Occupy Galway Group (mod note added)

desaparecidos

Bozacke wrote: »

Hopefully this is just the beginning, Rome wasn't built in a day. The unbalance in wealth has annoyed me for a long time and things are just getting worse. I've been saying for a long time that the only way things will ever be righted is a revolution and maybe this is the beginning. I assume you aren't part of the 1% since very few are and I hope you never feel the pain of unemployment and the squeeze that the rich are putting slowly but surely on the rest of the world. The had a lot, but that wasn't enough, they want it all and eventually that greed will be their downfall. I just can't understand how people cannot see this be so apathetic about the protesters.

And to "balance the wealth" what do you propose? Communism?

Maybe the 1% worked hard for their fortune. The Irish are such begrudgers :pac:

Head The Wall

We Need Community wrote: »

Reading through this thread it seems that some posters on here think that inequality is ok or is it just another chance to sneer at others because they are a bit different. I was talking to some of the protesters last night and they seemed like decent people who were just sick of the inequalities.

Humans are all different so there will always be inequality, to think otherwise is naive. What about the guy on the dole for the last 15 years working the welfare system Vs the person recently unemployed and having to wait months to get approved and having to beg the CWO to "feed the kids" (I know) in the meantime.

Communism = equality??? No thanks, I studied hard and worked hard so I will reap my rewards, I'm not in the 1% but I'm happy and thats what is important to me

inisboffin

skelliser wrote: »

My suggestion is to stop following this occupy thing and do what i suggested earlier in the thread and occupy the NAMA ghost estates.
You will not only get your publicity but you will expose the corrupt nature of this country by exposing the hyprocrisy that is NAMA in a very real sense.
At the end of the day this recession/credit crisis began in the US with sub prime leading to buy houses. Houses and mortgages are at the very heart of this mess so why not go back to where it began.

Will you start it? Seriously, if you do, post info on here.
And I don't think that and the Occupy protests have to exclude each other.

One person I spoke to (Dublin) talked about gathering awareness more than demands *at this point*. I think even getting people together, discussing issues that we are almost all facing, *in itself* is a positive thing.

ted2767

desaparecidos wrote: »

And to "balance the wealth" what do you propose? Communism?

Maybe the 1% worked hard for their fortune. The Irish are such begrudgers :pac:

In light of the last few years that is an idiotic comment.
When you have people like Warren Buffet saying things are unbalanced you know it's time for change.
Is it begrudgery to question equality in life, to question a system whose inherant greed led to a cut in everyone's standard of living?
I don't think so.

Ficheall

inisboffin wrote: »

If we get into discussing how world finances and politics are intertwined we'll definitely derail this thread. Off the top of my head: Politically caused famines, destruction of natural resources for wealth leading to famine.

Back on topic - Just out of curiosity - are the people on here simply objecting to the Galway protest *just* objecting to the Galway one, or is just in Ireland, or Europe, or to *all* the 'occupy' protests?

Fair enough - I'll agree that a serious overhaul of politics would benefit the world hugely. And I've no problem with people protesting about certain things being crookedly run, or offering possible fixes for injustices, etc, but these protests doesn't seem to do that. The complaints seem to focus largely on the fact that some people have way more money than the rest of us. They seem to have no defined goal other than to complain, rendering the entire business a little pointless...

At the moment I want enough money to live comfortably, and in the future I hope to earn enough money to make sure that any kids of mine are also afforded the opportunity to live comfortably. However, whilst acknowledging that the world is largely unfair and considering myself a fairly altruistic sort, I'm fairly certain that I've contributed less than a total of, say, a grand to any charitable causes. If I wanted to change the world, clothe the poor, cure the sick and feed the hungry, the best thing I could do would surely be to become one of the wealthiest mofos around and get cracking.
I'm not saying that that's what most of the 1% are doing, but for those that are, I'll wager they could account for as much do-gooding as quite a few of those folk who are camping out in cities complaining that there are people with an awful lot of money out there.

PomBear

Wompa1 wrote: »

how is it irrelevant. The protestors are asking for the oil and gas resources to be returned to Ireland right now...that's f'kin stupid. I'm not putting my name to that.

Clearly it's an anti-austerity protest. Not getting into a Corrib Gas debate but look at the facts, look at Norway's case, look at academic opinion above journalistic, not really "f*kin stupid" and reaks to me as a cop-out and an excuse not to get up off ones arse!

Mrs OBumble

Bozacke wrote: »

The protesters are the 99% who have not benefited from the various financial bailouts, tax breaks, and other subsidies that the dominant 1% of the population have gained over the past several years. This represents over 99% of the population who are students, workers, homemakers, the unemployed and retired

The problem with that statement is the huge proportion of people in this country (I don't have figures / links at hand ... something like 30 - 40% though) pay NO tax because their income is below the threshold. You simply cannot get a bigger tax break than 100%. And I know more than a few who believe it's stupid to earn more than your tax-free threshold (minimum 15k for a single person, goes up from there if you're married, old, single-parent, etc), so make sure they don't.

Sure some have had the size of their tax break reduced

The election of Fine Gael, whose policies supported keeping the banking system functioning, suggests that the majority of Irish people don't have a problem with these policies. Unless you're saying the election was rigged?

ted2767

Head The Wall wrote: »

We Need Community wrote: »

Reading through this thread it seems that some posters on here think that inequality is ok or is it just another chance to sneer at others because they are a bit different. I was talking to some of the protesters last night and they seemed like decent people who were just sick of the inequalities.

Humans are all different so there will always be inequality, to think otherwise is naive. What about the guy on the dole for the last 15 years working the welfare system Vs the person recently unemployed and having to wait months to get approved and having to beg the CWO to "feed the kids" (I know) in the meantime.

Communism = equality??? No thanks, I studied hard and worked hard so I will reap my rewards, I'm not in the 1% but I'm happy and thats what is important to me

So you have been completely unaffected as a result of cutbacks?
You cannot see the link between the ban king system as it stands and everyday life.
Your "happy and thats whats important to me", you're a selfish delusional indivudial.

inisboffin

JustMary wrote: »

The election of Fine Gael, whose policies supported keeping the banking system functioning, suggests that the majority of Irish people don't have a problem with these policies. Unless you're saying the election was rigged?

Well you bring up a good point there. Ask a lot of people here and you'll often hear 'ah sure they're all the same' or 'I'm not bothering my arse as it won't have any impact' or the classic 'I'm voting for X as he's not the worst of them'.
There's a huge amount of apathy in this country, and if nothing else, the protests may get people talking more.

skelliser

inisboffin wrote: »

Will you start it? Seriously, if you do, post info on here.
And I don't think that and the Occupy protests have to exclude each other.

One person I spoke to (Dublin) talked about gathering awareness more than demands *at this point*. I think even getting people together, discussing issues that we are almost all facing, *in itself* is a positive thing.

its already started
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/squatter-told-he-can-stay-in-nama-ghost-estate-home-2907066.html?start=3

This mans actions will force the irish people to confront the issues of debt forgiveness, social housing and NAMA.
Due to irish people inherit begrudgery and love affair with the land i would hedge that this guys actions have gotten countless more people talking
about the state of this country then these occupy protests.

inisboffin

skelliser wrote: »

its already started
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/squatter-told-he-can-stay-in-nama-ghost-estate-home-2907066.html?start=3

This mans actions will force the irish people to confront the issues of debt forgiveness, social housing and NAMA.

Great! You're spearheading the Galway one though, right?

Ficheall

higamos hogamos wrote: »

Perhaps I have the wrong idea. Sure maybe things are grand after all! I should be thankful that I live in a country of such bountiful opportunity. Where as a college graduate my employment options are as diverse and exciting as they presently are. Option One- Working a basic job for a basic wage, who knows I may even get a name badge. Option Two- The Dole, it is supposedly a lifestyle choice these days after all! . Option Three- A trip to a foreign employment destination, a true jet-set existence! Anyway I can think about all this while attending all the going away parties for people I grew up with. Every grey cloud I suppose.

Interesting. What options do you feel you should have "as a college graduate"?
I hope to finish up in college at Christmas, and I'm delighted that I've those three options to choose from.

AngeGal

I have read the thread and still have no idea what the protesters are seeking to achieve except generalities like more equality, a noble aspiration but how exactly do the protesters believe this could be achieved?

skelliser

inisboffin wrote: »

Great! You're spearheading the Galway one though, right?

i prefer to direct proceedings from the back of the class!!

now unleash the flying monkeys!!

higamos hogamos

Ficheall wrote: »

Interesting. What options do you feel you should have "as a college graduate"?
I hope to finish up in college at Christmas, and I'm delighted that I've those three options to choose from.

Those three? Really?

Let's not get silly here.

cheesemaker

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15326636

Mrs OBumble

8am. The 53% are up, showered, dressed and heading to work. No signs of life from the 99% camp yet.

Bozacke

JustMary wrote: »

The problem with that statement is the huge proportion of people in this country (I don't have figures / links at hand ... something like 30 - 40% though) pay NO tax because their income is below the threshold. You simply cannot get a bigger tax break than 100%. And I know more than a few who believe it's stupid to earn more than your tax-free threshold (minimum 15k for a single person, goes up from there if you're married, old, single-parent, etc), so make sure they don't.

Sure some have had the size of their tax break reduced

The election of Fine Gael, whose policies supported keeping the banking system functioning, suggests that the majority of Irish people don't have a problem with these policies. Unless you're saying the election was rigged?

Listen Mary, I have a problem with people like you who try and belittle the protesters as that of a bunch of crusties and crazies and throw out random statistics. I pay a lot of taxes and I am far from the rich, looking around me and seeing how much more wealth many seem to have I question if I'm even middle class anymore. I work hard and pay my taxes and i have all my life, I went to University and have what should be considered a good job, but despite that I am struggling financially. I am sick and tired of seeing the banks get bailouts and then big bonuses. Meanwhile my mortgage payments, taxes, electricity, fuel, etc. are all going up and myself and many like me are forced to take pay cuts and seeing our pensions and savings drastically cut. Just on the news this morning a survey said most Irish employees will not get any pay increase while 5% they will see additional pay cuts of around 10%. Meanwhile, corporate profits continue to rise. And all I here is mouthpieces like you claiming the rich deserve it and the rest are just lazy begrudgers, well I'm sorry but in mine and most cases that is far from the truth!! The laws around the world are wrong and need to be amended.

People say it's free enterprise and fair play to the rich they earned it and no one has a God given right to a job, but also no one has a God given right to the protection of their money, assets an inheritance either through natural disaster, technological changes, market crashes, theft or invasion. But we as a society have put together a pretty good structure, but unfortunately it seems to protect and cater to some more than others and society is financially out of balance. How is it that the top 300,000 Americans now enjoy almost as much income as the bottom 150 million and the percentages aren't much different in Ireland or almost anywhere else, including China. Do the math, that's 0.12% with as much or more wealth than the other 99.88%. Does that sound right? Absolutely not and don't tell me the 0.12% deserve it, do you really believe they work harder than the rest? No, it's just the unbalanced lines of our society and the same society that protects them and their money. The only reason the rich have so much money is because of technological advances - which most of them had nothing to do with, the hard work of many people being marginally paid and the government and the infrastructure around them that the taxpayers have financed. Why is it that Governments are so quick to bail out the likes of Goldman Sachs and Anglo Irish bank, yet others in our society are ignored? Certainly these bankers don't have a God given right to be bailed out after they fail! Why is it that many bankers and Wall Street employees who's companies were bailed out received large bonuses only a few months after being propped up with money from tax payers, including AIB, BOI, Anglo and the rest of them. Yes, Corporations can move jobs abroad where labour is cheaper, but the savings isn't always passed on to the end consumer, since in many cases cheaper labour simply means bigger profits for a select few. What about the millions of people who worked for many of these large corporations - only to learn that their years of hard work and dedication is rewarded by their jobs being transferred to places like China and India not necessarily because the corporation needed to do this to compete, but in many cases because it would ensure greater profits for a select few. The balance of the world’s money has been shifting to a very small elite few and squeezing the rest of us for too long now and I’ve been wondering why people haven’t been protesting in the street about it, maybe things weren’t bad enough to push people that far and many live in a dream world thinking they too can be rich or hope to win Lotto, but reality bites and there is no tooth fairy and eventually there will be a revolution if the balance isn’t restored. Laugh all you want, but there are plenty of intelligent and educated people that are hurting, people that have worked hard all their lives and now because of circumstance have very little to show for it and they are angry and their voices need to be heard. All the elite few have to do is throw the rest a bone once in a while and once people get a little bit of security and when things aren't too bad, they become too preoccupied to protests. However, the elite few are very greedy and in the end that greed will probably be their downfall. This is only the beginning and if real reform doesn’t happen, there will be a financial revolution. I'm not for Communism in any way and if the rich weren't so greedy we could have continued with the status quo, but the system in place is broken and needs to be fixed!!

Bozacke

desaparecidos wrote: »

And to "balance the wealth" what do you propose? Communism?

Maybe the 1% worked hard for their fortune. The Irish are such begrudgers :pac:

Your type make me sick!! See my reply to JustMary above!!

No, I don't propose communism, just a fair system. It's strange the same people that complain about Communism and Socialism didn't mind it when the banks were bailed out! And many of the ultra rich didn't work too hard for their money not as hard as many of us and some of them didn't work at all. What about the Queen and the royal family? Their family money started generations ago and came on the backs of others, many Irish who starved and today they are getting richer and richer. Ironically many of the rich got their initial stake from illegal and/or immoral acts, like the Bush family's big initial stake came from Prescott Bush's money laundering and gun running for the Nazi's. The Kennedy family got their fisrt big stake as bootleggers. The ESAT scandal, I suspect half of the rich in Ireland got their start from brown envelopes. let's face it, if we had a fair system no one would be protesting and if the lopsided finances in the world get worse, there will be more than just protests!

zarquon

Bozacke, just to put things into perspective what is your salary. I ask because i see many complaining about financial difficulty on here that earn a lot more than myself whereas i do not have these difficulties. I think part of the problem is down to individuals who simply cannot manage personal finance correctly but yet seem have to all the solutions to national finance! I'm not casting dispersions as your salary could be extremely low but i would be interested to know. My opinion is that only those who have a proven track record of good financial management should be making any claims or offering advise on financial matters. It's akin to Brian Kerr trying to tell Alex Ferguson how to manage a football team which sounds completely ludicrous but yet that is what happens all the time in financial matters.

Bozacke

First off, I don't post my salary on message boards and it is really inconsequential, since you don't know how hard I work or the personal situation of myself or my family. I also didn't see you post your salary. I can tell you, I live a very frugal life which I have to manage very carefully. Sadly, I have always lived a frugal life and never ran wild during the Celtic tiger, yet still be punished because of others that benefited during the boom. I never said that I had the answers to National fiance, but the system is broken and needs to be fixed.

Wompa1

Moan Moan Moan. It's the internet JustMary can post her point of view on here, why get so bent out of shape? Everybody that's middle class is getting screwed up the @ss. So save the sob stories.

Part of what these people are protesting is admirable. The other part of it does associate them at least with the crusties that get the bus to Bellanboy every Thursday so they can carry out the "will of the people" Floating from one protest to another as an excuse no to work.

It's not really fair to paint everyone involved in this protest as those crusties because the crux of the issue is distribution of wealth which we should all be angry about.

zarquon

Bozacke wrote: »

First off, I don't post my salary on message boards and it is really inconsequential, since you don't know how hard I work or the personal situation of myself or my family. I also didn't see you post your salary. I can tell you, I live a very frugal life which I have to manage very carefully. Sadly, I have always lived a frugal life and never ran wild during the Celtic tiger, yet still be punished because of others that benefited during the boom. I never said that I had the answers to National fiance, but the system is broken and needs to be fixed.

I am merely trying to see how you qualify to offer suggestion on the national finance problem and i dissagree that it is very consequential. As i have said people that cannot manage personal finance properly are completely disqualified from trying to input on the national finance issues as they have no track record and are clearly poor descision makers. My salary is below 30K but i have never been in dept and manage my finances carefully and have managed to put plenty of savings away over the years. I simply cannot tolerate others earning far in excess of me that whinge and complain about their financial difficulties and how it's big corporations and goverments that are to blame when the individuals make the poor choices. Goverments don't force me to take car loans, credit card debt or mortgages. People always look for scapegoats.

As you still won't declare your qualification to offer advice or opinion on financial matters there is very little i can do in this case. I will simply say that in life the advice of successful people is usually more prudent than those of unsuccessful people. Of course this is a forum for all voices to be heard but not all voices are correct.

dilallio

dilallio

On a more serious note, this guy outlines the real root of the current issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCRnkamitVk

biko

AngeGal wrote: »

I have read the thread and still have no idea what the protesters are seeking to achieve except generalities like more equality, a noble aspiration but how exactly do the protesters believe this could be achieved?

I suppose for starters showing up and showing support.
Even though I might not agree with everything they do I must say I admire people showing such conviction.

Bozacke wrote: »

Your type make me sick!!

Less of this. On this forum everyone gets their say (that will discuss in a civil manner that is.)

Wompa1 wrote: »

It's not really fair to paint everyone involved in this protest as those crusties because the crux of the issue is distribution of wealth which we should all be angry about.

Hear hear. The left are usually the first to stand to fight injustice and the centre/right will always try to paint them as hippies to invalidate their arguments.
Everyone can to have a solution to this problem and often it can be solved in several ways. Just because someone proposes a different solution doesn't mean they're wrong.
To me the problem is simply corporate/banking execs greed and that it can be addressed in many ways. These people are trying what they think is the best approach because it seems the ruling class won't.

Wompa1

biko wrote: »

I suppose for starters showing up and showing support.
Even though I might not agree with everything they do I must say I admire people showing such conviction.


Less of this. On this forum everyone gets their say (that will discuss in a civil manner that is.)


Hear hear. The left are usually the first to stand to fight injustice and the centre/right will always try to paint them as hippies to invalidate their arguments.
Everyone can to have a solution to this problem and often it can be solved in several ways. Just because someone proposes a different solution doesn't mean they're wrong.
To me the problem is simply corporate/banking execs greed and that it can be addressed in many ways. These people are trying what they think is the best approach because it seems the ruling class won't.

I'd actually probably fall under as being more centre/right than left to be honest. I have friends that think the wealthy in the country should be paying 50% tax...I don't agree with that either. There has to be a happy middle ground that can be worked out. I'm middle class but I think wealth is a great incentive for people to strive to achieve. A lot of people dream of being millionaires..

At the same time, it's been made glaringly obvious that certain sectors in this country are out of control and corrupt. Politicians, Bankers, Universities, Sporting bodies etc. Social welfare needs a lot more restrictions too.

Well, I couldn't have you thinking I was left

Ficheall

higamos hogamos wrote: »

Those three? Really?

Let's not get silly here.

I'm not being silly. Each is an option I've given serious thought to.
What option would you like that is not available to you?

biko

Wompa1 wrote: »

Well, I couldn't have you thinking I was left

I'm am a "floater", very left on some issues, sometimes centre and sometimes right-wing. All depends on the issues I guess.

zootshooter

Here's a shot that I took of the Occupy Galway protest movement in Eyre Square. Fair play to all involved, I'm very supportive of people finally protesting against the reaming that we're recieving from bent politicians, the IMF, shady banks, parasitic corporations etc. All to allow the richest to keep getting richer, whilst the other 99% suffer. Well done to all involved, I sure hope that the movement keeps spreading. I find it hard to comprehend where such negativity directed towards the protestors stems from. To judge people simply because of their outward appearance, or due to the fact that they may have different goals in protesting is utterly ridiculous. The fact is that they are making a stand against greed and a lack of equality that is apparent throughout the world and has been brought into sharper focus by the great heist of tax payers money that was the bank bailout. Never in the history of the human race has so much been owned by so few, and people are to be admired rather than slated for standing up against such unfairness.