Occupy Galway Group (mod note added)

Wompa1

eire.man wrote: »

shell are not dumb, they could have done things differently and instead this is the route they went down, I've seen what passes for health and safety in Shell Pernis and it sucks ass bigtime!!

its a ticking time-bomb with dodgy welds all over their piping systems (due to hiring "professionals"/more like little worker ants from agencies who rarely check cvs) and even wrong paints (not heat resistant!!) used on extreemly hit pipes!!

some pipes have all but rusted away with effluent pi$$ing into puddles and seeping into the ground, highest levels of carbon manoxide on the planet in its rotterdam base!!

You'd have to see it to believe it!!

And what about the pipeline in Mayo? Are there welds all over the piping? I have heard first hand from an engineer who worked on site there for a year that it was the most professional and compliant site he ever worked on. Every precaution and safety measure that can be taken has.

Wompa1

hippygran wrote: »

The opposition to the Corrib Gas project has been going on for 11 years. The Rossport Solidarity Camp has, along with locals, been organising protests and slowing down work on the site for all that time. That has nothing to do with the Occupy movement, although it is something that I, personally would support. With regards to the pipeline, the answer is simple - process the gas offshore as is usually done, don't transport the raw gas past schools, houses and through areas of outstanding natural beauty. The government can renegotiate the terms so that Ireland gets some revenue from the gas and oil that we have. This is possible, and has been done in other countries.

All well and good but the government already agreed to this. Also with the group that is opposing, I would say that even if it was off shore the protests would still be happening.

hippygran

Wompa1 wrote: »

All well and good but the government already agreed to this. Also with the group that is opposing, I would say that even if it was off shore the protests would still be happening.

I really don't think you can comment on this issue unless you have been there and spoken to the local community. They are campaigning to have the gas processed at sea...hence the title of the campaign 'shell2sea'. These are people who have lived in the area for generations, who are trying to protect their local community. They are not all young 'hippies', they are farmers and local people who have researched this subject for years. They were happy to have the project there initially until they discovered that the gas would be processed onshore and transported through their community. So no, the protest probably wouldn't still be happening if the gas was to be processed offshore.

As to 'the government agreed to this', that makes no difference. It was signed off by a minister that was later jailed for corruption, and the terms can be renegotiated by any subsequent government as has happened in countries such as Venezuela. I am not an expert on this subject but this is my understanding of the situation.

hippygran

Wompa1 wrote: »

And what about the pipeline in Mayo? Are there welds all over the piping? I have heard first hand from an engineer who worked on site there for a year that it was the most professional and compliant site he ever worked on. Every precaution and safety measure that can be taken has.

Presumably every precaution and safety measure was taken by BP too..but the Gulf of Mexico oil leak is still leaking!

prech101

Wompa1 - Protests are broad because issues are board. Please don’t use “Whats the details in your plan” so wait OWS are supposed to come with not only highlighting corruption/wealth gaps etc but they have to come with an adequate solution in your mind and everybody else to get your support? If they did it would simple create too much confusion and one of the great strengths of OWS is it’s a “Leaderless movement” so media cannot attack or highlight one thing that then distracts from the very argument OWS are attempting to make.
How about you look at the topics highlighted, Gap between rich and poor, natural recourses being plundered by private corps/ IMF. Transfer of public money into private ownership to name but a few, so how do we fix them all........................?????
Well how about we highlight then first, gets some open discussion and see what happens. OWS is about once again involving the people in how Govt runs OUR country.
Check out this FB page, in particular the doc about Hugo Chavez and what happened when he tried a extremist line of thought, he tried too (he did) distribute a nations natural resource for the good of all the people in that nation. I found this very heartening, the people copped on, the people said “No” People power, most of forgotten how powerful this is.

Also see some stuff on the Pipeline, looks like an interesting film on the way!
http://www.facebook.com/pages/OccupyDublin-OccupyDameStreet/255331084502132

eire.man

Wompa1 wrote: »

eire.man wrote: »

shell are not dumb, they could have done things differently and instead this is the route they went down, I've seen what passes for health and safety in Shell Pernis and it sucks ass bigtime!!

its a ticking time-bomb with dodgy welds all over their piping systems (due to hiring "professionals"/more like little worker ants from agencies who rarely check cvs) and even wrong paints (not heat resistant!!) used on extreemly hit pipes!!

some pipes have all but rusted away with effluent pi$$ing into puddles and seeping into the ground, highest levels of carbon manoxide on the planet in its rotterdam base!!

You'd have to see it to believe it!!

And what about the pipeline in Mayo? Are there welds all over the piping? I have heard first hand from an engineer who worked on site there for a year that it was the most professional and compliant site he ever worked on. Every precaution and safety measure that can be taken has.

im sure they said the same thing during the Hds-6 project and previous projects in rotterdam, if you think they're any different here in the olde sod then haha

see the fact that agencies are brought in to do the work and they in turn give out short term contracts it removes the liability from shell if anything ever goes wrong, it's an industry that's been covering it's ass for a long time

I seen some absolutely crazy **** on site in rotterdam, lads smoking throughout the site even though the place could go pop at anytime, i heard of one of shells guys nearly switching on a pressure tester that would have pumped about 4 times the pressure the pipe could take and would have killed loads of us instantly if the area went up,

Red_Wake

hippygran wrote: »

I personally don't know the answer to this. We haven't looked into occupying a building yet so, as far as I know, we haven't researched the legalities of it. You might be better directing your question directly to Occupy Cork as they will have checked out the legal position I assume?
I am fairly sure that they aren't paying rent and I understand that the keys to the building were left in a box, wrapped in xmas paper, at the camp. A gift from Santa perhaps?

I'll have to enquire elsewhere so.

How typical of the occupy movement though, directing someone somewhere else for an answer to their question.

prech101

Red_Wake wrote: »

I'll have to enquire elsewhere so.

How typical of the occupy movement though, directing someone somewhere else for an answer to their question.

Or tired of telling people stuff they are too lazy to know.

Research my friend, then perhaps you won't have to ask the same question in a year!!

eire.man

Red_Wake wrote: »

hippygran wrote: »

I personally don't know the answer to this. We haven't looked into occupying a building yet so, as far as I know, we haven't researched the legalities of it. You might be better directing your question directly to Occupy Cork as they will have checked out the legal position I assume?
I am fairly sure that they aren't paying rent and I understand that the keys to the building were left in a box, wrapped in xmas paper, at the camp. A gift from Santa perhaps?

I'll have to enquire elsewhere so.

How typical of the occupy movement though, directing someone somewhere else for an answer to their question.

what the fcuk are you on about?!? Cork and Dublin are over 100km away, how the fcuk are we supposed to know what exactly they're doing??

antoobrien

hippygran wrote: »

The government can renegotiate the terms so that Ireland gets some revenue from the gas and oil that we have.

I'm curious as to the terms that have been agreed.

Are we getting nothing from this field?

Wompa1

I formed my opinion over time. I had a lecturer in Castlebar who was involved with the Rossport 5. I also had a friend who worked on site for a year up in Mayo. With my exposure to both I've made up my own mind on who to believe.

Lecturer was a f'in crackpot. Gave us an assignment and used it as a platform for him to preech to us about oil and renewable energies.

From what my friend has told me the majority of protestors involved up there show up on a bus every week for a few days and leave again. Mostly English, some Canadians and a few Irish. He has no reason to lie to me, I trust him.

I also watched the film The Pipe and all the Youtube videos. All the people protesting there seem to be doing is causing people who work on site to have their weekends delayed.

I can't find it now but there was a good thread in the Mayo section from the locals talking about it. If anyone can find it post the link

Red_Wake

eire.man wrote: »

what the fcuk are you on about?!? Cork and Dublin are over 100km away, how the fcuk are we supposed to know what exactly they're doing??

So there's so little contact between the Irish occupy groups that ye don't know each others plans?:eek:

prech101 wrote: »

Or tired of telling people stuff they are too lazy to know.

Research my friend, then perhaps you won't have to ask the same question in a year!!

You claim to represent me, but refuse to explain your views and plans when questioned?

hippygran

Wompa1 wrote: »

I formed my opinion over time. I had a lecturer in Castlebar who was involved with the Rossport 5. I also had a friend who worked on site for a year up in Mayo. With my exposure to both I've made up my own mind on who to believe.

Lecturer was a f'in crackpot. Gave us an assignment and used it as a platform for him to preech to us about oil and renewable energies.

From what my friend has told me the majority of protestors involved up there show up on a bus every week for a few days and leave again. Mostly English, some Canadians and a few Irish. He has no reason to lie to me, I trust him.

I also watched the film The Pipe and all the Youtube videos. All the people protesting there seem to be doing is causing people who work on site to have their weekends delayed.

I can't find it now but there was a good thread in the Mayo section from the locals talking about it. If anyone can find it post the link

There are a core of protesters that live at the camp, and others come and go, to my understanding. They are fully supported by a lot of locals who take part in direct actions. This article was out today and goes some way, in my opinion, to show why locals continue to oppose this project.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0116/1224310309778.html

hippygran

Red_Wake wrote: »

So there's so little contact between the Irish occupy groups that ye don't know each others plans?:eek:



You claim to represent me, but refuse to explain your views and plans when questioned?

I certainly didn't say that I don't know their plans..anybody can know their plans by reading the minutes of their meetings which are usually posted on Facebook. I don't know how come they are able to stay in the buildings, which was the original question.

hippygran

antoobrien wrote: »

I'm curious as to the terms that have been agreed.

Are we getting nothing from this field?

very little, to my understanding and not for several years at that. I don't know all the details but there will be more information on the Shell2sea website.

Red_Wake

hippygran wrote: »

I certainly didn't say that I don't know their plans..anybody can know their plans by reading the minutes of their meetings which are usually posted on Facebook. I don't know how come they are able to stay in the buildings, which was the original question.

But you don't know their plans, do you?

eire.man

Red_Wake wrote: »

eire.man wrote: »

what the fcuk are you on about?!? Cork and Dublin are over 100km away, how the fcuk are we supposed to know what exactly they're doing??

So there's so little contact between the Irish occupy groups that ye don't know each others plans?:eek:

prech101 wrote: »

Or tired of telling people stuff they are too lazy to know.

Research my friend, then perhaps you won't have to ask the same question in a year!!

You claim to represent me, but refuse to explain your views and plans when questioned?

there is contact but we dont know every little detail about each others movements, next you'll be asking me what size sh1tes they all had in the camps

do you know your neighbours rental arrangements and if not well you're living and sleeping a few feet away from these people and dont know what they're up to, wtf?!?

antoobrien

hippygran wrote: »

very little, to my understanding and not for several years at that. I don't know all the details but there will be more information on the Shell2sea website.

So the following is very little:

The new licensing terms include a profit resource rent tax. This new tax will be in addition to the 25% corporate tax rate currently employed. It will operate on a graded basis of profitability as follows:

an additional 15% tax in respect of fields where the profit ratio* exceeds 4.5
an additional 10% where the profit ratio is between 3.0 and 4.5
an additional 5% where the profit ratio is between 1.5 and 3.0
no change where the profit ratio is less than 1.5

On our most profitable fields, therefore, the return to the State will increase from 25% to 40%.

hippygran

antoobrien wrote: »

So the following is very little:

'All changes will apply to exploration licences awarded after 1 January 2007, effective immediately'

These wouldn't, therefore, apply to the Corrib Gas Project as that was started long before that.

hippygran

Red_Wake wrote: »

But you don't know their plans, do you?

Why should I know their plans? If I want to, I can read their minutes, talk to their members or visit their camp. I don't really get your point.

antoobrien

hippygran wrote: »

'All changes will apply to exploration licences awarded after 1 January 2007, effective immediately'

These wouldn't, therefore, apply to the Corrib Gas Project as that was started long before that.

But then:

The deepwater exploration licence No. 2/93 covering four blocks in the Slyne Trough was granted on 1 January 1993 for a period of 11 years

So the original terms have expired (and did so in 2004), so why wouldn't they apply to Corrib?


Can you actually point me to the terms you claim are active are will you just waffle on, making it clear(er) that you don't know what you're talking about?

prech101

Red_Wake wrote: »

So there's so little contact between the Irish occupy groups that ye don't know each others plans?:eek:

Agreed, more is needed. The groups do meet up though!


You claim to represent me, but refuse to explain your views and plans when questioned?

firstly i don't represent you, I'm just somebody who has seen first hand what greedy corps do and secondly OWS has rekindled a hope a small flame of justice, if you like that people will stand back up.
The best way to represented is to voice your own 2cents and get involved in local communities - local Govt.

You were not asking for my views/plans, you are asking about the legality of occupy in regards to taking over a building, I don't know, I'm not in that building, if i was I would then know, maybe send occupy Dublin a question and "Ask Them"


I do know plans are in progress to occupy homes owned by NAMA, and protests and sit ins in homes that eviction are taking place,, all good in my view.

eire.man

regarding shell (2) see Michael D's views on the project

http://royaldutchshellplc.com/2011/11/10/shell-to-sea-supporter-becomes-president-of-ireland/

eire.man

and now look at the Irish "government"'s way late attempt at taking shell to account for their lack of regard to safety!!

http://royaldutchshellplc.com/2012/01/09/corrib-gas-project-warning-to-shell-from-irish-government/

biko

newkie wrote: »

[*] What's the end game? When will you be satisfied enough to return home?

I'd like to know this too. Maybe it's been said earlier but if it could be stated again please.

eire.man

biko wrote: »

newkie wrote: »

[*] What's the end game? When will you be satisfied enough to return home?

I'd like to know this too. Maybe it's been said earlier but if it could be stated again please.

fair point alright biko but its one that will be asked over and over again all the while we could be all joining forces and moving to the next phase which would see our government starting to fight for us all and not the select few.

when blatent and protectionism style corruption for a few ends and instead the system looks after every single person equally!!

I envisage the occupy camps to be there as a base for revolutions to begin, if it wasn't there then someone would have to start some place for people to gather to discuss a plan of action. Just because it hasnt kicked off here yet doesnt mean we have failed or not know what we're doing.

If anything I reckon we'll be shown to have been a few months ahead of the rest. Time will tell and until then we're staying put.

d-gal

eire.man wrote:

what the fcuk are you on about?!? Cork and Dublin are over 100km away, how the fcuk are we supposed to know what exactly they're doing??

Will you please stop cursing and being so abusive to other people, it makes you look like a 5 year old child who can't handle a debate respectfully.

If 'occupy' want to change national situations then you should know what Dublin and Cork are up too.
It simply proves how disbanded and disorganized the group is and how it simply is a waste of time. The OG group has also proved that the public do not agree with you as they/we have shown so little support.

beardybrewer

eire.man wrote: »

when blatent and protectionism style corruption for a few ends and instead the system looks after every single person equally!!

Can I have some of what your smoking? So... you're never returning home so. It seems you're waiting for an Arab Spring in Ireland... an Irish Spring. No, wait... that's a soap.

What about the other questions? In you minds, what has been accomplished so far?

And lastly, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this:

What are your thoughts on the movement's irrelevance as focus has shifted elsewhere and the reality of people's innate desire "to get on with it" no matter the bitter pill they have to swallow?

eire.man

d-gal wrote: »

eire.man wrote:

what the fcuk are you on about?!? Cork and Dublin are over 100km away, how the fcuk are we supposed to know what exactly they're doing??

Will you please stop cursing and being so abusive to other people, it makes you look like a 5 year old child who can't handle a debate respectfully.

If 'occupy' want to change national situations then you should know what Dublin and Cork are up too.
It simply proves how disbanded and disorganized the group is and how it simply is a waste of time. The OG group has also proved that the public do not agree with you as they/we have shown so little support.

the level of public support for what we're doing is huge!! all thats wrong is the support we have seen hasn't transformed from verbal/food/supplies support to hands on deck.

it seems to me some are delighted to sit back laughing at a few who have stuck out harsh weather to start a movement and then try to say that with a small few we should be doing a lot more around town, do what we have to do week in week out to just keep going, and now we have to keep an eye on every detail about other cities individual happenings.

There is a lot of communication between the camps, more regular meetings, organising behind the scenes but all the camps are stretched a little at times,

sorry for the inconvenience, we're just trying to save the world...

eire.man

newkie wrote: »

eire.man wrote: »

when blatent and protectionism style corruption for a few ends and instead the system looks after every single person equally!!

Can I have some of what your smoking? So... you're never returning home so. It seems you're waiting for an Arab Spring in Ireland... an Irish Spring. No, wait... that's a soap.

What about the other questions? In you minds, what has been accomplished so far?

And lastly, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this:

What are your thoughts on the movement's irrelevance as focus has shifted elsewhere and the reality of people's innate desire "to get on with it" no matter the bitter pill they have to swallow?

sounds like you could do with smoking something, drink much?

i myself just "got on with it" for long enough!!

I know from talking to hundreds/thousands of people the last few years that more and more are reaching rock bottom with regard their level of tolerance of the system stacked against them.

deny it all you want.

a whole lot of stockholm syndrome going round