Amateur band audited.

Red Sauce

What do you mean I'm 'stirring'?

And no, we're not being scammed. The letters had our PPS numbers on them.

I'm not trying to freak people out or anything but this is a real worry for small original bands. Yes it's incredible, but it's true.

I'd also like to clarify that I never mentioned the CIA...

Shattered Dreamer

Red Sauce wrote: »

What do you mean I'm 'stirring'?

And no, we're not being scammed. The letters had our PPS numbers on them.

I'm not trying to freak people out or anything but this is a real worry for small original bands. Yes it's incredible, but it's true.

Just because something has your PPS number on it doesn't make it 100% legit, a decent scam artist could find that out no bother at all. Seriously legal advice before you give anyone any more information or money.

Deco1983

Shattered Dreamer wrote: »

Just because something has your PPS number on it doesn't make it 100% legit, a decent scam artist could find that out no bother at all. Seriously legal advice before you give anyone any more information or money.

Good advice

Although your issue is even more complicated now that the CIA are apparently involved. I would call your solicitor immediately...and don't use your own phone its probably tapped at this stage. Use a public phonebox.

best of luck

Red Sauce

I can appreciate where you're coming from with the scam thing but I can assure you the letters are from the revenue.

What I really want to know is why us and why now? We don't have an online presence any bigger than most other bands at our level and we don't gig particularly often anyway.

Again, I reckon our name popped up on a list of acts from a venue and it's not beyond belief that the revenue typed our name into google.

Also, like I said before another band from my home town got letters out too. We're all in the same revenue district so I wonder if just our local revenue office is doing a crackdown? One of the lads in my band hasn't received a letter let but he's from the west and is under a different revenue office's jurisdiction. Just a theory.

Duke Leonal Felmet

Shattered Dreamer wrote: »

Deco1983 wrote: »

Dead On - I've experience of working in Revenue and it simply does not happen. The OP is stirring and bayles and his Dad(RIP) are giving out entertaining, yet essentially made up information.

I know something this dickish isn't beyond the Revenue but it sounds beyond suspicious. I've been in bands with studio session musicians, I know a bassist in particular who has worked fairly regularly at it for 10 years, does'nt hide this fact, played gigs advertised in national news papers, played most of the big venues in Dublin & is pretty well know within the industry here in Ireland & he's never been contacted by Revenue once.

Now if somebody in his situation isn't getting chased up, & some people in this thread claim Revenue are like the CIA, then the CIA aren't as good as they used to be clearly. Getting an accountant in this situation was a great idea but I would go to a solicitor too just be safe because this really sounds like a bull**** hoax.

Me and my friends have smoked for years, and no one has died!

See how useless anecdotal evidence is?

Shattered Dreamer

One of your band mate's hasn't gotten a letter because this is probably a scam lol If the Revenue were going after the entire band he would've gotten a letter regardless of his district & besides all tax audits come straight from the tax office in Dublin if they suspect fraud.

Given that your band is pretty under the radar the only way I could see the Revenue finding you guys is somebody reported you for fraud otherwise this is 100% a scam & go see a solicitor or even citizens advice.

Deco1983

Red Sauce wrote: »

Again, I reckon our name popped up on a list of acts from a venue and it's not beyond belief that the revenue typed our name into google.

Come on man - You're just wasting peoples time here now Red Sauce.

Red Sauce

FFS quit trolling Deco1983.

Listen, it's up to you whether you want to believe me or not. I'll let everyone know how it works out anyway as there is a valuable lesson to be learned here for anyone in the music industry.

I'm actually worried s*it like this will have a detrimental effect on the local music scene, with venues/acts being afraid to promote anything for fear of the paperwork and hassle of being chased up and harassed. I know it's made my band rethink whether it's all worth the effort. We're not talking Delorentos, The Coronas or even Ham Sandwich here, just lads having a bit of fun.

Deco1983

Not Trolling buddy - have experience of working with a number Revenue units and they do not go after bands in your situation. Simple as that. As another poster has said you are either being scammed by someone or out of badness someone has alerted Revenue to you so they are obliged to follow up.

And to be honest your suggestion that they have some how 'googled' you is laughable a tad naive on your part to say they least.

Why do you wonder that no other bands have been on to your thread saying - man this has happened to us too man..its not fair man

If you are genuinely concerned I would suggest that you seek some professional advice and then come back once you have a resolution and post constructively on this forum.

otherwise stop wasting peoples time

TheMutations

Perhaps the Revenue are not genuinely interested in the OP's tax affairs but are trying to get more info on an audited venue, by scaring the OP into unintentionally spilling the beans?

bayles

Deco1983 wrote: »

Dead On - I've experience of working in Revenue and it simply does not happen. The OP is stirring and bayles and his Dad(RIP) are giving out entertaining, yet essentially made up information.

Firstly i take that as a personal insult , im not going to come on here putting out made up information and scaremongering amongst fellow musicians . I just happen to have a bit of an insight as to how revenue operate and i was replying to the OP . If you choose to come out with statements like that then back it up with some facts .

I believe red sauce and i know musicians that this has happend too also , i dont claim to be an expert in this field and i have said all along to get proper advice . You claim to have worked in revenue therefore you should be able to come on here with a cogent argument as to why you reckon this is a hoax .

Shattered Dreamer

Red Sauce, I'm well aware of the fact that you're trying to give people here a heads up on what might potentially happen. But, what you don't seem to get is the fact that you are receiving advice on what to do in the invent you are being SCAMMED!

For your own sake seek legal advice because your band & that other band in your local area are the only low level bands I have ever heard of this happening too an as Deco1983 has pointed out you are being incredibly naive about the whole thing. Nobody from Revenue is googling your band or skulking in the shadows of whatever venues you are playing at complying a file on your band so they can send you for a tax audit.

If your band potentially owed the Revenue even as little as €500, which from your description of your band's activity I doubt you've ever even made €500 on all your gigs combined (no offence), I could see the Revenue chasing you then. But from everything you have outlined so far I'd be 99.9997% sure you are being scammed & the fact that one member of your band hasn't received a letter about this pretty much confirms this.

Red Sauce

TheMutations wrote: »

Perhaps the Revenue are not genuinely interested in the OP's tax affairs but are trying to get more info on an audited venue, by scaring the OP into unintentionally spilling the beans?

Could be. The letter is quite open. It doesn't mention any venues, dates, or amounts of money. It just asks us to declare any money we've made. It's as if they've left us to come clean about anything we may have earned as if they don't know anything really, just that we're a gigging band, and there's a chance that we may have earned some money. It'd make sense too seeing as another band in town got the letters too, and there is a really well known venue nearby which local bands would have played in at one stage or another. Could be they were audited?

Shattered Dreamer

Red Sauce wrote: »

Could be. The letter is quite open. It doesn't mention any venues, dates, or amounts of money. It just asks us to declare any money we've made. It's as if they've left us to come clean about anything we may have earned as if they don't know anything really, just that we're a gigging band, and there's a chance that we may have earned some money. It'd make sense too seeing as another band in town got the letters too, and there is a really well known venue nearby which local bands would have played in at one stage or another. Could be they were audited?

If this is what the letter said then you are most definitely 100% being scammed. When people get tax audit notification in the post, the Revenue will generally give you an outline figure of what they think you owe them as a reason for wanting to audit you. The Revenue doesn't just send random letters going "hey, ah we heard you're in a band, send us all your info so we can see do you owe us money". WAKE UP

Grolschevik

Shattered Dreamer wrote: »

If this is what the letter said then you are most definitely 100% being scammed. When people get tax audit notification in the post, the Revenue will generally give you an outline figure of what they think you owe them as a reason for wanting to audit you. The Revenue doesn't just send random letters going "hey, ah we heard you're in a band, send us all your info so we can see do you owe us money". WAKE UP

How would this scam work? Revenue letters are quite obviously Revenue letters, so someone would have a bit of design work to do in faking them up, plus getting the PPS numbers of the various band members.

What's in it for the scammer? No-one just puts a rake of 20s in an envelope and sends it to a PO Box. They write cheques to the Revenue, or get a bank draft made out to the Revenue, and they post it to the Revenue.

Red Sauce

Shattered Dreamer wrote: »

If this is what the letter said then you are most definitely 100% being scammed. When people get tax audit notification in the post, the Revenue will generally give you an outline figure of what they think you owe them as a reason for wanting to audit you. The Revenue doesn't just send random letters going "hey, ah we heard you're in a band, send us all your info so we can see do you owe us money". WAKE UP

Jesus mate relax... I suppose you've worked for the revenue too:rolleyes:


By the way, we're not ruling out the possibility that someone ratted us out for whatever reason (indeed it was one of the first things the professional accountant we got in contact with said may have happened), but then that doesn't make sense as another local band got done the same day as us.

Deco1983

Bayles I've said my piece at this stage to be honest. Trying to get through to dum dum musicians ain't my bag

At the end of the day if your post was genuine or if it is a piss take it dont matter - either way the advice you give was misleading and irresponsible

I'm out

bayles

Shattered Dreamer wrote: »

If this is what the letter said then you are most definitely 100% being scammed. When people get tax audit notification in the post, the Revenue will generally give you an outline figure of what they think you owe them as a reason for wanting to audit you. The Revenue doesn't just send random letters going "hey, ah we heard you're in a band, send us all your info so we can see do you owe us money". WAKE UP

This is correct red sauce , there has to be a bottom line figure saying YOU OWE US €xxxxxxx because ..............

Red Sauce

Grolschevik wrote: »

How would this scam work? Revenue letters are quite obviously Revenue letters, so someone would have a bit of design work to do in faking them up, plus getting the PPS numbers of the various band members.

What's in it for the scammer? No-one just puts a rake of 20s in an envelope and sends it to a PO Box. They write cheques to the Revenue, or get a bank draft made out to the Revenue, and they post it to the Revenue.

Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Shattered Dreamer

Grolschevik wrote: »

How would this scam work? Revenue letters are quite obviously Revenue letters, so someone would have a bit of design work to do in faking them up, plus getting the PPS numbers of the various band members.

What's in it for the scammer? No-one just puts a rake of 20s in an envelope and sends it to a PO Box. They write cheques to the Revenue, or get a bank draft made out to the Revenue, and they post it to the Revenue.

This kind of fraud isn't totally unheard of. All you would need is a decent colour printer/scanner & a copy of a Revenue letter & cheque. Change the a/c no the cheque is meant to be send too on the Revenue cheque & boom.

Here's a link to Imro's website the section on musicians & tax, tax audits etc http://www.imro.ie/content/income-tax-prsi-health-levies-vat-fact-sheet this should sort the problem

bayles

Deco1983 wrote: »

Bayles I've said my piece at this stage to be honest. Trying to get through to dum dum musicians ain't my bag

At the end of the day if your post was genuine or if it is a piss take it dont matter - either way the advice you give was misleading and irresponsible

I'm out

Then back it up with some evidence

Deco1983

Red Sauce wrote: »

Jesus mate relax... I suppose you've worked for the revenue too:rolleyes:


By the way, we're not ruling out the possibility that someone ratted us out for whatever reason (indeed it was one of the first things the professional accountant we got in contact with said may have happened), but then that doesn't make sense as another local band got done the same day as us.

Red Sauce - I've just downloaded the internet, googled your band and the internet said that this is in fact a scam and that you should not be worried

Shattered Dreamer

bayles wrote: »

This is correct red sauce , there has to be a bottom line figure saying YOU OWE US €xxxxxxx because ..............

Finally somebody with a bit of sense! Oh & before everyone asks how do I know about this stuff, I have a degree in Law & decided since I'm also a musician knowing all the legal bs surrounding be a musician is kind of important lol

Grolschevik

Shattered Dreamer wrote: »

This kind of fraud isn't totally unheard of. All you would need is a decent colour printer/scanner & a copy of a Revenue letter & cheque. Change the a/c no the cheque is meant to be send too on the Revenue cheque & boom.

In that case, wouldn't they just have demanded x amount of money, rather than apparently fishing for further info?

Shattered Dreamer

Grolschevik wrote: »

In that case, wouldn't they just have demanded x amount of money, rather than apparently fishing for further info?

Not necessarily troll

Deco1983

bayles wrote: »

Then back it up with some evidence

Bayles - From my experience with Revenue I'm not aware of any such "Crews"(your own words) of people who target such bands.

My advice to the op is to get some professional direction if he/she is worried.

You're being irresponsible with the post you are making as well as being disrespectful to both your fellow musicians and the Irish Revenue.

Shame on you

Grolschevik

Shattered Dreamer wrote: »

Not necessarily troll

Troll what?

Anyway, I decided to ask the lads over in Taxation, see what they think...

bayles

Deco1983 wrote: »

Bayles - From my experience with Revenue I'm not aware of any such "Crews"(your own words) of people who target such bands.

My advice to the op is to get some professional direction if he/she is worried.

You're being irresponsible with the post you are making as well as being disrespectful to both your fellow musicians and the Irish Revenue.

Shame on you

What i have said is not irresponsible or disrespectful and i stand over it , just because you choose not to believe it for your own reasons , then thats your own business . This is how they work and thats it . If musicians are earning and not paying tax then revenue need to try and get it somehow and this is how they do it.

Red sauce this may be stating the obvious but if its an official letter im sure there would be some sort of refrence number , have you thought about just ringing revenue and asking them why you got it .

Shattered Dreamer

Yeah Red Sauce have you actually rang the Revenue?

thewintermute

I hate to interfere with the trolling and flaming, which is only mildly entertaining, but from what I've read there is nothing to say that the letter Red Sauce received has anything to do with him being in the band.I'd imagine it's a genuine letter from revenue, but possibly more to do with him being on unemployment benefit. If your friends that have also received letters have jobs, I may be wrong, but it's a thought, no?Bands do get audited, if you're playing and advertised it happens. Not often, but it does happen.