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Occupy Galway Group (mod note added)
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ben.schlomo wrote: »
look just because a chunk of country is suffering from accute stockholm syndrome/were busy/feel helpless it doest take from the "60/70" (it was more like 100+ to be fair) people that are willing to protest!!
Ok I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say it was a hundred......still piss poor turnout no matter what way you look at it.
I think it's fair to say this protest has shown that the urban camping group has no mandate from the overwhelming majority.
To clarify what i mean by majority, i'm talking about the 99.999999999999%.0 -
Hello world wrote: »
well excuse me for ranting while seeing what we're swallowing as regards politics in this country!
also i was reporting those insisting on quoting false news reports which have since been taken down altogether or edited to remove mentions of chairs being or attempted at being thrown.
i honestly wish you all the best in life and hope we at the occupy camp can prove you wrong sooner rather than later.
You cannot report people for talking about something that was in te news regardless if the newspaper got it wrong
Also stop being a little patronising (cu next Tuesday) to anyone who tries to have an adult disscussion with you
i would like a mod to make a judgement regarding your first point,
seeing as I was there and you refused to accept my true and honest account of what happened and threw it back in my face on a number of occasions (i will never believe you over the media type replies) that I was just some random internet poster yet at the same time you admitted a day or 2 later you were busy believing other people who were there and posting anonymously on here (all because they shared your agenda I believe, I may be wrong but you can't say what ya did and then blatantly contradict yourself!!)
I am going to throw your last paragraph right back at you HW.
I am not going to take the word of some random we who claims to have been there over the word of a newspaper I have had this discussion with you now leave it the newspapers were wrong they have admitted it0 -
Hello world wrote: »Hello world wrote: »No but I asked what the occupy movement do and I was given a recording from that protest and it was backed up by eire man
Ok..so you were told that OG took part in that protest and then went on to say that the low numbers showed lack of support for the camp. I still don't see how you made that connection. The protest was nothing to do with showing support for the camp. I suppose you could say that it shows that most people are in favour of the household tax, but I think we all know that isn't true.
No I asked what the occupy Galway people stand for because I thought they didn't even know what they stand for.[/]
get up the fcuking road!! do you know why you're being so apathetic and obedient??
We know why we are protesting and do be so grandiose HW0 -
OG really didn't do their credibility any favours sharing this on Facebook today.
I can't say I understand the implications of that, and suspect that it wouldn't really hold up. However, I have seen articles from a number of TDs and newspaper columnists saying that the household tax is unconstitutional and possibly illegal, especially when they are threatening to collect it directly from wages etc if you don't pay.0 -
Again, I don't really understand your question..I am saying that members of OG attended the protest as individuals who oppose the household tax. The protest was called by the ULA and the Campaign against the household tax. It was attended by householders who oppose the household tax. How many people attended it has nothing to do with who does or doesn't support OG.
The point is really kinda simple.
An o.g. supporter (you) publicized the event on here - without any disclaimer that o.g. have nothing to do with it.
Ergo o.g. supported it.
Bit late to be pulling back now.0 -
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ben.schlomo wrote: »
look just because a chunk of country is suffering from accute stockholm syndrome/were busy/feel helpless it doest take from the "60/70" (it was more like 100+ to be fair) people that are willing to protest!!
Ok I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say it was a hundred......still piss poor turnout no matter what way you look at it.
I think it's fair to say this protest has shown that the urban camping group has no mandate from the overwhelming majority.
To clarify what i mean by majority, i'm talking about the 99.999999999999%.
yes but that says more about the rest of the public than it says about the 100+ people who made it into the protest
again the protest wasn't organised by occupy!! theres a damn bloody echo building here!!0 -
Join Date:Posts: 10078
It doesn't really hold up at all, it's part of the Freeman ideology which is noted horse**** of the highest grade, lapped up by those who feel generally disaffected and spend too much time on the internet,I can't say I understand the implications of that, and suspect that it wouldn't really hold up. However, I have seen articles from a number of TDs and newspaper columnists saying that the household tax is unconstitutional and possibly illegal, especially when they are threatening to collect it directly from wages etc if you don't pay.
I can agree with you that there are certain aspects of the charge which may be challenged constitutionally. Whoever works the OG Facebook would be well advised to link to these articles rather than the conspiracy theories.0 -
Hello world wrote: »No I asked what the protestors are protesting against, as someone who was completely ignorant to what the occupy protestors stand for. The. I was given a link to the audio of some occupy Galway member talking about the household tax (this was then backed up by Eire man) so I assumed they are against the household tax. Now you are coming along and saying the occupy people have nothing to do with the tax. And now im saying how do you expect to have any support when ye can't even decide what you stand for?
For goodness sake, this is hard work! I am not saying that we are not against the tax..of course we are, along with half the country! I am saying, once again, that we did not organise the protest, the protest was not about OG, and attendance at the protest does not reflect, in any way, on support for the camp. Why is that so difficult for anyone to get?0 -
It doesn't really hold up at all, it's part of the Freeman ideology which is noted horse**** of the highest grade, lapped up by those who feel generally disaffected and spend too much time on the internet,
I can agree with you that there are certain aspects of the charge which may be challenged constitutionally. Whoever works the OG Facebook would be well advised to link to these articles rather than the conspiracy theories.
There are various admins on the facebook page, as I understand it, and they will post what they consider relevant. I suppose it is up to individuals to make up their own minds and post corrections if they consider any information to be incorrect.0 -
Hello world wrote: »No I asked what the protestors are protesting against, as someone who was completely ignorant to what the occupy protestors stand for. The. I was given a link to the audio of some occupy Galway member talking about the household tax (this was then backed up by Eire man) so I assumed they are against the household tax. Now you are coming along and saying the occupy people have nothing to do with the tax. And now im saying how do you expect to have any support when ye can't even decide what you stand for?
For goodness sake, this is hard work! I am not saying that we are not against the tax..of course we are, along with half the country! I am saying, once again, that we did not organise the protest, the protest was not about OG, and attendance at the protest does not reflect, in any way, on support for the camp. Why is that so difficult for anyone to get?
Ok but then when I asked what the occupy people stand for why was I given a speech from the household tax protest and nothing else? How am I mean to assume what else you do if when I ask that's all that I get back. All I'm saying is ye are not great at raising awareness of whatever your cause is (I still have no idea)0 -
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antoobrien wrote: »The point is really kinda simple.
An o.g. supporter (you) publicized the event on here - without any disclaimer that o.g. have nothing to do with it.
Ergo o.g. supported it.
Bit late to be pulling back now.
Did I publicize the event? I don't recall doing that, but maybe you are right. But, once again, at no point did I say we didn't support it, several individuals who are members of OG attended the protest as concerned members of the public who oppose the tax. I have also shared on my Facebook page an upcoming demonstration by road hauliers in Dublin..if that is badly attended would that also show lack of support for Occupy Galway..or if thousands attend will that show that we have huge support?. Please stop being so obtuse.0 -
Hello world wrote: »Hello world wrote: »
well excuse me for ranting while seeing what we're swallowing as regards politics in this country!
also i was reporting those insisting on quoting false news reports which have since been taken down altogether or edited to remove mentions of chairs being or attempted at being thrown.
i honestly wish you all the best in life and hope we at the occupy camp can prove you wrong sooner rather than later.
You cannot report people for talking about something that was in te news regardless if the newspaper got it wrong
Also stop being a little patronising (cu next Tuesday) to anyone who tries to have an adult disscussion with you
i would like a mod to make a judgement regarding your first point,
seeing as I was there and you refused to accept my true and honest account of what happened and threw it back in my face on a number of occasions (i will never believe you over the media type replies) that I was just some random internet poster yet at the same time you admitted a day or 2 later you were busy believing other people who were there and posting anonymously on here (all because they shared your agenda I believe, I may be wrong but you can't say what ya did and then blatantly contradict yourself!!)
I am going to throw your last paragraph right back at you HW.
I am not going to take the word of some random we who claims to have been there over the word of a newspaper I have had this discussion with you now leave it the newspapers were wrong they have admitted it
I will not drop it, were the papers wrong or was I right?!?
why wont you restate that you are so out for occupy galways blood you would say anything negative to just throw something at what you dont want to or indeed understand
The truth is uncomfortable for some people, it's how I understand you wanting me to just be quiet. I was not looking for an argument that eve, instead I thought if I explained what really happened that could maybe be the end of it but no you derailed the whole thread with your assumptions about the media.
how wrong i was0 -
Did I publicize the event? I don't recall doing that, but maybe you are right.
Let me refresh your memory.http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/48099/hard-pressed-householders-to-protest-against-charges-at-city-hall
There is a protest tomorrow at 3.30pm at Galway City Hall against the household tax. There are several groups taking part in this and we hope to see large numbers of people there. If you want a cuppa before or after the protest, feel free to pop along to the Occupy Galway Camp before 3pm.But, once again, at no point did I say we didn't support it, several individuals who are members of OG attended the protest as concerned members of the public who oppose the tax. I have also shared on my Facebook page an upcoming demonstration by road hauliers in Dublin..if that is badly attended would that also show lack of support for Occupy Galway..or if thousands attend will that show that we have huge support?. Please stop being so obtuse.
I'm not being obtuse, more sarcastic than anything. Oh yeah, it helps that I also have a memory, it's useful when dealing with people like the o.g. group.
Your publication of information about protests is tacit approval of those protests, therefore the perceived level of support you & your cohorts have from the general public are seen in that light. Low turnout of something in Galway will naturally have more effect on the perception of a local group than low turnout of something in Dublin.0 -
Hello world wrote: »Ok but then when I asked what the occupy people stand for why was I given a speech from the household tax protest and nothing else? How am I mean to assume what else you do if when I ask that's all that I get back. All I'm saying is ye are not great at raising awareness of whatever your cause is (I still have no idea)
I really don't believe that anyone can be unaware of what the Occupy movement worldwide stands for..or why there are growing protests of various kinds around the world. Surely nobody believes that all is well in the world these days? People are protesting about financial inequality, financial corruption, the raping of our natural resources, the exploitation of workers, taxpayers bearing the burden for financial institutions reckless gambling, austerity cuts affecting the people who can least afford it etc etc.0 -
antoobrien wrote: »Again, I don't really understand your question..I am saying that members of OG attended the protest as individuals who oppose the household tax. The protest was called by the ULA and the Campaign against the household tax. It was attended by householders who oppose the household tax. How many people attended it has nothing to do with who does or doesn't support OG.
The point is really kinda simple.
An o.g. supporter (you) publicized the event on here - without any disclaimer that o.g. have nothing to do with it.
Ergo o.g. supported it.
Bit late to be pulling back now.
everyone knows the occupations will be against this form of taxation
whats the crime here??0 -
It doesn't really hold up at all, it's part of the Freeman ideology which is noted horse**** of the highest grade, lapped up by those who feel generally disaffected and spend too much time on the internet,I can't say I understand the implications of that, and suspect that it wouldn't really hold up. However, I have seen articles from a number of TDs and newspaper columnists saying that the household tax is unconstitutional and possibly illegal, especially when they are threatening to collect it directly from wages etc if you don't pay.
I can agree with you that there are certain aspects of the charge which may be challenged constitutionally. Whoever works the OG Facebook would be well advised to link to these articles rather than the conspiracy theories.
wanna come on board and tighten our online presence up then robbo or you just goin to sit there looking at us?0 -
antoobrien wrote: »Let me refresh your memory.
Your publication of information about protests is tacit approval of those protests, therefore the perceived level of support you & your cohorts have from the general public are seen in that light. Low turnout of something in Galway will naturally have more effect on the perception of a local group than low turnout of something in Dublin.
yes, I approved of the protest. It was also widely advertised on the local radio stations and in the local papers as being organised by the ULA. I also say in that post that there are various groups taking part. I think you will find that the people on this board are the only people suggesting that this protest in any way reflected on OG.0 -
I really don't believe that anyone can be unaware of what the Occupy movement worldwide stands for..or why there are growing protests of various kinds around the world. Surely nobody believes that all is well in the world these days? People are protesting about financial inequality, financial corruption, the raping of our natural resources, the exploitation of workers, taxpayers bearing the burden for financial institutions reckless gambling, austerity cuts affecting the people who can least afford it etc etc.
And the Corrib Gasline for some reason, is that the raping of our natural resources? When OUR government sold us out? Why is the Shells fault? We voted them in...what else is on the agenda that people would be supporting by supporting the protests in Ireland?
The World Wide protest does not exist, in each country the groups have adapted to their own domestic issues and the protests are much much too broad to get the support of the masses.0 -
I will not drop it, were the papers wrong or was I right?!?
why wont you restate that you are so out for occupy galways blood you would say anything negative to just throw something at what you dont want to or indeed understand
The truth is uncomfortable for some people, it's how I understand you wanting me to just be quiet. I was not looking for an argument that eve, instead I thought if I explained what really happened that could maybe be the end of it but no you derailed the whole thread with your assumptions about the media.
how wrong i was
You were right and the papers were wrong.
You were trying to explain why happend that evening? Then why did you say what you were reporting anyone who believed the newspapers? Basically you wanted to shut up anyone who didn't share your views? You princess you
Anyways Biko said a few pages back thAt there is no more talking about chairs so I'm done on this topic0 -
And the Corrib Gasline for some reason, is that the raping of our natural resources? When OUR government sold us out? Why is the Shells fault? We voted them in...what else is on the agenda that people would be supporting by supporting the protests in Ireland?
The World Wide protest does not exist, in each country the groups have adapted to their own domestic issues and the protests are much much too broad to get the support of the masses.
I don't believe it is Shell's fault..it is the governments fault for a) selling us out and b) not renegotiating the terms of the deal and c) for ignoring the feelings of local people who do not want an experimental, potentially dangerous pipeline going through their community transporting raw gas at high pressure.
Yes, of course the movement has been adapted to the needs of the individual countries, but there is also an international aspect to the current financial problems. With regard to support, having spent a lot of time at the OG camp talking to people from all walks of life, I know that there is a lot of support for the occupy movement worldwide. The protests are broad because the issues are broad.0 -
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eire.man, regarding the Dublin and Cork movements occupying NAMA owned buildings, how come there's been no effort by the authorities to kick them out, seeing as they'd be squatting in private property?
Unless they're paying NAMA rent.....:rolleyes:
Any chance one of the O.G lads could answer this?0 -
Hello world wrote: »
I will not drop it, were the papers wrong or was I right?!?
why wont you restate that you are so out for occupy galways blood you would say anything negative to just throw something at what you dont want to or indeed understand
The truth is uncomfortable for some people, it's how I understand you wanting me to just be quiet. I was not looking for an argument that eve, instead I thought if I explained what really happened that could maybe be the end of it but no you derailed the whole thread with your assumptions about the media.
how wrong i was
You were right and the papers were wrong.
You were trying to explain why happend that evening? Then why did you say what you were reporting anyone who believed the newspapers? Basically you wanted to shut up anyone who didn't share your views? You princess you
Anyways Biko said a few pages back thAt there is no more talking about chairs so I'm done on this topic
well blow me over with a feather HW!! I only had to practically write your admission myself that I was correct.
see reporting posters that evening, its all down to the level of negative ignorance we face from internet warriors/untrue media reports, I was well within my rights to report people who were intent on spreading the untrue news item and stating that they'd continue to do so whether it was right or wrong, those doing so that eve were the only posts reported,
I never reported someone for not agreeing with me, even if you try to insist that I do!! sure the mods would just LOL0 -
Any chance one of the O.G lads could answer this?
I personally don't know the answer to this. We haven't looked into occupying a building yet so, as far as I know, we haven't researched the legalities of it. You might be better directing your question directly to Occupy Cork as they will have checked out the legal position I assume?
I am fairly sure that they aren't paying rent and I understand that the keys to the building were left in a box, wrapped in xmas paper, at the camp. A gift from Santa perhaps?
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And the Corrib Gasline for some reason, is that the raping of our natural resources? When OUR government sold us out? Why is the Shells fault? We voted them in...what else is on the agenda that people would be supporting by supporting the protests in Ireland?
The World Wide protest does not exist, in each country the groups have adapted to their own domestic issues and the protests are much much too broad to get the support of the masses.
I don't believe it is Shell's fault..it is the governments fault for a) selling us out and b) not renegotiating the terms of the deal and c) for ignoring the feelings of local people who do not want an experimental, potentially dangerous pipeline going through their community transporting raw gas at high pressure.
Yes, of course the movement has been adapted to the needs of the individual countries, but there is also an international aspect to the current financial problems. With regard to support, having spent a lot of time at the OG camp talking to people from all walks of life, I know that there is a lot of support for the occupy movement worldwide. The protests are broad because the issues are broad.
dont underestimate shells power and influence all the same!! they're one huge huge company. if they'd refined the oil off-shore or below ground there wouldnt be as much to protest against.
they care for nobody but their profits!! end of0 -
I don't believe it is Shell's fault..it is the governments fault for a) selling us out and b) not renegotiating the terms of the deal and c) for ignoring the feelings of local people who do not want an experimental, potentially dangerous pipeline going through their community transporting raw gas at high pressure.
Yes, of course the movement has been adapted to the needs of the individual countries, but there is also an international aspect to the current financial problems. With regard to support, having spent a lot of time at the OG camp talking to people from all walks of life, I know that there is a lot of support for the occupy movement worldwide. The protests are broad because the issues are broad.
Then why are the majority of the protests to date been targeted towards Shell? There's been a handful at government buildings but the majority have been aimed towards Shell. Remember the boycotts of the petrol stations? All the trespassing onto the work sites?
I though the original protest was about the distribution of wealth. It's since been spun off into all sorts of other issues. I genuinely was supportive of the protests until I read some of the agenda. When you get caught up in protesting about very broad subjects without even offering alternative it starts to just sound like you don't know what you want. If you want fairer distribution of wealth, what tax rates should be rolled out? If aren't happy with the Corrib Gasline, how do you propose the Government get out of it? Pay Billions in compensation and then Billions more to harness the resources for ourselves?0 -
everyone knows the occupations will be against this form of taxation
whats the crime here??
The crime here is the fact that the people from the o.g. camp refuse to give a straight answer to a lot of questions.
Besides (the socialists in ) o.g. should be for property taxes (which this is, no matter what it is actually called), given that it's a tenet of socialism.yes, I approved of the protest. It was also widely advertised on the local radio stations and in the local papers as being organised by the ULA. I also say in that post that there are various groups taking part. I think you will find that the people on this board are the only people suggesting that this protest in any way reflected on OG.
Really, I take it then so you weren't talking to my family (who don't post on here) over the weekend. They heard the occupy "call to arms" (as my brother put it) to attend this protest. They're openly laughing at the o.g. camp.
Opps.
Btw, all my family earn less than 40k, so we're part of the 99% that you're misrepresenting.0 -
eire.man, regarding the Dublin and Cork movements occupying NAMA owned buildings, how come there's been no effort by the authorities to kick them out, seeing as they'd be squatting in private property?
Unless they're paying NAMA rent.....:rolleyes:
Any chance one of the O.G lads could answer this?
I would if i knew everything that goes on in cork and dublin but i dont, we are not the all seeing eye but i will get back to you if i hear anything0 -
I have 3 questions. I'm not trying to antagonize the believers in this, but I would be curious to hear answers to all 3.
[LIST=3]
[*] What has this accomplished?
[*] What's the end game? When will you be satisfied enough to return home?
[*] What are your thoughts on the movement's irrelevance as focus has shifted elsewhere and the reality of people's innate desire "to get on with it" no matter the bitter pill they have to swallow?
[/LIST]0 -
Then why are the majority of the protests to date been targeted towards Shell? There's been a handful at government buildings but the majority have been aimed towards Shell. Remember the boycotts of the petrol stations? All the trespassing onto the work sites?
I though the original protest was about the distribution of wealth. It's since been spun off into all sorts of other issues. I genuinely was supportive of the protests until I read some of the agenda. When you get caught up in protesting about very broad subjects without even offering alternative it starts to just sound like you don't know what you want. If you want fairer distribution of wealth, what tax rates should be rolled out? If aren't happy with the Corrib Gasline, how do you propose the Government get out of it? Pay Billions in compensation and then Billions more to harness the resources for ourselves?
The opposition to the Corrib Gas project has been going on for 11 years. The Rossport Solidarity Camp has, along with locals, been organising protests and slowing down work on the site for all that time. That has nothing to do with the Occupy movement, although it is something that I, personally would support. With regards to the pipeline, the answer is simple - process the gas offshore as is usually done, don't transport the raw gas past schools, houses and through areas of outstanding natural beauty. The government can renegotiate the terms so that Ireland gets some revenue from the gas and oil that we have. This is possible, and has been done in other countries.0 -
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I don't believe it is Shell's fault..it is the governments fault for a) selling us out and b) not renegotiating the terms of the deal and c) for ignoring the feelings of local people who do not want an experimental, potentially dangerous pipeline going through their community transporting raw gas at high pressure.
Yes, of course the movement has been adapted to the needs of the individual countries, but there is also an international aspect to the current financial problems. With regard to support, having spent a lot of time at the OG camp talking to people from all walks of life, I know that there is a lot of support for the occupy movement worldwide. The protests are broad because the issues are broad.
Then why are the majority of the protests to date been targeted towards Shell? There's been a handful at government buildings but the majority have been aimed towards Shell. Remember the boycotts of the petrol stations? All the trespassing onto the work sites?
I though the original protest was about the distribution of wealth. It's since been spun off into all sorts of other issues. I genuinely was supportive of the protests until I read some of the agenda. When you get caught up in protesting about very broad subjects without even offering alternative it starts to just sound like you don't know what you want. If you want fairer distribution of wealth, what tax rates should be rolled out? If aren't happy with the Corrib Gasline, how do you propose the Government get out of it? Pay Billions in compensation and then Billions more to harness the resources for ourselves?
shell are not dumb, they could have done things differently and instead this is the route they went down, I've seen what passes for health and safety in Shell Pernis and it sucks ass bigtime!!
its a ticking time-bomb with dodgy welds all over their piping systems (due to hiring "professionals"/more like little worker ants from agencies who rarely check cvs) and even wrong paints (not heat resistant!!) used on extreemly hit pipes!!
some pipes have all but rusted away with effluent pi$$ing into puddles and seeping into the ground, highest levels of carbon manoxide on the planet in its rotterdam base!!
You'd have to see it to believe it!!0
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