Leaders of Men

DamagedTrax

arthurs day competition winners "leaders of men" - ive been producing these guys since day 1 and we have big things on the horizon. here's their first video. song was recorded, produced and mixed by myself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBRHdmfdbVQ

krd

It's too fawking loud.

What I mean is - I have heard the track before - the first part of the track should be quieter - the guitars could be pulled back a little.

The point being - if the first part of the track is quite and mellowish - when the big break hits at around 3 minutes, it should come as a surprise.

You know, it should sneak up on people.

DamagedTrax

y? cause thats the norm? it was never meant to be that way. the bit that kicks in isnt meant to be huge, just another section of the song (have a listen to the walkmen as a reference).

for the quiet/BIG thing you should have a listen to a song called "who's waiting", also on the ep.

krd

Yeah, I know it's the norm. But to do something a little different - to stand out from everything else, you should think of doing something different.

And you know, if you keep following other peoples rules, you'll just end up making other peoples records, and that applies cross the board to everyone making anything.

A lot of stuff with dynamics, is things the listener wouldn't even really be aware of. But they feel it, or notice it as part of the overall thang.

Dynamics isn't just about overall volume. It can be things like dropping out whole instruments in sections. The longer the track is, the more I think you have to do. A Ramones song, doesn't have much dynamics, but they're usually only two minutes long, or less.

I've heard that EP before. I think I may have heard one of the songs on Phantom.

DamagedTrax

i think you misunderstood what i wrote. i meant its not the norm. every song i hear is quiet LOUD quiet LOUD... we decided we wanted this one just big and atmospheric and upfront from start to finish.. whether it was the more chilled out bit or the loudest bit. this song was never meant to be about wild dynamics. in fact when i asked the band for direction the best thing they could say to me was "drone"

krd

No, I wasn't disagreeing with ya.

Just making a point. I think I got what they were trying to do.

we decided we wanted this one just big and atmospheric and upfront from start to finish

It's just my opinion. I think it may have worked better - in terms of atmospherics , if say at least the guitars weren't upfront all the time. There's also that thing - with reverb - sometimes when it's up to loud, you get this empty sound (what I call it - don't have any other way to describe it)..... I think the drums and bass are getting lost in it.

every song i hear is quiet LOUD quiet LOUD

I know. There other ways of doing it - where you consider several different types of levels.

DamagedTrax

no reverb on anything but the snare and vox, everything else is room mics.

but anyway, here's the quiet/LOUD track from the EP (which has a different sound btw as 2 were recorded in base and 2 in westland). also this was put thru an otari 50/50 at 15ips. run quite hot into the tape before mixing.

http://soundcloud.com/damaged_audio/whos-waiting

being honest about it this would have been my first choice for the single.

seannash

Just a heads up man(not sure if your aware) but that track is downloadable on soundcloud.


The first song is a bit forgettable(nothing got to do with the recording) but the track on soundcloud is alot better,agree its better suited as a first single,the other one sounds like an album track.

Too late at night for me to give it a proper listen on my monitors,but sure even if i could I wouldnt really spot anything amiss with it

DamagedTrax

its fine as downloadable. it was a free EP anyway as an intro to the band.

Denalihighway

really like the track.

nice work man

krd

Warning: I've been having Sunday evening cocktails. So, my opinion is a cocktail opinion.

DamagedTrax wrote: »

http://soundcloud.com/damaged_audio/whos-waiting

being honest about it this would have been my first choice for the single.

the Kick is too loud on the intro. ~( why is it even there)

Everything is too loud to soom. It's like being fcked before the foreplay.

Hey, Damaged, dinner and a movie ain't enough. I would like a little conversation, first. I'm not the kind of girl who does this kind of thing, often.


Damaged, I think you served making things loud - and not serving the song.

There's a song in there - but you really didn't bring it out. Have you tried using the pencil tool to draw volume rides.....so things don't appear all at the fcuking once.



The kick is WAY too loud - and it's not even a good kick. Lot the same for the bass. Big fluffy kick, with a snare buzz

You did not serve the song.

And you burned stuff too.

You're using compression like it's magic sauce....when it's just ketchup.



Anyway that just my opinion.

Where it gets good is about 5 minutes, where you can hear the voice and the song coming through. But even there the drums are too loud and sound like they're being plugin-erized.

That bit would sound so much cooler if the drums were just a little back.

Damaged, stop making porn..........And start making love.

DamagedTrax

dude, i dont know what you're listening on but i think we are hearing totally different songs

there is very little compression going on. most of it is just desk or a hint of outboard on the way in. infact the heaviest compression most likely occured at mastering and even then i dont find it too heavy on the ears. the decision to saturate a lot of elements hot came because the band wanted a dirty raw sound. if i could go back and make changes i really dont think i'd look at all your points seriously because i know this band and they very much know the sound that they want, the proof is in the debut EP generating a lot of praise for both its songwriting and production/style.

but thats not a brush off either. i did read your post carefully, i just dont agree with it so its all good

krd

Warning: I've been having Sunday evening cocktails. So, my opinion is a cocktail opinion.


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And more cocktails have been consumed since the the last comment
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DamagedTrax, you are a liar!!!!

Who gives a flying F what the band wanted - that's not your job - these people don't know what they want..............And I bet you didn't even listen to them........just pretended to listen to them..... You just went doing what you were going to do anyway.

And don't blame the out board or whatever.


Don't blame anyone,,, but yourself..........because I'm not blaming anyone else...and either is anyone else.........either is anyone else blaming anyone else.

The Intro is too loud - and that F'ing fluffy kick - it's meant to drift in - you have it going all at the same level.

And when the vocals and bass appear - it sounds "blended".....it's not meant to sound blended. And the bass is too way to high....this is the point the vocal opens the song. It's meant to come in sharp and surprising - jump out of the atmospheric opening. And you could have done that - muted atmospherics with a crisp vocal and rhythm and bass coming in....but you didn't - you thought you'd blend them.


Then you have this thing......the silly repetitive snare run..REALLY UP IN THE MIX...sorry what was that about?.....I would like to hear your explanation..(actually, I'm being sarcastic - I wouldn't even listen to your explanation)


That snare up to the break at 3,,,,,is truly revolting......And why couldn't you drop everything so when the break kicked in, SO it felt like something kicking in.

Would that hurt so much?

Would it hurt too much?

Listen back to it -- the stupid snare roll is breaking the song. Even the over-loud bass pluck isn't ruining it, as much as the snare.

The coolest bit is the last 45 seconds - but what use is that....it's meant to be cool the whole way through. Even thought the cool bits sound loud and burnt.

Why?


I bet you have stems...........and I bet you could do a better version.

But Damaged, don't lie to me.....because, I know when your lying

DamagedTrax

dude, you need to chill, you've no reason to be taking the tone you're taking with me. i'm being polite with you. just because i dont agree with you does not pertain to me being a liar.

im blaming nothing on nothing, im making no excuses for that mix. i quite enjoy listening to it and i'm happy with how it sounds, as where the band.

if you dont like it then thats not a problem but i think the psych evaluation is taking it a little far.

krd

DamagedTrax.........I only called you a liar, to be melodramatic. I do not believe you to be a dishonest person - I just said it.


I'm going to bed.


But.....I think this whole thing of you, striking back at me, for making melodramatic accusations, could be your way of deflecting your feelings of inadequacy back onto me.

And I'm going to bed .....I've drank too much...and you've no idea how long it took me to type the word "inadequacy"......that was exhausting....Goodnight

Denalihighway

note to self...drinking, posting...etc...