RWC SF: Wales V France, Sat 9am Pre/During/Post Thread

Tinie

Brilliant welsh defence!

check_six

Warburton picked ROG up in a similar type tackle last week, but ROG's landing on the ground was much safer than that one. Seeing the tackle live it looked horrible and Warburton had to go.

ANXIOUS

The tackler has to ground the player which he didn't.

I am pie

Monsieur Rolland is a head banger....potentially ruined the semi final. A yellow all day and not more. I wonder if that was Richie McCaw would he send him off ?

If you take a guy beyond horizontal and let him drop it's a yellow. He was clearly not driven into the ground.

Gaahh! Rolland : (

randomer

Does anyone have a copy of the specific rule? I read on Wikipedia that "The IRB has also said that in Rugby Union a spear tackle should be a straight red card."

If someone can find the official rule it can stop the debate.

Trotter

If the French lad was on a spine board now being treated, and a yellow had been given, Rolland and refs in general would be slated later on for being weak and not protecting players.

There was no malice there and in reality it's inaction by the IRB/Refs in the past that's got him sent off today. The refs are zero tolerance now on that (as we all called for back in 'the day') and Warburton is suffering for the sins of others really. Rolland had no other choice given the attention being given to tackles of that nature at ref meetings etc.

walshb

Didn't seem intentional, but the rules are clear on this type of tackle. Ref was left with little choice at that moment in time. Maybe when he looks back at it he would think a sin bin was the call.

I am pie

efb wrote: »

Are people saying he shouldn't have given a red because it will ruin the game...

Warburton knew what he was doing- imho. (and Rolland's too)

The rules are clear...red for driving into the ground which he clearly didn't do. Yellow for letting go above horizontal, which he clearly did.

thomond2006

ffs Parra no chips kicks inside your own half! :mad:

Drumpot

SuprSi wrote: »

D_Red_Army wrote: »

What did he do???? No stream or TV here!!!

He picked up one of the French players and dumped him into the ground. Dangerous tackle, and deserving of a yellow, but not a red IMO.

He dropped him , didn't dump him. It's ruined the game whether it was cynical or not.

It's not clear whether or not it was intentional, as such I think a yellow would of been suffice. Feel for the welsh as they looked so good until that incident.

Bigcheeze

randomer wrote: »

If someone can find the official rule it can stop the debate.

Ya think?

SuprSi

Looks like this is where they're missing Priestland. 1 from 3 for Hook and being a man down, they need every point they can get.

gally74

Think rolland was right , remember b o d, no need to lift and turn

Donald_ducked

France have been so poor. If Warburton was still on the pitch I'd have put my house on Wales to win

GerM

Absolute red card. Picked the player up, drove him downwards and then released before he struck the ground. Clerc landed on the base of his neck and it could have been much, much worse. I would commend Rolland for making the call rather than bottling it like so many would. There was no protest from Warburton. He knew he had been very wrong. For the record, there is no distinction in the laws between dropping a player and driving a player into the ground. Both are equally dangerous and are punishable as such. Rightly so.

No chance of Wales doing anything if Hook is missing like that... France shooting themselves in the foot a bit. Wales still trying - Williams 5 years ago might have had that....

danthefan

Everyone saying it's not a red because he didn't drive him into the ground: you are all wrong. The Laws of the game do not distinguish between lifting and driving into the ground and lifting and dropping into the ground.

The amended Law 10.4(j) will now read: Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player’s feet are still off the ground such that the player’s head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground is dangerous play.

GerM

randomer wrote: »

Does anyone have a copy of the specific rule? I read on Wikipedia that "The IRB has also said that in Rugby Union a spear tackle should be a straight red card."

If someone can find the official rule it can stop the debate.

10.4j

Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player's feet are still off the ground such that the player's head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground is dangerous play.

handsomecake

check_six wrote: »

Warburton picked ROG up in a similar type tackle last week, but ROG's landing on the ground was much safer than that one. Seeing the tackle live it looked horrible and Warburton had to go.

only because charteris caught his upper half.

greendom

France aren't in this game mentally. None of the focus they had against England

Benny Cake

Score?

danthefan

danthefan wrote: »

Everyone saying it's not a red because he didn't drive him into the ground: you are all wrong. The Laws of the game do not distinguish between lifting and driving into the ground and lifting and dropping into the ground.

always thought there was a distinction between the two. Clearly not.

My apologies Rolland, as always you are far more right than me!

walshb

This is a lot of mumbo jumbo. What does a player need to do to get a red? Kill the man?:rolleyes:

It did not look intentional, but still, it was that type of tackle, very dangerous.

GerM

I am pie wrote: »

The rules are clear...red for driving into the ground which he clearly didn't do. Yellow for letting go above horizontal, which he clearly did.

Read the laws then. There's no set rulings for red/yellow. That's open to referees interpretation. The laws do equate dropping and driving a player. I can't believe people are trying to defend dropping a player on the base of his neck. Unbelievably dangerous.

greendom

D_Red_Army wrote: »

Score?

3 - 3 but France have a pen in front of the posts

SuprSi

6 - 3 France, Parra penalty

duckysauce

6-3 les frogs

Hammer Archer

Google obviously just got a huge spike in people searching "definition of a spear tackle" :pac:
Looks like there was justification for the red having read the rule.

GerM

chupacabra wrote: »

Not a chance that was a red. For a red to be given in that situation there has to be intent. Watch the replay, he didnt pick him up and drive him into the ground he turned him and let go. No intent, no red.

Where do people get these ideas?

handsomecake

Trotter wrote: »

If the French lad was on a spine board now being treated, and a yellow had been given, Rolland and refs in general would be slated later on for being weak and not protecting players.

There was no malice there and in reality it's inaction by the IRB/Refs in the past that's got him sent off today. The refs are zero tolerance now on that (as we all called for back in 'the day') and Warburton is suffering for the sins of others really. Rolland had no other choice given the attention being given to tackles of that nature at ref meetings etc.

look at spear tackles on youtube from currie cup. they dish out reds there a lot

BERBA

Donald_ducked wrote: »

France have been so poor. If Warburton was still on the pitch I'd have put my house on Wales to win

if if if if

efb

I am pie wrote: »

The rules are clear...red for driving into the ground which he clearly didn't do. Yellow for letting go above horizontal, which he clearly did.

which rule would that be:

The amended Law 10.4(j) will now read: Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player’s feet are still off the ground such that the player’s head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground is dangerous play.

Dropping= Dangerous=Red
Rollard=Correct
efb=vindicated.

Ponster

D_Red_Army wrote: »

Score?

Loads of streams available if you have no tv

Drumpot

I'd say Australia and new Zealand are loving this. Can't see this french team doing much in final.

I'd be sick watching this as an Irish player!

handsomecake

wales are blessed its raining.dry track france could move it from side to side much quicker with no flanker

wonderboysam

So at 9 o'clock I was shouting for france.. not anymore ALLEZ RED!

handsomecake

Drumpot wrote: »

I'd say Australia and new Zealand are loving this. Can't see this french team doing much in final.

I'd be sick watching this as an Irish player!

and if wales get to final warburton wont be there

chimchimney

GerM wrote: »

Where do people get these ideas?

According to the the below the intentions of the tackling player are not relevant.

Referees and Citing Commissioners should not make their decisions based on what they consider was the intention of the offending player. Their decision should be based on an objective assessment (as per Law 10.4(e)) of the overall circumstances of the tackle.

http://www.irblaws.com/EN/guidelines/

the page is dealing with a different sort of illegal tackle (high tackle) but I presume the same principle about intentions applies

Fishooks12

France really annoy me watching them, the likes of Medard seem to have a real attitude problem

chupacabra

GerM wrote: »

Where do people get these ideas?

I stand corrected. My apologies.

mossyc123

France are very lacklustre.

Wales need to punish them soon

And here's "Sweet Caroline"... would love to hear the logic behind playing pop music at a RWC Semi-Final... Do all New Zealanders have ADD?!

Deedsie

I am pie wrote: »

The rules are clear...red for driving into the ground which he clearly didn't do. Yellow for letting go above horizontal, which he clearly did.

Ok, not disagreeing with you! Do you have a copy of the rules? Would be good to see the actual wording! To me, a spear tackle is a straight red card!


That tackle would not qualify as a spear tackle in my opinion as the man wasn't driven into the ground.

BERBA

Thank fcuk Hook is playing:D

theoneeyedman

Garland make the tough call pull hook now he's kicking it away

Drumpot

handsomecake wrote: »

Drumpot wrote: »

I'd say Australia and new Zealand are loving this. Can't see this french team doing much in final.

I'd be sick watching this as an Irish player!

and if wales get to final warburton wont be there

True. Even without him Wales look a better team!

PhiliousPhogg

Wales have more possession, they have approached the France 22 at least 3 times now and have turned over. France might be mediocre but they're challenging at the breakdown and getting results, plus their set piece is proving stronger. Wales were going nowhere there with that attempted drop goal.

BERBA

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Garland make the tough call pull hook now he's kicking it away

Judy Garland is it?:D

thomond2006

Decent game. Wales have missed 9 points.

Their recycling of possession is noticeably slower with Warburton off.

France haven't combusted yet.

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

Why couldn't he get sent off against Ireland?

Fishooks12

Hard to have much sympathy for Warburton, it was an incredibly stupid tackle even if it didn't warrant a red