange.com :Dponddigger:D

Joey the lips

Carlow52 wrote: »

J,
am a bit puzzled by 2:

In most cases the water being collected is already going either into the main sewage pipes or french drains so I don't get the issue with the foundations....

If you have a different construct in mind then what you say will follow

Just on the underground issue, the key benefit is that the tank is kept colder than if above ground and it does not deteriorate from the UV from sun.

A half filled water butt exposed to sun is a receipt for breeding 'dana-bugs' ie all sorts of everything bugs

Its quite simple. Drying out the soil quickly can cause the foundations to sink. Just as much as adding the water.

Equally if you take a large amount of water from the ground then you are drying it out. This will mean you have to water it more.

I think thats fairly simple... A builder will explain it better than i can

harry21

Carlow52 wrote: »

How do you make this out

As you go down, the temperature increases.

heinbloed

Harry21 wrote:

Paddy, I'd be very cautious about using it for drinking. Stagnant water can be a deadly thing, especially if it is kept in an underground tank, where temperatures are higher.

Oh ha, Harry21.....

Where did you get that from? The fridge salesman, the 'heat' pump dud (smiley)? In the past there were ice cellars in Ireland, not ice attics. It's the temperature of the attics which caused EU continental authorities to ban the usage of water tanks in the attics, some 100 years ago. To get rid of cholera and malaria, typhys and who knows....
Many use wine cellars still today, to increase the value of the wine which is stored in it's cold environs where it doesn't turn to vinegar.
And most breweries used to use cellars as well, to avoid selling sour beer and going bancrupt.
Cheese is ripened in cellars, not in atticks. These fineurs surely know what they do, try some parmesan ripened for three years in your attic(smiley).

Ground water is kosher because it is clean, Harry21.

The temperature in the ground increases roughly by 3 degrees Celsius per 100 meters. Increasing by 1 degrees per 33 meters that is. This doesn't mean the ground is warm at all.

So store your water underground where it is safe. Lay the pipese there. And don't drink from the pond. Or from the attick tank. And buy yourself a thermometer.

Carlow52

Joey the lips wrote: »

Its quite simple. Drying out the soil quickly can cause the foundations to sink. Just as much as adding the water.

Equally if you take a large amount of water from the ground then you are drying it out. This will mean you have to water it more.

I think thats fairly simple... A builder will explain it better than i can

I agree with all the above, however for most residential properties in residential estates the rain water that would go into tank never gets into the ground around the houses as its piped away as described earlier so it wont affect the foundations

Joey the lips

Carlow52 wrote: »

I agree with all the above, however for most residential properties in residential estates the rain water that would go into tank never gets into the ground around the houses as its piped away as described earlier so it wont affect the foundations

Yes thats true. But that can be dealt with from waterbuts. Most houses only have 2 down pipes so thats 2 water butts.

harry21

Heinbloed.

While I don't necessarily disagree with most of what you have to say there is always two sides to every coin. My main arguement is that I would not like to drink water that has been stored. But to argue some of your points, take the follwoing:

heinbloed wrote: »

It's the temperature of the attics which caused EU continental authorities to ban the usage of water tanks in the attics, some 100 years ago. To get rid of cholera and malaria, typhys and who knows.....

Didn't hear that before but attics have no connection to drinking water?;)

heinbloed wrote: »

Many use wine cellars still today, to increase the value of the wine which is stored in it's cold environs where it doesn't turn to vinegar. And most breweries used to use cellars as well, to avoid selling sour beer and going bancrupt.

Wine is stored in cellars because the temperature remains relatively constant and because of light issues just as much as temperature. The temperature isn't that low in a cellar either from what I know.

heinbloed wrote: »

Ground water is kosher because it is clean, Harry21.

Groundawater is clear becasue it filters through many layers of rock etc... that is the sole reason and it has nothing to do with this discussion.

heinbloed wrote: »

The temperature in the ground increases roughly by 3 degrees Celsius per 100 meters. Increasing by 1 degrees per 33 meters that is. This doesn't mean the ground is warm at all.

Heat source pumps use the fact that the ground will heat the water circulating in the pipes. infact the average soil temp in Ireland is higher than the average air temp. Just check Met Eireann.

heinbloed wrote: »

So store your water underground where it is safe. Lay the pipese there. And don't drink from the pond. Or from the attick tank. And buy yourself a thermometer.

I would disagree, I wouldn't 'store' water for drinking anywhere only the fridge! The mian thing is how long will the water be stored for.

Finally, if the water is going to be treated immediately prior to consumption, then it might not be too bad an idea. I'm not against it, I rather just drink fresh water myself. The OP asked for an opinion, and I'm just giving mine.