Occupy Galway Group (mod note added)

biko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg6ayc-w3bE

The NDAA is the $662 billion National Defense Authorization Act that President Obama signed into law on New Year’s Eve. In addition to funding the United States’ ongoing wars and the 900 military bases it maintains in 130 countries, the bill provides for the U.S. president to have draconian worldwide authority to have the military seize anyone suspected of “terrorism” or providing aid to terrorists or “associated forces” anywhere in the world, including U.S. citizens on American soil, and detain them without charge or trial indefinitely.

http://files.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/8230.jpg

mcmurphy995

I support Occupy !!!!

hippygran

mcmurphy995 wrote: »

I support Occupy !!!!

Thank you..the occupy movement appreciates your support. Now..are you near to an occupy camp and do you have skills they can use? Not that you have to be, of course..the support and spreading the word is what matters but still...

hippygran

biko wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg6ayc-w3bE

The NDAA is the $662 billion National Defense Authorization Act that President Obama signed into law on New Year’s Eve. In addition to funding the United States’ ongoing wars and the 900 military bases it maintains in 130 countries, the bill provides for the U.S. president to have draconian worldwide authority to have the military seize anyone suspected of “terrorism” or providing aid to terrorists or “associated forces” anywhere in the world, including U.S. citizens on American soil, and detain them without charge or trial indefinitely.

http://files.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/8230.jpg

This is scary stuff!

antoobrien

Doc Ruby wrote: »

They didn't withdraw the write down because of a court order, but because of "administrative difficulties" whatever that means. Bottom line is a debt for equity swap is standard practise for such situations, all around the world, right up until the government issued its blanket guarantee.

I never said why how the case was settled - out of court "The bank said the action had been withdrawn and “resolved to the parties’ mutual satisfaction” - but as usual the point is being missed: the (evil, if you listen to some of the hysterics on here) bondholders are ultimately ordinary people like you and me.

skelliser wrote: »

gotta disagree, junior bondholders should share the burden if not get nothing.

The two examples given were junior bondholders - they outcry was horrific in both cases because these junior bondholders were ordinary people.

skelliser wrote: »

Let the ECB worry about the banks.

That's what's actually happening and guess what - it's not working. Why? The banks won't lend to each other because they know just how much money they owe each other. So instead they're depositing money with the ECB, who are guaranteeing the loans to other banks instead.

Why is this happening - because of people calling to burn bondholders - the banks are afraid that they won't be able to pay out deposits when the people come looking for their money back. When that happens we will ahve the 30s all over again.

Btw,if we burn the junior bondholders, the seniors will (well they already have) get really nervous about their money. This drives up the cost of borrowing (see the bond yields for the past 18 months, you know when the talk started about not paying debts.

skelliser wrote: »

Austerity doesnt work.

Yeah but we haven't seen austerity yet, not real austerity. Greece have seen real austerity, they've cut massively, PS pay, pensions & services - across the board. What we have seen in Ireland is nibbling around the edges and the farce of the CPA (which our union backed government don't want to touch).

No, what we've seen is an attempt at Keynesian style current spending stimulus spending (by not cutting PS pay & SW) - while taking on austerity on capital items (roads, schools hospitals - fortunately some of this has been reversed in the budget last year).

What we should be seeing is the reverse: pour money into capital projects - these create jobs - while cutting PS pay & SW because the taxes required to support these cripples taxpayers.

For those of you too yound to remember (early 30's myself) - all this has happened before, in the 80's & 90s. In the 80's the bond markets decided that we couldn't keep spending the amount of money we were spending and decided to stop lending us money. In the 90's it was the currency markets, again deciding that we were in trouble. And when we took the appropriate measures the markets left us alone.


Let's take the hypothetical situation that we decide to stop paying unsecured bondholders (i.e. senior bonds, because the juniors are taking hits) - we won't be loaned money by anybody - including the imf (it's one of the terms of the bailout).

So, we have a deficit of €15 billion on services - this will have to be made up. A cut of this magnitude will mean a cut to taxes - PAYE (from PS pay), VAT, excise etc - so this will reduce the tax take as well, so the adjustment will need to be greater than €15 billion or we won't be able to pay for services, SW & pay by the end of the year.

So where do we find the immediate savings you are in effect calling for?

hippygran

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/48099/hard-pressed-householders-to-protest-against-charges-at-city-hall

There is a protest tomorrow at 3.30pm at Galway City Hall against the household tax. There are several groups taking part in this and we hope to see large numbers of people there. If you want a cuppa before or after the protest, feel free to pop along to the Occupy Galway Camp before 3pm.

Doc Ruby

biko wrote: »

the bill provides for the U.S. president to have draconian worldwide authority to have the military seize anyone suspected of “terrorism” or providing aid to terrorists or “associated forces” anywhere in the world, including U.S. citizens on American soil, and detain them without charge or trial indefinitely.

They've been able to seize and kidnap Irish citizens on Irish soil without access to legal representation or the Irish legal system for quite a while now.

US INVESTIGATORS, including CIA agents, will be allowed interrogate Irish citizens on Irish soil in total secrecy, under an agreement signed between Ireland and the US last week.Suspects will also have to give testimony and allow property to be searched and seized even if what the suspect is accused of is not a crime in Ireland.

Under 'instruments of agreement' signed last week by Justice Minister Michael McDowell, Ireland and the US pledged mutual co-operation in the investigation of criminal activity. It is primarily designed to assist America's so-called 'war on terror' in the wake of the September 11 atrocities.

The deal was condemned yesterday by the Irish Council for Civil Liberties (ICCL) as "an appalling signal of how the rights of Irish citizens are considered by the minister when engaging in international relations". The ICCL said it appeared to go far beyond even what has been agreed between EU countries.

On signing the agreement, the minister said that "the international community must do everything it can to combat terrorism with every means at its disposal.

"Ireland will not be found wanting," he added.

The treaty will give effect to agreements on Mutual Legal Assistance and Extradition signed by the EU and the US in June 2003. These are aimed at building on mutual assistance and extradition arrangements.

Although the Department of Justice insists that the arrangement merely updates existing agreements, it goes much further. The US may ask Irish authorities:

To track down people in Ireland.

Transfer prisoners in Irish custody to the US.

Carry out searches and seize evidence on behalf of the US Government.

Signed and sealed without debate, discussion, or transparency. Something very ugly is rising across the water.

K-9

antoobrien wrote: »

Yeah but we haven't seen austerity yet, not real austerity. Greece have seen real austerity, they've cut massively, PS pay, pensions & services - across the board. What we have seen in Ireland is nibbling around the edges and the farce of the CPA (which our union backed government don't want to touch).

The last 3 budgets have taken Billions out of the economy, Greece and ourselves have had the biggest cuts in recent first world history. PS pay and welfare have already taken big hits with the pay bill substantially down. Welfare is harder to control because of extra numbers. The cuts mightn't go far enough for some but to say there hasn't been real austerity isn't true.

antoobrien

K-9 wrote: »

The last 3 budgets have taken Billions out of the economy, Greece and ourselves have had the biggest cuts in recent first world history. PS pay and welfare have already taken big hits with the pay bill substantially down. Welfare is harder to control because of extra numbers. The cuts mightn't go far enough for some but to say there hasn't been real austerity isn't true.

In 2009 the voted current expenditure (spending on services - sw, health education etc.) was €40.255 billion.

Last year it was €41.419 billion.

Still think we've seen real austerity?

K-9

antoobrien wrote: »

In 2009 the voted current expenditure (spending on services - sw, health education etc.) was €40.255 billion.

Last year it was €41.419 billion.

Still think we've seen real austerity?

Where are you getting your figures from?

2009 here and I don't see €40.255 Billion.

http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=SNA_TABLE11

Irishgoatman

eire.man wrote: »

i think you mean buy silver? i think thats what Max Keiser was saying

?

Irishgoatman

skelliser wrote: »

However unsecured junior bondholders do not share the same rights. In return for a greater risk of losing their money they would get a bigger return on their investment then a senior bondholder. That is the risk.
They are at the bottom of the picking order, normally they are first to get burned.
They understand the risks. In an normal country where this happened they would have immediately written of their chances of getting there money back. They are not stupid.
Christmas came early for them when the Irish Gov said they would pay them all back.

Apparently on the stock exchanges in London Ireland is considered a laughing stock for paying these bonds. I remember reading a story were Lenihan was having a conference call with a few dozen traders and they were sniggering and laughing at him.

QUOTE]

I'm really just catching up.
I have always said that I did not understand why junior bond holders could not be "burned".

You, Skelliser, have explaind why they should have been (which I've always understood) so can anyone give a good reason why that didn't happen?.

Enda and noonan should it would! ( pre election!!!!).

End of story perhaps?.

Irishgoatman

I'm not going to quote from, but I just get the feeling that biko and Doc Ruby in their latest post are going slightly off subject?

As far as I am aware, America's war attitude to the rest of the world doesn't have a lot to do with this thread. And yes, I know that by saying this I am opening a can of worms!
This thread, I thought, is supposed to be concerned with the "Occupy....." group (s).

Unless it is being expanded.

K-9

I'm really just catching up.
I have always said that I did not understand why junior bond holders could not be "burned".

You, Skelliser, have explaind why they should have been (which I've always understood) so can anyone give a good reason why that didn't happen?.

Enda and noonan should it would! ( pre election!!!!).

End of story perhaps?.

Enda and Noonan said loads of things pre election, why people believe what politicians say in manifestos and PR spin I don't know, you'd think they'd know by now. If you listen to debates you get the real policy. FF challenged FG on the bondholder position, FG said it would be within an EU agreement. I suppose it isn't as eye catching and vote gathering. Same with the property tax, FG never said they disagreed with it, they said it was a Council issue, passed the buck.

I don't find these things surprising because I don't swallow political spin, I listen when the spiel is challenged.

skelliser

Irishgoatman wrote: »

You, Skelliser, have explaind why they should have been (which I've always understood) so can anyone give a good reason why that didn't happen?.

Enda and noonan should it would! ( pre election!!!!).

End of story perhaps?.

Whats done is done
It all goes back to the bank guarantee. They worst decision in the history of the state.
Junior bondholders should have been left out.
The real question is why Lenny and biffo had a blanket gaurantee?!
i suspect we all now the answer!


If at the start of this mess they said they would burn them then yes it would have been grand. But, as someone else already said, to burn now would spook the markets and cause yields to rise further.

So imo its now a purely political decision to continue on our current path in the hope that or so called partners in europe will "reward" us with a nice deal of some sort.

On the other hand Greece played hardball and has so far won on average a 50% right down on debt.

Remember folks these debts aren't and never were ours! They were the friends of FF and to a lesser extent FG.

Watch now as this supposed referendum is played out on the media and our esteemed leaders.
Already they are saying its a vote on our membership ffs!
vote no and its armaggeddon/economic collapse etc!!

remember how lisbon was "vote yes to jobs", it had nothing to do with jobs!!
i wonder were those jobs are?!

K-9

skelliser wrote: »

On the other hand Greece played hardball and has so far won on average a 50% right down on debt.

What hardball did the Greeks play? The 50% hair cut was agreed pre the whole referenda pantomine.

biko

biko wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg6ayc-w3bE

Hmm, let me see,
- unauthorised gathering of a large group causing a disruption and being a nusance
- acting in such a manner as to provoke confrontation with the authorities
- Ring leaders arrested

not much different to this
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-10-01-Wall-Street-protest-Brooklyn-Bridge.htm

These videos by the urban camping movement mean little.

If I got 20 mates and went down to the Jervis shopping center and did what they did I'd be arrested too, and rightly so.

hippygran

hippygran wrote: »

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/48099/hard-pressed-householders-to-protest-against-charges-at-city-hall

There is a protest tomorrow at 3.30pm at Galway City Hall against the household tax. There are several groups taking part in this and we hope to see large numbers of people there. If you want a cuppa before or after the protest, feel free to pop along to the Occupy Galway Camp before 3pm.

Unfortunately I cant make this as I have to work. Hopefully someone can post some pics here as I'm dying to see how few people show up to this

factual lies

Deleted User wrote: »

Hmm, let me see,
- unauthorised gathering of a large group causing a disruption and being a nusance
- acting in such a manner as to provoke confrontation with the authorities
- Ring leaders arrested

not much different to this
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-10-01-Wall-Street-protest-Brooklyn-Bridge.htm

These videos by the urban camping movement mean little.

If I got 20 mates and went down to the Jervis shopping center and did what they did I'd be arrested too, and rightly so.

exactly, its called loitering and causing a public disturbance.

antoobrien

K-9 wrote: »

Where are you getting your figures from?

2009 here and I don't see €40.255 Billion.

http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=SNA_TABLE11

2009 exchequer statement

2011 exchequer statement

Read the first line under expenditure.

ben.schlomo

Deleted User wrote: »

Hmm, let me see,
- unauthorised gathering of a large group causing a disruption and being a nusance
- acting in such a manner as to provoke confrontation with the authorities
- Ring leaders arrested

not much different to this
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-10-01-Wall-Street-protest-Brooklyn-Bridge.htm

These videos by the urban camping movement mean little.

If I got 20 mates and went down to the Jervis shopping center and did what they did I'd be arrested too, and rightly so.

Ah yeah but no point not showing it as it displays 'the man' keeping them held down, not allowing them their right to disturb other people going about their business.:rolleyes:

skelliser

K-9 wrote: »

What hardball did the Greeks play? The 50% hair cut was agreed pre the whole referenda pantomine.

how about a year of rioting
constant political instability
threat to put a referenda to Greeks on their bailout


Iceland did similar things, in fact they put IMF intervention to the people.
They told the EU and the IMF to **** off.

This year Iceland has returned to growth.

I distinctly remember our leaders desperately trying to distance Ireland's situation/similarities to Iceland at the time of the collapse.

hippygran

hippygran wrote: »

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/48099/hard-pressed-householders-to-protest-against-charges-at-city-hall

There is a protest tomorrow at 3.30pm at Galway City Hall against the household tax. There are several groups taking part in this and we hope to see large numbers of people there. If you want a cuppa before or after the protest, feel free to pop along to the Occupy Galway Camp before 3pm.

http://www.facebook.com/GalwayAdvertiser

It's not funny now as the demonstrators burst into the chamber and one of them throws a chair at the councillors. Gardai have hunted the assailant and squad cars with wailing sirens arrive outside.

Do you still support this protest?
Is it fair to say this reflects badly on Occupy Galway?

Hello world

What are the occupy group planing to achieve? just wondering most protesters seem to have a goal (like students protest because of increasing fees and what not, nurses about pay cuts) but all i haven't seen what the protester are fighting for and they don't seem to know themselves, they might as well be marching around with signs that say "Something is wrong! But we are not sure what it is yet."

Doc Ruby

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you still support this protest?

That depends, did the chair hit the councillors?

eire.man

pg633 wrote: »

hippygran wrote: »

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/48099/hard-pressed-householders-to-protest-against-charges-at-city-hall

There is a protest tomorrow at 3.30pm at Galway City Hall against the household tax. There are several groups taking part in this and we hope to see large numbers of people there. If you want a cuppa before or after the protest, feel free to pop along to the Occupy Galway Camp before 3pm.

http://www.facebook.com/GalwayAdvertiser

It's not funny now as the demonstrators burst into the chamber and one of them throws a chair at the councillors. Gardai have hunted the assailant and squad cars with wailing sirens arrive outside.

Do you still support this protest?
Is it fair to say this reflects badly on Occupy Galway?

nobody threw a chair at anyone, nobody was arrested or chased, no wailing squad cars either as all the garda were already there to keep the peace ffs!!

jesus wept!!

eire.man

Hello world wrote: »

What are the occupy group planing to achieve? just wondering most protesters seem to have a goal (like students protest because of increasing fees and what not, nurses about pay cuts) but all i haven't seen what the protester are fighting for and they don't seem to know themselves, they might as well be marching around with signs that say "Something is wrong! But we are not sure what it is yet."

no the problem is that in all fairness, there is so much wrong its hard to know where to start really!!

antoobrien

eire.man wrote: »

nobody threw a chair at anyone

http://www.galwaynews.ie/23628-gardai-escort-rowdy-protestors-city-council-chamber

GARDAI ESCORT ROWDY PROTESTORS FROM CITY COUNCIL CHAMBER

A meeting of Galway City Council had to be adjourned for a time this evening after a number of protestors stormed the Council Chamber.

The protest got underway around 3p.m. organised by the United Left Alliance branch in Galway against the household charge.

It started off peacefully outside city hall but became rowdy when protestors entered the chamber and threw chairs as Gardai removed them.


After 15 minutes of an adjournment, the meeting resumed and is well
underway at City Hall now. The protestors have also left the vicinty.

Let's see, two (reasonably) reputable news outlets report it, and the protestors(?) claim otherwise.

I know who I believe - not the protestors.

eire.man

antoobrien wrote: »

eire.man wrote: »

nobody threw a chair at anyone

http://www.galwaynews.ie/23628-gardai-escort-rowdy-protestors-city-council-chamber

GARDAI ESCORT ROWDY PROTESTORS FROM CITY COUNCIL CHAMBER

A meeting of Galway City Council had to be adjourned for a time this evening after a number of protestors stormed the Council Chamber.

The protest got underway around 3p.m. organised by the United Left Alliance branch in Galway against the household charge.

It started off peacefully outside city hall but became rowdy when protestors entered the chamber and threw chairs as Gardai removed them.


After 15 minutes of an adjournment, the meeting resumed and is well
underway at City Hall now. The protestors have also left the vicinty.

Let's see, two (reasonably) reputable news outlets report it, and the protestors(?) claim otherwise.

I know who I believe - not the protestors.

and this is more than likely why some will never have a real idea whats going on around them, best of luck to you in the future you've placed in the hands of "reputable" (hahahaha!!) new outlets.

eire.man

just so ye all know, i've been reporting posts that have been spreading the lies of these 2 reputable new sources concering the chair that was most definately not thrown before/during or in fact, after the protest!!