Occupy Galway Group (mod note added)

ZRelation

Wompa1 wrote: »

Very good, I didn't know that. I must look some Dutch bands up, could you suggest any?

Vengaboys.....of course.

ben.schlomo

Wompa1 wrote: »

Dutch music?....

By music id guess he means the stuff young lads play too loud in souped up cars, dance they call it.

westcoast1

dont see the protests doing any good at all really but if it carries on year round worldwide for years to come who knows?

Irishgoatman

padraig91 wrote: »

TEXT?! but but that would mean you have a phone? which would mean you supported some company like nokia and considering i dont know any Irish phone brands you must have been taking money out of the hands of Irish people? surely not? and you must also be with vodafone, o2, 3 or metor only one of which is an Irish company

Why shouldn't I have a 'phone?.
I've said before that I am not one of the protesters. If you read all of the posts you would have seen that.
My, aren't some people picky and selective in their comments.

Darko,
In every protest you'll get some people who have rather weird ideas. Best not to tar everyone with the same brush.

Irishgoatman

westcoast1 wrote: »

dont see the protests doing any good at all really but if it carries on year round worldwide for years to come who knows?

As has been said before, if it just gets people thinking about the mess we're in and not burying their heads in the sand that's a good thing.

Irishgoatman

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Darko,
In every protest you'll get some people who have rather weird ideas. Best not to tar everyone with the same brush.

I never said everyone involved was like the individual I spoke to but that was it any wonder people have such negative opinions of the movement in Galway if those involved spout such idiotic rubbish. The problem with protests such as this is that when people are allowed to speak their mind more often than not there are a handful of moronic individuals whose ridicolous beliefs colour the entire group. The individual I spoke of may not be representative of the movement as a whole but his ideals when spoken aloud to people passing will be taken as the over all opinion of all those involved.

From what I've encountered of occupy Galway it seems to be a badly run arm of the movement with many conflicting opinions bring spouted by those involved. The people involved need to agree upon what exactly it is they are protesting and begin educating themselves in that area.

ben.schlomo

Deleted User wrote: »

I never said everyone involved was like the individual I spoke to but that was it any wonder people have such negative opinions of the movement in Galway if those involved spout such idiotic rubbish. The problem with protests such as this is that when people are allowed to speak their mind more often than not there are a handful of moronic individuals whose ridicolous beliefs colour the entire group. The individual I spoke of may not be representative of the movement as a whole but his ideals when spoken aloud to people passing will be taken as the over all opinion of all those involved.

From what I've encountered of occupy Galway it seems to be a badly run arm of the movement with many conflicting opinions bring spouted by those involved. The people involved need to agree upon what exactly it is they are protesting and begin educating themselves in that area.

Exactly, its been asked here numerous times now what their objectives are yet anyone associated never gives clear,concise or coherent answers.

lobes

5pm Thursday December 15th at Eyre Square.
'Whipping Boy' - a great fracking band!
http://www.myspace.com/dublinwhippingboy

Irishgoatman

Deleted User wrote: »

I never said everyone involved was like the individual I spoke to but that was it any wonder people have such negative opinions of the movement in Galway if those involved spout such idiotic rubbish. The problem with protests such as this is that when people are allowed to speak their mind more often than not there are a handful of moronic individuals whose ridicolous beliefs colour the entire group. The individual I spoke of may not be representative of the movement as a whole but his ideals when spoken aloud to people passing will be taken as the over all opinion of all those involved.

From what I've encountered of occupy Galway it seems to be a badly run arm of the movement with many conflicting opinions bring spouted by those involved. The people involved need to agree upon what exactly it is they are protesting and begin educating themselves in that area.

Sorry Darko, I should have worded it better but was in a rush.

Had it been me I think I would have found another person to speak to.
You were unlucky enough to get the nominated idiot of the day perhaps.:D. Not a good advert for the movement I agree.

padraig91

Irishgoatman wrote: »

padraig91 wrote: »

TEXT?! but but that would mean you have a phone? which would mean you supported some company like nokia and considering i dont know any Irish phone brands you must have been taking money out of the hands of Irish people? surely not? and you must also be with vodafone, o2, 3 or metor only one of which is an Irish company

Why shouldn't I have a 'phone?.
I've said before that I am not one of the protesters. If you read all of the posts you would have seen that.
My, aren't some people picky and selective in their comments.

I'm not being picky and selective I just have other things to be doing rather then reading through 60 something pages of this

Eman Resu

Will there be anyone occupying the tents over Christmas in particular on Christmas day? Be the perfect opportunity for the authorities to clear out the entire place.

galwayrush

Will the campers have to pay the 100 euro residental tax next year?

ben.schlomo

Very good piece on Vincent Browne lastnight, they had a chap from the 'Occupy' Dame St camp in, VB asked him their aims, Occupy fella said they were : 1: New form of representative democracy in Ireland, 2: End IMF/ECB involvement in Ireland, 3 and 4 i've completely forgotten now but the point of the story is VB had his first two points knocked down within 10 seconds of him saying them, it was both a complete showing up of the movement and also hard to watch as your man just had no comeback and kept going on about FG saying they would 'burn' bond holders to which VB told him they never said that it was simply the media spinning stories.

antoobrien

ben.schlomo wrote: »

kept going on about FG saying they would 'burn' bond holders to which VB told him they never said that it was simply the media spinning stories.

VB would be wrong there, as FG claimed they wouldn't put another penny (the exact wording I think was "another red cent") into Anglo. So while they didn't call it that, the effect of it would be to burn bondholders.

Did VB ask the occupier anything about the consequences of burning bondholders and getting the IMF out, or will I just have to go onto 3player when I get home from propping up the economy with fresh taxes?

ben.schlomo

antoobrien wrote: »

VB would be wrong there, as FG claimed they wouldn't put another penny (the exact wording I think was "another red cent") into Anglo. So while they didn't call it that, the effect of it would be to burn bondholders.

Did VB ask the occupier anything about the consequences of burning bondholders and getting the IMF out, or will I just have to go onto 3player when I get home from propping up the economy with fresh taxes?

Yeah he asked what the alternative to having IMF money was and i dont recall a ground breaking theory from your man. Its worth a watch though, from about 1130 to 12 was the part i saw.

c_man

There was a guy ranting and raving from the Occupy tent at passer-bys yesterday evening. "NEXT YEAR EVERYONE WILL BE CONSCRIPTED INTO THE EU ARMY. YES SIR, MARK MY WORDS"

Well that's unemployment sorted so.

biko

m2c,
sure the occupiers don't have all the answers but they don't need to have them.
You don't need to have an alternative to know that the current situation isn't good.

At least they are "officially" venting what I keep hearing down the pub from people that hate the current system but don't have an alternative either.
I read the same on boards too. People complaining about the current system without offering an alternative.

You people complaining about the occupiers - are you ok with the current economic system and government?

Irishgoatman

padraig91 wrote: »

I'm not being picky and selective I just have other things to be doing rather then reading through 60 something pages of this

I would humbly suggest that if you are not following this thread, and therefore don't have your facts right, you would be better off not opening your mouth.

biko

biko wrote: »

You people complaining about the occupiers - are you ok with the current economic system and government?

Broadly - yes.

It could do with some tinkering but this should be done through current structures and not through a demonstration that claims to represent the 99%

Radical candidates and parties stood in the last election and even with Proportional Representation - Single transferable vote the vast majority of the population didn't vote for them.

The government is only able to pay the bills thanks to an EU IMF bailout - no amount of complaining about banks, EU armies or whatever is going to change that.

Irishgoatman

biko wrote: »

m2c,
sure the occupiers don't have all the answers but they don't need to have them.
You don't need to have an alternative to know that the current situation isn't good.

At least they are "officially" venting what I keep hearing down the pub from people that hate the current system but don't have an alternative either.
I read the same on boards too. People complaining about the current system without offering an alternative.

You people complaining about the occupiers - are you ok with the current economic system and government?

Exactly what I've been saying biko, but people don't want to hear it do they.

Irishgoatman

Deleted User wrote: »

Broadly - yes.

It could do with some tinkering but this should be done through current structures and not through a demonstration that claims to represent the 99%

Radical candidates and parties stood in the last election and even with Proportional Representation - Single transferable vote the vast majority of the population didn't vote for them.

The government is only able to pay the bills thanks to an EU IMF bailout - no amount of complaining about banks, EU armies or whatever is going to change that.

Do they claim to represent or just be part of the 99% ?.

antoobrien

biko wrote: »

You people complaining about the occupiers - are you ok with the current economic system and government?

By and large yes. Let me state for the record, I earn €36,500 gross and am in my early 30s, so I'm supposed to be one of the severely disenfranchised people in this country - if you listen to the occupiers.

Are there problems, sure there are. The nature of democracy is basically mob rule, and not everyone will agree with everyone else. I could launch into game theory for beginners in order to explain the concepts of the theory of interactions for the common good vs for personal gain, but it would take too long and put a lot of people to sleep.

Maybe I should go over to eyre square and start reading my thesis to the occupiers, after they doze off it'll be easy enough to move them.

Are there problems with the economic system - yes, but nothing that can't be fixed with the application of rules - a lesson that has been forgotten since the great depression.

The basic problem with the current situation (not the system) is that there are some very difficult decisions that have to be made, but nobody wants to be the one on the receiving end of one of those decisions (natural enough). Then you have enda kenny going on saying that it's not the peoples fault. Horsesh*t, who the hell was buying all that property and driving the market higher, oh yeah the people he just absolved from any blame, but then he wouldn't have been listened to if he told the truth either.

I have no problem paying extra taxes if it goes on something worthwhile - new roads, busses trains, schools etc. I have a major problem if it goes to pay a vastly overpaid public service (the bill is over 12 billion for 300-400 thousand people each year) and a way too high social welfare bill without the kind of reforms to make sure the money goes where it needs to be.

I was listening to the radio this morning, when a TY teacher stated that he was teaching the social history of the country to pupils through song to explain why so many of them would have to emigrate. That kind of attitude makes me sick, they're having to emigrate because of the sheer laziness of large sections of society over the past 15 years. PS wanted extra pay but not reform - and got it though partially implementing benchmarking (there was supposed to be a productivity part of it, but it was never applied). SW got extra money for doing.....nothing - at the height of things in 2007 there were 135,00 long term unemployed in the country when we were granting work permits to upwards of 80,000 foreign workers.

The outcry about the IMF and wanting to burn bondholders is baffling to be, especially because there is no socially acceptable alternative.

The reporting of the current tranche of the bailout is a bit more responsible that it has been in the past. It actually stated on the radio this morning that it's the latest part of a €23 billion package, which reflects the fact that the vast majority of the total €85 billion package is going to cover government overruns that have absolutely nothing to to with the current baking crisis.

The alternative to this funding is paying even higher rates on the international bond markets - which will require either even deeper cuts & bigger tax rises.

I don't think people have really considered what will happen if we burn bondholders.

1) The ECB will immediately withdraw support for the Irish banks, which will immediately put them out of business. How will thiss affect the average persn, well there'll be no cash in the ATMS, now way to withdraw money or transfer it out of accounts. We'll have to use whatever we have in our pockets or in accounts in foreign owned banks (assuming that any of the banks that operate here survive the debt shock that it will cause across europe - see lehmans for what happened the last time a couple of hundred billion in debt was defaulted on) or credit unions/post office savings and the like.

Longer term, we'll have to move our baking affairs to foreign owned banks (lets not forget that they came in and undercut the Irish banks so much they got reckless, while being supported by banks with reserves that are greater than the Irish economy), while hoping the deposit guarantee scheme will be able to cover up to €100,000 for every Irish bank account so that we can spend our wages/sw cheques.

2) Nobody will lend us money - we've just told them we're not going to pay back other debts, so there's no way in hell and sensible investor will give us money. There's currently a €9.7 billion deficit on current spending - thats before anything that goes on any national and banking debt. Even if we renege on every last cent thats owed by us (which means we'll never get back any of the bonds we have bought) we've still got to balance the books to the tune of 10 billion, probably more because of the hit taxes will take - which will have to be done immediately. That will mean that across the board PS & SW pay as well as services will be cut drastically, and we won't be able to pay for little things like road works or bus maintenance.

antoobrien

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Do they claim to represent or just be part of the 99% ?.

Who are you talking about - the radicals or the government.

Seeing as 55% of the electorate voted for the government (who represent all the country), they have a far bigger mandate than the radicals.

People before profit, the socialist party, Workers and Unemployed Action Group, workers party, christian solidarity, & Fis Nua (split from the green) garnered a total of 36,465 1st preference votes out of a national total of 2,220,359. Not exactly an overwhelming mandate is it?

Irishgoatman

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Do they claim to represent or just be part of the 99% ?.

The banner on their website says we are the 99% - I read that as claiming to represent the 99%

odnauq

Let's not forget, the Turkish workers who helped rebuild Eyre Square were being paid 2 euros per hour. There will always be a need for protest!

Irishgoatman

Deleted User wrote: »

The banner on their website says we are the 99% - I read that as claiming to represent the 99%

Thank you. That answers my question exactly.

Pity that antoobrien hadn't read your piece that I was quoting from.

antoobrien

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Pity that antoobrien hadn't read your piece that I was quoting from.

I had, your question wasn't clear - hence my question.

Care to answer?

Irishgoatman

antoobrien wrote: »

I had, your question wasn't clear - hence my question.

Care to answer?

Yes.

pg633's post referred to ".....a demonstration that claims to represent the 99%".

My question was to him regarding ths statement and he has answered it.
If you go back and read his post it will all be clear.

If someone includes a quote in their posting I always go back and read the original, just to make sure that nothing is being taken out of context.

I hope that clears this up.

antoobrien

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Yes.

pg633's post referred to ".....a demonstration that claims to represent the 99%".

My question was to him regarding ths statement and he has answered it.
If you go back and read his post it will all be clear.

If someone includes a quote in their posting I always go back and read the original, just to make sure that nothing is being taken out of context.

I hope that clears this up.

Thanks it does.

The problem I had with your question was that there were multiple parties mentioned in the quote (the demo, the gov etc), so it wasn't particularly clear which one you were referring to.