Occupy Galway Group (mod note added)

Doc Ruby

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Why do some people assume that protesters must automatically be part of a fringe or left wing group?.

Yeah the question mark at the end of my comments denotes a question, not an assumption.

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Would you be happy if we added "ridge" to your name?.

Hahah, never spotted that before!

eire.man

Doc Ruby wrote: »

biko wrote: »

Doc Ruby, why are you including IRA? Do you seriously think Occupy Galway will want their help?

Of course not, although Sinn Fein are the political wing of the IRA, but I wouldn't mind a straight answer. If eire.man doesn't want to answer, my curiousity isn't particularly pressing.

i've already answered your "not so pressing" question,

i repeat ;

we are not approaching them at all and as far as i know have no intention to either,

we are however pooling resources with the likes of anti-eviction task force, anti-household charge groups and the likes

eire.man

in regards to my no more talking and instead more action comments above I have personally been watching whats happening globally since 2007 when i was still really busy running my own business,

I've been talking about most of what is hot topics down at the camp woth the public since 2007/8 and I personally am fed up with the lack of real gumption from our own people to come and mobilise with us!

if we had the numbers we could hold a weekly march through town, peaceful but showing strength in numbers and further aiding people to find their own inner courage to join us and become an even bigger movement.

Not one person who's had a hand at inflicting us all with such hardships couldnt give a fiddlers that 99% who read this will most definately have felt the pinch the past 3/4 years cos they haven't and it looks increasingly likely without protests that they'll ever be held accountable for their tragic actions.

if me or you acted like ahearn, cowen and a string of other politicians, some bankers etc. in the real world we would be hauled off to court and very quickly a jail cell one way or another so fast!! they say some of these people broke no actual laws so what can we do them for but hey look at how the state got Gilligan for Guerins murder, they locked him up for 20+ years for drug dealing without providing enough for 1 joint as evidence against him!!

If there was real political will/or fear of retribution from the public if they do nothing then we would see ways and means to bring people in and prosecute anyone who helped bring down a whole nation of people!!

Redhairedguy

eire.man wrote: »

I personally am fed up with the lack of real gumption from our own people to come and mobilise with us!

Unfortunately, the majority of Galwegians have few intentions in joining Occupy Galway, as they have little or no faith in the movement. The public view by a lot of people that I have spoken to (family, friends, work colleagues, customers); is that camp is really nothing more than a big boys club for your average bored weekend warrior. Also, I'm sorry but I refuse to believe that anyone can think that the camp is aesthetically pleasing. On numerous occasions, I've had people say to me that they feel embarrassed by the state of the place.

eire.man wrote: »

if we had the numbers we could hold a weekly march through town, peaceful but showing strength in numbers and further aiding people to find their own inner courage to join us and become an even bigger movement.

Would the camp not consider inviting members of the other national Occupy Groups down from time to time for marches and whatnot? You could return the favour and maybe add support in their areas too.

antoobrien

eire.man wrote: »

look at how the state got Gilligan for Guerins murder, they locked him up for 20+ years for drug dealing without providing enough for 1 joint as evidence against him!!

:eek:

I'd say there goes the remaining shred of credibility of occupy galway, but it never had any in the first place.

Irishgoatman

I would say there goes the credibility of the DPP!.

eire.man

eire.man wrote: »

if we had the numbers we could hold a weekly march through town, peaceful but showing strength in numbers and further aiding people to find their own inner courage to join us and become an even bigger movement.

Please organise a weekly march, or a monthly march. Please.

Seriously...PLEASE.

At the very least this will show how far away you are from representing the 99%

Eman Resu

Whatever happened to the #OccupyPyongyang group?

ben.schlomo

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I would say there goes the credibility of the DPP!.

Clutching at straws, if this is the route the supporters of OG are going down then ye are seriously wasting your own time.

inisboffin

antoobrien wrote: »

:eek:

I'd say there goes the remaining shred of credibility of occupy galway, but it never had any in the first place.

But by that logic couldn't you say 'there goes the remaining credibility of boards.ie'?

Isn't the Occupy movement made up of many people who don't necessarily agree on every point? One comment may not represent the ethos of all the people 'associated' just like one post on boards.ie by a 'member' does not represent it?

antoobrien

inisboffin wrote: »

But by that logic couldn't you say 'there goes the remaining credibility of boards.ie'?

No, not really because this quote suggests that a member of the group is talking.

eire.man wrote: »

if we had the numbers we could hold a weekly march through town, peaceful but showing strength in numbers and further aiding people to find their own inner courage to join us and become an even bigger movement.

Besides, if you talk to a member of a company you are talking to the "corporate entity" not the individual you are talking to. In speaking as a member, whether the other members like it or not, people hear the group talking.

inisboffin

antoobrien wrote: »

No, not really because this quote suggests that a member of the group is talking.

Besides, if you talk to a member of a company you are talking to the "corporate entity" not the individual you are talking to. In speaking as a member, whether the other members like it or not, people hear the group talking.

I get that, but aren't you applying 'Corporate Entity' logic to gatherings of people to whom that doesn't apply by the very nature of the way they are grouped?

I have spoken to more people in the Dublin camp than the Galway one (but a couple there). I understood it that people, while having *many* different viewpoints, were generally united in wanting at least greater awareness and platforms for addressing change in the current system, rather than a single solution.

I think if you simply take the fact that it is promoting additional discussion among people, (that wouldn't ordinarily have happened), then- at least partially - the Occupy movement *is* succeeding in something.

antoobrien

inisboffin wrote: »

I get that, but aren't you applying 'Corporate Entity' logic to gatherings of people to whom that doesn't apply by the very nature of the way they are grouped?

People don't hear an individual talking, they hear a member of a group talking. When a person associating themselves to a group talks - unless they make the contrary very clear - they are defacto representing the opinions of the group

Whether or not the group like it, doesn't matter how the group describe themselves.

inisboffin wrote: »

I think if you simply take the fact that it is promoting additional discussion among people, (that wouldn't ordinarily have happened), then- at least partially - the Occupy movement *is* succeeding in something.

The problem is that it's not promoting educated discussion, which is not only not a success but it's even more dangerous than a laissez faire attitude.

As a case in point was eire.mans refusal to answer the deficit question - by default (pardon the pun) it ignores the fact that the banks aren't where we're really spending money right now. In point of fact by the time we have to spend real money on the banks, the plan (facepalm) is to have the structure problems under control.

But then it seems that o.g. and their brethren don't want to discuss the real issues as to why we're in the mess were in - the massive overspends on sw, health (how have we put €12 billion into the system last year for such sh*t is beyond me) and PS pay.

eire.man

eire.man wrote: »

if we had the numbers we could hold a weekly march through town, peaceful but showing strength in numbers and further aiding people to find their own inner courage to join us and become an even bigger movement.

Is that not one of the objections to the continuing presence of the camp in Eyre Square though - you don't have the numbers.

I second DaCor's call for you to organise a regular protest march or rally.

If you truly had the support of the silent majority or the 99% you should be able to attract more to a rally every Saturday at 1 PM than to the camp.

If you don't have the support that would equally become apparent.

inisboffin

antoobrien wrote: »

People don't hear an individual talking, they hear a member of a group talking. When a person associating themselves to a group talks - unless they make the contrary very clear - they are defacto representing the opinions of the group

Whether or not the group like it, doesn't matter how the group describe themselves.

Then back to my original analogy of people hearing about 'those lot on boards.ie' talking about something. I don't think everyone sees Occupy as this black and white. Some do of course, but some see all (insert nationality, race, gender etc) as 'all the same' too!

antoobrien wrote: »

The problem is that it's not promoting educated discussion, which is not only not a success but it's even more dangerous than a laissez faire attitude.

Are you just referring to this *one* thread on this one website when you say 'not an educated' discussion? That is short sighted imo, as this is being discussed on many fora and in the real world :P too!

Also isn't 'educated' a relative term.

Sorry, I don't agree with the notion that *some* discussion is more dangerous. If anything is dangerous it's the limitation of discussion.

antoobrien

inisboffin wrote: »

Then back to my original analogy of people hearing about 'those lot on boards.ie' talking about something. I don't think everyone sees Occupy as this black and white.

Well the ones I've talked to, and have come on here, are all the same in that they don't want to admit the uncomfortable truth that we're not really spending as much on the banks as they want to let on.

inisboffin wrote: »

Are you just referring to this *one* thread on this one website when you say 'not an educated' discussion?

In this case yes, I am (or rather was at the time) referring to o.g but since you asked I'll extend it to what I've read from the dame street group over on irish economy as well.

inisboffin wrote: »

Also isn't 'educated' a relative term.

You're right, it is especially when talking about a situation as complex as the one we're in. Due consideration is need, which is something that appears to be sorely lacking.
E.g. I was told by a friend that would be described as "educated" (afaik not affiliated with o.g.) that we've spent €50 billion on the banks in the first half of 2011 - which is utter nonsense. When challenged about where he got that information, he read it in the papers - which if you believe them we've paid anywhere between €20 billion & €50 billion into Anglo alone (the first figure is close to the total paid to all banks since the mess started).

inisboffin wrote: »

Sorry, I don't agree with the notion that *some* discussion is more dangerous. If anything is dangerous it's the limitation of discussion.

I fundamentally disagree with you that discussions are not dangerous. If the topic and the listener are idiotic enough, an ill considered joke can lead to murder. So if the people involved in a discussion don't want to listen to things they don't like, or want to listen to the palatable lie the result can be very dangerous.

A good recent example of the palatable lie is the one enda fed us just before christmans - the one about the Irish people not being responsible for the mess we're in.

Give me a break, of course we are - nobody had a gun held to their head and told you have to buy property and spend thousands you don't have on your credit card, etc. Claiming that we - the people who spent vast amounts of money on the premise that recession was a thing of the past (now that's a concept I never saw in any economics book) - are not responsible is to lend credence to Mrs Quinn's defence that her husband out papers under her nose and told her to sign - the judge rightly laughed her out of court.

Now because of this mess people are claiming that it's not fair that they should have to pay for a mortgage they though was fair when they bought it or it's not worth what it used to be. Tough sh*t - I'm not paying for it, you took the risk, you suffer.

Red_Wake

An anti-eviction task force was mentioned a few pages back.

What exactly would this force be doing?

eire.man

Redhairedguy wrote: »

Would the camp not consider inviting members of the other national Occupy Groups down from time to time for marches and whatnot? You could return the favour and maybe add support in their areas too.

we do and when 4/5/6 of us return the favour it makes all the difference!! this is a countrywide problem, too much standing around making mental assumptions so as to validate your lack of courage to try or do something different.

the more I read from people who think (or more like it are "convinced"!!) one thing when the reality down the camp is totally opposite.

it's the 1% we're trying to fight here, only in Ireland would we have to fight with a big slice of the 99% first b4 we get anywhere!!

eire.man

Redhairedguy wrote: »

On numerous occasions, I've had people say to me that they feel embarrassed by the state of the place.

do me a favour so and tell everyone of your friends that I am more embarrassed for them.

eire.man

Red_Wake wrote: »

An anti-eviction task force was mentioned a few pages back.

What exactly would this force be doing?

not to be too sarcastic but what do you think it could possibly mean eh??

if its not obvious and you never tried it yourself you should really click this link, it'll blow you away it will

http://bit.ly/AE1MOF

Red_Wake

eire.man wrote: »

not to be too sarcastic but what do you think it could possibly mean eh??

if its not obvious and you never tried it yourself you should really click this link, it'll blow you away it will

http://bit.ly/AE1MOF

I'm wondering how this task force would achieve it's goals tbh.

Not willing to click on that link in work.

Would your task force be protesting peacefully, or would it be physically resisting evictions?

WallyGUFC

Dare I say it's people like antoobrien we need running this country. Knows far more about our current plight than anybody in that joke of a camp does. Thank God the Occupy movement will eventually die off, once you realise that for a long time you have had zero support.

eire.man

Red_Wake wrote: »

eire.man wrote: »

not to be too sarcastic but what do you think it could possibly mean eh??

if its not obvious and you never tried it yourself you should really click this link, it'll blow you away it will

http://bit.ly/AE1MOF

I'm wondering how this task force would achieve it's goals tbh.

very very easily actually

Red_Wake

eire.man wrote: »

very very easily actually

So are you going to answer my question?

eire.man

Red_Wake wrote: »

eire.man wrote: »

very very easily actually

So are you going to answer my question?

i already have above, i look forward to you getting off work to click the link i posted above giving you all the info you need to find out for yourself.

I've got better stuff to be doing, only to be asked the very same thing again tomorrow with someone else asking for info to be spelled out individually cos you're too lazy to look for yourselves.

We can only do so much and if you guys/gals have to be continually spoon-fed well then quite frankly I havent the time for that.

eire.man

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Dare I say it's people like antoobrien we need running this country. Knows far more about our current plight than anybody in that joke of a camp does. Thank God the Occupy movement will eventually die off, once you realise that for a long time you have had zero support.

you are so wrong!! as i keep saying here the levels of support huge but we need to start seeing that transform into numbers on he square.

I look forward to seeing the OAPs, Single Mothers, Farmers, Turf Cutters, ANTI-Eviction Taskforce, Islanders etc getting real mad from here on in.

WallyGUFC

eire.man wrote: »

you are so wrong!! as i keep saying here the levels of support huge but we need to start seeing that transform into numbers on he square.

I look forward to seeing the OAPs, Single Mothers, Farmers, Turf Cutters, ANTI-Eviction Taskforce, Islanders etc getting real mad from here on in.

We're all angry. We're all disgusted by the mess Fianna Fáil made of this country. We're all pissed off at austerity. But it's the reality. Just because we're angry doesn't mean we want to sit in Eyre Square day and night sipping camomile tea and reading Agatha Christie books that the dole paid for. Do you not realise that doing nothing (as you are doing in Eyre Square, nothing of substance) will not change a thing? You're not protesting, you're sitting by, like the rest of us, except you think that by alligning yourself to some "global" movement you're making a difference. Absolutely no difference is being made. Not a single ounce has changed since Occupy started, nor will it ever change. If there were true increases in support there'd be more people joining in day by day. There isn't. Grow up.

eire.man

WallyGUFC wrote: »

eire.man wrote: »

you are so wrong!! as i keep saying here the levels of support huge but we need to start seeing that transform into numbers on he square.

I look forward to seeing the OAPs, Single Mothers, Farmers, Turf Cutters, ANTI-Eviction Taskforce, Islanders etc getting real mad from here on in.

We're all angry. We're all disgusted by the mess Fianna Fáil made of this country. We're all pissed off at austerity. But it's the reality. Just because we're angry doesn't mean we want to sit in Eyre Square day and night sipping camomile tea and reading Agatha Christie books that the dole paid for. Do you not realise that doing nothing (as you are doing in Eyre Square, nothing of substance) will not change a thing? You're not protesting, you're sitting by, like the rest of us, except you think that by alligning yourself to some "global" movement you're making a difference. Absolutely no difference is being made. Not a single ounce has changed since Occupy started, nor will it ever change. If there were true increases in support there'd be more people joining in day by day. There isn't. Grow up.

theres a hint of truth in your post there except we dont read agatha christy books and thats a fact, the only reason theres nothing being done in eyre sq is everyone who has the time to give hasnt come down to us yet, as i said a few posts previous we are not looking for people to live down there nor are we looking for people to be there 7 days a week either but one day a week with a mass of people and we could make a decent march in town, with that more people will realise "hey, i could join in and help make up the numbers by just being there" but no, theres only a handful of people angry enough to make a stand so far,

i repeat, i look forward to the joining forces with the groups mentioned above as they've already reached their tipping point.

ben.schlomo

eire.man wrote: »

theres a hint of truth in your post there except we dont read agatha christy books and thats a fact, the only reason theres nothing being done in eyre sq is everyone who has the time to give hasnt come down to us yet, as i said a few posts previous we are not looking for people to live down there nor are we looking for people to be there 7 days a week either but one day a week with a mass of people and we could make a decent march in town, with that more people will realise "hey, i could join in and help make up the numbers by just being there" but no, theres only a handful of people angry enough to make a stand so far,

i repeat, i look forward to the joining forces with the groups mentioned above as they've already reached their tipping point.

But does that not make a mockery of the constant claims ye make about representing the 99%??? We keep saying it but ye aren't listening.

inisboffin

antoobrien wrote: »

I fundamentally disagree with you that discussions are not dangerous. If the topic and the listener are idiotic enough, an ill considered joke can lead to murder.

Fair enough. We do fundamentally disagree on this point. To decide what 'should' and shouldn't be discussed and who is 'qualified' to discuss it is far more dangerous IMO. And you mention lack of education re the actual facts - I agree that we all need to be more informed, but statements that stymie debate, if anything, go against the act of trying to glean more facts.